Topic: New station advice for confused newb

[ebrewer]

Hello, I have been researching for a couple months and reading this forum a lot, but since I have never used any of this type of equipment, I feel apprehensive to buy anything.  Hoping you can set me on the right path.  My techie/DIY capabilities are high. Here is what I am looking for:

1. Indoor temp/humidity
2. Outdoor temp/humidity
3. Chicken Coop temp/humidity
4. Garage temp/humidity
5. Attic temp/humidity
6. Possibly Garden 1 and Garden 2 soil moisture
7. Date and Time
8. Forecast from a reputable source, not from personal data
9. Console display showing all of those data points with specific name (not channel 1, 2, etc...) on one screen with no scrolling or button pushes.  Console can be proprietary, ipad, or kindle fire 8.
10. Access via web, iphone, and ipad
11. IFTTT
12. Historical data available, but not a priority
13. Budget $200 not including ipad/kindle console. 

Is this possible? 
Thanks! Eric

[galfert]

Yes, but not with that budget.

You could go with the Ambient WS-2000 and then add sensors. Or you could go with Ecowitt GW1000 or HP2551 and then add sensors. You need to at least double the budget to get all those sensors.

As for IFTTT that is not available with Ecowitt...but it is possible to add it with a Meteobridge and the Ambientweather.net license. You'll have more console and sensor options with Ecowitt.

You can add an Ecowitt GW1000 to the Ambient WS-2000 for software expandability.

Forecasting is going to come from various online services where you can see your data along with the forecast. Weather Underground and PWSweather are some options of where to upload the your weather data that is compatible with the stations I mentioned. But if you run other software or set up your own website then you can also pull from more forecasting sources.

These that I recommended are popular by users of this forum. But there are other options....but they'll cost even more....like Davis Instruments.

[ebrewer]

Thanks Galfert!

I don't need the wind or rain data so I would rather not spend the extra money on the 2000 or 2551. 

Instead of getting the meteobridge and ambientweather.net license, could I get the "Ambient Weather WEATHERBRIDGE Universal WIFI IP Ethernet Server for Weather Stations?"  Same thing? 

Can you tell me what you mean by software expandability? 

Seems like maybe just the GW1000 plus sensors might work for me.

As far as forecast goes, on the typical console sales pictures I see online, there is a small graphic of something like a cloud or sun.  Are you saying that that comes from online services?  I was thinking it just looked like something the console predicted from the sensors/pressure changes. 

Eric

[galfert]

Thanks Galfert!

I don't need the wind or rain data so I would rather not spend the extra money on the 2000 or 2551.

Up to you if you do or don't want a complete system. A complete system is temp, humidity, rain, wind speed, wind direction. Those 5 make up the basis of a basic system. Any less and you may be limited on where you can upload your data...for example if you are missing one of those basic 5. I may be wrong and there is too many different places to test or inquire with and things change all the time. Even if you aren't uploading the data then some weather software may also look for the basic set. Again I may be wrong but you don't see many people around here saying that they don't have a complete set of these 5 basic sensors.

Instead of getting the meteobridge and ambientweather.net license, could I get the "Ambient Weather WEATHERBRIDGE Universal WIFI IP Ethernet Server for Weather Stations?"  Same thing? 

No, that won't work. The Ambient WeatherBridge does not communicate with any sensor directly....well with the exception of the WeatherBridge PRO (MB PRO)...but I think they stopped selling that (or it is just out of stock) and it was about $465 anyway. But that would only work for Davis sensor stations anyway. The WeatherBridge is like I said earlier just a Meteobridge. The Meteobridge is compatible with a few different brands/models of stations. You can see which stations the standard Meteobridge is compatible with here (but again this requires a station console and sensors):
https://www.meteobridge.com/wiki/index.php/Comparison

Can you tell me what you mean by software expandability? 

Software expandability is hardware/software that you add to a station to have it do more than what the manufacture gives you with just their components. The Meteobridge is a form of hardware/software expandability. The Meteobridge allows you to do more with the data from the station....send it to more online services, or log it locally to your own computer, or analyze it locally with that software, or send the data to your own private website....etc.

Realize that even though Ambient sells the WeatherBridge and they sell the WS-2000 and they sell many other models of stuff none of this is made by them. All this stuff comes from other companies (like many many different companies depending on what you are looking at).  Ambient is just a reseller of hardware....but they have invested in their own weather network that is supported by the multitude of different hardware that they sell.

