WXforum.net
Weather Station Hardware => Ambient Weather and Ecowitt and other Fine Offset clones => Topic started by: galfert on March 14, 2019, 10:41:11 PM
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Updated: July 25, 2019
After owning both the WS-2000 and the WS-2902A for a few months and running them side by side I thought I could round up all the information learned and list most if not all of the differences in one post. I'm not sure I'll remember all of them but I'll give it a shot. Please feel free to add things I may have missed and I'll update this post for reference. As we get new firmware releases I'm sure there will be more differences. The point of this thread is only to point out differences. Things that they both do equally like they both report to WeatherCloud aren't the focus of this thread. It is worth noting for newbies that the outdoor sensor array is identical. You can get either display separately no matter which model you start with. You can even start with neither display like with the WS-1550-IP and add one or both of these displays. For some reason Ambient calls the WS-2000 display a display tablet....it is not portable like a tablet and it isn't touchscreen ...it requires AC power...so realistically they are both display consoles. I'm not really sure why it had to be called a tablet. I still call them both display consoles.
To be fair though the biggest immediately noticeable difference between these two is the display technology. The WS-2902A is a static LCD display with sections that can be lit up to create numbers, like an old digital clock. The different sections are colored by a film and thus the colors don't change. The WS-2000 on the other hand is a fully bit mapped Full Color TFT LCD display where every pixel can change color and the screen layout can be changed by firmware and is more adaptable to be customized. That is why it is capable of displaying full tables of data and full screen graphs. It is like your computer monitor or mobile device screen. Perhaps that is why the WS-2000 display console is called a tablet.
Some of these differences I also learned before owning the WS-2000 and can be found by reading the following thread that started around the time the WS-2000 launched:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34962.0
There is also lots of good information in other places. So here is my attempt to consolidate all the information learned:
The point of this thread is to realize that even though the WS-2000 is the more premium product, the WS-2902A still has some advantages that may appeal to some people. So the WS-2000 is not better in every way (but it almost is). The good news is you can have both displays running at the same time as I am doing.
WS-2902A Advantages (things the WS-2000 can't do or is inferior at)
- Larger numbers that can be read from across the room, although viewing angle is limited. On the WS-2000 you can see from more angles but many numbers are too small to read unless up close.
- doesn't require separate WH32B (or WS-1000-BTH) sensor as it is built in for temperature, humidity, barometer. Something less to have to deal with and not have to replace batteries in.
- has a DST indicator on top of the time to indicate if you are currently in observance of Daylight Saving Time or not.
- will keep receiving sensor data from outdoor array even when not powered on AC (screen turns off though but you can manually turn it on for a few secs on battery)....BUT it will not upload this data as the WiFi will be disabled, and since it doesn't have a built in log the only benefit is to see rain totals and min/max of other data. So this is pretty pointless...you'd be better off with a battery backup on the WS-2000 so that it continues to log internally and use WiFi if Internet is also working on battery backup. You could also run battery backup on the WS-2902A so that it keeps Internet connection.
- retains daily min/max on power outage because of battery. But the WS-2000 retains all historical records and settings without a battery, the WS-2000 just looses daily on power outage. A UPS is always a solution though.
- Has temperature & pressure trend indicators (rising, falling, stable)
- it cost less
WS-2000 Advantages (things the WS-2902A doesn't have or is inferior at)
- has ability to add more sensors; temperature, humidity, soil, PM2.5 (and lightning said to be coming in the future)
- has nicer looking display that is able to be viewed at all angles (even though many numbers are smaller and unable to be read from distance)
- all the live data is able to be viewed on the screen without need to press any buttons (at the sacrifice that numbers are smaller)
- has indicator for WU and AmbientWeather.net reporting working and connected
- has potential lighting indicator that turns on when dew point is 70F or higher.
- has color changing rings for temperature and humidity changes
- displays solar radiation down to tenths when below 1000 w/m2, where the WS-2902A only shows and rounds to whole numbers.
- has built in graphs
- has built in data tables
- saves data to micro SD card
- easier to connect to WiFi directly as it doesn't need a mobile device to set up
- displays current time with seconds.
