Topic: newbie with some Ecowitt equipment and site placement questions

[safetythird]

Hi all,

I've been contemplating buying a weather station for a little while now and been reading through the forums here and learning what I can. Now that I've narrowed down my choices I could do with a little help on where to position the station and how to connect everything given my site is a little awkward.

I live on a farm and our house is an old building with 2' thick walls. This means that wifi doesn't really make it outside the house. the house is also surrounded by trees and hedges so a station mounted above the roof is still going to be quite sheltered. Also, both chimneys are in full time use over the winter as we heat the house with wood.

I think the best option is to mount a 20' pole on the corner of one of the barns which, while there are some smaller trees around them, the hedges were recently laid so won't be high in the next few years and also have an open field around them. The back of one of the barns also houses my workshop which has a wifi access point in it.

I've attached a few photos to show the area around the house and the barns with a yellow line showing what I think is the best place to attach a 20' pole. This would put the station about 10' above the roof and 10' from the chimney. The stove connected to the chimney is from the wood burner in the workshop and is only used when I'm spending a full day in there during cold weather so isn't in regular use.

There's nowhere else other than the house that has internet connectivity so it needs to be close to the barn. Now, equipment wise, I'm thinking of getting the Froggit DP1500 (Ecowitt g1001 equivalent) although the separated sensor package of the g1002 also looks interesting.

(https://www.froggit.de/product_info.php?info=p444_dp1500-wi-fi-weather-server-usb-dongle-incl--1-x-dp50---wh4000se-all-in-one-outdoor-sensor.html)

as there's no point me having a display when it's going to be in the workshop/barn. However, that means that the indoor temperature and humidity that the g1000 box measures wouldn't be the inside house measurement so that's pretty redundant. Also, while the corrugated tin on the side/roof of the barn should pass the sensor signal from the station that's only 10-15' away, there's probably no chance of getting a signal if I put a couple of soil sensors in the allotment 100m away.

the Froggit unit also comes with the DP50, which is another temp/humidity sensor. I'm not quite sure where that would normally be placed if there's also similar sensors in both the g1000 box for indoors and the wh4000 main station unit. Can anyone shed light on that?

My other thought was to mount the G1000 in a plastic box on the outside of the barn to give better reception to the station and possibly some other sensors on the 868 MHz band that might reach to our allotment but then the temp/humidity would be useless.  I would like air quality meter and lightning detector add ons at some point though. The wifi from inside the workshop should reach through to the g1000 in a plastic box outside.

any thoughts suggestions would be most welcome.

view of house with surrounding trees, taken from corner of the allotment, you can see the barn in the background behind the trees.
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View across field to barns behind hedge
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closer view with yellow line showing proposed site of pole
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close up of corner of barn with proposed pole position, I can bolt all the way through into the corner post of the barn for a really solid attachment as it does get quite windy here in Devon in the winter.
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Front view of barns with post site highlighted
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althernative view with chimney visible.
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[galfert]

The sensors do not communicate to the console with WiFi. The sensor communication is over RF (radio frequency) broadcast. This is a one way transmission using much lower frequency than WiFi and can therefore penetrate walls much better than WiFi. The frequency used by WiFi is 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz, and these weather sensors use 433, 868, and 915 MHz. I think you got this, but I just wanted to be sure and for others reading your question so that they don't get confused.

You could also extend your WiFi if you need better placement of sensors away from the house. There are many WiFi mesh solutions.

You place the console indoor where only that device needs WiFi. But you can extend it if you need more distance away from trees. You might need to build some kind of shelter for the console like the GW1000 if you need to place it outside after WiFi is extended.

To solve the indoor temperature issue you could get an additional WH31 for the house. Then ignore the real "indoor" and instead look at the extra WH31 as your indoor.

Another solution is to consider the DIY modification on the outdoor all-in-one with a Yagi antenna for more RF range. Ecowitt also recommended in extreme cases to open the GW1000 and extend the red antenna wire outside of the case.

For best siting of sensors I recommend taking a look at this:
https://www.weather.gov/media/epz/mesonet/CWOP-Siting.pdf

[safetythird]

Galfert, thanks very much for your reply. Yes, I was aware than all the sensors communicate on 868 not wifi but didn't realise it had greater penetration through walls that 2.4ghz, that might be very useful to know and might change my thoughts on where to site things.

