WXforum.net
Weather Station Hardware => What Weather Station Should I Buy? => Topic started by: box on October 06, 2020, 11:24:00 AM
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Hello everybody
I have been lurking on these forums for 2 or 3 months now and they are an absolute mine of information. Thanks to all contributors who are incredibly knowledgeable and generous with their advice.
Like a couple of recent posters I have taken the plunge and ordered a GW1002 station direct from ecowitt (4-5 week delivery quoted so thats' early November hopefully). I must say I am impressed with Lucy (one person?) with almost instant responses to my requests (allowing for time zones which works in our favour)
I am looking at the details of my installation and have a few questions
The house is about 2 miles inland from the north coast so we can get some northerly storms and everything needs to be solidly mounted. As you can see from the aerial shot my house is in the middle of loads of trees with no options for the rain gauge or anemometer so they will be in the small field to the east which is fairly level field grass
I have a site identified for the anemometer but am undecided on the mast height. 10ft will clear nearly everything immediately nearby but the highest trees in the area are over 40 feet high (marked on my image)
You can see from the 40m/120ft scale line (this is the length of an extension lead we used this summer for a framepool so its pretty accurate!) they are about 45m/140ft away. Other trees are pretty low, hawthorn to the north is only 15-20 feet and the boundaries to the east and south are only walls or hedges with ivy so under 10 feet. Will 10 feet be high enough?
My planned mounting is two 6 foot sections of 3x3, one buried/cemented to 3ft and the other bolted to it using the bottom bolt as a hinge (so I can put it up and down for maintenance) and the mast 32mm aluminium 14 gauge attached by stainless steel saddle clamps. It will only have the anemometer mounted to it (attached to 6ft of wood) so is that strong enough, will there be any wobble? If I extend to 20 feet presumably the wobble would be worse?
The road to the south is a public road but not a through road so traffic is light, height shouldn't be an issue concerning visibility from that road but the higher it is the more it will draw attention. My neighbour to the east is OK
The mast will be the highest metal object for quite some distance so do I need to worry about lightning? Its pretty unusual in Cornwall
I know that it needs to be aligned to north - how accurate does that need to be? Mag/True North are virtually identical down here so at least I don't need to worry about that!
Rain gauge will be at point R
Temperature sensor will be on the north wall of my house away from all windows and doors, vents/chimneys etc and this side never gets direct sunlight
I have a PC I plan to use to view/store the data. It runs 24/7 already doing something else, but not data/CPU intensive, although I am unsure what software to use. WeatherDisplay seems very polished but Cumulus MX also has many fans. Anyway The PC runs Windows 10 which has a habit of updating itself from time to time, would that mean a gap in data or is there a clever way of avoiding that? Also if I am backing up weather data what sort of size files are we talking about?
I am trying hard to avoid problems so I would appreciate any suggestions, flaws identified and so on!
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I don't know if your weather station stores data when the PC is down like a Davis does but you can suspend updates for up to 35 days. Go in to Settings - Update & Security - Advanced Options - Pause Updates . Select a calendar date. When the time runs out updates will be downloaded and applied. You can then reset the date after that. This buys time for M$ to fix any janky updates and resubmit them and gives you some control.
Another way is to shutdown the update service but after a reboot it will renable. The final way is through a registry change.
Word of caution - shutting down updates also shuts down updates to Windows antivirus leaving you vulnerable. I would go with the delay. If you surf on that computer I would advise caution.
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I don't know if your weather station stores data when the PC is down like a Davis does but you can suspend updates for up to 35 days. Go in to Settings - Update & Security - Advanced Options - Pause Updates . Select a calendar date. When the time runs out updates will be downloaded and applied. You can then reset the date after that. This buys time for M$ to fix any janky updates and resubmit them and gives you some control.
Another way is to shutdown the update service but after a reboot it will renable. The final way is through a registry change.
Word of caution - shutting down updates also shuts down updates to Windows antivirus leaving you vulnerable. I would go with the delay. If you surf on that computer I would advise caution.
Thanks. Yes, suspending updates isn't really an option. I don't know if the GW1002 station stores it anywhere, I'll take a look at the manual- plenty of time waiting for it to arrive!
