Author Topic: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?  (Read 3355 times)

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Offline tedroche

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De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« on: December 11, 2021, 02:31:17 PM »
In New Hampshire, we're finally seeing some measurable snow, a bit late for us. Earlier this week, I cleaned an inch or two of rain-soaked snow off the funnel of my WH-40 rain gauge, but it appears that some had dripped into the tipping-spoon and frozen. This morning we had heavy freezing rain, but the gauge just showed a single blip. I went out to check on the gauge and found the tipping spoon had tipped, but the contents were frozen solid, so the spoon stayed tipped down.

(Pretty good view of the mechanism at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wlr-IlPb0g, not affiliated with that video)

With big clumsy frozen fingers, I managed to dig the iceberg out and the gauge reported the rest of the storm fine.

Has anyone got any suggestions on clever ways to:

1. water-proof the spoon (wax, maybe?) and/or
2. a good way to clear the spoon? I didn't want to use hot water or lock de-icer/alcohol out of concern I'd damage the plastic.

Ideas welcomed.
 
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Offline Jeje2

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2021, 03:09:12 PM »
I live in southern Finland and just basic light snow fall while temperature below zero has not shown at all on the WH-40 - which of course does not present the real picture.
So how to get the WH-40 to measure even snowfall would be of interest...
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Offline Rover1822

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2021, 03:12:23 PM »
unfortunately, this is the bane of tipping bucket rain gauges. Jokingly , move further south. They really don't do well with freezing rain or snow. And most things one might think of doing to prevent it would lead to inaccurate results anyway.

Depending on the frequency of the associated lower temp issues ( freezing rain , snow) etc, you might get away with the the hot water to get it operational, but that also will make your readings off. Quite frankly, it is something to live with, I hate to say. I definitely would not force the bucket or use mechanical cleaning methods on it during these periods.

 


 
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Offline havtrail

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2021, 03:25:28 PM »
That's why it's called a rain gauge, not a precipitation gauge.

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Offline alanb

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2021, 03:30:57 PM »
This will be my first winter with my WS-2000 arrray, and I have been thinking about the best way to handle the rain funnel. Since you can't get precip. readings in cold weather anyway, I wonder if it would be a good idea to just zip tie a plastic bag over the funnel and keep the snow/ice out.
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Offline Gyvate

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2021, 05:06:39 PM »
I have put a 15 W terrarium heating cable/coil inside the rain gauge of my WH65 array (that's the outdoor array which comes with a WS-2000) and also the probe of a thermostat. When the temperature measured by the thermostat goes below 0°C/32°F the heating coil gets powered until the probe reports a temperature of +3°C. Then it switches off. This is enough to keep the spoon free from freezing and even makes snow in the funnel melt while it is too little to have an impact of the readings of the temperature sensor located under the rain gauge. It has been working properly already through two winter periods.
The coil was wound around and along the inside wall of the rain gauge making sure it does not keep the spoon from tilting.

There are more sophisticated solutions using some flat foaming material and fixing the coil on it with some silicone - but for me this simple approach worked out well.

I got inspired by an approach from a German weather enthusiast who built something similar for his Davis Vantage station.
Here is the link - even if you don't know German, the pictures alone speak for themselves.
He was using the same heating coil for terrariums.
https://www.nimmervoll.org/wetter/station/heizung/heizung.html

The approach I used for the WH65 should also work for the WH40.
I used this product: https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Reptile-Cable-11-5-Feet/dp/B001LQUZAM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=22VZ6ZHEUJ8FA&keywords=terrarium+heating+cable&qid=1639260604&sprefix=terrarium+heating+c%2Caps%2C278&sr=8-1
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 05:10:54 PM by Gyvate »
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Offline Bashy

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2021, 07:59:23 PM »
I added something much cruder to my davis bucket, 1st off cut a strip of bubble wrap to fit inside the bucket perfectly, it has to be cut on an angle to marry up as a cone shape, i then covered both sides in extra strong foil (aluminium), that fits perfectly on the inside of the bucket wall, that's the insulation so that it doesn't lose too much heat.

