Author Topic: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?  (Read 1198 times)

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Offline n1vg

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What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« on: March 14, 2023, 06:40:02 PM »
Hi all,

I'm the owner of Argent Data Systems, and we've had our venerable ADS-WS1 weather station on the market for many years now. The station was designed to fill a particular underserved niche at the time, namely low-cost remote site monitoring.

When the station was developed, there were a number of inexpensive home weather stations available but they all depended on USB connections with proprietary software, if they had any interface at all. Peet Bros and Davis were the best options if you wanted to put up a station on the amateur radio APRS network, but they were hundreds of dollars before adding a TNC and radio. The ADS-WS1 has always been sold at $155.

It was built primarily for APRS, with an RS-232 output for local use and also support for voice readout over the radio and it has a base unit with the APRS TNC built in. It's still in production but is getting pretty long in the tooth - it doesn't have USB support, for one and still requires a serial port to configure.

The wind and rain sensors are made by a supplier that has also provided parts for a lot of the other consumer-grade stations you've seen on the market, so they're nothing special but thoroughly proven. We've gotten the anemometers up to 106 MPH in a wind tunnel and they hold up well.

The WS1 was already due for a refresh before the pandemic hit, but then component shortages had us scrambling to keep anything in production and the redesign got put on the back burner. We're finally getting a chance to get back to it now and I'm looking for your input.

What do you want to see in an affordable weather station that's not well covered by existing options? What we've got in the works already for the next version includes NFC configuration support, so you can set up the station by tapping it with an Android phone (iOS support to come eventually, I hope, but Apple is always a pain to work with when it involves hardware) and using an app to change settings. I expect it'll also have LoRaWan support but it's not decided whether that will be on all boards or if it'll be offered as an add-on module.

We've also got particulate sensors on hand that we've been evaluating and will either be available as an internal addition to the station itself or as an external box, depending on what fraction of our customers want that feature.

Basically our place in the market is between homebrew solutions and $1000+ professional stations. We're here to serve the hobbyists, researchers, and others who need to deploy remote weather stations on a budget and get the most bang for their buck. We're not out to go head to head with the likes of Vaisala - we're here to give you a station at least as good as any you'd put together with Arduino or ESP32, but ready to use, documented, and polished.

So let me know what your requirements are. Do you want cellular data support? WiFi for use at home? LoRaWan? How important is particulate monitoring to you? Is logging to SD card important to you? Do you have specific price and power budget numbers you're trying to hit?

Let me know and we'll do our best to make sure the next version meets your needs!

Cheers,

Scott

Offline johnd

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Re: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2023, 09:46:58 AM »
PM sent.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline stevenh

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Re: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2023, 10:04:01 AM »
Hi Scott, funny you mention Peet Bros stations. I've used them for years, but I smoked the console after a location move hooking up the weather picture.
I see your station outputs the Peet serial stream.
What I'd like to see a lower cost weather picture on the market. I just finished writing a bash script to scrape data from a Ecowitt GW1100 and send it to the weather picture.
I find the visibility of bright red LED's a big plus, they can be read across the room. At the right price, I'd have them at out local boat club and our fishing coop.

Steve


Offline n1vg

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Re: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2023, 04:48:10 PM »
I always thought that thing was weirdly overpriced. I think the problem with competing directly against it with the same kind of device is that today it'd actually be a lot cheaper to just put a monitor on your wall and hook it up to a Raspberry Pi. And cheaper than that would be writing an app for something like an Amazon Firestick.

Offline stevenh

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Re: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2023, 05:56:19 PM »
I agree with you on the WP cost.
I'm sure I'm missing something, but I haven't seen a App skin for anything that isn't very busy and just a basic display like the WP.
Pi skins I've see, as well as PWT are nice on a desk android tablet. Does PWT work on a firestick and monitor? Google vs Amazon, something to look at tomorrow.
Also, is monitor screen burn still a thing with big non-moving characters? That is why Led's may be old school, but just work.

Steve


Offline vinceskahan

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Re: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2023, 08:48:42 PM »
You're going to have to bound the cost max for us.

I would like to see something in the WeatherFlow Tempest $350 range but without its hacks and limitations.

  • be able to run LAN-only with 'no' Internet connectivity required ever
  • have the sensors just.plain.work. right out of the box
  • be able to add low-cost display (ala kindle fire running a web browser or the like)
  • have a quality local API for programming interfaces to the data.  Perhaps MQTT, maybe a UDP broadcast ala WeatherFlow, maybe REST.
  • have an affordable quality datalogger with some kind of battery backup and catchup if power is list
  • I prefer no requirement for wifi, with available wired ethernet ideally, but if wifi support 5GHz too

Another way of looking at it is think of a Vantage Vue and add an 'affordable' datalogger to it, and a good API like WeatherFlow's.

Basically make it capable of running lan-only and being weewx-friendly.
WeeWX sites:
  Davis VP2+DFARS to a pi4
  EcoWitt GW1000, WH32 outdoor T+H, multiple WH31 indoor T+H, WH51 soilMoisture, WH34 soilTemp (pi4)
  Davis AirLink (inside)
  PurpleAir (outside)
Home site:        https://www.skahan.net/
Wunderground: KWAFEDER15
PWS:                KWFEDER15
CWOP:              CW6881

Offline n1vg

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Re: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2023, 03:53:17 PM »
Also, is monitor screen burn still a thing with big non-moving characters? That is why Led's may be old school, but just work.

I think burn-in isn't so much a problem anymore. Personally I really wanted to make an outdoor readable display for the local paraglider training hill but it took me years to find a flip-dot display at a reasonable price and I still haven't gotten around to building a driver for it.

A Weather Picture device would be a great application for our UV flatbed printer - all of the graphics could be printed in-house on glass or acrylic. I just hate to depend on that beast for anything - it's been down more than it's been running and it takes daily attention.

Offline n1vg

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Re: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2023, 04:02:57 PM »
You're going to have to bound the cost max for us.

I would like to see something in the WeatherFlow Tempest $350 range but without its hacks and limitations.

Basically make it capable of running lan-only and being weewx-friendly.

I think I'd set a limit of about $400 for any station we were going to produce, and I'd like to keep it under $250. And don't worry, I am very much set on NOT making it dependent on any cloud-based anything. In fact going forward I think that's likely to be a central theme in our offerings. Silicon Valley and Shenzhen both are fixated on producing products that require an internet connection whether it's necessary for their function or not, with proprietary protocols - if they have APIs at all, it's through their cloud service and not for the device itself. I hate it, and it doesn't work for many of the use cases we cater to.

I'm also more than 5 weeks in to trying to get control of my company Facebook page back after Meta locked out my personal account because of a hack. 5 weeks without being able to even get a human to acknowledge the problem. To say I am not on board with the direction the tech industry is going in that respect would be an understatement. People need to be able to own their own stuff, and not depend on the whims of faceless companies that might render their own products useless by going under or just ceasing to support an old product.

Offline stevenh

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Re: What do you want to see in a low-cost station?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2023, 01:11:01 PM »
I look at the weather station as two pieces. The instruments and the display.
As noted here, most of the displays are tiny and made for desktops. I'm old and like big displays!
I took another look at available weather software and found a reference to weatherwizz.
It looks like it will work for my use case. I have many old monitors and a several RPi's kicking around.
Still tweaking the display and need to send support a message on if the black color of the graph can be changed.
Overall I happy with the custom setup.

Steve