Topic: WS85 - a new 3-1 sensor

[olicat]

Hi!

With the firmware update v1.2.9 for the WS3800, a new WS85 sensor was mentioned for the first time. When asked, Ecowitt stated that it is a new 3-1 sensor.

The WS85 is apparently an extended WS80 (or a reduced WS90) - at least this is what the firmware for the WS3800 suggests.
As with the WS90, there is a version number: ws85_ver. This means that the firmware can probably be updated.
The key for the battery status is called wh85batt - although it is still unclear how this sensor reports back the status (volt value, 0/1 or level) and what type and number of batteries are required.
A few strings in the firmware (such as ws85.WaveRain) suggest an unusual way of measuring rain. However, this may have no significance.
There are hints for measuring the outside temperature (ws85.Temp) - but not for measuring the humidity.
Strange.
Especially as the sensor is described by Ecowitt as a 3-1 sensor:

1 Wind speed
2 Wind direction
3 Precipitation

For comparison: The WS90 is described as a 7-in-1 sensor. The 7 measured variables are:

1 Wind speed
2 Wind direction
3 Precipitation
4 Outdoor temperature
5 Air humidity
6 Solar radiation
7 UV

The WS85 therefore (apparently) lacks temperature, humidity and solar radiation/UV.
It would be possible to combine the WS85 with a WH32(-EP).
But then a light sensor would still be missing, which unfortunately is not yet available as a separate sensor.
Should this be seen as an indication that a separate light sensor will soon be available?

additional info from Ecowitt:

The ultrasonic wind sensor remain unchanged with WS90. The data frequency is 8.5s

No light/UV sensor integrated

Regards, Oliver

[Gyvate]

we have picture of the new WS85 together with a WS3800 console and a WH32 outdoor sensor
(which is needed as the outdoor T/RH sensor had to be remove due to the side mounting).
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
It's likely to have a solar panel - the top and middle portion of the WS90 housing was used.

Regarding solar and rain details are still to be found out.

it has already been put into the wiki and the details will be updatd as soon as they pop in.

[Gyvate]

I think 3-in-1 stands for
rain
wind
solar
The console picture with 1320 W/m² solar suggests that - is in verification with Ecowitt

it might just be (apart from the upgraded inner life) a WS90 without T/RH sensors and side mounting facility.

all available information has already been put into the WiKi - including an OTA upgrade info.

[Gyvate]

some more information from Ecowitt

The current design doesn’t have a solar sensor on WS85. This ws85 is a low-cost version of the ws90, and the ws90 in the future will be upgraded so that an optical rain sensor will be used for more precise rain detection.

A stand-alone solar radiation is on our R&D listing.

[giusCB]

Is the optical sensor more precise? I think it's even worse than the haptic one https://rainsensors.com/products/rg-11/rg-11-accuracy/

[Gyvate]

you don't know before having a prototype and tests - so pre-mature conclusions or judgements may not be helpful

after all, Ecowitt have shown with their WS90 that a comparativly much higher precision is possible than with other haptic rain sensors like the Weatherflow Tempest which is still very poor compared to the WS90.

Only via some AI based midnight "crowd-data correction" including past data from meteorological services they reset the past day readings to higher accuracy. And they need other services and the Tempest station network for that.
Stand-alone the Tempest is still very poor from what I read and a WS90 with all its flaws still classes better.

Why do I say that:
Ecowitt has proven in the past to be able to produce creative and optimized solutions - why not also with an optical sensor, even though for the time being their usage doesn't show satisfactory results.
Let's see what the outcome will be.

EDIT: removed typos

[Platokidd]

Coming soon; inaccurate rain totals threads posted in the future.. With replies for a wh40.

[Gyvate]

Is the optical sensor more precise? I think it's even worse than the haptic one https://rainsensors.com/products/rg-11/rg-11-accuracy/

is there any reason why you chose the worse performing RG-11 over the better performing RG-15 sensor from Hydreon ?
why do you think your choice represents a still to-be-determined optical solution by Ecowitt better than an already existing better solution with an optical sensor ?

https://rainsensors.com/products/model-comparison/

or even another manufacurer:
https://www.renkeer.com/product/optical-rain-gauge/

Would be interesting to know ?

[giusCB]

Do you know any accurate optical rain sensors?

[Gyvate]

Do you know any accurate optical rain sensors?

that's not an answer to my question - the RG-15 and the Renke RS-GYL-*-1 claim to have a better accuracy than the model you brought in as a killer-example even without having any idea of the Ecowitt approach. Or do you know details of the concepts of the Ecowitt approach ?

I prefer scientifically based approaches - therefore I am interested to know on what basis you consider this Hydreon RG-11 as an representative example for optical rain gauges in general.

"Do you know any accurate optical rain sensors?" sounds more like a political statement than a scientific one, If you can show me/us or lead me/us to test series which show with a representative data sample that the other two mentioned by me are not just inaccurate but provide a quantifiable accuracy which one then may decide to call inaccurate, I'd be more than happy.