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The GW1000 does not have ability to store data. You lose anything not recorded with your weather program when it is running.
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https://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-downloading-updates/
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The GW1000 does not have ability to store data. You lose anything not recorded with your weather program when it is running.
I feared as much. If data is being uploaded to ecowitt or whatever can it be downloaded again to fill in the blank or would I need another pc running to take over data collection? These win10 updates can take hours, especially the 'feature' updates or does it matter if there is a bit of a gap? Do the websites keep all the data uploaded or just summaries?
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https://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how-to-prevent-windows-10-from-automatically-downloading-updates/
thanks for the link
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Somethings to think about... what about power outages ? Do you have a UPS on the computer ? If there is a storm when the power goes out you will loose data. What about rebooting when software hangs ? Shutting down updates won't eliminate lost data when the above situations happen. It will only reduce the possibility. You will need to accept the fact that in your configuration you
will occasionally lose data and at the wrong time. Delaying updates to a specific time and date will give you the ability to control when updates are applied and how much data you want to lose. If you do shut down all updates I recommend getting a UPS for the computer and a good antivirus program that updates itself independent of Windows (and not the"free" stuff and definitely not Norton 😁)
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Somethings to think about... what about power outages ? Do you have a UPS on the computer ? If there is a storm when the power goes out you will loose data. What about rebooting when software hangs ? Shutting down updates won't eliminate lost data when the above situations happen. It will only reduce the possibility. You will need to accept the fact that in your configuration you
will occasionally lose data and at the wrong time. Delaying updates to a specific time and date will give you the ability to control when updates are applied and how much data you want to lose. If you do shut down all updates I recommend getting a UPS for the computer and a good antivirus program that updates itself independent of Windows (and not the"free" stuff and definitely not Norton 😁)
food for thought....... :shock: I may have something I can repurpose...
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The GW1000 does not have ability to store data. You lose anything not recorded with your weather program when it is running.
I feared as much. If data is being uploaded to ecowitt or whatever can it be downloaded again to fill in the blank or would I need another pc running to take over data collection? These win10 updates can take hours, especially the 'feature' updates or does it matter if there is a bit of a gap? Do the websites keep all the data uploaded or just summaries?
So, lets work through this.
The GW1000 is powered by USB so plenty of options to power via a power bank etc to ensure that should the power drop you keep the reception of sensor data.
If you are uploading to the Internet then you need to consider power for routers/modems etc (UPS etc)
However for local logging I recommend that you look at a Pi. I use a Pi 3b running CumulusMx as my local logger and that too being USB powered can be managed at low cost and therefore you can guarantee to keep logging even with no power assuming you still have your Wifi functioning. Using a Pi means that you can run more or less permanently and not worry about the lengthy monthly updates of Win10
The GW1000 is simply a receiver and offers the data via its API. It does not store in any way and is essentially a realtime device. This is why you want a logger on something like a Pi to take a drum beat recording of sensor data.
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Using a Pi adds in one small weakness....the SD card. I have had one corrupt for no apparent reason. While this does side step the PITA updates from M$ there is still some risk of data loss. A UPS is still recommended.
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A Pi with data on the SD card is not a reliable solution. But a Pi with a USB hard drive is a more reliable solution (spinning HD or SSD). There is a bit more work to get the Pi to boot that has the OS on USB HD, but you can also just make it simple and leave the OS on the SD and then configure data to be saved to the USB HD. Regardless having data in one place is never a good strategy. For that reason you can even decide to leave the Pi with everything on the SD and then just add a backup strategy.
