Author Topic: Tornado - Czech Republic  (Read 1458 times)

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Offline Jáchym

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Tornado - Czech Republic
« on: June 25, 2021, 08:40:40 AM »
About 50km from my house.... probably the worst here since 1100s...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qcBtPvrKkI&t=2s

Offline DaleReid

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2021, 09:12:27 AM »
For anyone near or in a tornado it can be frightening, and without saying, a deadly destructive experience.

And there are those in the plains states of USA that chase them....
Glad you are ok.

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Offline Jáchym

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2021, 03:30:09 PM »
It was 40 km from my house. Never seen anything like this, they say such a tornado in my country was maybe in 1100. Unprecedented even for the entire Europe. It seems like it was an F4 tornado. But we do not have any warning systems for such phenomena as it is so rare.

Complete towns destroyed in a belt 26 km long and 500 m wide. So far 200 injured and 5 fatalities but the numbers are growing as they dig through the debris.



Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2021, 04:41:16 PM »
crazy!

Offline ocala

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2021, 11:00:32 AM »
That is sad to see.  :-(
The blues had a baby and they named it Rock & Roll

Offline Bunty

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2021, 09:22:41 PM »
Surely it's a consequence of climate change.  Expect highly unusual weather where ever you are.  In the USA, record breaking highs well past 100 in the Pacific Northwest has been happening.  Less unusual for time of year is there has been a lot of rain falling from southwest Texas to Illinois.

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Offline gwwilk

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2021, 10:55:59 PM »
Surely it's a consequence of climate change.  Expect highly unusual weather where ever you are.  In the USA, record breaking highs well past 100 in the Pacific Northwest has been happening.  Less unusual for time of year is there has been a lot of rain falling from southwest Texas to Illinois.
Weather extremes aren't rare, nor are they a harbinger of or a consequence of climate change.  Check your facts before you make such unfounded assertions.  Indeed the weather can be extremely uncomfortable and unusual at times.  But to infer that these extremes represent proof of anthropogenic climate change is folly, the result of blithely accepting an unprovable pseudo-scientific hypothesis as fact.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 10:57:57 PM by gwwilk »
Regards, Jerry Wilkins
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Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2021, 05:13:42 AM »
look at this way:
the weather is chaotic
there are extremes
always has been
but as you lift the background temperature, then more record high extremes are broken than record cold extremes
which is what has been happening
also the oceans are warming up as well as the atmosphere
and so there is more energy available in the way of atmospheric moisture (i.e dew point) and so more extremes of a range of weather conditions are happening and more often (extreme rain events, stronger tornadoes, faster intensifying hurricanes, etc)

you are in a small minority that think the way you do gwwilk. Open your eyes :)

Offline Mattk

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2021, 05:36:30 AM »
Surely it's a consequence of climate change.....
Why would you say that? Why would there have been a more severe system in the year 1100? What was the excuse in the year 1100?

Offline Mattk

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2021, 05:41:10 AM »
....Open your eyes :)

Lots of very open mined people have their eyes open, some more than others, it's the type of people making the most noise and for their own reasons many have to be careful about  :shock:

Offline Jáchym

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2021, 06:49:32 AM »
My view is that climate change can lead to increased frequency of such phenomena, but this does not mean such a strong tornado could appear regardless of the climate change. There is also no way to tell if this was a result of climate change. It occurred during very strong thunderstorm that formed into a supercell, but that also happens several times a year here. Just this time the conditions were favorable for tornado formation.

One other thing to note is that nowadays we have much more information. Everyone has a phone with a camera and so when something happens, we all know about it quickly and accurately.

So despite the fact I definitely do believe climate change is a major threat and is happening, I think this tornado cannot be directly associated with it.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2021, 05:13:38 PM »
i am meaning open your eyes to what is happening around the globe, not just what is only happening in your backyard :)

Offline gvmelbrty

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2021, 11:40:57 AM »
... you are in a small minority that think the way you do gwwilk. Open your eyes :)
Add me to the minority report.

Offline gwwilk

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2021, 01:00:40 PM »
you are in a small minority that think the way you do gwwilk. Open your eyes :)
Science isn't a democracy.  The climate has always been changing, and to aver that you have a divine pathway to an understanding of the underlying mechanisms is hubristic folly.  I maintain that the guesswork behind 'climate science' is just that, guesswork, because anthropogenic climate change is an untestable hypothesis not subject to experimental proof, which is the 'acid test' of science.  You can only state that anthropogenic climate change fits with some observations, not that those observations prove your hypothesis.  Those observations still stand whatever their etiology, even without your hypothesis.  Anthropogenic climate change is just an opinion, not proven fact.  I happen to remain a skeptic, in case you couldn't tell.  Please don't adduce weather extremes as an argument for your position!  They're nothing new, after all, as Jáchym's post indicates.

Do I agree that we as a civilization should use as much renewable energy as possible?  Of course I do.  However, we have no idea how massive wind  and solar farms will affect our planet.  Remember the law of unintended consequences which can rear up and bite you when you least expect it.  I even drive a hybrid vehicle that gets 40 mpg.  I live in wide open spaces.  Taking a trip of over 500 miles would be difficult to do efficiently in an all electric vehicle where 'fueling up' is very time consuming.  So I compromised on a hybrid.

This has been your 'minority report'...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 01:03:37 PM by gwwilk »
Regards, Jerry Wilkins
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Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2021, 05:15:51 PM »
Quote
The climate has always been changing
yes, no one disputes that
and I am not sure why you nay sayers come up with that line of arguement all the time

and yes there will always be and always has been extremes
but as you increase the background average temperature, then more record high temperature extremes around the globe are broken
than record low temperature extemes
yes?

