Author Topic: Barani pro passive shield  (Read 40058 times)

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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #125 on: August 27, 2018, 07:45:29 PM »
Looks good today considering sub 2 mph average speed. Not sure if changes made any difference but looks good.
Fars was .5 cooler on high temperature but with <2 mph wind the Pro is working well.

I watched carefully today and the pro just responds quicker IMO and why spikes may be more prevalent. The 7714 is as slow as a tortoise at responding to any changes sometimes a 5 minute delay or no response at all. I pointed out a few with red dots you can see the larger spikes and deeper dips.
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #126 on: August 27, 2018, 08:18:16 PM »
I watched carefully today and the pro just responds quicker IMO and why spikes may be more prevalent.
Makes sense. As I see it, the Pro is responding more so like a FARS than the 7714 simply due to it's seemingly better design in lighter wind conditions.

Offline CW7491

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #127 on: August 27, 2018, 08:24:59 PM »
Looks good today considering sub 2 mph average speed. Not sure if changes made any difference but looks good.
Fars was .5 cooler on high temperature but with <2 mph wind the Pro is working well.

I watched carefully today and the pro just responds quicker IMO and why spikes may be more prevalent. The 7714 is as slow as a tortoise at responding to any changes sometimes a 5 minute delay or no response at all. I pointed out a few with red dots you can see the larger spikes and deeper dips.

Also keep in mind that there is shield lag and sensor lag. The 75 responds much, much faster than the Davis mounted 31.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #128 on: August 27, 2018, 08:42:39 PM »
Looks good today considering sub 2 mph average speed. Not sure if changes made any difference but looks good.
Fars was .5 cooler on high temperature but with <2 mph wind the Pro is working well.

I watched carefully today and the pro just responds quicker IMO and why spikes may be more prevalent. The 7714 is as slow as a tortoise at responding to any changes sometimes a 5 minute delay or no response at all. I pointed out a few with red dots you can see the larger spikes and deeper dips.

Also keep in mind that there is shield lag and sensor lag. The 75 responds much, much faster than the Davis mounted 31.

Ah! maybe that's what I'm seeing. If I remember someone said it's the only one designed as meteorological sensor. I know there is a new version coming out but with the I2C which won't work. So I guess we need to stock up...
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #129 on: August 27, 2018, 09:07:51 PM »
Looks good today considering sub 2 mph average speed. Not sure if changes made any difference but looks good.
Fars was .5 cooler on high temperature but with <2 mph wind the Pro is working well.

I watched carefully today and the pro just responds quicker IMO and why spikes may be more prevalent. The 7714 is as slow as a tortoise at responding to any changes sometimes a 5 minute delay or no response at all. I pointed out a few with red dots you can see the larger spikes and deeper dips.
The 75 responds much, much faster than the Davis mounted 31.
Why, and how much is "much much"?

Offline hwcorder

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #130 on: August 27, 2018, 09:36:08 PM »
Looks good today considering sub 2 mph average speed. Not sure if changes made any difference but looks good.
Fars was .5 cooler on high temperature but with <2 mph wind the Pro is working well.

I watched carefully today and the pro just responds quicker IMO and why spikes may be more prevalent. The 7714 is as slow as a tortoise at responding to any changes sometimes a 5 minute delay or no response at all. I pointed out a few with red dots you can see the larger spikes and deeper dips.
The 75 responds much, much faster than the Davis mounted 31.
Why, and how much is "much much"?

 Can't speak for the much much part but the why would simply be because the 75 has less thermal mass.  While the actual size of the 31 is small its mounted on a much larger pcb board surrounded by rubber potting.  The 75 is mounted on a pcb hardly larger than the chip itself isolated somewhat by a very think neck.  This means it will equalize with ambient air more quickly.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #131 on: August 27, 2018, 10:14:49 PM »
Looks good today considering sub 2 mph average speed. Not sure if changes made any difference but looks good.
Fars was .5 cooler on high temperature but with <2 mph wind the Pro is working well.

I watched carefully today and the pro just responds quicker IMO and why spikes may be more prevalent. The 7714 is as slow as a tortoise at responding to any changes sometimes a 5 minute delay or no response at all. I pointed out a few with red dots you can see the larger spikes and deeper dips.
The 75 responds much, much faster than the Davis mounted 31.
Why, and how much is "much much"?
simply be because the 75 has less thermal mass. 
Thank you.

