Topic: Barani MS Pro vs SmartCellino radiation shield comparison

[Dvalente75]

Hello everyone! I am publishing yesterday's report! I confirm that the Meteoshield with the highest probe is within standard deviations!

[Jasper3012]

Yesterday's comparison of Davis Fars24h vs Smart Cellino at my friend's. You can see that with the low solar angle, we have not eliminated the problem of overheating of passive shields.

It’s time to accept that this is a feature of all passive radiation shields. From what I’ve seen, it’s definitely less of a concern on the SC than it is on the MS Pro, but it still occurs to some degree. It’s also worth pointing out that instantaneous measurements with an SHT35 can make the problem seem worse than it is compared to a WMO standard measurement, where a 1-min+ averaged measurement is used, which tends to smooth out the extremes you see on instantaneous measurements.

Also, can you let us know what the wind speed was during that day? It isn’t shown on your y-axis.

[Meteorology fan]

Yes, the problem seems smaller than on the Barani Meteoshield Pro III, but what is worth noting is that even the Davis FARS24H is not free from this effect under certain conditions. Apogee TS-100 at low angle can do better than Davis active. A matter of insulation and windmill. The second snapshot shows the average wind in m/s, tomorrow I can impose gusts. On the third you have the approximate irradiance.

[mauro63]

Yesterday's comparison of Davis Fars24h vs Smart Cellino at my friend's. You can see that with the low solar angle, we have not eliminated the problem of overheating of passive shields.

It’s time to accept that this is a feature of all passive radiation shields. From what I’ve seen, it’s definitely less of a concern on the SC than it is on the MS Pro, but it still occurs to some degree. It’s also worth pointing out that instantaneous measurements with an SHT35 can make the problem seem worse than it is compared to a WMO standard measurement, where a 1-min+ averaged measurement is used, which tends to smooth out the extremes you see on instantaneous measurements.

Also, can you let us know what the wind speed was during that day? It isn’t shown on your y-axis.

Absolutely agree and let's also take into account that, contrary to what is thought, the radiative error is not an exclusive characteristic of the summer months, on the contrary.
The fact that in this period the sun has a lower elevation angle does not eliminate this error, and indeed, perhaps amplifies it (in summer and with a high angle only a modest part of the screen is directly hit by the incident radiation, in this period it impacts on the lateral surface of the screen which is clearly larger)

The observation on the wind is correct, as we all know the only ally to limit radiative errors.

M.

[Jasper3012]

Yes, the problem seems smaller than on the Barani Meteoshield Pro III, but what is worth noting is that even the Davis FARS24H is not free from this effect under certain conditions. Apogee TS-100 at low angle can do better than Davis active. A matter of insulation and windmill. The second snapshot shows the average wind in m/s, tomorrow I can impose gusts. On the third you have the approximate irradiance.

So the y-axis on your graph with wind/temp applies to both parameters?

[Meteorology fan]

Yes, there is a medium wind on the gray. If you want, I will also apply wind gusts. For my part, I can say that I'm glad I acquired the Apogee TS-100 at a promotional price. In the last two months there have been two increases from the price of 380USD to 449USD net.

[Kallo78]

Yesterday report

[Jasper3012]

Yes, there is a medium wind on the gray. If you want, I will also apply wind gusts. For my part, I can say that I'm glad I acquired the Apogee TS-100 at a promotional price. In the last two months there have been two increases from the price of 380USD to 449USD net.

I find it hard to believe this person got an error of 1C+ with winds sustained around 2 m/s. At what height is his anemometer installed?

[Meteorology fan]

This is the installation of my colleague who has a Smart Cellino.

[mauro63]

This is the installation of my colleague who has a Smart Cellino.

A good meteorological installation but,

Screens too close together, in a meteorological context it is not important but, in a comparison the screens must be at the same height

- in the case of active ventilation screens, especially if with a ducted sensor and suction from below, they must be at a higher height than the passive one in comparison as good old Bruce rightly contests in this video

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

- in this installation, moreover, the air sucked and pushed out from above in by both apogee and davis returns internally into the Siap screen

Test that can only have indicative value referred to the single station

M.

