Topic: How is the group doing with finishing assembly of RED kits that aren't on line?

[n1dq]

I redid a number of solder joints, and verified the voltage on C55 at 1.47v. I also grounded the controller. No difference.

My existing scope has died (looks like the HV has gone out). I guess that finding another scope is the best course forward at the moment.

To be continued

Philip

[W3DRM]

Okay, sorry to say this but, you have five (5) components on the Controller PCB that are not installed correctly. These particular components MUST LAY FLAT on the PCB or the Discovery Board that is installed above it will not seat correctly and numerous connections may not be made which are needed for everything to work as it should. The tops of the electrolytic capacitors may also short out on the bottom of the Discovery board.

Are you using the latest version of the Step-by-Step Build document for the "Instructions for RED System Amplifier PCB 12 Ver. 3c * 8/2013 and Controller PCB 10 Ver 4 * 11/2013"? If not, it can be found at the following link:

• http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=20037.0

Be certain you grab the correct version for you RED kit as shown above.

The incorrectly installed components are as follows:

• C44 - 100µF
• C55 - 100µF
• C56 - 100µF
• C48 - 100µF
• T41 - BC338 Transistor

The problem is that now that the capacitors have been installed and the excess lead lengths have been clipped-off, you will not be able to bend the components over and still have long enough leads for them to be installed. I did the same thing on one of my capacitors and had to order a new one from Mouser. The transistor may be salvageable though.

The build steps for the above components can be found on Pages 17 and 24 of the document.

[corwyyn]

Yes it is a situation you can recover from.  I did the same thing with those four capacitors when I built my controller; thankfully I had saved all of the lead trimmings so I de-soldered the caps, soldered some leads in place then put the caps on laying down. So far it's been working quite well.

[miraculon]

How did I miss that?!
I made the same mistake on my build and had to make a run to RS Electronics for new caps.
It doesn't help that the silkscreen symbol on the board is round which naturally leads one to insert the electrolytic caps standing up.
corwyyn, is there a way to modify your CAD rendering to show some kind of dotted line outline that shows the rectangular "lay down" position for the caps?

I wish that the BO guys would modify the silkscreen for these lay-down caps. I blame the 11PM "trying to get the board done" syndrome for my mistake. (likely story, Greg  )

Greg H.

[corwyyn]

corwyyn, is there a way to modify your CAD rendering to show some kind of dotted line outline that shows the rectangular "lay down" position for the caps?

Yep!

This is also the 'first light' for the bare board renders we were discussing in the documentation thread.  Since I was replacing the white circles with the cap outlines I went ahead and moved the designators to maintain legibility.  I'll see if I can get the rest of the bare board images done this weekend.

Oh and I still need to add the dimensions to this one so there will be a revision soon.

[Einar]

@ND1Q:
You should check the voltage across C64 on Amp13.
And if it is not 2.5V, then it is probably a short pin3-4 on MCP6S91.
Especially IC5 looks suspicious.

[W3DRM]

corwyyn, is there a way to modify your CAD rendering to show some kind of dotted line outline that shows the rectangular "lay down" position for the caps?

Yep!

This is also the 'first light' for the bare board renders we were discussing in the documentation thread.  Since I was replacing the white circles with the cap outlines I went ahead and moved the designators to maintain legibility.  I'll see if I can get the rest of the bare board images done this weekend.

Oh and I still need to add the dimensions to this one so there will be a revision soon.

While you are at it, don't forget that the transistor, T41 has to lay down also. It's next to the buzzer.

[miraculon]

Looks great. 

Greg H.

[corwyyn]

Got it Don, I'll see what I can come up with to show that the transistor needs to lay down while still showing proper orientation. 

[W3DRM]

Got it Don, I'll see what I can come up with to show that the transistor needs to lay down while still showing proper orientation.

Yeah, I was thinking it might kind of challenging to come up with an image that shows a transistor laying with its' flat side down. 

[corwyyn]

OK second try on the bare board image.  I think I came up with a workable solution to show that the transistor is supposed to lay down while also showing the correct orientation, if anyone has a better idea I'm willing to try it out.  Since I had enough room inside the cap outlines I decided to move the designators inside them for a bit more clarity.  As always any suggestions are welcome.

[SLOweather]

1214 from the San Luis Obispo, CA, central coast area, on-line, sorta.

