Author Topic: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day  (Read 745 times)

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Offline rhodesengr

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I have a weather station on the roof of a condo building in Punta Mita MX. Here is the data on Weather Underground
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IVALLE160
I installed it new in March 2022. So its been up there for a little over a year. I am normally in California and today I looked at the data for the first time in a while and it seems to be going off at or near 5AM everyday now and comes back sometime in the morning, often not until close to Noon.

My first thought was it needs new CR123A battery but I called Davis and they said those batteries should last longer than 1 year. The battery being bad does seem to fit the pattern but I am wondering why it takes so long to come back online once the sun is up.

The station is on the roof of Building 1 and connects wirelessly to the console which is located in the main office which is directly across from Building 1. There is good line-of-sight from the roof of the condo building down to the office building. The setup has worked fine except when power goes off because the we lose wifi. The data is uploaded with wifilogger. Below is a plot of the data from April. It was working fine until about April 23. I will be going down there in a about a week so I can trouble shoot further but I thought in the meantime, I would post this and see what others think. It's not WU because I also have the data going to Weather Cloud and PWS Weather. The console uses the wifi in the main office so there is no reason why that would go off at every day at 5AM. If they were turning off their wifi, they'd do that when they go home at 5PM. Any other ideas? When I am down there, I can see if the data is getting to the console in the early morning. If not, that pretty much indicates an ISS power problem. I am taking new batteries down but wondering what others here think.

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« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 07:50:11 PM by rhodesengr »

Offline Mattk

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2023, 10:44:39 PM »
Simply a power/battery issue, stops ~ 5am after the capacitor has run down overnight, fires backup after the sun has put a bit of charge back in, typically indicates the CR123 battery is dead and not supporting the capacitor overnight. A 12 month system would not be expected to have a failed capacitance? Anyway first thing is to change the CR123 battery   

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2023, 11:53:15 PM »
Doesn't the solar panel power the ISS tx while charging the supercap at the same time? The OP says things aren't normal sometimes til noon. Seems more afoot to me...

Offline Mattk

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2023, 01:43:03 AM »
Yes there may or there may not be something more afoot and possibly a lowish capacitance and/or solar but it would be almost a certainty the CR123 battery is done and that would be the first thing to replace and to check the voltage of the old battery. A good CR123 will solely power an ISS for 8 months in total darkness or by spec at least 2 years depending on solar charge, so sight unseen it sounds like the ISS has been running maybe (?) more on the backup than from the capacitor since March 2022 (15 months) and again depending on the solar environment?

Some Vue ISS's require battery replacements around 6 months, some will run for years. In this VP2 instance I would replace the CR123 and see what life there is, in any case I would replace the battery every 12 months as regular maintenance.       

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2023, 02:28:30 AM »
The battery is the last line of redundancy. If you're relying on that, the solar panel (#1 power supplier), and/or the supercap (#2 power supplier), have issues. It's not a battery problem.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2023, 05:16:45 AM »
The battery is the last line of redundancy. If you're relying on that, the solar panel (#1 power supplier), and/or the supercap (#2 power supplier), have issues. It's not a battery problem.

If one really wants to get into real redundancy with the VP2 ISS then the primary power is via the external jack and secondary is via the battery inputs, solar panel & Supercap is simply ignored as not reliable as there's way too much importance placed on the Supercap which is a weak point but easily circumvented.

However for the purposes here the correct suggestion is to start with the CR123, first replace it, check the new voltage is at least 3.15+V and for reference check volts of old battery. Like who knows what the condition of the original was when installed, was it good? was it bad? totally unknown, wouldn't be the first CR123 down on capacity straight out of the box. Also make sure it is a good quality, good name brand, not all batteries are made or last the same.           

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2023, 05:32:41 AM »
The battery is the last line of redundancy. If you're relying on that, the solar panel (#1 power supplier), and/or the supercap (#2 power supplier), have issues. It's not a battery problem.

If one really wants to get into real redundancy with the VP2 ISS then the primary power is via the external jack and secondary is via the battery inputs, solar panel & Supercap is simply ignored as not reliable as there's way too much importance placed on the Supercap which is a weak point but easily circumvented.
That comment is inane.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2023, 06:23:01 AM »
Some would be obviously be quite surprised with what some do to VP2's to improve the robustness (for want of a better term) especially when it comes to power and especially with remote installs. The poor old CR123 runs out at around 1550mA, replace that with a 20,000mA feed and it adds quite some redundancy. One should never scoff unless they actually are aware of what can be done  [tup]

But that is getting a long way off the subject here, one should stick to the problem, the first part of this problem is the CR123     
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 06:26:15 AM by Mattk »

Offline vreihen

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2023, 07:18:22 AM »
Bird poop on the solar panel limiting its exposure?  Someone construct a new/taller building nearby?  Guess you'll find out when you visit the site in a few weeks.....
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Offline rhodesengr

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2023, 10:52:02 AM »
Thanks for all the input. I will be able to take a look around June 6. Bird poop is certainly possible. No shortage of birds as the building is 50 yards from the ocean. It survived several hurricanes last season so it has been through the mill. Very hot humid summer and Fall. Most stuff breaks down there.