- daily sunrise and sunset times
- has sun location over horizon indicator
- has more accurate moon phase indicator with more levels
- more accurate barometric trend indicator
- has yearly min/max (also has daily min/max), but only yearly min/max is retained on power outage.
- Retains barometer calibration and other settings after power outage. The WS-2902A unfortunately forgets its barometric calibration and all Min Max records when you remove power and batteries as you would need to do when servicing the outdoor sensor array to not get false readings. This is annoying on the WS-2902A.
- light and dark themes
- automatic brightness and on/off adjustment schedule to custom times
- automatic total yearly rain reset on January 1st (or any month you choose to be yearly reset). Yes the WS-2902A keeps Total counting forever unless you manually remember to reset it on January 1st.
- easier to calibrate and set alarms
- buttons on the WS-2000 can be used at night as they are labeled on the display and you can feel for them as they are physical buttons. The WS-2902A buttons are not visible at night so you are flying totally blind as the screen does not provide enough light to even see the buttons and they are not raised buttons so you can't feel for them either. This is a big deal because with the WS-2902A you need the buttons as all the data isn't visible at one time.
- ability to roll forwards and backwards on Revision firmware versions. The WiFi firmware that doesn't seem to do much only goes forward. On the WS-2902A you can only go forward to the current newest version
- the WS-2000 being the more premium model and ability to be easily customized will probably see more changes in the future...where as the WS-2902A is pretty much limited to what it does now
- WS-2000 hardware seems like it is identical or very close to the WS-1001 hardware that was hacked and screen layout customized. Although I haven't seen this done yet on the WS-2000 it is promising if someone were to look into this as the method would probably be same/similar enough.
And Lastly I'll leave you with a nice side by side view of both:
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Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 08:09:08 AM
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I have the WS-2902A and after researching til my eye's burned, I just ordered WS-2000 earlier today.
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I have the WS-2902A and after researching til my eye's burned, I just ordered WS-2000 earlier today.
Great, good choice. Hopefully you also remembered to get a WH32B which you'll need, unless you already had one from using an ObserverIP. The WS-1000-BTH also works but is an older model.
I also want to point out that the WS-2000 also connects to WeatherCloud as I mentioned before. People often miss this because it isn't mentioned in the manual, and there isn't a way to configure it on the display itself. The only way to configure WeatherCloud on the WS-2000 is to use the awnet mobile app. The awnet app also provides some extra functionality to turn WU off as that can't be don't on the display...even though you were able to enter the credentials on the display...once they are in there only a factory reset will take them out ...unless you use the awnet app, and then you can enable and disable.
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I have the WS-2902A and after researching til my eye's burned, I just ordered WS-2000 earlier today.
Great, good choice. Hopefully you also remembered to get a WH32B which you'll need, unless you already had one from using an ObserverIP. The WS-1000-BTH also works but is an older model.
I also want to point out that the WS-2000 also connects to WeatherCloud as I mentioned before. People often miss this because it isn't mentioned in the manual, and there isn't a way to configure it on the display itself. The only way to configure WeatherCloud on the WS-2000 is to use the awnet mobile app. The awnet app also provides some extra functionality to turn WU off as that can't be don't on the display...even though you were able to enter the credentials on the display...once they are in there only a factory reset will take them out ...unless you use the awnet app, and then you can enable and disable.
Do believe it comes with the Indoor Thermo-Hygrometer-Barometer from Amazon. Would this be the WH32B ?
I am on Weather cloud now with my WS-2902a, so Im think that should remember how I did that, hopefully...
Can't wait to get the WS-2000 up and running.
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Being that you said you already owned a WS-2902A and you said you ordered the WS-2000 today as an upgrade, I thought you meant that you just got the WS-2000 display, not a whole new station. From just now having read your other post I now see that you did order a complete WS-2000 station because you want to use the WS-2902A at another location. So yes the WS-2000 complete station comes with the WH32B.
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I just ordered the WS-2000, I was in another thread and could not decide. But, reading this, it helped me decide. Will have it Sunday from Amazon.
Thanks!
