WXforum.net
Weather Station Hardware => Other Weather Station Hardware => Topic started by: cabud on April 25, 2018, 06:22:52 PM
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Hello, I joined to ask this question. New member, hopefully life member in the making. I am an industrial controls engineer, wanting to get into weather tracking. I have some projects at hydro-electric power stations that have me interested in weather telemetry.
My question at the moment is regarding the solar radiation and UV sensors available with some brands. I can't find what these are for, why they might be useful, and if I might appreciate having these sensors even if I don't understand them now. I am an avid gardener, would I use it for that?
Also, If I post to the CWOP, and other web services, are these Solar and UV sensors providing data that they would find useful, even if I don't? Thanks
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From my point of view, there are those who have mainly Davis stations with their easily available add-ons or more complete stations with at least the solar sensor on them.
Sometimes it seems like solar values are just one more thing about our weather to measure and record. Other times it is used to help calculate evaporation losses, so I'm thinking the ag users would be more interested. Other times it does help estimate hours of sunlight, for growing, solar power generation,and so on.
Me? I glance at my graph and get a good idea of whether the skies were clear, partly cloudy, what time of day and all that. Just using as my 'sunshine indicator' for which there are other but not integrated devices.
Hope it helps your awareness.
Dale
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...My question at the moment is regarding the solar radiation and UV sensors available with some brands. I can't find what these are for, why they might be useful, and if I might appreciate having these sensors even if I don't understand them now.......
Knowing UV is valuable as it is potentially carcinogenic.
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With the solar sensor, the console will calculate evapotranspiration (ET), or how much water evaporates from the soil, and how much is transpired by grass. With that number, especially summed over a week, it's easy to make informed watering decisions.
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...My question at the moment is regarding the solar radiation and UV sensors available with some brands. I can't find what these are for, why they might be useful, and if I might appreciate having these sensors even if I don't understand them now.......
Knowing UV is valuable as it is potentially carcinogenic.
I agree with the danger of UV exposure, but most folks old enough to set up a PWS or to surf to a website and read UV data can pretty well tell if the UV index requires a hat, sunscreen, or whatever, without having to look at data on a PWS. They're nice to have but I can't see that they will really help protect someone from UV exposure. If you walk out and feel the sun hitting you significantly then a person needs to take precautions if they are so inclined.
Solar, as has been noted, is good for irrigation purposes and for solar electric uses. I do believe that the more "bang for the buck" is the solar sensor.
cabud, if you are considering a Davis VP2 and are considering the solar and uv sensors I *strongly* recommend going ahead with the VP2+ that includes these two sensors. You will never find the sensors as inexpensive as you will find them in the VP2+. Adding them later *is definitely* more expensive.
Best wishes,
Ed
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cabud,
The Fine offset weather stations like a WH-2310, (mine is Excelvan) calculate UV/light and is very accurate. The station is very affordable as well. If you get it report back and I'll give you some pointers on it, or just look in Ambient weather folder on this site, as I wrote about it several times in there.
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With the solar sensor, the console will calculate evapotranspiration (ET), or how much water evaporates from the soil, and how much is transpired by grass. With that number, especially summed over a week, it's easy to make informed watering decisions.
cabud, if you are considering a Davis VP2 and are considering the solar and uv sensors I *strongly* recommend going ahead with the VP2+ that includes these two sensors. You will never find the sensors as inexpensive as you will find them in the VP2+. Adding them later *is definitely* more expensive.
As you may have seen on another thread, after 10 years I have decided to replace my VP2 ISS and have ordered the VP2 Plus w/24FARS ISS. Looking forward to having it working, and do some sunshine comparison to my B-L sunrecorder and see if it will help my lawn watering schedule.
http://www.sunrecorder.net/sr-around-the-world/ and http://www.komokaweather.com/weather/sunrecorder/sunrecorder_display_v2_today.html
Enjoy,
Paul
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cabud,
The Fine offset weather stations like a WH-2310, (mine is Excelvan) calculate UV/light and is very accurate. The station is very affordable as well. If you get it report back and I'll give you some pointers on it, or just look in Ambient weather folder on this site, as I wrote about it several times in there.
Thanks for the recommendation. I am a mechanical and electrical engineer, and have qualms about the cheap units....doesn't mean the qualms are justified. I have been researching these for several years now.
We have a nearly constant very light breeze, I want something that will register that without having to lube it ar baby it. Do these cheap WS register very light breeze ?