There are countless options for software backup. But I'll mention what I'm using... I've been using Syncrify for software backup. While not the simplest backup to configure (it is simple to use after it is configured though) it offers incredible remote backup solution capabilities (built on top of rsync). It is free software for personal use (runs on Windows, Linux, and Mac) for multiple computers of the same user, or you can buy the professional version of the software license for one time $50 (for multiple computers of the same user) and then you'll gain file versioning capabilities. With this software you can backup locally or to a remote location (your own server or cloud solutions). It is incredible is that you can backup from Linux to Windows or the other way around or even throw in Mac into the mix (or you can backup locally too). The server and the clients can be any OS. You can place a Pi with your backup drive at a family or friend's house and backup over the Internet over to it. It does HTTPS connection for backup with free Let's Encrypt SLL and also does 128 bit AES file encryption with your own key. It backs up not just flat files at the bit level (open files too) but it also has plug-ins for bare metal, mySQL, MS SQL, and MS Exchange. Very resource conservative for server and client and all clients managed centrally from the backup server. A few years ago CrashPlan was a popular option for personal use (I used it for years), you could even use the software for free to your own server. When CrashPlan Home went away I switched to Syncrify and in the years since the Syncrify solution has continued to evolve and become fully packed with more and more features.
If you are using Syncrify please let me know. I'd like to hear if anyone else is using it.
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Yep, I run my important Pi's on small (128GB) USB 3.0 SSD drives which can be had for around £20 or less. The Pi 4 makes booting from SSD easy, though I also run a 3b as a boot from disk.
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It would be nice if his data from the GW1000 could be replicated between 2 Pi's running the same software in parallel. That way if one died or needed work the other Pi would still record the data. However, he is running a PC so to minimize data loss either run it on a laptop ( the battery would protect against power outages ) or a pc with a UPS. Windows update would have to be shut off which I hear will not be possible in the future. Or....setup a linux system (Ubuntu, Windows FX, Mint) because updates are slipstreamed in . However, that limits the weather software. There will still be a risk of losing data but the best that can be done is to minimize it. (Or save up for a Davis with logger).
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The GW1000 does not have ability to store data. You lose anything not recorded with your weather program when it is running.
I feared as much. If data is being uploaded to ecowitt or whatever can it be downloaded again to fill in the blank or would I need another pc running to take over data collection? These win10 updates can take hours, especially the 'feature' updates or does it matter if there is a bit of a gap? Do the websites keep all the data uploaded or just summaries?
So, lets work through this.
The GW1000 is powered by USB so plenty of options to power via a power bank etc to ensure that should the power drop you keep the reception of sensor data.
If you are uploading to the Internet then you need to consider power for routers/modems etc (UPS etc)
However for local logging I recommend that you look at a Pi. I use a Pi 3b running CumulusMx as my local logger and that too being USB powered can be managed at low cost and therefore you can guarantee to keep logging even with no power assuming you still have your Wifi functioning. Using a Pi means that you can run more or less permanently and not worry about the lengthy monthly updates of Win10
The GW1000 is simply a receiver and offers the data via its API. It does not store in any way and is essentially a realtime device. This is why you want a logger on something like a Pi to take a drum beat recording of sensor data.
Interesting solution but it seems a bit OTT, does give me.an excuse for getting another computer to play with though!
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It would be nice if his data from the GW1000 could be replicated between 2 Pi's running the same software in parallel. That way if one died or needed work the other Pi would still record the data. However, he is running a PC so to minimize data loss either run it on a laptop ( the battery would protect against power outages ) or a pc with a UPS. Windows update would have to be shut off which I hear will not be possible in the future. Or....setup a linux system (Ubuntu, Windows FX, Mint) because updates are slipstreamed in . However, that limits the weather software. There will still be a risk of losing data but the best that can be done is to minimize it. (Or save up for a Davis with logger).
I think if I can delay updates on one I could switch computers, I just need to be organised! Presumably you can edit data within cumulus to remove duplication?
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The GW1000 does not have ability to store data. You lose anything not recorded with your weather program when it is running.
I feared as much. If data is being uploaded to ecowitt or whatever can it be downloaded again to fill in the blank or would I need another pc running to take over data collection? These win10 updates can take hours, especially the 'feature' updates or does it matter if there is a bit of a gap? Do the websites keep all the data uploaded or just summaries?
So, lets work through this.
The GW1000 is powered by USB so plenty of options to power via a power bank etc to ensure that should the power drop you keep the reception of sensor data.