Seems like maybe just the GW1000 plus sensors might work for me.

Just the GW1000 with some sensors will work. But it will only send data to: Ecowitt.net, Weather Underground, WeatherCloud, MetOffice WOW, PWSweather*, AWEKAS*, or to systems with other weather software. *You can't send to both PWSweather and AWEKAS at the same time on the GW1000 as there is only 1 custom server destination possible that is compatible with these services. The other services have dedicated built-in configuration settings that you just turn on or off respectively and individually.  The "other weather software" are software like I we have mentioned....Meteobridge...but there are other options for software expandability like Cumulus MX, Weather-Display, and WeeWX. With the GW1000 you can run all of these (even simultaneously).

But none of those software will give you IFTTT. The only place I know to get IFTTT is with Ambientweather.net and the GW1000 alone will not upload there....it needs the Meteobridge with Ambientweather.net $100 license....(or a WeatherBridge...but blaaa you give up a ton with the WeatherBridge vs the Meteobridge running on Raspberry Pi ...see earlier Meteobridge comparison chart in regards to TP-Link vs MB RPI 4B)

Well technically speaking there was a recent thread on this forum discussing IFTTT and someone suggested a few other options to get IFTTT but they were not good recommendations as for weather hardware. One was WeatherFlow and the other Netatmo and neither are worth considering. Well I'm allowed to have a preference. Maybe someone else can stick up for either of those two, but certainly not me. I don't even like mentioning them...but if I didn't someone would correct me. Maybe I should find a way to rephrase my IFTTT statement to not need to include these but still be factual.....for example....Ambientweather.net is currently the only recommended network for IFTTT support. There...hmmm....I'll see how that sits for now as statement.

As far as forecast goes, on the typical console sales pictures I see online, there is a small graphic of something like a cloud or sun.  Are you saying that that comes from online services?  I was thinking it just looked like something the console predicted from the sensors/pressure changes. 

Eric

No, that is hokey and useless. Those rain clouds and sun icons on those displays are merely just analyzing what might be possible due to your barometric pressure changes but it is very inaccurate. When I say "dashboard" I'm referring to your data on some online weather service that have crunched data from many stations using various weather forecasting techniques and computer modeling standards.
 

[ebrewer]

Thank you again, things are starting to make sense.  I could be wrong, but I think that my needs are probably far less than that of typical users here.  I mainly just want to have an accurate, reliable, and flexible system of reporting temps and humidities (and maybe soil moisture).

I think I can probably do without IFTTT as long as I can set up either email or (preferably) text alerts for things like low soil moisture, low garage temp, or high chicken coop temp.  Do you know if the services you listed as compatible with GW1000 (Ecowitt.net, Weather Underground, WeatherCloud, MetOffice WOW, PWSweather*, AWEKAS*) are capable of email/text alerts?  Also, just want to be clear, do these websites allow me to customize the name of the sensor (instead of channel 1, 2, etc...)

Thanks so much.  This forum has been great.
Eric

[galfert]

Those online services that I listed are predominately for weather data. If you don't have a complete system I don't know if they will allow you to upload any data. But since you are interested in additional sensors then the subject matter may be mute because they don't allow additional temperature sensors to be uploaded. They only want primary sensors. The exception is Ecowitt.net which will allow you to have any sensor combination and even an incomplete system of sensors. They will allow you to name the sensors anything you want. They also have email alerts capability. But there is no forecasting with Ecowitt.net. But if you need forecasting that can be something you do independently some other way. Like you could create your own website and then you upload your data along with a forecast that you pull from elsewhere.

[ebrewer]

Thanks for the fast response.  Sounds like ecowitt is the way to go for me.  Can you tell me the basics of how to transfer ecowitt data to my own website?  Also, can you think of any links I could go to and see someones "dashboard" with multiple temp sensors and a forecast from ecowitt data?
Eric

[galfert]

There are many ways to send data to your own website. The basics are that several individuals have created what amounts to website templates designed to display weather data. This means that most of the work already has been done. Only minimal initial setup and optional customization is necessary. This template code lives on your website server. Then your weather station needs to upload live data so that the template can come alive. This is done by sending weather data via FTP to the website. But the GW1000 is not capable of FTPing data. The GW1000 though can send data via HTTP protocol and it is possible that some weather template accepts this form of data.....I'm not sure. But the most typical way of maintaining a website is with some other weather software. The good news is that the GW1000 is supported by these popular weather software; Cumulus MX, Meteobridge, Weather-Display, and WeeWX. You can run any of those software on a Raspberry Pi or other computer. The software will get live data from the GW1000 and upload it to your website.