In the first picture, you can see the telephone pole in the garden which is close to the house and I'm wondering whether I could mount the anemometer on that or if the trees would be affecting it. If not, then if I bought the separate sensors, I could put the rainguage on a fence post 30m from the house with the g1000 on a windowsill which should give suitable connection.

have to walk around and have another look at the place now I know the sensors might be able to be put closer to the house.

[galfert]

A Google Maps satellite view with these locations marked might be helpful.

[Mandrake]

Galfert, thanks very much for your reply. Yes, I was aware than all the sensors communicate on 868 not wifi but didn't realise it had greater penetration through walls that 2.4ghz, that might be very useful to know and might change my thoughts on where to site things.

In the first picture, you can see the telephone pole in the garden which is close to the house and I'm wondering whether I could mount the anemometer on that or if the trees would be affecting it. If not, then if I bought the separate sensors, I could put the rainguage on a fence post 30m from the house with the g1000 on a windowsill which should give suitable connection.

have to walk around and have another look at the place now I know the sensors might be able to be put closer to the house.

The important thing for the GW1000 if you opt for that solution is for that to have 2.4gHz Wifi connectivity if you wish to upload the data to ecowitt.net and/or other services like Weather Underground. You can always add  a HP2550 console for indoors later if you wish or use a Tablet and software like GW1000Live to view your data from the GW1000.
The GW1000 has very good sensitivity in reception for the various sensors that transmit the weather data to it, so you should be fairly OK for most of your proposed options, particularly if the GW1000 is by a window and has line of sight to its sensors. To be honest its fairly rare to have a perfect spot for your sensors and most usually have some form of compromise. If you find that the trees for instance are causing too much interference then you can always move the sensor later on. Another aspect to remember is that the installations are not install and forget. You will need to put them somewhere you can get to clean every few months (especially rain gauge) and for battery swaps.

If you are interested in the GW1002 package then the manual can be found here:
http://www.ecowitt.com/upfile/201909/GW1002%20Manual.pdf

[safetythird]

A Google Maps satellite view with these locations marked might be helpful.

I'll sort that out later today.

[safetythird]

I'm also wondering if putting the G1000 in the loft might be a good idea, there would only be the roof tiles between it and the sensors and there'd be a more direct line of sight. would easily get the house wifi for connection and I can put a power point up there easily enough.

[safetythird]

ok some google map pics. First one is overall area with woods etc, second is close up of the farm and proposed sites for either the complete station on a pole by the barn or just the anemometer there and the temp/humidity/rain gauge on a fence post in the garden.

Being able to add additional temp/humidity & soil moisture sensors within the house and the polytunnel/allotment might be a useful addition in the future.

another question is, can more than 1 GW1000 be used to feed data to a single site in WS view or weather underground?

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[galfert]

Why not make fence post location the place for the complete station? That to me seems like the best location for everything out of all the yellow arrow locations. Put the the station pole there and you'll have good RF coverage and you can keep the GW1000 indoor with good WiFi signal.

[safetythird]

main reason was because I'd have to put a 30' high pole there which would involve putting guys in, which isn't really feasible. There's also the trees along the drive just left of that area which would be a wind block as that's the direction of the prevailing wind.

If I put the pole on the side of the barn, there's far fewer trees around and I can get the anemometer a good 10' above the height of the roof fairly easily with a length of scaffold pole or electrical conduit.

[galfert]

Most people that want a weather station are just lucky enough to have a normal size home plot of land. There is a street, the home, and a back yard. The station ends up in the back yard and done.

That to me means this as a best solution (x marks the spot of the pole with enough room for guy wires if need, or you can use a flagpole and then no guy wires):
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[safetythird]

Sadly, due to having to plough the main field and wife acceptance factor in the garden, a guyed tower isn't going to be acceptable. The end of one of the barns is likely the best spot.

[safetythird]

Another option is that our chicken run has very hefty corner posts 10" diameter, 4' into the ground and 8' high which would be a solid mount point. Depending on how long a piece of scaffold pole or conduit I could get, I could bolt it along the 8' of post and put the anemometer on top of that. It's probably 40' from the trees along the drive which are probably 40-50' high. Not ideal but probably not too bad a position and the pole wouldn't need guying. It's that or mount to the side of the barn really.