If you are uploading to the Internet then you need to consider power for routers/modems etc (UPS etc)
However for local logging I recommend that you look at a Pi. I use a Pi 3b running CumulusMx as my local logger and that too being USB powered can be managed at low cost and therefore you can guarantee to keep logging even with no power assuming you still have your Wifi functioning. Using a Pi means that you can run more or less permanently and not worry about the lengthy monthly updates of Win10
The GW1000 is simply a receiver and offers the data via its API. It does not store in any way and is essentially a realtime device. This is why you want a logger on something like a Pi to take a drum beat recording of sensor data.
thanks for the logical step through. At the end of the day my data can have gaps, it's not the end of the world, but I want to minimise them.
Power cuts do happen in this part of the world and my WiFi router would be a casualty anyway unless that goes on a UPS as well. The point about USB power is well made and should be easy to sort out with a UPS
The more likely event is the Win10 updates, so that is what I need to manage, probably by delaying updates on the usual computer and running another in parallel and then switching
Is it possible to edit data sets in cumulus? I assume it's some form of database so presumably I could combine and then purge duplicate data to produce one 'true' set of data from two parallel databases?
I am not familiar with cumulus yet ( or any alternative) so this may be a rather naive question!
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Cumulus stores its data in plain text CSV files. It does have built-in editors, but you can also edit externally in a good text editor - avoid Notepad! ;)
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Cumulus stores its data in plain text CSV files. It does have built-in editors, but you can also edit externally in a good text editor - avoid Notepad! ;)
thanks, CSV is fine
Are there any examples of the CSV files on your site?
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Cumulus stores its data in plain text CSV files. It does have built-in editors, but you can also edit externally in a good text editor - avoid Notepad! ;)
thanks, CSV is fine
Are there any examples of the CSV files on your site?
No, I use a combination of PHP variable files created by Cumulus and a MySQL database that Cumulus can optionally populate in addition to the CSV files. The file formats are documented in the Wiki - https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Category:Cumulus_Files
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Cumulus stores its data in plain text CSV files. It does have built-in editors, but you can also edit externally in a good text editor - avoid Notepad! ;)
thanks, CSV is fine
Are there any examples of the CSV files on your site?
No, I use a combination of PHP variable files created by Cumulus and a MySQL database that Cumulus can optionally populate in addition to the CSV files. The file formats are documented in the Wiki - https://cumuluswiki.org/a/Category:Cumulus_Files
thanks
i need to do some studying!
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I don't see why Windows updates is an issue. Make the program run as a service and it will run without anyone logged in. When the update finishes, it reboots and the services all start.
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I don't see why Windows updates is an issue. Make the program run as a service and it will run without anyone logged in. When the update finishes, it reboots and the services all start.
how do you make a program run as a service? If you do that is it available as normal after log in?
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I don't see why Windows updates is an issue. Make the program run as a service and it will run without anyone logged in. When the update finishes, it reboots and the services all start.
how do you make a program run as a service? If you do that is it available as normal after log in?
Log in ? You have to log in after a reboot? Aren't you using a local account with no password ? Or do you have a security issue/concern ?
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I don't see why Windows updates is an issue. Make the program run as a service and it will run without anyone logged in. When the update finishes, it reboots and the services all start.
how do you make a program run as a service? If you do that is it available as normal after log in?
Log in ? You have to log in after a reboot? Aren't you using a local account with no password ? Or do you have a security issue/concern ?
I don't have anything yet! I have a pc that can be used currently doing something else, so I can move that onto this task and run off a local account, presumably I don't need to worry about Win10 updates as long as it restarts successfully ( accepting there is downtime during the reboot/configure process)
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I don't see why Windows updates is an issue. Make the program run as a service and it will run without anyone logged in. When the update finishes, it reboots and the services all start.
how do you make a program run as a service? If you do that is it available as normal after log in?
EDIT: The following link is outdated. See follow-up post by mcrossley for setting up Cumulus MX as a service
Tips on running Cumulus MX as a service:
https://cumulus.hosiene.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=18503
The "program" will be available to the local computer once you log in using your browser...or via remote computer if you enable that feature whenever...even without logging in on the server computer.