Offline dendrite

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #132 on: August 27, 2018, 10:15:59 PM »
Here's a couple of graphs of my 1-min max and min temp obs. This is with a 40 CFM FARS and no filter for either sensor. The first one is the Davis SHT31 and the 2nd is the home brew SHT75 (different days).

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These 75s perform like a Vaisala probe.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #133 on: August 27, 2018, 10:28:44 PM »
If I read this right, the 75 has much wilder swings than the 31. So, with the 75 it could literally display 75F one second then 70 the next? If so, not what I'd want, it took me long enough just to get use to the 31's swings.
No wonder why ASOS's use an averaging algorithm.

Offline dendrite

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #134 on: August 27, 2018, 10:35:26 PM »
If I read this right, the 75 has much wilder swings than the 31. So, with the 75 it could literally display 75F one second then 70 the next? If so, not what I'd want, it took me long enough just to get use to the 31's swings.
No wonder why ASOS's use an averaging algorithm.
That's a little extreme. my biggest 1 min swings are generally 2-3F and usually during the day with a lot of mixing. I decouple easily at night, but occasionally we'll get a puff of wind to mix down some slightly warmer air aloft. That's what those nighttime spikes are.

I am also heavily forested to the west of my property. So there's a bit of a battleground in the early evening between that and the warmer, more mixed air over my field. You can actually feel the temp change on your skin sometimes depending on the direction of the wind. Eventually the field decouples fully and we slip into a more stable, cooler airmas at the surface.

Randy's response is probably somewhat cut back with the filter and the passive shield. I'd be interested to see how his 75 performs in the suped up FARS.

Edit...just wanted to add that I don't think most of you would see the swings on your 75s that I see. From what I've seen of the siting around all of your stations (Valentine/Tucson/Victoria), your geography is fairly consistent for many square miles around you. My clearing surrounded by tall pine forest acts like a seabreeze when the wind and mixing aren't strong enough. I'm on the north side of a hill too, so we struggle to lose surface moisture so the evapotranspiration keeps the dewpoints a little higher and the temp a bit lower (again, when mixing is weak). My dewpoints tend to fall more in line with ASOS during the cold season.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 07:41:08 AM by dendrite »

Offline hwcorder

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #135 on: August 28, 2018, 12:59:26 AM »
Home from work. Here is what is now yesterday's graph. Looks like FARS ran a little cooler overall again today. 
Highs / Lows

FARS 92.1 / 69.4
PRO  92.9 / 69.3

 

Offline jerryg

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #136 on: August 28, 2018, 10:54:52 AM »
An update on the Barani standard shield, i got an email from Jan and he said that painting the bottom of the plates black offers some improvement on the performance of the standard shield. I emailed Randy and told him about this so i could get him all excited and he would try it and i could wait to see how it worked out before trying it myself  :lol:. That way he could find out and tell us how hard or easy it is. I really think this is a good plan  =D&gt;.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #137 on: August 28, 2018, 05:12:38 PM »
An update on the Barani standard shield, i got an email from Jan and he said that painting the bottom of the plates black offers some improvement on the performance of the standard shield. I emailed Randy and told him about this so i could get him all excited and he would try it and i could wait to see how it worked out before trying it myself  :lol:. That way he could find out and tell us how hard or easy it is. I really think this is a good plan  =D&gt;.

What Jerry didn't know, I already had updated shield with black so when I heard paint I did the whole inside flat camo brown.   :lol:
Oh well maybe it will help.
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Offline WxLover16

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #138 on: August 28, 2018, 06:14:33 PM »
Looks good today considering sub 2 mph average speed. Not sure if changes made any difference but looks good.
Fars was .5 cooler on high temperature but with <2 mph wind the Pro is working well.

I watched carefully today and the pro just responds quicker IMO and why spikes may be more prevalent. The 7714 is as slow as a tortoise at responding to any changes sometimes a 5 minute delay or no response at all. I pointed out a few with red dots you can see the larger spikes and deeper dips.
The 75 responds much, much faster than the Davis mounted 31.
Why, and how much is "much much"?

 Can't speak for the much much part but the why would simply be because the 75 has less thermal mass.  While the actual size of the 31 is small its mounted on a much larger pcb board surrounded by rubber potting.  The 75 is mounted on a pcb hardly larger than the chip itself isolated somewhat by a very think neck.  This means it will equalize with ambient air more quickly.

