Author Topic: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.  (Read 58168 times)

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Offline CW2274

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #850 on: July 04, 2020, 05:08:58 PM »
I'm extremely disappointed that politicians have the legal power to remove freedoms and institute restrictions based on fear and hysteria.
They DON'T. The Constitution is merely a "suggestion" to many of our elected officials. Get that part everyone....elected.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #851 on: July 04, 2020, 05:12:13 PM »
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.
Yep, NBC news  :lol:.  I like the way they slant the "news"
MSM could be one million percent right and I still wouldn't trust one thing that comes outta all their pie-holes combined.

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #852 on: July 04, 2020, 07:29:33 PM »
So what is your alternative to "living with the virus"?
Until Bunty or someone answers the question, I can think of only a couple of alternatives: (1) find a cure, or eradicate it as one country has claimed to do, (2) or not live.

I can't see the first one happening in the immediate future, though I hope it does eventually.  And to lend balance to what NBC expects Trump to say, Trump's opponent, Biden, has already expressed his opposition to a cure.
Quote
We have to take care of the cure. That will make the problem worse, no matter what.
(From Biden's interview on ABC's "The View").

In the same interview, Biden also went on to address this question:
Will the places with the less diagnosed and claimed cases now suffer with less numbers over a longer period of time, or maybe peak some time later? 
Quote
We have to take care of the cure. That will make the problem worse, no matter what.  No matter what. We know what has to be done. We know you have to — you’re tired of hearing the phrase, you got to flatten that curve where it’s going up like this, people getting it, and then it comes down.
So Biden wants the curve to be flattened so that the number of cases will remain constant and won't go down.

So Trump's plan is reportedly to "live with the virus".  Biden has indicated that he wishes to avoid a cure and to keep the numbers of infection as constant as possible.

I'm not commenting on which position is better, or even if they're really that much different.  I just thought that as Trump is continually being attacked, it would be fair and balanced to compare the position of his opposition.  :-)

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #853 on: July 04, 2020, 07:43:31 PM »
Speaking of statistics, as of June 24 New York had 161 deaths per 100,000 people.  Wyoming has 3 deaths per 100,000.  The Wyoming governor has requested that we start wearing masks like they do in NY.

Offline Jai Soone

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #854 on: July 04, 2020, 08:24:18 PM »
My understanding is that it can take up two weeks to develop symptoms if you are ever going to, then maybe a week to get sick enough to go to the hospital, and then maybe another week to croak. Deaths are not what you call a leading indicator for this virus. Time will tell.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #855 on: July 06, 2020, 05:37:14 PM »
Hospitalisation rate graph in Texas

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #856 on: July 06, 2020, 06:47:11 PM »
Hospitalisation rate graph in Texas
What's your point?

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #857 on: July 06, 2020, 06:56:59 PM »
This is from khou.com Jul 01:
Quote

Texas has been hit particularly hard by COVID-19.

Doctors say the numbers are moving in the wrong direction – except when it comes to deaths.

The death rate been declining statewide for the last month.

Data from Texas Health and Human Services showed the death rate in Texas peaked on May 26 at 2.7%.

“Our case fatality rate here in Harris County is a little over 1%, which is lower even than the rest of the state which is 1.6% as of today,” said Shreela Sharma, professor of epidemiology with UTHealth School of Public Health.
So obviously some graph found from who-knows-where by someone trying to stir the pot doesn't tell the whole story. 

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #858 on: July 06, 2020, 07:33:06 PM »
I also wonder how much hospitalization will go up once "elective" procedures are again allowed, considering how they must have been piling up, and how many more severe cases of other diseases there will be as people have avoided going to the hospital, and what the death rate from them will be?

I'm sure whatever the true figures are, people will play junior-scientist with them to prove their points.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #859 on: July 06, 2020, 08:28:42 PM »
Trolls will be trolls and the MSM will be the MSM. If as much energy was put into learning how to truly deal with our country's problems, present dilemmas, and stigma's as is stirring crap up for PURE political gain, I imagine things might be a little more "brighter".
Whatta an absolute, utter sad joke our society is becoming here. :sad:

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #860 on: July 06, 2020, 08:48:33 PM »
Yep, but really being an optimist (no matter how it may appear) I keep thinking people will wake up and see what's going on.  I know a few have.  [tup]

Offline CW2274

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #861 on: July 06, 2020, 08:57:02 PM »
Yep, but really being an optimist (no matter how it may appear) I keep thinking people will wake up and see what's going on.  I know a few have.  [tup]
I personally will do whatever in my power to quash the attempted destruction of the greatest country on earth.


Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #863 on: July 07, 2020, 02:36:02 AM »
https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations/
So again, what is your point?  And how does this hospital compare to other hospitals?  What is the cause of the increase?  What does all this mean long term?  Why is the death rate reportedly down?  Why not provide some context?

Wasn't it predicted infections would go up when the society started opening?  If so, I don't see why we need to act surprised, or need to place blame.  What was the alternative, not opening up society and the economy?  How many people in the long term would that kill?

I would think some would be happy with the news that deaths from the virus are down, and maybe even take that as a good sign.

Offline Bunty

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #864 on: July 07, 2020, 03:47:31 AM »
Mask wear to be required in Stillwater even though only 2 covid patients in Stillwater Regional Hospital.  But total cases had risen to 378 as of Monday.  Statewide, Oklahoma had 478 new cases for the most ever reported on a Monday.

Stillwater City Council advances mask ordinance for residents

After receiving hundred of emails, social media messages and phone calls, and hearing from 20 speakers during their live meeting, the members of the Stillwater City Council voted unanimously Monday to advance what may be the first ordinance in Oklahoma requiring people to wear face coverings in public.

The ordinance is supported by Oklahoma State University and Stillwater Public Schools, whose representatives appeared to express that support.

Norman Mayor Breea Clark, who appeared via Zoom to collect on a bet she made with Mayor Will Joyce over census response rates, said the Norman City Council will be considering a similar ordinance on Tuesday.

Stillwater’s ordinance will go to second reading at a time that has yet to be announced, with some changes to its original language. They include an exemption for pre-school age children and softened language regarding the responsibilities businesses have under the ordinance.

Although most of the councilors expressed a desire for more clarity in the language and several speakers asked that it be given more “teeth,” City Attorney John Dorman said it isn’t necessary to include a lot of specific penalties in the new ordinance because those are already provided in other ordinances already on the books.

The revised language the councilors discussed, at Joyce’s urging, includes changes to the phrasing regarding some issues from “shall” to “may,” to provide flexibility.

For example, the amended ordinance will require businesses to post signs – which the City of Stillwater will provide – informing people they are required to wear face coverings in the businesses. They have the option of asking people who refuse to wear face coverings to leave and having them charged with trespassing if they refuse, but the business owners won’t face a penalty for not confronting people who refuse unless their business becomes a consistent problem and begins to fall under nuisance or public health ordinances.

Business owner Austin Ray expressed concern about his employees being on the front line, charged with enforcing the ordinance and dealing with irate customers.

“… I’m not paying them to risk their safety,” he said.

The Stillwater Fraternal Order of Police also addressed the ordinance, with Miguel Najera, a former city councilor who is now a police officer, addressed the councilors and asked them to consider the ramifications for law enforcement.

Najera said the officers are not anti-mask. Most wear them regularly, and all wear them while working, as required.

The FOP argument centered on whether the ordinance is truly necessary. He said the public trusts them to enforce laws that are meaningful and have a purpose and noted that businesses already have the ability to require masks and ask people to leave if they refuse.

“The people who want to wear masks are already wearing them,” Najera said. “The people who don’t want to wear them are the ones we’ll have to deal with … the risk doesn’t outweigh the reward.”

He said the union is worried about staffing issues when the limited officers on duty are called on repeatedly to deal with mask issues.
MORE AT:  https://www.stwnewspress.com/news/local_news/early-adopter-stillwater-city-council-advances-mask-ordinance-for-residents/article_18453428-ace4-5310-9533-4a8d980ab81d.html
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 04:29:16 AM by Bunty »

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Offline Bunty

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #865 on: July 07, 2020, 04:08:32 AM »
I'm extremely disappointed that politicians have the legal power to remove freedoms and institute restrictions based on fear and hysteria.
They DON'T. The Constitution is merely a "suggestion" to many of our elected officials. Get that part everyone....elected.