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I Updated the first post in this thread to reflect that the WS-2000 with newest firmware 1.4.0 now gains some new abilities that were previously unique to the WS-2902A.
The WS-2000 now can:
- display RF signal strength of outdoor sensor array and also signal strength of optional sensors.
- display battery status of outdoor array and optional sensors. I think it only lights up when low battery as I don't see current status. I believe this is how the WS-2902A does this also for the outdoor sensor array.
- Rain Rate now displayed on the display of the WS-2000. This is also referred to as instant rain rate. This for me was the only reason I kept the WS-2902A around and as my choice to use for publishing to WU.
Since I've not had rain yet I don't know if this Rain Rate is only on the display or if it also changes the reporting method to WU. I'll update when I get some rain which should be any day now. UPDATE: Yes the method of uploading data for rain rate has changed to instant rain rate! \:D/
See this for more information regarding rain rate methods
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=36086.0
This seems like a great and important update. I've not explored it yet to see what other new undocumented features may be in there.
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The ws-2902 design is just terrible. Beside the impossible task of a smooth initial configuration (followed though by an impressive reliability) some decisions are just annoying. The angular power minijack is infuriating, the power brick cable is too short and have to be carried around if you want move the base in another room. Why not using a regular (probably chepear) widespread usb connector?
Plus they could have use the usb interface port to avoid all that IOT wireless configuration fiasco.
Oh and the stand is the most awkward overengineered solution to a simple problem i saw in a long time.
Beside that I love how flawless it works once configured and the ambientweather.net API are always being super responsive and rock solid.
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Really good and impressive write up and review by galfert. Very easy purchasing decision.
Andy
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I just updated the OP to include the following for the WS-2000:
- Retains barometer calibration and other settings after power outage. The WS-2902A unfortunately forgets its barometric calibration when you remove power and batteries as you would need to do when servicing the outdoor sensor array to not get false readings. This is annoying on the WS-2902A.
I don't know if the WS-2902A also forgets temperature and humidity calibrations as I didn't test that (I'm not needing to do those). But barometric calibration is something that I and many people work hard at getting just right. It's not something I want to have to redo because I need to do routine maintenance of the outdoor sensor. Some people may not mind the false readings and they keep the console powered up during maintenance ... But if you want to do it right you power down the console and pull the batteries to avoid the false positives. This is not an issue with the WS-2000.
You can't just pull the batteries from the outdoor sensor array because it has a super capacitor inside that you can't disconnect. Even if you cover the solar panel the super capacitor keeps it running and transmitting to the console.
Maybe if you had a large Faraday cage to put the WS-2902A console into (so it stays powered up) while servicing the outdoor sensor array then you could get around this headache. :grin:
This is a major plus for the WS-2000. If I only had a WS-2902A I'd be really annoyed. But because I have one of each console I can easily use the WS-2000 put the barometric settings back into the WS-2902A.
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The WS-2029 can easily converted to the WS-2000. Which at a later date will just get the new console and run both.
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Thanks for the review. Ordered the WS-2000. Ambient site $50 or so cheaper than Amazon and free shipping. They ship from Chandler AZ, so one day delivery for me here in AZ! [tup]
Tired of being off the air since the Accurite 5in1 smarthub change screwed me over. That was my first and last Accurite purchase. Hoping the Ambient system is an upgrade and fits my needs.
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WS-2902A is not able to display wind direction evolution on weathercloud, and will never be able to.
Can WS-2000 display wind direction evolution on weathercloud?
Regards
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WS-2902A is not able to display wind direction evolution on weathercloud, and will never be able to.
I did not know that. I experienced what you said, that it doesn't work. But I thought it was problem on WeatherCloud side. Months later I switched to uploading with Meteobridge but I didn't realize right away that doing so fixed the wind distribution and speed tools. I just thought that WeatherCloud fixed the problem. But I now realize that what fixed the problem was me switching to Meteobridge.
I don't know why you say that the WS-2902A never will be able to upload and have this wind distribution and speed tools work. Now that I realize it is a potential problem I'll be contacting Ambient/Fine Offset to get this fixed. If my data that originates from the Osprey sensor then goes to GW1000 and then Meteobridge can work then I don't see why it couldn't be fixed.