I then wired up a small 12v bulb holder with a 10w (i think, could only be a 5w) bulb and tied it next to the tipper and then wired that to a temp control board set to <3C turns on the bulb, this is on 24/7 and is good enough to melt what little snow i have here in the UK, it did handle about 6" a couple of years back with no problems, it might be a little slower than the Davis bucket warmer but its by far cheaper an lower running costs, its been running since 2017 and changed the bulb once i think and that was last year.

YMMV as you may need to change the bulb to a higher wattage so you would need to make sure your 12v PSU, bulb holder and wiring can handle the higher wattage

Food for thought...
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 08:03:02 PM by Bashy »
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Offline tedroche

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2021, 09:37:56 PM »
That's why it's called a rain gauge, not a precipitation gauge.

Yup. That's why I've got a CoCoRaHS manual rain gauge and snowboard set up for the seriously frozen precipitation NH is famous for. I'll likely just throw an old coffee can lid on the WH-40 rain funnel when there's snow in the forecast. Folks on this forum are far more resourceful and experienced than this noobie and wondered if there was trick to it.

Next time I have a frozen mess to contend with, I'll try removing the funnel and pour warm water on the spoon, while holding it in place to keep it from tipping. That ought to loosen the blob of ice and I can scoop it out and dry off the spoon with a rag without letting the spoon tip.
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Offline tedroche

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2021, 09:51:33 PM »
YMMV as you may need to change the bulb to a higher wattage so you would need to make sure your 12v PSU, bulb holder and wiring can handle the higher wattage

I neglected to mention that the weather sensors are out in a field, some 20 meters from the nearest building with no nearby power source and running a cable might not be acceptable. In New Hampshire, I've seen temperatures of -33℉/-36℃ and heating over the winter on the off-chance there's rain seems a bit wasteful. I think I'll likely retire the rain-rate reporting for the season, and remember to do a little preventative maintenance in advance when rain's expected.
   
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Offline Bashy

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2021, 08:27:46 AM »
YMMV as you may need to change the bulb to a higher wattage so you would need to make sure your 12v PSU, bulb holder and wiring can handle the higher wattage

I neglected to mention that the weather sensors are out in a field, some 20 meters from the nearest building with no nearby power source and running a cable might not be acceptable. In New Hampshire, I've seen temperatures of -33℉/-36℃ and heating over the winter on the off-chance there's rain seems a bit wasteful. I think I'll likely retire the rain-rate reporting for the season, and remember to do a little preventative maintenance in advance when rain's expected.
   

There's always a battery and solar power option, just depends how much ya like fiddling, be a nice project. I think some cap off the bucket in the cold season, so there's that
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2021, 08:30:54 AM »
I stumbled over here a while ago only giving it a passing glance. Over the last couple days there was a significant rainfall at above zero temps that never registered. After a few hours it caught the tail end of it, warm for many hours it started tipping again.

Looking at the controller products it is hard to find something CSA/CUL certified and able to control below zero. I picked up a unit a while back for grow tent that turned out to have missing features for what I needed. It’s just the item for the reptile cable.

The box will end up a bit large as it is not configured optimally but a short extension with 90 degree plug would help a lot.

https://tinyurl.com/5jfehm23

This kind of weather in the winter is becoming more of a theme. Over and Under even multiple times in a week. It is always rain season here these days. Now to pick out a box.

This should be much easier than home brewing with resistor. I have the parts but never bothered constructing.

Offline davidmc36

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2021, 09:03:02 AM »
Gathering the parts and received the heater cable today. Nice item with silicone jacket and with first 6 feet unheated it will install clean with all connections in junction box.

