Author Topic: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain  (Read 2594 times)

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Offline DoctorKnow

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Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« on: July 19, 2024, 02:06:00 PM »
As the title says, a new issue has emerged with my Atlas. Last night during a heavy rain, the station both on Access and the display went dead. Has anyone else had this go on, and has anyone tried to figure out what went wrong? My sensor is only like 20 feet from the house at most. It is working perfectly fine now, in dry weather... I am going to attempt to use an external antenna to give better coverage, because you want the thing to work when it's storming! ](*,)

Offline Vasco

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2024, 02:49:03 PM »
Used to get a lot of problems with a 433 MHz Oregon Scientific station in wet weather. Wet walls, wet flat roofs. . .

Can't get in to Acurite site for GDPR reasons (and VPN failed, too) so I don't know what frequency you use. . . my Ecowitt kit on 868 MHz is much better.
Ecowitt GW1102 (with GW2000) + Weather Display in Windows 10

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2024, 08:01:36 PM »
So tonight it's raining, and it's working fine. I moved around the wires to the rain bucket earlier today thinking maybe bad connections of some sort. Still thinking I will do an out of plastic antenna.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2024, 09:01:28 AM »
So an update. I took the plastic stand off the display, and hung it on the wall behind where I had the display on a table. It works now without losing signal at all... My access is also working flawlessly. I have not done an outdoor antenna mod either. The access is just sitting on my desk! The battery light did go on for one day on the display, but has since turned off. I believe there is a short in the board somehow on the outdoor sensor. I have another board I saved from my second Atlas, (this is the third I am running) if this one fails, I can swap it maybe. My original Atlas is working flawlessly at a neighbors.

Offline Rhino

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2024, 05:55:30 PM »
Rain or simply very high humidity can have a negative affect on all RF communications. Fortunately, at 433 mhz and relatively small data packets, most light to moderate rain doesn't seem to impede the signal (unless there is some dense vegitation between the TX and RX, then the rain soaked vegetation CAN basically behave as a wall). Heavy rain has the effect of being a big lead wall, depending on the distance between TX and RX. That is unavoidable and these units are maxed out as far as how much "power" the transmitter can use to transmit- all regulated by FCC, and verified in rigorous and repeated testing.

The helical, or spring like transmission coil is made up of a laminated length of copper wire- the spring like shape takes the signal and broadcasts it in as close to an even 360º transmission as possible, that is why transmitters have that type of antenna- and it is an exact science how long the coil should be, and where on the PCB it is located for best RF performance. I know users tend to think these things are just thrown together, but believe it or not YEARS of testing and development go into these. The RF TX and RX antennas are carefully tuned based on RF science and well known methods, and then are rigorously tested to perform the best that they can while still being within the specs that the FCC requires. Each unit is also tested during development with whats called a polar plot, where RF is tested to receive at 360º around the transmitter antenna to find any potential "blind spots" due to the structure of the PCB or other components in or around the TX housing. After polar plot testing, anything that shows up there is addressed, then the unit is tested again to verify any improvements. Everything else is out of the control of the product- from environmental conditions, structures in the install environment, and most importantly other RF communication and electronic interference in the installation environment. Remember that these units are governed by FCC part 15 rules, which state that the product must receive interference, even if harmful to the products operation and/or performance. SO, if there is ANY interference around from similar frequencies- they will for sure occasionally affect the communication between the transmitter and receiver- by law.

Other environmental considerations apply, for example- many users report that the display RX is not receiving data from the outdoor sensor and they have the display right in front of the window- they can actually see the display and the sensor together right through the window, and it frustrates them when they have reduced signal strength. I get that it seems that should be the best possible scenario for communication- right through the window. In actuality, most modern windows from the past 30 years or so have special coatings on them to keep UV and other light spectrums out of your home for thermal efficiency and for the longevity of items inside your home (prevent fading, etc.). These special coatings can essentially act as a sheet of aluminum, preventing RF signal from getting through. In MANY cases, when those users move the display a foot to the right of the window, on a wall, they suddenly get reception again.

Now, having said all of that, these AcuRite units are engineered to perform as best as possible, even with these known issues that will for sure affect the performance in many users environments. Take this specific issue for example, of the receiver NOT receiving updates during a heavy rain storm- which, again, is a normal occurrence in many cases. That is why the transmitter sends a signal containing the number fo rain bucket tips- NOT the actual inches/mm or rain observed. In this way, the receiver can lose signal at 1 tip (.01") reconnect a few minutes later and get an updated signal containing how many bucket tips there were in the LOS period and update the total in the display memory. Even though you MAY not see the total update during the 20 minute LOS period, the rainfall record will always be updated and corrected upon re-acquiring the TX signal.

Since AcuRite receivers do not show true RSS strength, and each "bar" represents an expected data packet either received or missed, users tend to think the unit is having communication issues if there is anything less than 4 "bars." It was done this way to give the user the most up to the minute way of seeing if they are getting the most recent data- not meant to be a way to "babysit" the signal strength and be concerned whenever it is bouncing between 2-3 "bars". As long as you have at least 2-3 bars, you are still getting all of your data, you are just getting delayed updates. If you were to monitor other devices in the same manner- regardless of operating frequency, you would also see MANY missed packets of data. RSSI signal strength shows an average of connection power in a way, and translates that to the specific device as a signal strength number, which can then be translated to "bars" or other graphical methods.