It's up and running on 2 ferrite antennas I bought with the kit, boards and antennas just laying on the bench. The GPS is on a windowsill, behind a low-E window. Between that and the stucco netting and the aluminum shingle roof, I'm surprised it works at all.

Now I'm working on shielding the antennas with aluminum foil tape and building up the radome from 1/2" class 315 PVC, a corner Tee, and a box I'll find at the electrical house in a bit.

Then on to the E-field amp.

[DaleReid]

You would be amazed at how many stations start up with the same physical configuration that yours does.  Many still sorta look like that.

[corwyyn]

Between that and the stucco netting and the aluminum shingle roof, I'm surprised it works at all.

Yeah when I first brought my system online I didn't realize the connector on the cable I had purchased for the GPS antenna was an RP-SMA so I was actually running on the internal GPS antenna on the controller for the first few weeks      But even with the concrete shingles on the roof and the chicken wire under the stucco I was able to get a GPS lock. 

[DaleReid]

It has a built in antenna?  I didn't realize that.  But I was doing an external from the start so I guess I never had a reception problem.  I learn something every day!

[corwyyn]

Yes that particular GPS module has a small patch antenna built-in.  It won't compete with an external antenna for sensitivity but for our purposes it will work if needed.

EDIT: here is a pdf of the module - according to this the ceramic cap is the patch antenna so without the antenna it would be half as thick as it is on the board!

[W3DRM]

If you look at your controller webpage, under the GPS status section, you'll see that it says "External" or "Internal" depending on whether you have an internal or external antenna connected.

[W3DRM]

1214 from the San Luis Obispo, CA, central coast area, on-line, sorta.

It's up and running on 2 ferrite antennas I bought with the kit, boards and antennas just laying on the bench. The GPS is on a windowsill, behind a low-E window. Between that and the stucco netting and the aluminum shingle roof, I'm surprised it works at all.

Now I'm working on shielding the antennas with aluminum foil tape and building up the radome from 1/2" class 315 PVC, a corner Tee, and a box I'll find at the electrical house in a bit.

Then on to the E-field amp.

Congrats Chris 

I wouldn't worry too much about your signals until you get everything done with it. The main thing is that you have a "working station". Looking at your signals (http://www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=station&bo_sid=1214&bo_page=statistics&bo_show=station&bo_sid=1214) it appears that you have some noise which is most likely due to it not being completed and not in an ideal location.

[n1dq]

It turned out that it was the VGND line -- it was shorted to ground. After removing the solder bridge (between pin 3&4 on IC7) things are looking a lot better. I think that I have a source of interference somewhere....

The story continues....

[spark_finder]

I have an e-field only, just need to finish pcb13, program controller, install antenna inside of the Wife's 10' plastic bird feeder post (4" sch 40 critter proof) 20' from house.  The 150KHz SW radio says the feeder is a good spot so I'm crossing my fingers.

[W3DRM]

It turned out that it was the VGND line -- it was shorted to ground. After removing the solder bridge (between pin 3&4 on IC7) things are looking a lot better. I think that I have a source of interference somewhere....

The story continues....

Phillip,

Keep plugging along, you'll get on-line soon!

[W3DRM]

I have an e-field only, just need to finish pcb13, program controller, install antenna inside of the Wife's 10' plastic bird feeder post (4" sch 40 critter proof) 20' from house.  The 150KHz SW radio says the feeder is a good spot so I'm crossing my fingers.

Hang in there, you'll be on-line before you know it! Care to share where you are located?

[n1dq]

I'm station 1182 in Carlisle MA, USA. When I ordered the kit, there was nobody close, but now there is somebody in the next town over (Westford, MA) (Can you identify yourself?).

My current issue is that the automatic gain/thresholds stuff doesn't appear to work, and finding good values in manual mode is tough. When I think that I have it right, I get a good stroke/signal ratio. Then, without changing anything, the numbers go terrible.

The signals now look pretty clean:



There is some sort of low level noise before the signal and I know that I need to get the antenna into a better position, but I'm not convinced that it is going to help a lot.

I'd like to add the H-field antenna/amplifier so that I can see whether these E-field signals are also H-field (and if so, the direction). Is there any way to get an H-field kit? Or even the board, and I can source the components directly.