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With the solar sensor, the console will calculate evapotranspiration (ET), or how much water evaporates from the soil, and how much is transpired by grass. With that number, especially summed over a week, it's easy to make informed watering decisions.
cabud, if you are considering a Davis VP2 and are considering the solar and uv sensors I *strongly* recommend going ahead with the VP2+ that includes these two sensors. You will never find the sensors as inexpensive as you will find them in the VP2+. Adding them later *is definitely* more expensive.
As you may have seen on another thread, after 10 years I have decided to replace my VP2 ISS and have ordered the VP2 Plus w/24FARS ISS. Looking forward to having it working, and do some sunshine comparison to my B-L sunrecorder and see if it will help my lawn watering schedule.
http://www.sunrecorder.net/sr-around-the-world/ and http://www.komokaweather.com/weather/sunrecorder/sunrecorder_display_v2_today.html
Enjoy,
Paul
Paul, thanks for the practical use scenario, I am mostly interested in that exact unit, but need to understand the value before spending the cash. Can you explain how you would use the sun sensors for helping with the watering schedule? Wouldn't it also be useful to have soil temp and moisture sensors? I am mostly interested in this to augment our large vegetable gardens. Our lawn is another story, nothing to look at there :?
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I was just quoting SLOweather and have no knowledge or experience as yet.
I pride my lawn (1/2 Ac) and try to keep it green during the summer. And during the dry summer months have been using a timer for watering 3 hours each morning and another 3 hours late afternoon which covers about 20% of the lawn each day (I manually change the sprinkler hoses twice a day) but have been considering getting a built-in sprinkler system. Fortunately I don't use metered water for watering as we have fairly good ground water supply and use my own well - electricity cost is another thing!
Enjoy,
Paul
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cabud,
The Fine offset weather stations like a WH-2310, (mine is Excelvan) calculate UV/light and is very accurate. The station is very affordable as well. If you get it report back and I'll give you some pointers on it, or just look in Ambient weather folder on this site, as I wrote about it several times in there.
Thanks for the recommendation. I am a mechanical and electrical engineer, and have qualms about the cheap units....doesn't mean the qualms are justified. I have been researching these for several years now.
We have a nearly constant very light breeze, I want something that will register that without having to lube it ar baby it. Do these cheap WS register very light breeze ?
I have never lubed mine, and it is the most sensitive anemometer I have used, and I have used Oregon Scientific, Acurite, and the wh-2310. Also look at the WH-3080 station if you want to upload to the internet sites. It works with Cumulus software, the WH-2310 works with meteobridge for sure. I do not like the software that comes with the stations themselves.
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RE: ET from a solar sensor and irrigation. There are 2 ways to use it.
The ET output from a Davis console is summed over 24 hours from midnight.
(http://www.sloweather.com/blog/2018/180426et.png)
Sum the 7 day daily max ETs and get a good estimate of the amount of water you should irrigate next week in inches.
I developed that and called it the Irrigation Index.
Then I found that the California DWR had developed the Watering Index. To use it you need the above summed daily ETs, as well as the highest average weekly ET for your location, and an irrigation timer with a Percent adjustment.
Set your controller to water the amount of the highest average weekly ET.
Then, the current controller percentage setting = (Last 7 Days ET/highest average weekly ET) x 100. Note that for a hot, dry, windy week, the setting can be > 100%.
Also, I modified that DWR index to include last 7 days rain for SLOweather.com. ((Last 7 Days ET-Last 7 days rain)/highest average weekly ET) x 100
Note that this modification can go negative. I wrote a PHP script to do those calcs for display on SLOweather.com. I think my Irrigation Index also includes the last 7 days rain as well.
Here's a grab of today's Indexes:
(http://www.sloweather.com/blog/2018/180426wateringindexes.jpg)
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Thank you all very much for the answers and replies, it is helpful.
I was going to purchase a Davis Vantage Pro, but now there is the member from Poland coming out with a WiFi interface for the Vantage, so I will wait until it is available for purchase.
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I was going to purchase a Davis Vantage Pro, but now there is the member from Poland coming out with a WiFi interface for the Vantage, so I will wait until it is available for purchase.
Why wait? They have nothing to do with each other as they are a separate purchase, unless your guy is a Davis dealer. Get the WiFi when it becomes available and enjoy your VP2 in the mean time.
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I was going to purchase a Davis Vantage Pro, but now there is the member from Poland coming out with a WiFi interface for the Vantage, so I will wait until it is available for purchase.
Why wait? They have nothing to do with each other as they are a separate purchase, unless your guy is a Davis dealer. Get the WiFi when it becomes available and enjoy your VP2 in the mean time.
