Author Topic: Live Lightning Maps  (Read 1729 times)

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Offline WeatherHost

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Live Lightning Maps
« on: April 30, 2017, 06:54:06 AM »
Not sure what's up here.  I have both maps open, lightningmaps.org and the USPLN GE  restricted access version.  I can see flashes out the windows and hear the rumbles, yet I see no strikes on either map.  I'm zoomed out well beyond my own local area because I know light and sound travel.  Strikes are appearing even farther out, so I know the maps are working.  And I see many within my own area, even a few that have alarmed in my USPLN zone, so I believe my sensor is working.

Sometimes the light and sound coordinate with strikes on the map, but there are still several that I see and hear, that do not show on either map.  I'm guessing that they just don't catch everything?
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Offline miraculon

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2017, 07:58:47 AM »
Quote
I'm guessing that they just don't catch everything?

They don't. I have a "Blue" Blitzortung detector and a "Red". (w/different antenna types and about 20 ft. apart.)
These detectors will catch and miss strikes vs. the other.
Same with USPLN. I have seen closely matching strikes, judging from the time-stamp and position. At a certain zoomed out granularity, the lightning areas are pretty close. (same with Vaisala NLDN)

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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2017, 08:02:02 AM »
As Greg points out: they don't... regardless of what they may advertise.

Have you used the control setting on Lightning Maps Org to observer the 'experimental' algorithms? If not, try implementing that... not always active, and we're never sure what they're specifically 'shooting' at, but you often see 'experimental' showing twice or more number of impulses, especially if the cells are very active with types not C-G.

If the impulses are C-C and I-C, systems are much less likely to locate a stroke.  Also there are less common discharge type variations, with H and E polarities and discharge characteristics that are more difficult to locate since those are weaker, and other locating receivers at distance may not be able to pull them out of the EMF garbage of very active cells. This is one reason Blitzortung is designed to go Interference Mode with very active nearby cells... most of the signals can be 'worthless' for locating... but the system sure detects 'em! Until it goes interference....

Detecting is one thing... locating is another. You can 'detect' with ears and eyes or an am radio. It takes good data to locate. Blitzortung, in normal operation, only displays strokes it can 'locate', ... Lightningmaps attempts to locate additional discharges using additional algorithms and processing not necessarily utilized on the Blitzortung servers, and some of those results can be viewed when you enable 'experimental'.


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Offline hankster

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2017, 09:56:39 AM »
USPLN takes 3 sensors to detect a strike and a 4th to verify before it will display them.

Offline waysta

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2017, 10:40:46 AM »
Not missing a stroke might be more related to geographic sensor density. 

Offline waysta

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2017, 11:27:42 AM »
Also, the technology of the detectors and networks seems to be somewhat different. 

As I understand it Blitzortung uses a combination of magnetic field detection using two or three loop antennas (air core or ferrite) plus an E field sensor (perhaps the E field sensor is more responsive for closer events).  USPLN uses only E field sensing, probably for relatively shorter distances, possibly intending a relatively dense network over the years as more stations fill in for higher stroke detection rates and higher accuracy.

Also, USPLN stations make a brief report (probably station i.d., time, and just a few other parameters) to central. 

What information does Blitzortung send from each station for each stroke event to the central location?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 12:54:08 PM by waysta »

Offline WeatherHost

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2017, 12:32:10 PM »
What would be great is if somebody could come up with a Placefile for GRL products from one or both maps, even if there was a constraint not to share the displays.

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Offline saratogaWX

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2017, 05:46:01 PM »
I have a placefile for Blitzortung USA strikes at http://saratoga-weather.org/USA-blitzortung/placefile.txt you're welcome to use in GRLevel3.  The NAPLN ToC prohibits public posting of their lightning data.  Contributors to Blitzortung may publish on their websites (as I do for RED 802) and lightning maps on my site (https://saratoga-weather.org/NA-lightning.php).

If you'd prefer a placefile without the Bs on the strikes, you can use http://saratoga-weather.org/USA-blitzortung/placefile-nob.txt instead.
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Offline WeatherHost

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2017, 06:37:55 PM »
The NAPLN ToC prohibits public posting of their lightning data.

I know, but I was hoping for something to use locally only since I never upload/publish any of the screens.  GEPro is a resource hog and my CPU screams when I open it.  Having more than one of the programs open seems redundant if they could use PFs.  I'll try the other one though.  That should help.

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Offline hankster

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2017, 06:47:52 PM »
While not as fancy as the Blitzortung map there are publicly available maps from NAPLN



Offline WeatherHost

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2017, 06:53:23 PM »
Yeah, they gave us the delayed file we could share. 

I normally don't like moving wiggling things on web pages, but I get a kick out of the expanding thunder circle.  Unfortunately it doesn't show on the placefile above.

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Offline MaineJay

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2018, 03:29:32 PM »
I thought this might fall into this category.   The amazing GOES 16 satellite has the ability to detect lightning.

Band 7 with GLM - L2 Accumulated Group Energy (CIRA) overlay.  This is from the storm currently impacting the eastern CONUS.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

http://rammb-slider.cira.colostate.edu/?sat=goes-16&sec=conus&x=6822&y=4190&z=2&im=24&ts=1&st=0&et=0&speed=130&motion=loop&map=1&lat=0&p%5B0%5D=6&p%5B1%5D=31&opacity%5B0%5D=1&opacity%5B1%5D=1&hidden%5B0%5D=0&hidden%5B1%5D=0&pause=0&slider=-1&hide_controls=1&mouse_draw=0&s=rammb-slider
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 03:43:40 PM by MaineJay »

Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Live Lightning Maps
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2018, 05:26:06 PM »
On SFERIC.US for "exhibition" only, we show the real-time Blitzortung North America Lightning (about a 1.2 to 8 second delay, actually, depending on state of the internet, etc).

The strokes only display on the active map with a life on one minute, scroll down for 2 hour history... This display DOES NOT include any of the more 'advanced' experimental data which can be 'switched in' on Lightningmaps.org, but only strokes verified by at least 11 detectors, operating within certain modes and certain data characteristics. Generally it is only a C-G detection, but being a hobbyist, experimental network, we play with different schema. Some of those 'parameters' are in fact utilized in the 'experimental' data which may or may not be displayed on Lightningmaps.org.   Like most systems, the detection effectivity would be 40-70%, with a locating error from about 0.3 km to as much as 12 km, depending on many variables.
Generally, a well placed, well optimized system cannot effectively provide usable data for a stroke nearer than about 8-10 km due to system sensitivity and energy content. The systems are designed to 'stop sending' if certain limits occur... The system design is optimized for best operation 50-130km, effectively, to operate with the 'best data' region of ground wave /space wave reception... Skywave reception >130 KM depends on the station's 'ionosphere bounce" current window, and those signals can be distorted...Not withstanding, stations routinely operate at detection and locating distances >3500kM and we have a few stations in EM quiet locations that detect on three continents.

In the header of the page, you'll see 'sampled' (every 2 seconds or so) signals from one representative station, at various antenna orientation and badewidths.  Both E and H field signals are shown,... they are 'real time', but NOT every actual signal, only a 'random' grab every two seconds...
The hashes at above the signal disply represent 'zero crossings'of a given channel data.  At the very top, a representative FFT of thee signals energy content at bandwidth.

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