Philip

[miraculon]

You might want to look through the noise thread under Blitzortung and see if any of the noises that others have had look familiar.
http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=20439.0
A lot of us have fought noise problems, many are frustratingly intermittent. That is the main reason I use the auto/noise-adaption/filter settings. I have used numerous radios and EMI meters trying to hunt down the noises with mixed success.

Have you tried the noise filters? There is a repetitive noise that I have that they work well on.

I would try moving the antenna around. My E-Field antenna original location was noisy and not picking up strikes. I move it just a few feet up and over and the noise went down and I immediately began picking up strikes. If you have WiFi and a laptop, I found it useful to use the "Signals" page on the laptop while watching the waveforms trying different antenna locations.

When your noise occurs again, try posting the screen capture (get the FFT as well as the waveform) in the above referenced thread.

Greg H.

[Cutty Sark Sailor]

I'm station 1182 in Carlisle MA, USA. When I ordered the kit, there was nobody close, but now there is somebody in the next town over (Westford, MA) (Can you identify yourself?).

My current issue is that the automatic gain/thresholds stuff doesn't appear to work, and finding good values in manual mode is tough. When I think that I have it right, I get a good stroke/signal ratio. Then, without changing anything, the numbers go terrible.

The signals now look pretty clean:



There is some sort of low level noise before the signal and I know that I need to get the antenna into a better position, but I'm not convinced that it is going to help a lot.

I'd like to add the H-field antenna/amplifier so that I can see whether these E-field signals are also H-field (and if so, the direction). Is there any way to get an H-field kit? Or even the board, and I can source the components directly.

Philip

Yeah,,,know what you mean  For several days the "Participant's" page appears to have had issues... I suspect that there has been some server work in progress, also, although nothing has been said. I do know that one database wasn't working properly 'till Egon jumped on it.  That said, I think it's time for me to fuss a bit... we had a nice page going with station signals and FFT so I'm gonna see what I can do to get that data access back...
Second I do believe you're approaching this correctly, with filters, auto adapt, etc OFF... during this 'quiet time' is a good chance to study your environment... and intermittent noise sources are something we have a lot of fun with... don't worry... it'll change seasonally... and depending on how many orders they have for certain truck axles at the factory over the hill next to me.,...

The "Automatic Mode" has been, and still is, experimental.  The actual effect on E field signals is up for debate, since initial 'beta' was for H field. Remembering this is a "hobby" such things are in constant refinement... I personally prefer to remain manual, with no filters, and observe the constantly changing environment.. for the present time my gains on H field are either 10x5 or 8x4... which is way under capability, but new sources have appeared that insist on that reduction.  Previously, 10x10 was my 'normal' operation.  Now, if I were running "auto" and with those filters, I would be constantly cycling in and out of interference mode... and that is really irritating.  So, the 'reduction' in gain dropped me from >1500km  to <800Km... so... coincidentally, that is closer to the system 'design parameters'... where the network is actually designed to work most efficiently!  (30-500km ±)

Now.. obtaining an H field Red is probably impossible... best to simply wait for next generation... which may knock your socks off,,, if current developer discussion is any indication.
For E field... The channel of most importance is "C"... the wider band.,... If you 'send' anything, always make sure C is sent... you can reduce the gains on the other two to affect the filters for the bands <23kHz  and <44kHz... more or less... see http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=22710.0 which will no doubt add to confusion...    Part of the E field issue may also be due, since you don't run H, to default settings for amp 1... see the clues about "alternate channel mapping"...

You may also be affected by a Navy ELF submarine comm station near your area.  You'll have to learn to live with it... or declare war or similar.

Next, remember that a good E field probe is virtually immune to any H field 'M component' signal... so, your 'noise' is almost sure to be 'electrical' ... street light discharge, power line arcing, auto ignition, Navy transmissions with strong signals... plasma TV, arcing dimmers,... somebody running a drill nearby... a kid with a ray gun... Your signals may have a strong 'M" component, but at this discussion, it's more or less irrelevant... you have a strong "E signal"... and an 'H field' amp would almost assuredly show 'junk' unless extremely well shielded.  Meantime, enjoy the chase!  It's part of the fun!   Guys in quiet environments miss all this... you're lucky.

also..... your system (and mine) does not determine if a signal is a "flash"... that's determined on the server... so don't worry so much about sending noise signals... send 'em and let that system in Europe decide what to do with 'em.... 

Cheers!
Mike