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I don't see why Windows updates is an issue. Make the program run as a service and it will run without anyone logged in. When the update finishes, it reboots and the services all start.
how do you make a program run as a service? If you do that is it available as normal after log in?
Tips on running Cumulus MX as a service:
https://cumulus.hosiene.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=18503
The "program" will be available to the local computer once you log in using your browser...or via remote computer if you enable that feature whenever...even without logging in on the server computer.
thanks very much. Learning so much and the station hasn't arrived yet!!
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You just run CMX with the -install parameter and it will set itself up as a service that autostarts on boot. And -uninstall removes it again, doh! :lol:
https://cumulus.hosiene.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=145483#p145483
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You just run CMX with the -install parameter and it will set itself up as a service that autostarts on boot. And -uninstall removes it again, doh! :lol:
https://cumulus.hosiene.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=145483#p145483
thanks for the information!
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Excitement growing here. Mast arrived yesterday and the posts are ready
I am going for 20 feet in height for the anemometer and today's task is to get a more accurate height for the highest trees. Time for some trigonometry!
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The trouble with trees is they will insist on growing! :lol:
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The trouble with trees is they will insist on growing! :lol:
So true, luckily as far as I can see this one has reached its natural limit!
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The trouble with trees is they will insist on growing! :lol:
So true, luckily as far as I can see this one has reached its natural limit!
the answer was 60-70 feet so my planned site seems to be 2x that distance and OK
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Now on its way via FedEx, delivery forecast 6 Nov
Hopefully I get to install and play during lockdown!
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Looking forward to seeing how you get on. :grin: I'm on the North coast of Cornwall too. I'm on a headland and at just about at the highest and most exposed point. Our biggest winds here are the West and SW storms and 60-70 MPH + is quite common in the Winter. My current WS (Maplins N23DQ/ Ambient WS-1001 clone) just hasn't been up to the job, some of it is still just about working but I will change it eventually for an ecowitt combo. So if yours doesn't blow down or drown under the usual torrents of rain I will be probably be impressed enough to buy!
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Looking forward to seeing how you get on. :grin: I'm on the North coast of Cornwall too. I'm on a headland and at just about at the highest and most exposed point. Our biggest winds here are the West and SW storms and 60-70 MPH + is quite common in the Winter. My current WS (Maplins N23DQ/ Ambient WS-1001 clone) just hasn't been up to the job, some of it is still just about working but I will change it eventually for an ecowitt combo. So if yours doesn't blow down or drown under the usual torrents of rain I will be probably be impressed enough to buy!
Hopefully mine will survive!!
We get a bit of shelter as we are about 2 miles inland (near Scorrier)
I deliberately went for a separated system as I did not expect a combined sensor head to survive long, at least I will only need to replace one bit at a time!
Delivery date has been adjusted to 10 Nov now....I'll have to be patient
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Arrived today, woohoo [tup]! One day early - thanks FedEx =D>
Busy for next few days so I'll have to contain myself #-o
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In case anyone is interested I thought I'd report on how my installation went
OK, here we go
Station arrived in a sturdy box secured with loads of parcel tape [tup]
Components inside were individually wrapped and then secured in transit by bubble wrap and foam packaging; it was all very secure and didn’t rattle in transit
Delivery was by FedEx, initial forecast date was only 4 days which seemed very quick, after a day or so it changed to 9 days from collection date in Shenzen and was actually delivered on the 8th day
As as an aside I discovered that FedEx had added an advancement fee to the duty/VAT charge that I was expecting :shock: I challenged this and they refunded it. I understand this is common practice by FedEx and something worth watching out for if you order kit from outside the EU.
I started with the GW1000 gateway unit which plugged into a USB port on my PC. Very straight-forward once I realise which way up to put it in! I then downloaded the WS view app to configure it, again very straightforward, largely automatic
I sorted out the pressure settings following the guidance in the GW1002 pdf manual that Lucy sent me. This was logical and stepped me through the process easily. Interestingly I see that the step by step instructions have been replaced in current versions of the GW1002 and 1000 manuals by a link to the ecowitt site which seems to be broken. If anyone wants them I can forward.