Well....becuz....we have a small rented place, and the internet connection and router is in the garage, I have a wifi range extender in the house....the Davis hookup would involve extra equipment, since I want the console in the house, and there is only WiFi, and no PC or anything. This little device will solve my connection conundrum. Quite splendid.
The point I'm getting at is that you can still have your VP2 up and running for YOU. I owned mine for about 4 years before getting it on-line.
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I'm gonna throw my hat into this conversation.
I have both the Vantage Pro2 plus and Fine Offset (Excelvan) WH-2310 that Dr. Know mentioned. Honestly I can't imagine being without Solar or light intensity measurement. But I think newbies have a hard time understanding light intensity because it's not common meteorological measurement that the public is familiar with. They don't show solar on the news and they rarely show it on most weather sites.
To be honest I didn't realize how valuable the information is until I added solar radiation to my VP2 and now I wouldn't be without it. DaleReid pretty much summed up the same reasons I have.
I will say that as far as how it's read varies from station to station. The Davis VP2+ displays it in Watts per square meter (Wm/2). The Fine Offset stations change between Watts per square meter, Lux/Killolux, and Footcandles.
Some info on the unit usage,
Wm/2 Irradiance, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irradiance
Lux Illuminance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminance
Footcandles (fc) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-candle
As far as station models, like I said I have both Davis Vantage Pro2 plus and Fine Offset WH-2310 and both are great stations although you do get what you pay for in terms of longevity.
If you're on a budget of let's say less than 200$, the WH-2310 is an excellent weather station. Actually like Dr. Know I too have had Oregon Scientific, Lacrosse, and Acu-rite and I will say that the WH-2310 is probably the best budget level stations I've personally owned with or without solar data.
And of course the Vantage Pro2, there's no shortage of folks here who are happy owners myself included.
If you're looking for advice on weather stations I'd suggest visiting this part of the forum, https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?board=71.0
Hope this helps.
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I'm gonna throw my hat into this conversation.
I have both the Vantage Pro2 plus and Fine Offset (Excelvan) WH-2310 that Dr. Know mentioned. Honestly I can't imagine being without Solar or light intensity measurement. But I think newbies have a hard time understanding light intensity because it's not common meteorological measurement that the public is familiar with. They don't show solar on the news and they rarely show it on most weather sites.
Hope this helps.
This is basically what you have? I don't see much other option to buy in USA
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/MISOL-professional-weather-station-wind-speed-wind-direction-rain-meter-pressure-temperature-humidity-UV/2024020_32790333971.html
This says it has the solar sensors
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https://www.amazon.com/Excelvan-Professional-Wireless-Internet-Temperature/dp/B01E36FXJ4
Try this.
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The oval item on top of the the temperature/humidity/transmitter (the pagoda looking thing) contains the solar sensor. To the right of the solar cell there's a little white bubble. That's the solar sensor. On the other side of the solar cell is a circle that appears to be melted in by the manufacturer. Under that is the UV sensor. On the display the solar and UV is displayed in the top right corner of the screen.
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Thank you so much for all the info, I am looking at the unit you recommended, it's hard to believe it actually works.
I live in Northern Wisconsin, with harsh winters. I'm one of those people that regrets just about every cheap purchase I've made.
The reviews are so spotty for this device...Is this comment about the USB still the case?
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=32128.msg324292#msg324292
My main use for this is to upload to online site, need good connection, the USB issue has me concerned, as many have reported issues with it. Can you elaborate? Thanks!
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I put a ferrite choke on mine, adjusted the display and outdoor transmitter locations just a bit from where I had them originally placed, and the issue of USB hanging up went away. I don't think it was the USB at all actually, I think the signal was a little too weak and would not be received and that caused the loss of data. Those reviewers who gave poor results, I don't think they understood what they were doing... The directions are rather vague as to all the features and options for installation, also calibrations. The only thing I wish was different was the update interval on the wind reading, (48 sec) however, the transmitter is constantly taking a reading during that time, and sends out the steady wind speed and gusts of that interval every 48 secs along with temp/humidity and rain. Solar is around every 55 secs.
Here is my NWS feed. You can see it is working properly. I have it set for every 10 min. If the connection was dropping, it would be sending at shorter and longer periods, and not exactly 10 min like you see here. Also where rain is 0.00 would be blank.
https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/timeseries.php?sid=E5945&num=48
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https://www.amazon.com/Excelvan-Professional-Wireless-Internet-Temperature/dp/B01E36FXJ4
Try this.
Ordered one. Seems way too cheap to be any good, but this will be my initiation to weather stations!
I am a lifelong electrical and mechanical automation engineer, so I will have fun with it.
Where do you guys get replacement parts for these?