This probably means that this post link below of mine is wrong. Where I reported that the wind was finally working. I thought it was fixed by WeatherCloud.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=37498.msg385814#msg385814
Can WS-2000 display wind direction evolution on weathercloud?
That is a good question. My initial thinking right now without testing is that the WS-2000 also probably doesn't work. I have just now begun testing. Results take 24 hours as it is basically a prior 24 hour report like function. So I'll report back unless someone already has a WS-2000 and can look.
But I suspect that the WS-2000 won't work because the code is probably the same as the WS-2902A upload code.
UPDATE: See below. The WS-2000 does work.
I did have a GW1000 uploading and I noticed that it too doesn't work with the GW1000. Therefore I think the upload code is wrong in all Fine Offset devices. After I have confirmation on the WS-2000 then I'll let you know and I'll definitely be reporting it so that it gets fixed.
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I don't know why you say that the WS-2902A never will be able to.
Got that information from Lucy.
Regards
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I have both and the WS-2000 does display wind direction in Evolution.
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I have both and the WS-2000 does display wind direction in Evolution.
Yes my test also confirms that the WS-2000 works correctly with WeatherCloud Wind direction and speed tool.
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All the information I needed - GREAT post!
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Hi , group I'm new to weather tracking . Im an old geezer but functioning pretty good. I live on the east coast of Ma. and always was interested in Weather for obvious
reasons. I just bought my first weather station the Ambient WS -2902A its still in the box and after reading the comments I wonder if I should return it for the
2000 or maybe just add another monitor (2000) can I operate both off the 2902A station?
Also not sure how too set up the station have some ideas but not sure what is the best way to go. I propose to set in in a open field about sixty feet from my house
which should do the trick based on the formula from Ambient . I propose to attach the station to a 10' long ,one inch galvanized pole the problem is how to anchor it to the ground which is sand . I was thinking about a cement block which has holes in it to cement the pipe in one of the holes then laying two blocks one on each side of
the pole block then two blocks on top cross wise over the bottoms bocks and the pole block to anchor the pole block. I figured if this is possible not sure have to research more but if I can do this , the unit would be portable and I could move the unit if I have to . Not me personally but my two grandsons
Thanks for listening and suggestions would be greater appreciated
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Hi , group I'm new to weather tracking . Im an old geezer but functioning pretty good. I live on the east coast of Ma. and always was interested in Weather for obvious
reasons. I just bought my first weather station the Ambient WS -2902A its still in the box and after reading the comments I wonder if I should return it for the
2000 or maybe just add another monitor (2000) can I operate both off the 2902A station?
Welcome! Yes you can have both displays off the same sensor array.
Also not sure how too set up the station have some ideas but not sure what is the best way to go. I propose to set in in a open field about sixty feet from my house
which should do the trick based on the formula from Ambient . I propose to attach the station to a 10' long ,one inch galvanized pole the problem is how to anchor it to the ground which is sand . I was thinking about a cement block which has holes in it to cement the pipe in one of the holes then laying two blocks one on each side of
the pole block then two blocks on top cross wise over the bottoms bocks and the pole block to anchor the pole block. I figured if this is possible not sure have to research more but if I can do this , the unit would be portable and I could move the unit if I have to . Not me personally but my two grandsons
Thanks for listening and suggestions would be greater appreciated
I suggest you read though some of the other posts. Perhaps even check out some of the pictures in the station pictures sub-board of this forum to get siting and mounting ideas. But I think you've probably got it. You may also want to look at this station siting recommendations document: https://www.weather.gov/media/epz/mesonet/CWOP-Siting.pdf
Definitely consider routine maintenance in your mounting solution. You may need to clear the rain gauge of debris every so often, clear bugs and spiders and spiderwebs etc.
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Is the 2902-C a better display than the old 2902A? The price seems to have gone up by $40.
https://ambientweather.com/amws2902.html
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Is the 2902-C a better display than the old 2902A? The price seems to have gone up by $40.
https://ambientweather.com/amws2902.html
Ambient say on their website "The WS-2902C features a dramatic redesign of the LCD display...."
see yourself
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WS-2902 A/B WS-2902C (size is the same, only picture size is different)
If you consider this "new dramatic console design change" to be better ... - I guess it's a matter of taste.