This is the only downside of a wired connection to the sensors, in that case you would get instant updates all the time, but we all choose the convenience of wireless communication instead- just realize there are the downsides I just laid out. There is nothing that can be done to "get around" many of the issues that occur with RF communication- some is physics, others is FCC stipulations.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2024, 04:17:20 PM »
Rhino,
I had to move my access out of the main house into a storage room with a repeater, because I just could not make it work good enough inside. There is just too much interference. Once I put the thing outside, it has all 4's on every sensor I have, and picks up fine two houses away. I did not think the access would work with a repeater, but it does.

Offline DrewShock

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2024, 01:52:55 AM »
My Atlas in dry west Texas, almost always loses signal during rain. It's not a transmission issue, it's a battery connection issue. The red flashing indicator light quits blinking. They only way to get it working again is to take the batteries out and then back in. Or I can wait till the rain stops and it dries out.

There is something wrong with the way the battery compartment is made. I have heard some people say when they use the remote battery setup and plug that into the power outlet in the Atlas instead of using the battery compartment, they have no more trouble. Maybe the new solar panel would solve this issue, as it plugs in also, in lieu of batteries. I think the batteries are getting wet. I have issues with corroding batteries except when I use Duracell Quantum, they never seem to leak or corrode, but I still lose signal in the rain even with them.

Sometimes, mostly in the early AM, the Atlas will stop sending data for no reason, even when it's dry. It can take from a few hours to days to reconnect. My Atlas in the wet Northwest has this same random lost signal issue but much less often. Luckily, my Northwest one doesn't have the lost signal issue when raining.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2024, 10:36:33 AM »
I have the solar panel hooked up, and I still lose signal. However, water must be getting in the seams of some of the sensors. I have not had this happen to mine, but I could see how it could find it's way in from the way the two halves of the body go together if not seated right, or the rain gauge funnel get's blocked up.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2025, 10:59:42 AM »
I just recently replaced the fan motor in my second Atlas after I noticed the temperature was too high. The fan would barely turn. After this, all my signal issues are gone. I don't know if a bad fan motor is the cause of it, or just moving some wires around inside the shell, because there are a lot of wires hooked up to the board. I thought I would share in case anyone wants to dig deeper and try a few things. I think the signal problems are caused by something not being exactly right at the sensor board.

Offline DrewShock

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2025, 11:16:39 PM »
DoctorKnow - I replaced the fan in my Texas Atlas last March adding longer lead wires and added connectors to make future motor changes easier. The wires were already twisted together, as some people suggested to reduce interference, and I twisted them even more. The longer wires allow me to route the wire further from the circuit board. I still had disconnect issues the rest of the year. So far this year its been pretty steady.

The old motor had a circuit board attached to it but my new one did not. It was taken out of an old DVD player. The two motors had the same part number though. Glad the motor changed worked for you. Most of my disconnects happen between midnight and 4 AM or when it rains. And the reconnect can take from hours to months. The first update after it reconnects, many times I will get wild numbers like -40 degrees and/or wind speeds of 250 mph.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2025, 07:49:06 AM »
I think there is something wrong with a connection to the board that causes these problems. I have had the same things happen, but then after I move things around, it will go away, or get worse. I've taken the sensor apart before and made things worse, so I feel like connections inside or wiring being moved causes interference. I want to add though, that after the fan replacement, and before this one went bad, the Atlas is so accurate temperature wise, compared to all the other stations nearby. The fan makes the system much more responsive compared to other brands.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2025, 07:51:40 AM by DoctorKnow »

Offline DrewShock

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2025, 07:03:09 PM »
I had the 5 in 1s before the the Atlases and when it's fan went out the temps would be 5 to 10 degrees higher than normal. Even with the fan working, sometimes the single solar panel 5 in 1 was still reading too high. The dual solar panel model pretty much remedied that problem.

I agree when the fan is working on the Atlas it's pretty darn accurate for high temps. But I have noticed it seems to read a little high (2 to 5 degrees) for the low of the day especially when then temps are below freezing. Have you noticed that with yours?

I have two Atlases, one in the wet Northwest and the other in dry west Texas. I have way more disconnect issues with the Texas one, especially when it rains. That one is connected through the old Access. My independent thermometer and 5 in 1 also use that same Access and they don't disconnect anywhere near as much as the Atlas. I used to have problems with my 5 in 1 but I added a long wire to the end of the antenna and fished it out one of the rain drain holes. It's been near perfect ever since. I tried adding a longer antenna to the Access itself and that worked also. My Northwest Atlas uses the direct connect display. I have had times when the Atlas would not update on MyAcurite or WeatherUnderground but it would to the display, go figure.

I don't know about yours but the UV sensors on both my Atlases have issues. Anyway I think the same, there is some interference in there somewhere causing the disconnect issue.

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Atlas Drops Signal During Rain
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2025, 08:21:19 PM »
I haven't noticed the low temps being high. In fact the Atlas reads a few tenths of a degree to a degree lower than my Ecowitt tower sensor, which is in a solar shield right next to the Atlas. You may need to clean the thermometer screen that surrounds the thermo/hygro chip. I found mine gets really dirty. It's very tiny screws though make it tough to work on, so I would have a magnet to catch them.

 

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