I plan to get up and running, then do a RasPi with Weewx / Cumulus MX for the net side of things. A bit of research yet for what software to use.
Perhaps we're getting off topic for the thread, it was about the solar sensors, and this unit has them.
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Let us know when you get going. You got this one for a good price. I paid 30 more.
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Let us know when you get going. You got this one for a good price. I paid 30 more.
I sure will! Excited about it
Can someone post a picture of the USB cable for these Fine Offset stations? I'd like to get a shielded cable with ferrites ordered ahead of time, need to know the type of USB ends it needs. Thanks
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It is the really small USB. I am using the cable from my old Oregon station.
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It is the really small USB. I am using the cable from my old Oregon station.
Ok, It is probably USB A to Micro B, or Mini B....guess I'll have to wait for the weather station to arrive to make sure.... I can't find info on line. Once it comes, I'll know for sure.
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Hope these work!
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Hope these work!
Thanks man! sure looks like Mini B....but I better wait for it to arrive, it's not real clear. Going into town for the afternoon, will get some mounting hardware.
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Have you gotten the station yet? Let us know how the installation goes.
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Have you gotten the station yet? Let us know how the installation goes.
yep! got the station, have the console powered up, played with the settings, I have the outdoor transmitter sitting in a window, so it is communicating with the console.
I am slow at things, as I am a busy family and church man. Working on the concept for pole mounting at the moment, need to get some hardware.
By the way, I was reading some comments about installing ball bearings in the wind instruments, for longer life, with these bearings
https://www.amazon.com/Miniature-Skateboard-Bearings-MR105ZZ-L-1050ZZ/dp/B00ZHSTKCE
I could not see how the anemometer comes apart for installing the bearings. Anyone care to comment on this? Thanks!
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Whoa, this is a cool site, answered my question about the ball bearing for the anemometer
Lots of great info here for the FO stations
http://lancet.mit.edu/mwall/projects/weather/
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I would plan to make a better radiation shield for the thermometer, other than that, everything else works like it should. I also don't recommend installing the rain bucket where you can't get to it for cleaning. It doesn't take much to plug up the inlet. One thing I have thought of but haven't gotten around to trying is taking some mesh metal screen and attaching it /tying over the top of the whole rain gauge to keep junk out of it. If you plan to mount it high, I would do this for sure...
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I'm hoping to mount the solar/temp unit under a structural overhang to solve the radiation issue, with the solar panel facing out to sunlight.
I also had similar thoughts with the mesh cover, but had doubts about it....You could do a mesh cover as long as the mesh wasn't tight enough to deflect rain drops. I don't know how the mesh would affect accuracy by interfering with incoming water droplets.
Do you have any issues with bird perching and droppings in the rain bucket? I was going to look at making at making a spike surround similar to the Davis. I will be mounting the rain bucket in a place easy to access.
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Birds are the biggest problem, but I have moved the gauge away from my TV antennas which the birds sit on and do their dirty deeds. Tonight or tomorrow I am going to take the extending phone cord I have and move the thermometer down to the ground when I install another UHF antenna for HDTV stations to my north that are giving me issues. I've put off doing this for over a month... Last night I was picking up channels down in Charleston with two antennas, one on the ground, so that got me motivated. It's hot here, so the time is now or never before the real heat kicks in.
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I successfully extended the cable from the wind sensors a couple of days ago. Everything is working nicely, and I have my rain bucket about 3 ft off the ground now for much easier care. The transmitter is in reach now as well. One thing I will mention is that when you take out the batteries, you must go to the console and re-register the transmitter or you will have a blank screen. To to this, hold down set and use the bottom arrows to find "reregister transmitter" at the bottom. Use the up and down arrows to select "on" then press "history" on the right side of the console.
Many of the comments you see on amazon that are negative are because they are not registering their transmitters!
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Awesome! I've had to do some calibration to get the accuracy in line with my Vantage Pro2+. This might sound crazy but my temperature and humidity actually follows within 0.5 degree F of my Davis temperature and humidity station mounted next to it. Yes I did have to calibrate that.
When I get home I'll give you the calibration numbers I use. That's probably one of my favorite things about those FO stations is they give you control over calibration within the console.
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Calibration numbers.
Wind. 0.73
Temperature. -0.5
Humidity. 10
Air pressure. (Set to local air pressure)
Light. 0.80
UV. 0.65
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Cabud,
If you want to extend the phone line, you can do so up to 25 ft. You must be sure the line is straight thru by looking at the end of the connector with the tab up. The colors should not change order, or cross over. Also you will need a coupler to join the two lines together. Ambient weather sells a kit, I bought my stuff at Home Depot.