Functionality-wise there doesn't seem to be a significant difference to the Ecowitt WH2910 which is the same as the WS-2910B console (with 915 MHz and Ambient firmware).
Unless galfert knows better ... 8-)
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The layout difference is the obvious difference. I've not seen one in person. My curiosity is if they improved viewing angles which were not that great in the original design. Functionally the new model support some optional sensors (not all of them) but they will not show up on the display. These optional sensors will only show up on Ambientweather.net. The WS-2000/WS-5000 will support more optional sensors. Look up sensor compatibility for this model before deciding.
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"Please feel free to add things I may have missed and I'll update this post for reference. As we get new firmware releases I'm sure there will be more differences. The point of this thread is only to point out differences."
The WS 2902 has temperature trend indicators (rising, falling, stable) that are not on the WS 2000 and I miss.
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"Please feel free to add things I may have missed and I'll update this post for reference. As we get new firmware releases I'm sure there will be more differences. The point of this thread is only to point out differences."
The WS 2902 has temperature trend indicators (rising, falling, stable) that are not on the WS 2000 and I miss.
Noted and updated. Thank you!
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Thank you for this excellent overview! The information has helped me decide between the two systems. I hope to place an Amazon order for a WS-2000 today. :grin:
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2000 has a separate barometric pressure sensor, the indication of which is of no use after you have calibrated your console... afaict?
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2000 has a separate barometric pressure sensor, the indication of which is of no use after you have calibrated your console... afaict?
The WS-2000 console has no barometric sensor built in. The included and separate barometric sensor constantly provides barometric pressure data to the console. Of course it is needed! The calibration that you do on the WS-2000 is an override of the raw data coming from that external sensor. This sensor is part # WH32B. This sensor also provides the primary indoor temperature and humidity. You can only have one WH32B. If you want additional indoor temperature and humidity then you can add up to eight WH31E sensors. In the WS-2902 all three of these sensors are built into the display.
The decision in the design of the WS-2000 for the indoor temperature and humidity sensor to be external was because the other electronics in the WS-2000 would have caused the temperature sensor to show elevated artificially heated indoor temperature if it had been an internal sensor. Therefore the existence of the WH32B became part of the WS-2000 design. It just became a matter of convenience to also include the barometric sensor with this indoor temperature sensor. The WS-2902 does not suffer from internal heating as the specification of the display are different. The LCD backlighting of the WS-2000 is probably the culprit, whereas the WS-2902 LED type display runs cool.
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the point I was trying to make - apart from a difference between 2000 & 2902 is that when you have calibrated your console the barometric reading on the separate barometric pressure/temp/humidity sensor will be different from the corrected readings on your console.
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Okay I misunderstood your point....got it.
The readout on the WH32B LCD seems to be uncorrected Absolute pressure anyway.
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Off topic pressure discussion spawned from this thread has been split to this other new thread:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=41169.0
I think we can discuss pressure related issues with Ambient and other Fine Offset clones in a different thread. There are many threads on this topic already as this is a subject matter that is complex to understand. Let's not go down that rabbit hole in this thread.
Agreed. we are going a little O.T here..No objections if it were to be moved. [UPDATE: moved to link at beginning of this post]
Yes, a rabbit hole which deserves its own thread.
Perhaps the forum should consider a sticky as there are many new users or perhaps even old users that are not calibrating or gave up calibrating their Ambient/Fine Offset weather stations. And that would be a shame.
The forum search can sometimes be a hit or miss affair depending what search terms are used so new users may not be finding the valuable older posts that can help answer their calibration questions.
A sticky with vetted forum URLs could work.
Something to think about?...
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re : Retains barometer calibration and other settings after power outage. The WS-2902A unfortunately forgets its barometric calibration and all Min Max records when you remove power and batteries as you would need to do when servicing the outdoor sensor array to not get false readings. This is annoying on the WS-2902A.
I have just accidentally come across a simple way of preventing this happening when servicing the outdoor array - just switch your router off!