Offline Bashy

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2021, 07:47:06 PM »
Going the route of the heated cable idea may be a nice project for me to do because using the 12v bulb, whilst they do work ok, they are a little slow with snowmelt, but, to be honest, i am not 100% happy about running a 240v outside. I have found a 12v alternative, meant to be 15w at 10C so not sure how effective it will be at 3C and lower but, it should at least be better than the 12v bulb. I also have thought of an alternative to the PSU temp probe and that's using an elcheapo smart plug in conjunction with IFTTT, i.e. If WU temp is less than 4C Then turn on smart plug and above 4C then turn off the plug. I already use the smart plug and IFTTT for the FARS fan, if <4C turn off fan, >4C turn on fan, it serves a purpose if a little slow sometimes as its based on WU's current conditions not my own station on WU but Total cost under £40
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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2021, 08:10:21 PM »
Interesting idea. Could probably do something with Alexa and Ambient.

I think my power is pretty safe. 115 from an outdoor protected plug just 10 feet long and 6 feet above ground.

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2021, 06:35:44 AM »
I started making up the cone with the insulation blanket. It occurs to me if I want to have this running in sub-zero, but the cone with bird spikes in summer………I will run both leads through the side of the cone. Then the whole thing can be swapped out in seconds.

The critter heater and the temp probe are only 3/16” dia. so easy install.

Offline tedroche

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2021, 02:13:19 PM »
I started making up the cone with the insulation blanket.  …I will run both leads through the side of the cone. Then the whole thing can be swapped out in seconds.

The critter heater and the temp probe are only 3/16” dia. so easy install.

That sounds ideal. If you get a chance to post some pictures, I'd like to see what it looks like.
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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2021, 04:20:42 PM »
I sure will. I have one more week with my 500km commute to work then should have time to work in earnest.

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2022, 04:10:28 PM »
Finally got to doing some more on this. First shot at laying in the heater was too close together. The red mark is the end of heated portion.

The next attempt was just right.

Will have to figure out everything clear of the Teeter-Totter. [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]


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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2022, 11:06:12 PM »
Looks good, how hot does the cord get?
I will assume the probe will not be inside the bucket?
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Offline davidmc36

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2022, 04:45:54 AM »
To be sure of the spot to mark I plugged it in and held on to it. Took 30 seconds to feel heat. I never left it to see how hot. It can't be extreme as it is meant to be used close to reptiles.

The probe will be inside the cone, like factory setup.

It just occurs to me now though, if I utilize both probes and the two ports in series I should be able to have it only activated when outside temperature falls to certain threshold.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 04:48:50 AM by davidmc36 »

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2022, 05:09:21 AM »
If its inside then it will turn off prematurely, but thats just me, mine stays on when the air temp is around <1C I think it is, but also mine isn't attached to the cone like yours, mine heats the air insod the bucket, so ours works differently. I have been meaning to do similar to your idea though using soil heating cable, same idea though, only downside for me is that I would have to move the bucket as its no where near a power outlet. It was simple to run 12v than it would be to run 240v. Need to think about it some more, we don't really have a snow issue here so need to also think of its worth the hassle lol
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Offline Gyvate

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2022, 06:59:18 AM »
If its inside then it will turn off prematurely....
this can be mitigated by changing the threshold of the thermostat, can't it ?
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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2022, 07:26:50 AM »
If its inside then it will turn off prematurely....
this can be mitigated by changing the threshold of the thermostat, can't it ?

I can't think how, you really need the outside temp, not the temp inside the bucket cause as soon as it warms up a little in there it will turn off the heater
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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2022, 09:34:54 AM »
The controller can be set with hysteresis so I will be able to experiment and find what point to have it turn on and how many degrees it will rise before shutting off. It can cycle as tight as one degree F to as loose as 30 degrees.

Temp can also be calibrated as much as Plus/Minus 15 so lots of room to give it a false baseline if placement is not great. Might allow seasonal calibrate too.

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Re: De-icing a WH-40 rain gauge?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2022, 09:45:06 AM »
...., we don't really have a snow issue here .....

I never really thought about snow before. Figured its not rain so don't record it.

A close to zero winter rain event that I missed because it froze the day before made me think to do this. I caught the last half of it once enough rain thawed it out. I want to ensure the mechanism is always free for those events and melting snow will be a bonus.

I may take the tippers out of the other units in the fall too. I think filling with water and freezing may bend axels and throw rain data off.

 

anything