Topic: Barani MS Pro vs SmartCellino radiation shield comparison

[mauro63]

One example among many, just look for the documentation on metrology.

https://www.baranidesign.com/faq-articles/2022/7/28/how-to-properly-perform-solar-radiation-shield-comparisons-for-weather-stations

I agree, the rotation of the screens is a solution, although rather complicated, capable of greatly reducing the measurement uncertainty even if it is not able to totally eliminate it

[tobyportugal]

Very simple to install: a circular pole with 3 branches at the top (Ls for satellite dishes).
With the branches, each shelter is more than a metre apart. No shadows.
All you have to do is turn the circular pole 120° whenever you want.
This is my setup in Portugal, so you know where my shelters are mounted.

[Jasper3012]

My Yesterday report


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We’re recording very similar trends, it seems. Your SC has been about 0.05C cooler than the MS Pro and I think it’s around the same looking at my graph (red = MS Pro warmer):

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[Jasper3012]

Very simple to install: a circular pole with 3 branches at the top (Ls for satellite dishes).
With the branches, each shelter is more than a metre apart. No shadows.
All you have to do is turn the circular pole 120° whenever you want.
This is my setup in Portugal, so you know where my shelters are mounted.

I don’t think this is that important in a completely open environment to be honest. I’m pretty sure, even though I can’t prove it, that there is no measurable difference in “climate” between the two poles, as they’re just a few metres apart. I can see this playing a more significant role in a sheltered environment, as one of the poles might be a bit closer to obstructions than the other for example, but not really in an open field.

[tobyportugal]

Very simple to install: a circular pole with 3 branches at the top (Ls for satellite dishes).
With the branches, each shelter is more than a metre apart. No shadows.
All you have to do is turn the circular pole 120° whenever you want.
This is my setup in Portugal, so you know where my shelters are mounted.

I don’t think this is that important in a completely open environment to be honest. I’m pretty sure, even though I can’t prove it, that there is no measurable difference in “climate” between the two poles, as they’re just a few metres apart. I can see this playing a more significant role in a sheltered environment, as one of the poles might be a bit closer to obstructions than the other for example, but not really in an open field.

The wind, the inclination of the rain, the radiant temperature, ...
Even more important with FARS.
Incidentally, there was a discussion with Jan Barani about the likelihood of the TS100 sucking in radiant air.
Derek can talk about this.

[Meteorology fan]

In Poland, many colleagues check the TS100 with the Barani Meteoshield Pro III and the Davis FARS24H and more errors in measurement were generated by the Meteoshield Pro. Often the temperature in the Barani was not in equilibrium with the outside temperature, as confirmed by independent temperature sensors both SHT35 without filters and also PT1000.

Incidentally, the Apogee TS100 generated air temperature measurement errors, this was certainly less frequent than on the Meteoshield from Barani in the Polish climate. Some colleagues are beginning to say that they would be happy to test the new Italian shield to see if it will generate the same serious defects as the Meteoshield, and they see that sometimes the helix does more harm than good.

[Jasper3012]

Very simple to install: a circular pole with 3 branches at the top (Ls for satellite dishes).
With the branches, each shelter is more than a metre apart. No shadows.
All you have to do is turn the circular pole 120° whenever you want.
This is my setup in Portugal, so you know where my shelters are mounted.

I don’t think this is that important in a completely open environment to be honest. I’m pretty sure, even though I can’t prove it, that there is no measurable difference in “climate” between the two poles, as they’re just a few metres apart. I can see this playing a more significant role in a sheltered environment, as one of the poles might be a bit closer to obstructions than the other for example, but not really in an open field.

The wind, the inclination of the rain, the radiant temperature, ...
Even more important with FARS.
Incidentally, there was a discussion with Jan Barani about the likelihood of the TS100 sucking in radiant air.
Derek can talk about this.

My 2 shields are experiencing the exact same rain, wind, sun, etc. though…

[tobyportugal]

My 2 shields are experiencing the exact same rain, wind, sun, etc. though…

Are you sure? Your photos say otherwise. (Wooden pole, box support, solar panel, ...) 

[Kallo78]

Finally, we're taking a rational approach to the problem! I had repeatedly asked for the height of the sun to be added.
With this link a CSV file is possible to be perfectly in phase with the data.

https://www.sunearthtools.com/dp/tools/pos_sun.php?lang=fr


On the subject of humidity, I'd like to repeat that I've spoken to Jan Barani about this on several occasions (in Portugal, humidity is important).
This was confirmed by someone at IPMA.
But nobody here is paying any attention.

It is not easy to represent the elevation line in a graph that already has 2 vertical axes. Do you know how to do this?

like this master model maybe 

this is easy. I wanted to have on the same graph radiation and elevation, then 3 vertical axes in all. Radiation, elevation, deviations from reference.
I try as soon as possible

[Jasper3012]

My 2 shields are experiencing the exact same rain, wind, sun, etc. though…

Are you sure? Your photos say otherwise. (Wooden pole, box support, solar panel, ...) 

These are factors that maybe make 0.01C of a difference, if that. I fully agree we need to optimize our testing sites to eliminate factors causing uncertainty, but there's also a limit to this, because you're never going to be able to reach perfection and if you require perfection for a test to be worth something, then no test will ever be of any value. I guess it's ultimately a subjective view on what testing site can be considered optimal or not.

[Kallo78]

My Yesterdary report. i've inserted separate graph for elevation

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[mauro63]

Mine yesterday data

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M.

[Kallo78]

My report from yesterday

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[Meteorology fan]

Am I seeing correctly that the Italian shield performs better when the sun shines in from the side than the Barani Meteoshield Pro III and generates less radiation error?

[mauro63]

mine yesterday data

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M.

[Jasper3012]

First 7 days of the comparison. Not much to say! Very boring weather here with a lot of cloud, wind and occasional rain, so not very interesting to compare shields. I await a spell of high pressure.

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[tobyportugal]

Take a holiday in the south 
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZKMzc0ZtyCoVF5bwcfCVYeLUKK5wJpXc1UV

[mauro63]

Take a holiday in the south 
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZKMzc0ZtyCoVF5bwcfCVYeLUKK5wJpXc1UV

I can't understand, empty boxes, no data

M.

[mauro63]

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[tobyportugal]

Take a holiday in the south 
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZKMzc0ZtyCoVF5bwcfCVYeLUKK5wJpXc1UV

I can't understand, empty boxes, no data

M.

simply a nod to my compatriot from the flat country (Jacques Brel)

[mauro63]

Mine yesterday data

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M.

[Kallo78]

My report from yesterday

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[Jasper3012]

My report from yesterday

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This is a very interesting report, possibly the first evidence the SmartCellino doesn’t suffer from the low sun angle + low wind effect? If you look at around 9 AM, the Barani suddenly jumped to 0.8C warmer than the SC, with sun and little wind…

[tobyportugal]

Already observed several times at home in Portugal (and published many times) between 2 Barani but with 2 different sensors, so ...
Also look at the humidity.

[mauro63]

Already observed several times at home in Portugal (and published many times) between 2 Barani but with 2 different sensors, so ...
Also look at the humidity.

Always respecting the lack of knowledge of the measurand,  let's say that it is possible that the pro may have suffered from lateral solar radiation due to the low angle of elevation of the sun.

the fact that the siap does not suffered from it does not mean that it is exempt from it, it will have to be evaluated as the angles vary over time
the problem certainly exists and cannot be ignored, we simply need to verify its extent and variations over time

M.