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re : Retains barometer calibration and other settings after power outage. The WS-2902A unfortunately forgets its barometric calibration and all Min Max records when you remove power and batteries as you would need to do when servicing the outdoor sensor array to not get false readings. This is annoying on the WS-2902A.
I have just accidentally come across a simple way of preventing this happening when servicing the outdoor array - just switch your router off!
If you turn off your router then your console still gets bad data from erroneous rain gauge tips, wind direction updates...etc. Therefore turning off the router is not a solution. The data is coming to the console via RF and not WiFi.
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well all I can say is that it works for me
my router does not send out any data from my console when it is turned off.
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well all I can say is that it works for me
my router does not send out any data from my console when it is turned off.
I think you misunderstood galfert's comment -
he said that the console (in the context of the earlier post) receives the erroneous data from the sensors, i.e. via a radio frequency (RF) signal and not via the WiFi signal.
Hence switching off the router or the WiFi access point (which can be different things) will not have any impact on that.
Or - in laymen terms:
Switching off the light in front of the front door will not change your indoor light issue caused by a broken bulb of your kitchen lamp.
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The point of Galfert paragraph that I quoted it that to service to outdoor console without sending erroneous data to the sites you send data to, ie Weather Underground you can remove the batteries from the console but with the WS- 2902A this would lose the hard earned barometric pressure settings.
If you turn off your router these signals will not be sent out to the sites that you send data to so you do not need to remove the batteries from the WS-2902A and you will not lose the hard earned barometric pressure settings.
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My quoted paragraph says nothing about sending bad data to online services.
- Retains barometer calibration and other settings after power outage. The WS-2902A unfortunately forgets its barometric calibration and all Min Max records when you remove power and batteries as you would need to do when servicing the outdoor sensor array to not get false readings. This is annoying on the WS-2902A.
It pertains to the console itself and the data that it retains and shows you. The console receives the sensor data via radio broadcast (no WiFi). If you tip the rain gauge as you would need to do for cleaning you would cause rain tips to register on the console and that stays on the console as accumulated rainfall.
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The point of Galfert paragraph that I quoted it that to service to outdoor console without sending erroneous data to the sites you send data to, ie Weather Underground you can remove the batteries from the console but with the WS- 2902A this would lose the hard earned barometric pressure settings.
If you turn off your router these signals will not be sent out to the sites that you send data to so you do not need to remove the batteries from the WS-2902A and you will not lose the hard earned barometric pressure settings.
correct - but you still need to correct the erroneous data somehow (unless that's unimportant for you).
They won't be sent out, and they will not be sent out later - only what's the situation at the current time will be sent out once the server connection is reestablished.
What galfert meant (how I read it/him) is that in your console memory you still have the wrong data of that servicing period - and either have to correct them or leave them as they are.
The rainfall total data, as galfert pointed out, will need to be corrected anyway.
Not sure if you can correct the other wrong data, maybe you can delete them. In the WS2000/5000 console that would be the case. But it would be the whole record(s) for that period. The WS-2902 I don't know well enough.
Taking off the batteries from the console would mean having no wrong data (having no data for that period at all), but, as you say, at the cost of losing the barometric forecast for some days (and possibly also the calibration settings).
For you to decide which path you want to go down.
As we say in my language: you cannot get around having to die one (type of) death 8-)
The only other (rather hypothetical) way how to do would be taking off the batteries from all your sensors and not from the console - then there are no data recorded, or only empty data (--) recorded.
However, with a WH65 as outdoor array this becomes very difficult as taking off the batteries won't change anything. The high-capacity capacitor, once fully charged, will usually take more than two days in a dark room for itself to run out of power. Maybe after a few very short, cold and overcast winter days it will be expired and run on battery power only. But difficult to find out with layman's means when this is the case.
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Is the WS-2090A compatible with CumulusMX???
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Is the WS-2090A compatible with CumulusMX???
I have no idea. A WS-2090 is not known to me.
However, should that be a typo and you meant a WS-2902A, it should be compatible if it is on a recent WiFi firmware version.
For what WiFi firmware is (and for many more peices of information), read our thread
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=40730.0