As for example of customized websites....just look a the signature of some forum member's posts, as many list their personal websites.

You can also look at the Ecowitt.net map to see what that looks like. Navigate the map and click on stations to see their data. As you can see everyone has different types of sensors and they often are custom labeled. You do not need a station to have an account. Just register for an account an you can see other stations.

https://www.ecowitt.net/

[Bushman]

Other than the forecast, you can do all that with Wirelesstags.  https://wirelesstag.net/webapp.html  as an example of phone app.

Oh, very close to your budget number as well.

[ebrewer]

The wireless tags look cool, except for one thing that I forgot to mention: I like the sensors that have the display on them so I can look at the temp/humidity when I'm in that location without having to pull out my phone.
Eric

[ebrewer]

At this point, I'm thinking that since I only need to monitor temp and humidity, I may be able to use the WS-3000 and observer IP to report my temps to AW.net or WU.net.  Can you confirm if that combo would work?

It appears that I would not be able to customize the name of each sensor and I wouldn't be able to send email/text alerts.  Is that true?

Eric

[galfert]

WU via the ObserverIP is not going to show you those sensors....it won't even show you one of them (speaking about WS-3000 sensors).

But for AW.net upload ...eh...okay.
I suppose this is one of the few situations where I could see someone using the ObserverIP which I do not care for.

[vinceskahan]

(sorry - late replying to the original post)

With the exception of IFTTT, which I have never looked into, everything you ask can easily be done with EcoWitt and weewx running on a raspberry.  While some people run on pi as minimal as a pi-zero, I'd recommand a pi3+ or pi4 for the performance and the 5GHz wifi especially if you're not going to hard-wire the ethernet.   For a case, spend a few bucks on a FLIRC case and you won't need to worry about needing a fan.

WeeWX is basically infinitely configurable, so you could cook up any web-based dashboard look'n'feel that you want.   It can also be configured to upload to just about anywhere.   Some folks alternately use node-red or grafana+influxdb or MQTT in their setups.  It really comes down to how much fiddling you want to do, but it's basically a couple-minute thing for the default setup.

I might add that the added indoor/outdoor EcoWitt T+H sensors come with a very nice readable display built in.   Very easy to read them at a glance.

[ebrewer]

That sounds great.  Could I run weewx on my windows 10 pc, which is up 24/7, instead of learning pi?
Eric

(sorry - late replying to the original post)

With the exception of IFTTT, which I have never looked into, everything you ask can easily be done with EcoWitt and weewx running on a raspberry.  While some people run on pi as minimal as a pi-zero, I'd recommand a pi3+ or pi4 for the performance and the 5GHz wifi especially if you're not going to hard-wire the ethernet.   For a case, spend a few bucks on a FLIRC case and you won't need to worry about needing a fan.

WeeWX is basically infinitely configurable, so you could cook up any web-based dashboard look'n'feel that you want.   It can also be configured to upload to just about anywhere.   Some folks alternately use node-red or grafana+influxdb or MQTT in their setups.  It really comes down to how much fiddling you want to do, but it's basically a couple-minute thing for the default setup.

I might add that the added indoor/outdoor EcoWitt T+H sensors come with a very nice readable display built in.   Very easy to read them at a glance.

[vinceskahan]

That sounds great.  Could I run weewx on my pc, which is up 24/7, instead of learning pi?

Kinda but not how you're probably thinking of running...

If you have Docker or Vagrant/VirtualBox installed on your Windows PC (or Mac), you could virtualize the linux stuff and run weewx fine.   But no, it's a unix(y) app so you can't just run a Windows installer and go.  Basically you need to be able to do some minimal Linux stuff such as start/stop processes, edit simple config files, etc.   

A couple folks run natively on a Mac but that's unixy under the hood.   I'm not aware of anybody running natively on a Windows PC even with the emerging windows subsystem for linux stuff (whatever they call that today).

But I'd recommend a pi and doing a little learning.  It's actually simpler to spin up on.

(edit - I might suggest taking a look at the link in my profile if you're in the US, CA, AU only.   The dashboards I have linked in there are all coming from pi or equivalent using weewx.   If you're outside those countries, sorry 'bout that but I found the need to geoip fence off the usual attacker country ip blocks due to too many script kiddies and bots.  Stupid bots.)