So far you fail to provide such data. Then such statements are opinions which everyone is free to have - but they should be clearly declared as opinions and not as factual.

[giusCB]

We'll see...

[Gyvate]

We'll see...

that - in my opinion - is a better approach.
If already existing optical rain gauges can be better than your example, why should Ecowitt not be able to be at least as good as what already exists.
Let's see ...

[giusCB]

I'm sure ecowitt does a better job.

[Gyvate]

we have an expression: don't start distributing the bear's fur before it is killed

[henry]

The optical sensor will be added in parallel with the current WS90, providing more rain status data. It does not replace the current WS90 design; it is just an extra add-on that might help improve the sensor for low or high rain rate conditions.
It is always worth trying something different. Since this is just an idea, there is no guaranteed good result. It is just a keep-and-trying method. It won't worsen it, but I don't know how good it will be.

[giusCB]

The optical sensor will be added in parallel with the current WS90, providing more rain status data. It does not replace the current WS90 design; it is just an extra add-on that might help improve the sensor for low or high rain rate conditions.
It is always worth trying something different. Since this is just an idea, there is no guaranteed good result. It is just a keep-and-trying method. It won't worsen it, but I don't know how good it will be.

Thanks Henry, we'll see...

[Gyvate]

The optical sensor will be added in parallel with the current WS90, providing more rain status data. It does not replace the current WS90 design; it is just an extra add-on that might help improve the sensor for low or high rain rate conditions.
It is always worth trying something different. Since this is just an idea, there is no guaranteed good result. It is just a keep-and-trying method. It won't worsen it, but I don't know how good it will be.

Very good- this is just what I thought - and it shows the creative and innovative approach at Ecowitt 
one also has to be ready to fail - at least at the first steps - but without leaving trotten paths no or very little innovation is possible

[olicat]

Hi!

The product page for the WS85 is online now.
Also the manual.

Oliver

[Gyvate]

and a special landing page - the product now called Essence3
https://shop.ecowitt.com/pages/essense3-landing-page

[kheller2]

“Why Separate
We separate the temp-hygrometer from automatic weather station to change the source of temperature.
Direct Sunlight
The direct sunlight with heat radiation affecting sensor body. Some products achieve the true temperature through temperature compensation or high cost shelter.
New Plan
So we solve the issue from the source, placing the temp-hygrometer under the roof. “

At first I thought they meant in the attic(!!!), but the picture shows under a porch, or at least tries to.

[Gyvate]

I guess it's meant to be the North side - otherwise, even under the porch, hot air would likely collect.

The alternative proposed solution using a radiation shelter makes sense - only not their RS00001 which they sell with the WH57 for water and debris protection. As a radiation shield in direct sunlight it shows poor performance.

The general idea of separating the wind, outdoor temp/hum and rain sensors (as WMO recommended) , however, makes a lot of sense.
Many people use already a separate WH32(-EP) - as it comes with the HP2552 and GW1102 stations.

[Platokidd]

I guess it's meant to be the North side - otherwise, even under the porch, hot air would likely collect.

The alternative proposed solution using a radiation shelter makes sense - only not their RS00001 which they sell with the WH57 for water and debris protection. As a radiation shield in direct sunlight it shows poor performance.

The general idea of separating the wind, outdoor temp/hum and rain sensors (as WMO recommended) , however, makes a lot of sense.
Many people use already a separate WH32(-EP) - as it comes with the HP2552 and GW1102 stations.

Friend of mine has his wh32 hanging under the overhang on the north side of his house as in the pictured. Works okay with minimum spikes.
This approach did not work for my daughter. Nor did the poor performing Ecowitt shield.


Marketing is for $ales. I'm $ure Ecowitt will do well. However, I just don't see the performance in plan A or B as shown for the ws85.

[Gyvate]

I guess it's meant to be the North side - otherwise, even under the porch, hot air would likely collect.

The alternative proposed solution using a radiation shelter makes sense - only not their RS00001 which they sell with the WH57 for water and debris protection. As a radiation shield in direct sunlight it shows poor performance.

The general idea of separating the wind, outdoor temp/hum and rain sensors (as WMO recommended) , however, makes a lot of sense.
Many people use already a separate WH32(-EP) - as it comes with the HP2552 and GW1102 stations.

Friend of mine has his wh32 hanging under the overhang on the north side of his house as in the pictured. Works okay with minimum spikes.
This approach did not work for my daughter. Nor did the poor performing Ecowitt shield.


Marketing is for $ales. I'm $ure Ecowitt will do well. However, I just don't see the performance in plan A or B as shown for the ws85.

This we can only tell once we have such a piece in hand and do tests ...

[kheller2]

Hmm I wonder how many people will be building hybrid WS90/WS85 devices.. updating the WS90 with the slanted roof of the 85.

[Gyvate]

Hmm I wonder how many people will be building hybrid WS90/WS85 devices.. updating the WS90 with the slanted roof of the 85.

it may not just be plug-and-play as the chipsets are different - but to be seen ...