[Meteorology fan]

My installation may not be perfect, but it's a little higher in my estimation of what I put in the garden

[mauro63]

My installation may not be perfect, but it's a little higher in my estimation of what I put in the garden

Unfortunately, yours, like mine and many others here, is not perfect, not if the goal is a comparison between SRS

if the goal is the meteorological data everything is fine, you have disturbances that probably will be compensated, you have redundancy of the main data but your comparisons cannot be considered definitive and incontestable.

So this means that you can share your experience, describe the various behaviors and your evaluations but that are relative only and exclusively to your station, bad for you does not mean bad for everyone and vice versa.

Once you have learned this, it will be much easier to continue

With respect

M.

[Meteorology fan]

Thrown in there are PT1000 calibrated and SHT35 sensors in each of the covers. The overheating effects of the passive shields can be observed and the two active ones confirm this with analog sensors.

[mauro63]

Thrown in there are PT1000 calibrated and SHT35 sensors in each of the covers. The overheating effects of the passive shields can be observed and the two active ones confirm this with analog sensors.

Perhaps the deviation from the topic is due to specific purposes or caused by lack of fundamental knowledge or other reasons that I do not know.

I am not talking about sensors, today a 5 euros sensor is enough for these purposes if a specific certification is not required, the problem is the disturbances and unwanted thermal transfers that a station like yours, mine, or the one you posted before inevitably suffers.

such disturbances, added to an imperfect installation create a measurement uncertainty that goes well beyond the measurand.

when your measurand is lower than your measurement uncertainty you do not measure anything, you can expose your data, we can discuss it, but they will never have a scientific and indisputable value.

M.

[Jasper3012]

This is the installation of my colleague who has a Smart Cellino.

I've only once recorded a 1C error on the SC and that was with a 10-min average wind speed of 0.1 m/s, gusting to 0.7 m/s at 5 m height, so pretty much dead calm at sensor height... As soon as the average wind approaches 1 m/s here, the error drops down to 0.1-0.2C. See the data from that day here (wind in km/h): https://meteo-be.net/nl/grafieken/male-brugge/custom_day/2025-01-12T23:00Z

Something seems off with the measurement you've provided, the performance seems a lot worse than anything I have ever recorded.

[Meteorology fan]

The wind measurement was at 5m with a WS90 Wittboy at a friend's house. I can't say much about the Smart Cellino itself. However, I do know that it will not replace the Apogee TS-100 for obvious reasons.

[mauro63]

The wind measurement was at 5m with a WS90 Wittboy at a friend's house. I can't say much about the Smart Cellino itself. However, I do know that it will not replace the Apogee TS-100 for obvious reasons.

A choice that, personally, I agree with, and it couldn't be otherwise.

There are conditions in which a passive screen does not compete nor will it ever be able to compete with an Apogee, here it was never said that SC would be the best screen in the world, it is not true and it would be incorrect to say so even just for pure advertising.

SC was born as an alternative to the best passive screens on the market, it is proving to be one and, not to be underestimated, at an average cost lower than the competition and with a set of accessories that I believe no one else can give.

Apogee, a screen that I love, but that I have stopped using, the ventilation management allows you to "model" the output data to your liking, a philosophy that I do not agree with and is also the basis of the choice NOT to use this type of screen in professional environments unless flanked by a natural ventilation system for comparison.

Furthermore, there are situations in which, unfortunately, the data from an artificially ventilated screen raise serious doubts about their veracity.

now I would like to return to the topic, please

M.

[Jasper3012]

I intend to restart the Barani vs SC comparison in a few weeks time. Now that I’ve established that there is in fact still somewhat of an error on the SC at times, I mainly want to find out how it compares to the error on the Barani.

[mauro63]

I intend to restart the Barani vs SC comparison in a few weeks time. Now that I’ve established that there is in fact still somewhat of an error on the SC at times, I mainly want to find out how it compares to the error on the Barani.

Happy to read this, this is the best time of year to bring out different behaviors with predominant solar radiation on the vertical plane.

Of course each station will provide different results, the radiation impacts mainly on the exposed side of the screen with variable angle based on your geographic position, being able to build a performance "map" based on the different stations I presume would be impractical, but exhaustive and numerous tests in different stations are welcome

M.