[galfert]

There actually is a WeeWX install for Windows but it is kind of an unsupported or untested and maybe semi-abandoned project:
https://github.com/weewx/weewx/tree/windows

Another option besides a container is to install WSL on Windows....which is basically running Linux inside of Windows...and this is a baked in feature from Microsoft. So yes Windows now has Linux baked in (if you enable it).

You can also run a VM in Windows.

But at the end of the day you are basically running Linux one way or the other. I suggest just jumping in head first and get the Pi as it is inexpensive and much more reliable than your Windows PC which gets updates and reboots whenever it feels like it.

[vimetg]

Thanks for the fast response.  Sounds like ecowitt is the way to go for me.  Can you tell me the basics of how to transfer ecowitt data to my own website?  Also, can you think of any links I could go to and see someones "dashboard" with multiple temp sensors and a forecast from ecowitt data?
Eric

Feel free to have a look at my ecowitt page in my signature for an example of multiple temperature/humidity sensors. The ones labelled with A and L are for testing alkaline and lithium batteries, so pay no attention to that.  From reading your initial post on this thread, I probably have similar needs from a weather station as you do: multiple indoor sensors, online access, low cost, future expansion options, etc.

I like having the option of adding more to the system in the future, and may add wind/rain/etc. to make it a more complete weather station at some point, but for now I just have the parts listed in my signature and only have it setup on ecowitt.net. In total, my system was $151.87 USD, ordered directly from ecowitt.com.

[ebrewer]

Thanks for the link to your site.  Right now I'm trying to decide between the GW1000 and the WS3000 and/or Weather-Display on a website.
GW1000 will list all sensors, including soil moisture, on their website, but no forecast. 
WS3000 will list all sensors AND a forecast (I think), but has no soil sensor capability. 
Weather Display would require me getting a website host.

Eric

Thanks for the fast response.  Sounds like ecowitt is the way to go for me.  Can you tell me the basics of how to transfer ecowitt data to my own website?  Also, can you think of any links I could go to and see someones "dashboard" with multiple temp sensors and a forecast from ecowitt data?
Eric

Feel free to have a look at my ecowitt page in my signature for an example of multiple temperature/humidity sensors. The ones labelled with A and L are for testing alkaline and lithium batteries, so pay no attention to that.  From reading your initial post on this thread, I probably have similar needs from a weather station as you do: multiple indoor sensors, online access, low cost, future expansion options, etc.

I like having the option of adding more to the system in the future, and may add wind/rain/etc. to make it a more complete weather station at some point, but for now I just have the parts listed in my signature and only have it setup on ecowitt.net. In total, my system was $151.87 USD, ordered directly from ecowitt.com.

[vimetg]

Thanks for the link to your site.  Right now I'm trying to decide between the GW1000 and the WS3000 and/or Weather-Display on a website.
GW1000 will list all sensors, including soil moisture, on their website, but no forecast. 
WS3000 will list all sensors AND a forecast (I think), but has no soil sensor capability. 
Weather Display would require me getting a website host.

Eric

I didn't really look into the WS3000 too much as I didn't like the console, but their photo of the console looks like the graph is just displaying the last 12 hours of temperature data, so not a forecast at all.  There was either a thread on this forum or an article online explaining how weather stations can't actually forecast anything (at least on a consumer-grade level?).  I also have a cheap (ie: $20 hardware store) indoor/outdoor thermometer in my office and it tries to tell me what the current conditions are, which is probably as close to a forecast as can be expected.  Apparently it can be sunny at night, and it currently says it's snowing when it's actually dry outside.  No matter what system you get, I expect you'll need to pull in data from other sources to get any sort of forecast.  Windy.com is a good example, as it can be embedded into your site with custom sizing, location, zoom level, etc.  And as much of a gimmick as it may or may not be, I've always really liked WU's "Tomorrow's temperature is forecast to be WARMER/NEARLY THE SAME/COLDER as today."

I would also like to have data on my own website at some point, but that always seems to involve a Raspberry Pi, learning at least some linux, and installing WeeWX or CumulusMX.  I have no experience with any of that, so I'd like to avoid it if possible.  Getting a website setup shouldn't be too big of a deal, although I have web design experience so I may be biased.  My current website for work is only about $50/year.  Free web hosting may still exist, but running whatever scripts are necessary may limit your options.  I'm hopeful that Ecowitt will eventually make it easy to pull data from either the GW1000 directly or their website.  That way, I could insert something like "wh31channel1temperature" right into my page.