Required mask wear isn't much more inconvenient or freedom robbing than making sure your private areas are covered every time you go out in public or to a store.  While they're not 100% effective, masks can prevent people from totally losing their freedom and liberty by ending up helpless in the ICU from the virus.

While young people are much less likely to die from the virus they may need months to fully recover.  Utah Jazz center Rudy Gobert, 28, was the first NBA player to report testing positive for COVID-19 back in March. Three months later, he still hasn't fully recovered.  Days before his diagnosis, Gobert had made light of the pandemic when he jokingly touched every microphone during a news conference.  He later publicly apologized and urged the public to not fall into a false sense of security like he did.  "I wish I would have taken this thing more seriously, and I hope everyone else will do so", he said.

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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #866 on: July 07, 2020, 05:26:55 AM »
Is it ever going to end?  Suppose the virus is eradicated, or a vaccine is developed, or whatever, which doesn't appear to be in the near future, people may be be so conditioned to expect their health to be protected that they'll demand masks be worn during cold and flu seasons and any and all outbreaks, which could be anywhere from Fall to Spring to all year.  Or maybe just be worn in general anyway, after all you never know where someone has been or what and who they've come into contact with. All pandemics start somewhere.

I think people have already been developing weak immune systems from the over use of antibacterial products and stuff from way before this virus ever started.  It's probably just going to get worse.

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #867 on: July 07, 2020, 03:18:37 PM »
I found it kind of interesting:

The history of mask wearing during pandemics.  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/reference/european-history/plague-doctors-beaked-masks-coronavirus/

Quote
During the 17th-century European plague, physicians wore beaked masks, leather gloves, and long coats in an attempt to fend off the disease.
Quote
Plague doctors filled their masks with theriac, a compound of more than 55 herbs and other components like viper flesh powder, cinnamon, myrrh, and honey. De Lorme thought the beak shape of the mask would give the air sufficient time to be suffused by the protective herbs before it hit plague doctors’ nostrils and lungs.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor_costume)

So I guess that was Epidemiology 101 of the day.  Mask wearing has a proud history.  Now off I go to fill my mask with various herbs (I'll keep it legal), snake skins, and such. :-)  (Though actually, if two layers of cloth provide more protection than one, I would think another layer of 55 herbs and such should provide that much more.  Maybe add some more mint for freshness too.)

Offline Bunty

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #868 on: July 07, 2020, 03:19:17 PM »
Oh, oh, Tulsa, where Trump was on June 20, has reclaimed the lead over OKC in having most number of cases, 2,709 to 2690.
So how statistically significant is this, and with what basis do they arrive at those figures?  And what will the long term effects be for Tulsa as compared to OKC?  Will the places with the less diagnosed and claimed cases now suffer with less numbers over a longer period of time, or maybe peak some time later?  How many people from OKC went to see Trump in Tulsa?

I see that as a big part of the problem; statistics will be (mis)used and skewed to make virtually any point you want, and I see very little context with the numbers thrown about.  Other than to use them to attack people that they seemingly have an irrational hatred for.

But I'm sure people can take great pleasure in thinking that the spike (if there is one) in cases are Trump supporters who deserve it, after all it was their choice to accept the risk and get on with their lives.  :-P
Trump is to deliver a message next week concerning how we need to learn to live with the virus. It will be interesting to see what he means,
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/we-need-live-it-white-house-readies-new-message-nation-n1232884
I think it's fairly clear that whatever he means, you and NBC have already formed your opinions of it.

So what is your alternative to "living with the virus"?

OKC now has slightly more positive cases than Tulsa.  But Tulsa can NOT get consolation from that.  Thanks to the  population in Tulsa being somewhat smaller than OKC, the Tulsa infection rate is 60% worse.  I would sooner it be the infection rate be much lower,  so as to suggest indoor gatherings in large facilities are safe.  But as a result, I still don't know if the Philadelphia Orchestra will perform as scheduled at the McKnight Center in Stillwater in September to kick off a new season. I am looking forward to going to it, but won't be shocked if it's canceled.