[Jasper3012]

I intend to restart the Barani vs SC comparison in a few weeks time. Now that I’ve established that there is in fact still somewhat of an error on the SC at times, I mainly want to find out how it compares to the error on the Barani.

Happy to read this, this is the best time of year to bring out different behaviors with predominant solar radiation on the vertical plane.

Of course each station will provide different results, the radiation impacts mainly on the exposed side of the screen with variable angle based on your geographic position, being able to build a performance "map" based on the different stations I presume would be impractical, but exhaustive and numerous tests in different stations are welcome

M.

The end goal is still to have a Davis vs SC vs Barani comparison but that won’t be possible for some time to come, so for now it’s 2 shields max. The Davis vs SC comparison of the past few months has certainly brought up some interesting and needed information, but as many have correctly stated, a passive vs active comparison can only be so useful. A passive vs passive comparison will eliminate some of the variables at play and will make detailed analysis much more worthwhile.

[Kallo78]

Report of Yesterday

[Meteorology fan]

I have had the Apogee TS-100 since November 2024, and I must say that it was a good purchase.  At my place I use it as a complement to passive screens, in this case the Barani Ms Pro III. At the price you could buy TS-100 is ok, and I bought in the second half of September 2024. colleagues in Poland also find it a good active shelter to compare with the best passive shields.

I'm not saying Apogee is perfect, but it gives more authoritative data than the Ms Pro III from Barani.

It is rare that the results are questionable. It is more often the Barani shelter that presents inappropriate physical quantities on the same sensors against the TS-100 and Davis FARS24H.

I plan to mount a Smart Cellino for comparison on my mast in the spring. The sensors are ready. Perhaps it will complement the measurements against the Barani Meteoshield Pro III and Apogee TS-100 and Davis FARS24H that I have.

I'm still wondering what to do with the Ms Pro III, because the humidity readings relative to the measurements in the active ones are questionable under different conditions, and this is also seen by colleagues in the country.

Here, for example, a colleague compares passive vs. active shields. He has there, in addition to SHT35, SHT35, PT100 class A and PT1000.: https://www.ecowitt.net/home/index?id=122831

We try not to use ds18b20 in our Polish climate, because it is not very precise in negative temperatures, especially when it comes to WN34D from Ecowitt, where this Dallas and its accuracy and response time is questionable. It's a lower grade sensor than PT100 and PT1000 and SHT35/45.

[Kallo78]

I have had the Apogee TS-100 since November 2024, and I must say that it was a good purchase.  At my place I use it as a complement to passive screens, in this case the Barani Ms Pro III. At the price you could buy TS-100 is ok, and I bought in the second half of September 2024. colleagues in Poland also find it a good active shelter to compare with the best passive shields.

I'm not saying Apogee is perfect, but it gives more authoritative data than the Ms Pro III from Barani.

It is rare that the results are questionable. It is more often the Barani shelter that presents inappropriate physical quantities on the same sensors against the TS-100 and Davis FARS24H.

I plan to mount a Smart Cellino for comparison on my mast in the spring. The sensors are ready. Perhaps it will complement the measurements against the Barani Meteoshield Pro III and Apogee TS-100 and Davis FARS24H that I have.

I'm still wondering what to do with the Ms Pro III, because the humidity readings relative to the measurements in the active ones are questionable under different conditions, and this is also seen by colleagues in the country.

Here, for example, a colleague compares passive vs. active shields. He has there, in addition to SHT35, SHT35, PT100 class A and PT1000.: https://www.ecowitt.net/home/index?id=122831

We try not to use ds18b20 in our Polish climate, because it is not very precise in negative temperatures, especially when it comes to WN34D from Ecowitt, where this Dallas and its accuracy and response time is questionable. It's a lower grade sensor than PT100 and PT1000 and SHT35/45.

But wh31ep in Apogee isn't to big?
Not too much of the interior space?

[Meteorology fan]

I have Wh31ep without filters. See pictures below. Sht35 from Sensirion is without filter to compare with pt1000 calibrated.

[Kallo78]

I have Wh31ep without filters. See pictures below. Sht35 from Sensirion is without filter to compare with pt1000 calibrated.

also I had wh31 without filter but after a while the humidity sensor was broken. I think that without protection can last short