I guess what I don't understand is why they don't use an actual rechargeable battery rather than a supercap. At a different location a few years back we had a Vantage Connect and that had a motorcycle cycle sized lead acid battery in it. Why not an actual Lithium Ion or LiPo battery?

Photo of the installation the day I put it in 2/23/2022
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Offline vreihen

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2023, 12:34:11 PM »
No shortage of birds as the building is 50 yards from the ocean.

Salt water/air corrosion is a real concern for any electronics located near the ocean.  Does Davis use decent conformal coatings on their circuit boards?

Quote
I guess what I don't understand is why they don't use an actual rechargeable battery rather than a supercap.

A supercapacitor has many more lifetime discharge/charge cycles than most current rechargeable battery technologies, and in other uses can also provide their full capacity almost instantly without damaging themselves.....
WU Gold Stars for everyone! :lol:

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2023, 03:17:21 PM »
But that is getting a long way off the subject here, one should stick to the problem, the first part of this problem is the CR123   
That's delusional. Why are you putting this nonsense out? The battery is the LAST thing that the ISS turns to after the solar panel and supercap no longer powers it. So, obviously, there is a problem with one or both of those two failing, which means the battery is right behind them. Jeez, I wonder how my first original Duracell that came with the ISS lasted twelve years... Ya think because the solar panel and supercap did their jobs? Hmmmm....

Offline rhodesengr

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2023, 04:23:00 PM »

A supercapacitor has many more lifetime discharge/charge cycles than most current rechargeable battery technologies, and in other uses can also provide their full capacity almost instantly without damaging themselves.....

Fair. I just don't have much of feel how much the ISS has to depend on the battery. It's not like this thing is located near a pole with low light for a good chunk of the year. This is in the tropics and while its not sunny everyday, there is a lot of light.

Troubleshooting seems clear and if replacing the battery does fix the daily shutoff, we'll have to see how long the fix lasts. If the battery gets drained down again quickly, then its something with the solar panel or supercap/charging electronics. The tech guy at Davis did mention replacing the borad but wanted to try the battery first which is reasonable. I have Panasonic batteries on the way. Looks like Davis is selling Tenergy which I think of as more of an off-brand. The 123A seems to be rated for higher temperature operation. It's in the high 80's F most of the time there. Not super hot (like Death Valley) but hot and humid all summer and Fall. Conditions definitely wear on things.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 04:25:07 PM by rhodesengr »

Offline Mattk

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2023, 04:44:58 PM »
Yes that's by far the best, easiest and obvious approach now, replace the battery, note the battery voltage before replacing as well as the voltage of the old battery, then you will have a baseline to work from.

Offline rhodesengr

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2023, 10:37:25 PM »
The operation is continuing to deteriorate. I looked at the data feed again today. The whole station is still dying from dawn to mid morning but as of a few days ago, the temperature data is crapping out at around 3PM while the other data is still showing up. This is during broad daylight so it doesn't seem like the battery problem can explain this new aspect. Any ideas? This shows the temp and wind data for the last week. I won't be able to change the battery until Monday.
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Offline rhodesengr

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Re: Vantage Pro 2 suddenly losing data at around 5AM every day
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2023, 06:29:08 PM »
Just to close this out.....

Turns out my transmitter board was totally dead. The weird on and off data was from some other station in the area also on channel 1.

First thing I did on Sunday was check the battery. It was fine at 3.2V. That is actually a bit higher than the new one I brought down which was 3.1 something. The console is in the office so I didn't have access on Sunday and that was frustrating but things became clear Monday morning. I put my station on Channel 6 and the console wasn't getting data on CH6. I put the station in test mode (DIP 4 ON) and no green LED. My console was still picking up data on CH1. So all that weird data I posted wasn't from my station. I am guessing my station died in late April when the weird data started. Anyway, I am brining my ISS and console home to make certain they are working and then it will be a number of months until I get back down to Punta Mita to reinstall down here.

Davis is sending me a new transmitter board.

 

anything