So why can't we just leave the 31 off the pcb and let it "dangle" inside the sensor chamber and maybe we get better response? Just trying to think outside the box here.
Davis Wireless VP2 SHT31 24hr 24CFM FARS

Offline CW2274

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #139 on: August 28, 2018, 06:30:13 PM »
Probably could, but I'd at least secure it some how to keep it from banging the chamber's wall constantly. Besides, with a proper fan, the effect should be somewhat mitigated.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #140 on: August 28, 2018, 07:40:41 PM »
Pro +.7 sun broke out end of day.
Was still -3° below airport even using the +.7 on pro. Would of been a -4° cooler day using the FARS shield.
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Randy

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #141 on: August 29, 2018, 08:10:28 PM »
With 5 mph wind the Pro wins slightly. What Jerry see's daily.
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Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #142 on: August 31, 2018, 07:22:11 PM »
Another good day for Pro. It's running slightly better than the others even with light winds. I removed the top plates this afternoon and didn't see any changes so leaving off. I did make a change with the standard shield yesterday with interior painted krylon fusion ultra flat camo brown.

Shield is running with the others now. Remember the 7714 is also black on the interior so the only stock shields are the Pro and Davis FARS.
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 12:44:56 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline jerryg

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #143 on: September 04, 2018, 10:18:01 AM »
Update, since painting the standard shield interior black the pro and standard have been running pretty much the same on temperature. Any difference is usually .5 or less and doesn't last for that long of a time. It looks like the lower cost standard shield is a good shield when painted black inside. Just a little work and you have a low cost winner. Taking the shield a part  to paint it is scary with it being helix design it goes together in pieces that spiral around from top to bottom, i did it so it can be done just pay attention to how it comes apart.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #144 on: September 04, 2018, 10:46:11 AM »
Update, since painting the standard shield interior black the pro and standard have been running pretty much the same on temperature. Any difference is usually .5 or less and doesn't last for that long of a time. It looks like the lower cost standard shield is a good shield when painted black inside. Just a little work and you have a low cost winner. Taking the shield a part  to paint it is scary with it being helix design it goes together in pieces that spiral around from top to bottom, i did it so it can be done just pay attention to how it comes apart.

Jan Barani in email suggest using a flat black latex with low VOC. He said reason they don't do the Pro everywhere and only do the inner black shield is desert and arctic locations will chip the paint off with fine granules.

The only low VOC paints I can find are interior house paints, none of the spray paints for plastic I can find qualify.
Randy

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #145 on: September 04, 2018, 01:32:00 PM »
Update, since painting the standard shield interior black the pro and standard have been running pretty much the same on temperature. Any difference is usually .5 or less and doesn't last for that long of a time. It looks like the lower cost standard shield is a good shield when painted black inside. Just a little work and you have a low cost winner. Taking the shield a part  to paint it is scary with it being helix design it goes together in pieces that spiral around from top to bottom, i did it so it can be done just pay attention to how it comes apart.

Jan Barani in email suggest using a flat black latex with low VOC. He said reason they don't do the Pro everywhere and only do the inner black shield is desert and arctic locations will chip the paint off with fine granules.

The only low VOC paints I can find are interior house paints, none of the spray paints for plastic I can find qualify.

Ask Mr Jan Barani what 'brand' paint HE uses and if it (or equivalent) is available in USA.
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Offline jerryg

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #146 on: September 04, 2018, 02:47:07 PM »
I found a flat black spray paint without voc's at Lowes but it is not for plastic and their primer is recommended. I would think the primer will be covered by the black so should hold down any voc's.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #147 on: September 04, 2018, 02:59:32 PM »
I found a flat black spray paint without voc's at Lowes but it is not for plastic and their primer is recommended. I would think the primer will be covered by the black so should hold down any voc's.

Do you remember the brand name?  I've seen no voc primer advertised in spray somewhere.
Randy

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #148 on: September 04, 2018, 03:58:44 PM »
Looks like this will work on plastic and is low voc.
Good luck finding in flat black. I did find gloss black. Krylon Eco Guard Latex Spray Paint
Randy

Offline jerryg

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Re: Barani pro passive shield
« Reply #149 on: September 05, 2018, 12:51:42 PM »