[ebrewer]

Just to clarify, when I said the ws3000 had a forecast, I was referring to the forecast you can insert onto your personal ambientweather.net website, not the graph on the console.  That graph could be useful for me to see how fast the chicken coop heats up, for example, but not as a weather forecast.

If I'm not wrong, I think that setting up a website and pulling my ecowitt data to it and displaying it in a customized way using Weather-Display, windows 10 software, may not be too difficult for me.

I've found that hostinger offers a basic website for $1 per month if you pay for 48 months up front. 

Eric

Thanks for the link to your site.  Right now I'm trying to decide between the GW1000 and the WS3000 and/or Weather-Display on a website.
GW1000 will list all sensors, including soil moisture, on their website, but no forecast. 
WS3000 will list all sensors AND a forecast (I think), but has no soil sensor capability. 
Weather Display would require me getting a website host.

Eric

I didn't really look into the WS3000 too much as I didn't like the console, but their photo of the console looks like the graph is just displaying the last 12 hours of temperature data, so not a forecast at all.  There was either a thread on this forum or an article online explaining how weather stations can't actually forecast anything (at least on a consumer-grade level?).  I also have a cheap (ie: $20 hardware store) indoor/outdoor thermometer in my office and it tries to tell me what the current conditions are, which is probably as close to a forecast as can be expected.  Apparently it can be sunny at night, and it currently says it's snowing when it's actually dry outside.  No matter what system you get, I expect you'll need to pull in data from other sources to get any sort of forecast.  Windy.com is a good example, as it can be embedded into your site with custom sizing, location, zoom level, etc.  And as much of a gimmick as it may or may not be, I've always really liked WU's "Tomorrow's temperature is forecast to be WARMER/NEARLY THE SAME/COLDER as today."

I would also like to have data on my own website at some point, but that always seems to involve a Raspberry Pi, learning at least some linux, and installing WeeWX or CumulusMX.  I have no experience with any of that, so I'd like to avoid it if possible.  Getting a website setup shouldn't be too big of a deal, although I have web design experience so I may be biased.  My current website for work is only about $50/year.  Free web hosting may still exist, but running whatever scripts are necessary may limit your options.  I'm hopeful that Ecowitt will eventually make it easy to pull data from either the GW1000 directly or their website.  That way, I could insert something like "wh31channel1temperature" right into my page.

[vimetg]

Just to clarify, when I said the ws3000 had a forecast, I was referring to the forecast you can insert onto your personal ambientweather.net website, not the graph on the console.  That graph could be useful for me to see how fast the chicken coop heats up, for example, but not as a weather forecast.

If I'm not wrong, I think that setting up a website and pulling my ecowitt data to it and displaying it in a customized way using Weather-Display, windows 10 software, may not be too difficult for me.

I've found that hostinger offers a basic website for $1 per month if you pay for 48 months up front. 

Eric

I have no experience with ambientweather.net, but that does seem more plausible than the console producing a forecast on its own. I can confirm that you’ll only get data from your own sensors on ecowitt.net at the moment.

While most weather software seems to be for Linux, there are some Windows options. For me, though, I don’t want my computer actively running 24/7. It’s logged off and in sleep mode for 1/2 to 3/4 of the day, and I don’t think software will be able to collect and transmit data when in sleep mode. I could be wrong, and I haven’t actually looked into software in detail yet.

[ebrewer]

Leaning towards ambient system.  Tech support is telling me that the forecast in this image comes from my personal barometric pressure data.  Doesn't seem right.  What do you think?
Eric

[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

As far as forecast goes, on the typical console sales pictures I see online, there is a small graphic of something like a cloud or sun.  Are you saying that that comes from online services?  I was thinking it just looked like something the console predicted from the sensors/pressure changes. 

Eric

No, that is hokey and useless. Those rain clouds and sun icons on those displays are merely just analyzing what might be possible due to your barometric pressure changes but it is very inaccurate. When I say "dashboard" I'm referring to your data on some online weather service that have crunched data from many stations using various weather forecasting techniques and computer modeling standards.

[galfert]

Ambient tech support is not what it used to be since Ed left 

[ebrewer]

so he is wrong, hopefully? Any idea where it comes from?

Ambient tech support is not what it used to be since Ed left 

[Bushman]

How do you think forecasts are made?  What do you think they use for baro?