Offline gwwilk

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2021, 06:09:17 PM »
Quote
The climate has always been changing
yes, no one disputes that
and I am not sure why you nay sayers come up with that line of arguement all the time

and yes there will always be and always has been extremes
but as you increase the background average temperature, then more record high temperature extremes around the globe are broken
than record low temperature extemes
yes?
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day?  It's proof of nothing!
Regards, Jerry Wilkins
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Offline Mattk

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2021, 06:35:16 PM »
Yep they really need to stop fiddling and diddling with the weather data. The actual raw recorded data should stand-alone not be modified because it is not giving the values they "require" to justify whatever they think they are trying to justify 

Offline Bunty

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2021, 02:10:59 AM »
Surely it's a consequence of climate change.  Expect highly unusual weather where ever you are.  In the USA, record breaking highs well past 100 in the Pacific Northwest has been happening.  Less unusual for time of year is there has been a lot of rain falling from southwest Texas to Illinois.
Weather extremes aren't rare, nor are they a harbinger of or a consequence of climate change.  Check your facts before you make such unfounded assertions.  Indeed the weather can be extremely uncomfortable and unusual at times.  But to infer that these extremes represent proof of anthropogenic climate change is folly, the result of blithely accepting an unprovable pseudo-scientific hypothesis as fact.

Listen to me right here and now gwilk.  You are all out WRONG in trying to make a point.  I am close to 70 years old.  In Feb. of 2021, never have I witnessed such long lasting intense cold in Oklahoma. It went on day after day and got down to around 14 below. I have never had to deal with frozen water pipes before.  Fortunately, they did not break.

I love the showy blossoms of Crepe Myrtle bushes every summer, but the extreme cold destroyed all the above ground growth on many of them. I've never seen them harmed that bad from prolonged intense cold. At least, they weren't destroyed below ground, so they are trying to make a come back by returning with growth from the ground up.  I am sure happy that the magnolia trees weren't destroyed.  They blossomed with their white flowers but were a little late this year.

In 2011, in Oklahoma and Texas the extreme drought and 100+ degree temperatures that went on day after day for up to around 100 days non stop was all time record setting and unbelievable to the old timers. 

So, of course, climate change is going on like never before in everybody's lives.  Great Salt Lake and Meade Lake are at low levels seldom, if ever seen before. Who knows how low they will go?  If the intense  drought in that part of the country doesn't let up, I won't be too surprised bottled water has to be trucked in to Salt Lake City and Las Vegas. 

It seems those who are opposed to trying to do anything about climate change feel mankind is helpless to do anything about it, and that we must be personally responsible enough to clean up after weather disasters as they happen.  Well, if you're cleaning up after several closely spaced weather disasters, then I'd say it's time to move to a different part of the country not as subject to weather disasters caused by climate change.

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Offline Bunty

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2021, 02:14:50 AM »
Surely it's a consequence of climate change.....
Why would you say that? Why would there have been a more severe system in the year 1100? What was the excuse in the year 1100?

Because it's about climate change.  When you get older, if you're not now older,  maybe you'll understand better without having to ask such questions.

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Offline Bunty

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2021, 02:25:37 AM »
you are in a small minority that think the way you do gwwilk. Open your eyes :)
Science isn't a democracy.  The climate has always been changing, and to aver that you have a divine pathway to an understanding of the underlying mechanisms is hubristic folly.  I maintain that the guesswork behind 'climate science' is just that, guesswork, because anthropogenic climate change is an untestable hypothesis not subject to experimental proof, which is the 'acid test' of science.  You can only state that anthropogenic climate change fits with some observations, not that those observations prove your hypothesis.  Those observations still stand whatever their etiology, even without your hypothesis.  Anthropogenic climate changes just an opinion, not proven fact.  I happen to remain a skeptic, in case you couldn't tell.  Please don't adduce weather extremes as an argument for your position!  They're nothing new, after all, as Jáchym's post indicates.



But don't be surprised if people who have lived many decades don't agree with you.

 Isn't the no. 1  reason why you're opposed to doing anything about  spending billion$ and imposing burdensome regulations to combating anthropogenic climate change is because there is no sound proof that is causing anything?   So all that money spent and burdensome regulations all done for nothing?

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Offline Mattk

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2021, 02:48:21 AM »
Surely it's a consequence of climate change.....
Why would you say that? Why would there have been a more severe system in the year 1100? What was the excuse in the year 1100?

Because it's about climate change.  When you get older, if you're not now older,  maybe you'll understand better without having to ask such questions.

Oh I'm not asking the question, I am posing the question, I'm interested in people trying to explain and justify their comments. Many have yet to look outside the box on all of this and many will simply ignore the facts, mainly because the facts confuse what many think they have to believe

Offline gwwilk

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Re: Tornado - Czech Republic
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2021, 05:28:21 AM »
@Bunty

Let me just say that at 78 going on 79 I have more years of experience than you.  I spent my working career in a science-based field where I was required to come to conclusions based upon partial and sketchy information.  I fully understood the guesswork behind those conclusions and the consequences thereof.  When necessary I didn't proffer my guesswork as anything other than that even though people's lives were at stake.

I maintain that climate change will occur despite all of our efforts to stop time.  Can we ameliorate the effects of climate change?  Possibly.  Should we try?  Absolutely.  You come at this problem with a foregone conclusion whereas I approach it with a much more open mind.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 05:32:06 AM by gwwilk »
Regards, Jerry Wilkins
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