Been looking at the Froggit.de site and sadly it doesn't seem as though they sell the separate anemometer and gauge package which would be preferable and avoid import duty/tax etc. Would anyone know how big a difference it would make to to have a temperature/humidity sensor/anemometer station package on a tall pole compared to having the temp/humidity package separate on a lower post?

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[PacoJavi]

Hi,

On the last question, unless the area suffers from acute thermal inversions, the difference is nill. Under no wind nights, thermal inversions affect the temperature and the sensor placement can lead to differences of 2+ deg. C (measured personally) , depending on how high the sensor is.

The ideal scenario is to have the thermo/hygro 2 m above the ground and the anemo high up somewhere.

Also, about the signal reception: I have a davis weather station with the console inside a house which has 1m thick mud walls. Davis claims a signal distance of up to 300m. What I have experienced is that, you either mount your station on the roof, or at a distance less than 50 m away from the console. Otherwise the reception is quite bad.
In my case, I have the ISS at about 60 m from the console and I rely on a window to get the proper signal inside the house.

[safetythird]

Hi,

On the last question, unless the area suffers from acute thermal inversions, the difference is nill. Under no wind nights, thermal inversions affect the temperature and the sensor placement can lead to differences of 2+ deg. C (measured personally) , depending on how high the sensor is.

The ideal scenario is to have the thermo/hygro 2 m above the ground and the anemo high up somewhere.

Also, about the signal reception: I have a davis weather station with the console inside a house which has 1m thick mud walls. Davis claims a signal distance of up to 300m. What I have experienced is that, you either mount your station on the roof, or at a distance less than 50 m away from the console. Otherwise the reception is quite bad.
In my case, I have the ISS at about 60 m from the console and I rely on a window to get the proper signal inside the house.

Thanks very much for the info, that's really helpful.

I received a quote for the separate units from Ecowitt but despite having sent three emails asking for an invoice and payment method they've failed to reply to any of them over the past month. I've decided therefore to get the all-in-one head from Froggit with a G1000 transmitter and mount it on a scaffold pole on the end of the barn. Should be 20' above the roof and in the most exposed place. If I use a couple of these mounts, https://www.aerialsandtv.com/product/wall-brackets-heavy-duty-single I should be able to just loosen them to let the pole slide down through them and can get at the unit by standing on top of the livestock trailer that gets parked next to the barn.

There's a wifi access point in the workshop at the back of the barn and hopefully it'll reach that with no issues despite the barn being metal sided and roofed. I can then just view the data through the app from anywhere.

[PacoJavi]

Just a few appreciations so that you can prevent the same mistakes that I made: try to limit the movement of the pole as much as possible, otherwise the heavy wind will cause false readings; The station must be reasonably levelled. I just happened to have a Davis Vue in Ireland mounted on a pole that was off by a few degrees and on windy drizzly/rainy days (and this is 70% of the time) the rain just would´t get into the bucket due to the tilt.

On the other hand, spiders. They will get into the station somehow at some point. I dismounted and dismantled my one after 1.5 years and I found 13 skins inside, along with the cobwebs, so I would try and have an easy access to the station so that it can be dismantled and cleaned.

[Mandrake]

I know that Ecowitt team have been maxed out lately and of course they are in the middle of their Spring Festival (New year) holidays which results in a shutdown of at least 2 weeks.

The normal payment route is via Paypal and the invoice is normally a simple e-mail with the e-mail address to send the USD payment to.
The good news is the Froggit kit is totally interchangeable with the Ecowitt sensors should you purchase or want more kit (at 868Mhz)

[safetythird]

Good to know I can add extras if I want to further down the line.

I'll make sure it's solidly and vertically mounted as well and probably bring it down every 6 months to clean and check it.

[Notsorusty]

Reading thru this post I thought I would check out the link posted by safetythird regarding brackets for mounting a pole to hold his weather equipment. The owner of this site is quite creative and extremely opinionated. Under the Knowledge tab there is a category called Cowboys' Locker (awful aerial installations). It is a very informative collection of things people will do trying to mount things on buildings. It makes for a good read.

https://www.aerialsandtv.com/knowledge/cowboys-locker-awful-aerial-installations

Lessons to be learned for antennas or weather stations!