I had to use some U bolts from my Oregon Scientific WMR100 to secure the thermometer and rain gauge to a different larger mast instead of what the station came with. I still use the station mast for my wind sensors with a hose clamp to secure it to a larger mast.
Moving the thermometer by extending the cable allows for the rain bucket to be where you want it near ground level.
Skywatch,
Thanks for the calibrations. I already calibrated mine, though not nearly as much as you had to.
Mine are Wind .24, Temp, -0.5, Humidity, 5, Air press. -00.03 Rain .24 - Light and UV none.
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Thanks so much for the calibration and location info, I do plan to extend the cables for the rain bucket.
I am working with two issues, I have the unit sitting in a windowsill for testing while I plan my mounting hardware situation.
The transmitter lost connection to the console just sitting in the wiondowsill. That didn't make me feel comfortable, so I am giving it more time to prove itsef.
Also, after I loaded the software that came with the unit, my laptop went into a reboot loop, making it unusable. I have had other issues with Chinese software loading trojan viruses, I hope this is not another case of such!
I was too busy to address it, at the moment running Bit Defender live cd scan. Hope to get the laptop running again, then see what I can do about mounting the unit. Sorry it's taking me so long. I'm an annoyingly careful engineer type :roll:
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The solar pod charges the batteries. If you don't put the pod in the sun, your batteries may drain down. Mine are still going strong since last July when I installed the unit.
I think the rain bucket only uses two wire phone line, while the anemometer uses 4 wire line.
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I may need to get the solar pod into more direct sunlight, would probably help.
Well, it looks like my test weather laptop is toast. It was pretty old, an XP machine that I've upgraded afew times, was running Win7 Pro with SSD, but has unrecoverable error.
I'll have to get something else up and running for my weather project.... slight setback :shock:
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When the laptop comes on, get it into safe mode. Then do a restore to a previous time.
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yah, been thru all that, and more. I'm an industrial IT engineer in my day job....this laptop has been with me for close to 20 years, it was a heavy duty HP mobile workstation grade laptop, retailed for over 3k back in the day :-P
Something got ahold of it, wiped the restore points...I'm thinking viruses, too bad. But, the machine has seen better days. The case is cracked, probably some hardware issues going on as well. It's traveled with me all over the place for work.
I've told myself several times to let it go, this time for good. I made my living with it for ten years, then it was my secondary PC, used it for stuff like this weather station that I don't want on my main machine. I'll have to give this some thought, come up with a solution. The laptop is toast.
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I had a transmitter failure yesterday during heavy rain / tropical moisture from Alberto. The red light on the transmitter was steady on. I could not get any transmissions to the console, and lost an inch of rain. I believe the problem was the socket under the solar pod got water in it and shorted. Before I moved things I had tape on the connection for just that reason but forgot to put it back when I reinstalled things. First I brought the transmitter inside and cracked it open. I tried cleaning things up a bit but that didn't seem to do anything at first. I put the batteries back in and the light was still on. I brought the solar pod in and dried the socket out for the rain and plugged it back into the transmitter, put batteries in and left it for a while. Eventually after about 15 min, I came back and the light was not on and so I watched and the light flashed every 48 secs, again as per usual. I got lucky it wasn't ruined. A new transmitter is $40. I hope this doesn't happen again!
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Did you install the station yet? My UV index has gone out. It's stuck on 0... I took apart the solar pod, and a spider had been living in there. That may have fried the component ? Not sure what else to think. Everything else still works well.
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Hi....no ...sorry, i haven't gotten it mounted yet.....TBH, I was fairly dismayed at the build quality, once I had it in hand. I shouldn't have been surprised, but it took the wind out of my sails.
I've also been rather tied up this summer, but I will eventually get around to it...just debating whether to munt this cheap station and fiddle with it, or get a good one that I can set up and forget for a while....
We have pretty heavy winter weather, wondering if it's worth mounting this station. Still might be worth it for the learning experience.
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You won't find another station right now with the features of this one and the flexibility of mounting the sensors at different heights. I did not use the pole that came with it, as I found it was too flimsy. My UV sensor is working again. I think it was just "wet".
I do recommend taping up the rain gauge plug under the pod to keep water from bouncing up in there... and shorting things out. I have had the station 11 months now, and it has done well. The thermometer is extremely accurate once you shield it from the direct sun.
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Ok, sounds good, I do plan to use this unit.
Sorry I'm so slow in reply, my back went out and I had to deal with severe sciatic nerve
Going to MRI today. I have a feeling I'm going to be pretty slow to get this mounted, but super appreciate your interest and keeping in touch. Thanks man