Topic: Units and Symbols - Does it matter?

[galfert]

We all use symbols to indicate the units used in measurements. There is a governance body, General Conference on Weights and Measures (CGPM - it's French) and under it the International Committee for Weights and Measures (CIPM) are said to be the supreme authority on these matters which includes the definition and uses of the International System of Units (SI).

In the US we use the US customary units which is a responsibility of NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology).

Okay what does all this mean? It means that when we use km to indicate kilometers everyone can understand exactly what we are measuring and what we are talking about. Or when when we use ft and in we know that they are feet and inches.

The big question is how much do you all think this matters? Would it be okay to use kph or should it always be km/h to signify kilometers per hour? How about megahertz? Is it MHz or is it Mhz and does it matter? The thing is many people are guilty of not following the standards. Even major organizations are guilty of not following the standards on purpose!

See this discussion where I had a bit more to say regarding the new PWSweather website and its use of kph instead of km/h.
https://trello.com/c/ad0zg6CL

I know the answer to these rhetorical questions. I believe in following a standard. But the real question I propose is to get a concensus if we have the right to be outraged if others disagree? Outraged is probably too strong a word. I'm just struggling to find the appropriate word; disgusted, upset, indignation....no they don't fit either. You get the point.

This is not about Metric vs. Imperial.

[galfert]

Please participate in the poll above first post.

[wvdkuil]

Yes, one can discuss it till "sint juttimus" (Dutch) or "Saint Glinglin" (English)

As a script-writer I use the language translation files to circumvent those discussions.
This is the Belgian-Dutch (better Flemish version)

Code: [Select]

# units
 |hPa|hPa|
 |inHg|inHg|
 |mm|l/m<sup>2</sup>|
 |mt|m|
 |feet|Voet|
 |cm|cm|
 |km|km|
 |km/h|km/u|
 |kph|km/u|
 |KM/H|KM/U|
 |KMs|KMs|
 |mile|mijl|
 |Miles|Miles|
 |minutes|minuten|
 |Hours|Uren|
 |Hrs|u. |
 |km/uur|km/u|
 |Bft|Bft|
 |Kts|Kts|
 |KTS|KTS|
 |MPH|MPH|
 |M/S|M/S|
 |hrs |u. |
 |mins |m. |
 |min |m. |
 |secs |s. |
 |C|C|
 |F|F|
 |Celsius|Celsius|
 |Fahrenheit|Fahrenheit|
 |/h|/uur|
 |/m|/min.|And the English (whatever English in whatever  country) file can be used also to translate to the local way of writing it.  So if one wants to use "km/h" fine with me.
As long as the rainfall which is  measured in mm can be shown at my own website as l/m2 I am fine with all that "I know how it should be written" crap.

Wim

[miraculon]

I find the use of hectopascals hPa somewhat amusing/irritating in lieu of millibars....
Meteorology has used mb and still does. (I think...)

Greg H.

[waiukuweather]

hPa has replaced millibars for metric
you should not really be using mb anymore

[galfert]

Yeah the new PWSweather is also using mb instead of hPa. That irks me. I feel it should be hPa.
The old PWSweather had hPa for the graph but then showed mb for the tabular data. At least they are consistent now, but I wish they had chosen hPa.

It feels petty to be arguing these points. But I like things orderly and I prefer things to have a proper and standard way when it comes to science stuff.

Notice I didn't bring up Imperial vs Metric. None of this has to do with that. I have no problem in choosing Imperial vs Metric and supporting both. But even in Imperial if someone started quoting rain as 0.25 i then I would have a problem.

[CW2274]

Meteorology has used mb and still does. (I think...)

No idea about elsewhere, but yes, the NWS still does.

[galfert]

Inch-Pounds was first to the Moon, not Centimeters.

LOL...that was funny. Good one.

I've edited the poll so it indicates SI and Imperial symbols for clarity of the subject matter. I don't want this to turn into an Imperial vs Metric discussion because that would be off topic. The topic is if using the "standard" or "official" abbreviation symbols is important or if it doesn't matter. Is Ft or ft the same thing and equally okay or is there a "right" and "proper" way?
 

[vreihen]

Inch-Pounds was first to the Moon, not Centimeters.

.

[galfert]

You do know that the US customary units is defined by the Metric system and not the other way around. Wondering then what defines the Metric system?....it is defined by physical fundamental constants of time (speed of light), and specific atomic transition frequency, and Planck constant, and other things like that.

Again we are off topic.

[CW2274]

My daughter (third generation Navy) left 15 years ago and still puts slashes through her zeros. I quit that when I retired. Does that count?

[galfert]

My daughter (third generation Navy) left 15 years ago and still puts slashes through her zeros. I quit that when I retired. Does that count?

I like that! I put slashes through zeros too. I work in IT and when you are writing down a serial number or coding on paper...etc. you need to know if something is a zero or the letter O. My 1's have a little dash or slash on top so as to not confuse them with lowercase L. Which means then I need to put slashes through my 7 because I don't want to confuse them with 1's. It is all about removing ambiguity.

[CW2274]

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html/images/atc_img_151.jpeg

[CW2274]

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html/images/atc_img_151.jpeg

I STILL slash the Zed (Z)!

If in doubt, I still underline my S's as well!

[CW2274]

Back when it was Mc now MHz, and kc now kHz.