The alternative is to better accept mask wear when in public.  It's better than going back to closing stores.

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Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #869 on: July 07, 2020, 04:02:54 PM »

OKC now has slightly more positive cases than Tulsa.  But Tulsa can NOT get consolation from that.  Thanks to the  population in Tulsa being somewhat smaller than OKC, the Tulsa infection rate is 60% worse.  I would sooner it be the infection rate be much lower,  so as to suggest indoor gatherings in large facilities are safe.  But as a result, I still don't know if the Philadelphia Orchestra will perform as scheduled at the McKnight Center in Stillwater in September to kick off a new season. I am looking forward to going to it, but won't be shocked if it's canceled.

The alternative is to better accept mask wear when in public.  It's better than going back to closing stores.
Do you know what the infection rate of Tulsa vs OKC two or three weeks ago for a comparison?  I think that would be a start to get some ideas, but there would still be a lot of other variables (i.e. how much testing is done in Tulsa compared to OKC, how many people traveled from OKC to Tulsa, what percentage of the population of each attended the rally or other large gatherings, etc.).  Unfortunately, due to the state of the media and politics involved, I don't know if accurate and meaningful figures are readily available, if available at all.

Quote
The alternative is to better accept mask wear when in public.
Fair enough.  Yet I would think that the decision to go out in public, whether it means wearing a mask or not, as part of "living with it".  Going and watching a live orchestra is living, even if you wear a mask.  If you have to wear a suit and tie...well, I'm not sure.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #870 on: July 07, 2020, 05:17:22 PM »
Quote
Quote from: waiukuweather on Yesterday at 09:43:08 PM
https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations/
So again, what is your point?  And how does this hospital compare to other hospitals?

i see this is being repeated in other states now too (hospitlisation rates going up) and I see the deaths in the last 24 hours reported for the USA is gone up as well
not good

Offline SnowHiker

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #871 on: July 07, 2020, 05:19:47 PM »
i see this is being repeated in other states now too (hospitlisation rates going up) and I see the deaths in the last 24 hours reported for the USA is gone up as well
not good
Thanks for pointing that out.  Very helpful.

Offline Bunty

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #872 on: July 09, 2020, 02:42:48 AM »
On Tuesday, Oklahoma set a new daily high of positive cases with 856.

This week paid contact tracers and the Oklahoma City County Health Department affirmed that the virus spread is occurring from the following: Bars, Weddings, Gyms, Funerals, Church Activities, Family Gatherings and Other Small Gatherings.  No mention of the Trump Rally in Tulsa on June 20. 

Also the OKC mayor and the director of the OCCHD both stated that protests in OKC were not a cause of the current spike.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 02:52:38 AM by Bunty »

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Offline Bunty

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #873 on: July 10, 2020, 04:44:02 PM »
On Thursday evening, the Stillwater City Council approved a revised face-covering ordinance for public areas that will go in effect Saturday.  It was passed unanimously, 5-0. The councilors heard from about 20 speakers during the public comment portion of the meeting, with a strong contingent of residents who said they object to the ordinance because they believe it violates their personal freedom. One man against the ordinance wrapped up by including he would no longer shop at Stillwater businesses.  He then removed his masked and returned to his chair.  The mayor told him he had to put his mask back on or leave.  After hesitating, two cops walked up to him.  He got up and left, along with his masked little boy.  Video of him begins at 1:01:10 below.  Also two photos of the incident below.  https://www.stwnewspress.com/covid-19/stillwater-city-council-passes-face-covering-ordinance/article_3ee9cde4-c249-11ea-9397-9f38f0ed0170.html 

Unfortunately,  Stillwater recently had its first death from covid.  He was a 79 year old man who had been hospitalized in ICU for two weeks.  As of Friday, Stillwater had 407 positive cases with 343 recoverd.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtqTT6wgBmw[/youtube]


« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 09:24:59 PM by Bunty »

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Offline chief-david

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Re: Hope everyone is ok...Wash your hands.
« Reply #874 on: July 10, 2020, 05:22:03 PM »
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 05:49:35 PM by chief-david »



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