I then put batteries into the sensors to make sure they worked and communicated with the gateway. No issues except they really like brand new batteries!
The next day I placed the sensors in their planned positions and hit a problem. Although they seemed to be communicating OK the signal strength indicated on the WS View app was very low. Obviously I don’t want problems after the install so I decided to move the gateway unit. It is now located in our conservatory with direct view to all sensors (through glass!), signal strength back up to max. This means the gateway unit will be separated and I need to sort out a separate UPS solution, probably one of the mini UPS you can get that look like phone power banks.
I have sourced a UPS for the PC and WiFi router, hopefully I will collect and install next week. Until that is sorted I wont start data collection on cumulus, we also have a planned power outage on the 17th by the power company for routine engineering work so hopefully all will be finalised the following weekend
Next to the install, next post
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On to the installation
Rain gauge is straightforward a handy piece of tubular galvanised steel with the gauge on top - the bubble level made it straightforward to get it vertical. Location is unsheltered, nearest tree is 20-30 feet away and everything in the veggie patch is not too tall, although I will need to trim back our raspberry plants!
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The anemometer is attached to a 20ft antenna pole which in turn is attached to two 6ft pieces of 3x3 (parts of a pergola that didn’t survive last winter). The two pieces of 3x3 are bolted together top and bottom. I remove the top bolt to allow the bottom one to be used as a hinge and permit access to the top of the mast. The pole is in a 2’ 6” hole with 4 inches of gravel and then two bags of postcrete with the rest of the hole backfilled with soil.
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A few days after installation I noticed the wind direction was completely different to other nearby stations. Popping out I saw that the whole anemometer body was facing the wrong way. I realised that it had rotated on the antenna mast and was acting as a wind vane. The mast is made of 5 foot swaged sections and it is possible to rotate sections, although I had thought they were sufficiently tight. The bottom two are clamped so it was the top two that were an issue.
Down came the mast!
As I'd hoped the hinge arrangement worked well, and as a temporary fix I duct taped the joints to stop the mast sections turning (after I had realigned the anemometer body to North again!). I'll see how that goes, it's good quality tape so should survive a Cornish winter. Maybe I'll try clamping the joints in due course?
Latest weather has seen the top wobbling a bit, I was hoping I wouldn't need stays, we'll have to see
Finally. the outside temp/humidity sensor is on the north side of our house. Its a very sheltered position, even a northerly wind is screened by our plants and hedging and it is never in direct sunlight. Although I know the radiation shield has few fans it is a convenient stop-gap until I can afford or make a better one and I need to mount it and protect it with something. Quite intrigued by the discussions on a coaxial DIY radiation shield on another thread so I may give that a go.
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Anyway all now up and running and live on Ecowitt.net, WU and WOW, links below!
Thanks to everyone’s suggestions , help and encouragement
Now I start on improvements and upgrades…..!
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Just a thought - this may now be in the wrong part of the forum!!
Mods - please move as appropriate!!
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Seems fine to me. Its a continuation of how things progressed. Congrats. Very nice.
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Missed your update. All looks very good! What was the total cost including all taxes if you don't mind my asking? I think exactly how much customs charge seems to be a bit of a lottery.
Sure is wet and windy here at the moment. I had a 60 mph gusts recorded. There is a Met Office weather warning issued for rain/flooding from tomorrow and including Thursday to give your rain gauge a full work out. :-)
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Missed your update. All looks very good! What was the total cost including all taxes if you don't mind my asking? I think exactly how much customs charge seems to be a bit of a lottery.
Sure is wet and windy here at the moment. I had a 60 mph gusts recorded. There is a Met Office weather warning issued for rain/flooding from tomorrow and including Thursday to give your rain gauge a full work out. :-)
Thanks
Yes all seems good and the rain gauge is certainly getting tested! I think I may need to stay the anemometer mast as it does wobble a bit in relatively light winds
Total cost including shipping (by FEDEX) for GW1002 (WS68/WH40/WH32/GW1000) + RS0001 radIation shield was USD280
Import tax/duty was £7.71 although FEDEX tried to add an 'advancement fee' of £12 which I successfully challenged
Hope this helps