[CW2274]

Deleted my "off-topic" posts so as to keep things on track.

There was nothing "off-topic" about it. Besides, don't "give into the man"...

[weather34]

Deleted my "off-topic" posts so as to keep things on track.

There was nothing "off-topic" about it. Besides, don't "give into the man"...

Bob wakes up one morning and checks the lottery numbers and guess what he has won $500
Goes off to the lottery booth and collects his winnings and thinks I need a new TV one of those big flat screens and hang in it on the wall.Bob uses his arm reach to measure the space available an old memory from his boxing days of how long his arm reach was so he has got around 185cm to use..
So off he goes and walks into we-are-tv-dot-com tv outlet .
Bob walks up to the assistant a young student just graduated from high school ,Bob asks I want a tv the biggest you got, I got $500 in my back burner and I want the best bang for buck what you got dude…
The assistant replies no problem dude we got a 70 inch wall hanger for $400 .. Bob responds I want it in cm I’ve only got a 185cm space  .. assistant replies ha sorry dude we don’t do them in cm there in inches only !.
Bob thinks to himself there is another outlet down the block and off he goes , walks up to the assistant who has been doing the job for a few years and Bob asks I want a tv the biggest you got, I got $500 in my back burner and I want the best bang for buck what you got man .
The assistant replies no problem sir we got a 178cm  wall hanger for $499 (its the same model Bob had seen in the last outlet).
Bob replies great just what I needed because I only got about 185cm to fit it in , ill take it..
Bob walks out and comments thanks man so glad you sell them in cm , the assistant looks confused but just says your welcome come back anytime.
Bob gets home starts measuring up to drill some holes and guess what his ruler is in inches so off goes Bob to the local DIY store to find a ruler in cm .... story goes on and on

Later in Bobs life he moved to the UK from the USA and couldn't understand why everyone was driving on the wrong side of the road ... Bob went searching for a right hand drive car ...

Is this confusing you ? moral of this is confusing… Brian just bored and amused ..

[the beteljuice]

I remember when 'The Television' was smaller and going on "Bob's" body measuring system would be about half a Cubit 

[dunc1ca]

I voted in favour of using standard internationally recognised symbols, not abbreviations.  It is there to improve readability and avoid ambiguities.  Is it MHz (megahertz) or mHz (millihertz)?  Is it 15°C (degrees Celsius) or 15 C (coulombs)?  100 km/h (kilometres pre hour) or 100 kph (kilo-pico-hours??)

Just for information, here in Canada we don't use hectopascals or millibars.  We use kilopascals (kPa).  1013.25 mb = 101.325 kPa.
An example of the typical public weather forecast in Canada is here: (notice the units used)
https://weather.gc.ca/city/pages/on-143_metric_e.html

[weather34]

I remember when 'The Television' was smaller and going on "Bob's" body measuring system would be about half a Cubit 

Bob's education's evolved around the 30 cm ruler because it was bigger than 11.8 inches every time someone told him its the same he said look 30 is bigger than 11.8 . Bob is too young to remember Cubit Bob thinks Cubit is from Cuba.. have a good day

[galfert]

I voted in favour of using standard internationally recognised symbols, not abbreviations.  It is there to improve readability and avoid ambiguities.  Is it MHz (megahertz) or mHz (millihertz)?  Is it 15°C (degrees Celsius) or 15 C (coulombs)?  100 km/h (kilometres pre hour) or 100 kph (kilo-pico-hours??)

Just for information, here in Canada we don't use hectopascals or millibars.  We use kilopascals (kPa).  1013.25 mb = 101.325 kPa.

I voted for the use of standard symbols too.

But context matters. I don't think anyone is going to look at a weather station website and see 15 C and 100 kph and think that those numbers refer to some weather related electric charge and hours of wind or something. No, they are going to know it is a reference to temperature and wind speed.

When someone tells me that their weather station is a 915 mhz or mHz model, I realize that they mean megahertz not millihertz because the types in use are only 433, 868, and 915 megahertz.

That said we capitalize the beginning of a sentence because it is the proper way to communicate, not because we won't be understood if we choose to type in all lowercase. It says something about you if you do things the right way. It says that you are educated and professional and that you are not an amateur and that what you say matters and that you care and you can then be more trusted. It's the whole pricture that matters not any one thing. You dress for success. A new shinny suit is going to guarantee you the job, but it goes a long way and it starts to paint a picture.

Always strive to do your best and do things the proper way. That way when you make a mistake inadvertently, everything else you do right may save you.

[waiukuweather]

re that moon thing
NASA now uses metric

[vreihen]

re that moon thing
NASA now uses metric

...and haven't been back to the Moon since!!!!! 

[Mattk]

Not so much related to weather type data but the lack of use of the standard symbols °, ', " being Degrees, Minutes & Seconds especially with a lot of the web based Latitude/Longitude positions these days is pure slackness which can be very misleading. Decimals Degrees, Degrees Minutes & Decimal minutes, Degrees Minutes & Seconds can only ever have 1 (one) decimal point at the most. Positions written like 35.25.54N, 160.54.23W or 35 25.54N, 160 54.23W or 35.2554N, 160.5423 don't mean a dam thing.     

[waiukuweather]

re that moon thing
NASA now uses metric

...and haven't been back to the Moon since!!!!! 

but that is nothing to do with using metric now is it