Topic: Davis console display WLL data?

[Oilswell]

Not sure if it's possible to display the indoor temperature and humidity values on a VP2 console but would appreciate knowing if it can be done.

Right now my console is located on a window sill which gives skewed data due to the nature of its location. As such, it's typically several degrees off in temperature and humidity.

I'm going to guess the only thing that can be done is to calibrate the console to reflect the differences but if prefer being able to display the WLL data instead.

[Mattk]

Well typically the VP2 console and Vue console display the Inside and Outside Temp/Humidity side by side?

So where are you wanting to display WLL data? Can't the VP2 console display WLL data much the same as any VP2 console/ISS connection?

[Oilswell]

So far as I can tell the console reports all outside data directly from the array but the indoor sensors are in the console itself. That's why it's reporting skewed data because it's reading window sill conditions. Which are not very representational or accurate.

[Mattk]

Well yes for the inside data it is reading the inside sensors which are reporting weather sill conditions, that being where the console is. Not that familiar with the WLL but if you are trying to display the WLL indoor data on the VP2 console then I somehow doubt they will cross over?

[johnd]

No, a VP2 console cannot display WLL inside T/H - these inside data are not part of any message transmitted by wireless so it cannot be done I'm afraid. But of course any software such as the Weatherlink app on a smartphone can show the same outside data as the console and then the inside data from the WLL, so the data is available but just not on the console display.

[miraculon]

I would like Davis to make a WiFi/Ethernet display that will use the WLL data.

Something that could be hung on the wall and run on batteries would be nice.

I know that the answer to everything these days is "smartphones", but I like just glancing over at the console.

Greg H.

[johnd]

I would like Davis to make a WiFi/Ethernet display that will use the WLL data.

Something that could be hung on the wall and run on batteries would be nice.

I know that the answer to everything these days is "smartphones", but I like just glancing over at the console.

Well, most smartphone apps will run on most tablets of course, so a tablet on a stand running eg the Weatherlink app is one option that's available now. (As indeed is viewing eg weatherlink.com full-screen in a browser on a tablet.) One problem is that anything WiFi/Ethernet is going to need to be mains-powered unless you're happy charging it eg at least every few days. (I guess battery life goes up as the size of the screen increases and assuming that the battery size increase in proportion - power required for processing doesn't increase, much at least, and so the main variable is power to run the screen.)

So I think what you're looking for is a smartphone-type app but that offers a better graphical display than the WL app currently offers and also has processing built-in to process data from the WLL. I'm not aware of anything out there like this at present, but maybe I've missed it? And then we're back to the usual problem that the likely market probably isn't big enough for this to be viable as a full commercial project and so it needs to be created by an individual (if there's anyone with the required skills and interest to do so) but the cosmetics of the display do then tend to suffer because it's difficult to do well without the resource and expertise available to a commercial software house. It's obviously not inconceivable that Davis might release something but I've heard no rumours on this at all and my guess is that they'll leave it to 3rd party developers.

And if you were to allow an intermediate computer such as a Raspberry Pi into the mix then your tablet could eg just be a remote viewer on to a dashboard on a Pi running say CumulusMX or some comparable software with similar remote features. The Pi can be tiny and headless - its only downside is the slight extra complication that is entailed.

[Mattk]

I would like Davis to make a WiFi/Ethernet display that will use the WLL data.

Something that could be hung on the wall and run on batteries would be nice.

A long time ago in days gone by that would have been the Weather Echo

[alaskazimm]

Well, most smartphone apps will run on most tablets of course, so a tablet on a stand running eg the Weatherlink app is one option that's available now. (As indeed is viewing eg weatherlink.com full-screen in a browser on a tablet.) One problem is that anything WiFi/Ethernet is going to need to be mains-powered unless you're happy charging it eg at least every few days. (I guess battery life goes up as the size of the screen increases and assuming that the battery size increase in proportion - power required for processing doesn't increase, much at least, and so the main variable is power to run the screen.)

That’s the setup I have going, and it’s working quite well. I have an old Android tablet Plugged in 24/7 running the WLL app for viewing the data. I also have a Pi running Cumulus to feed data to more sites, but for me the WLL app is the best way to see the weather in real time.

[galfert]

PWS Dashboard and Weather34 are two very good options.

[johnd]

PWS Dashboard and Weather34 are two very good options.

Good products certainly, but AFAIK (?) neither supports WLL directly, which was the main follow-on to the original question (but I know the thread has already drifted somewhat - probably my fault).

But if you are using an intermediate computer (Pi, Nano etc) then yes many other options are available, though I don't believe that Meteobridge in any guise supports WLL (yet?).

The Davis 'logger' landscape gets ever more confusing!

[Mattk]

MBPro (Red) supports WeatherLink Live with a connection but not having a WLL then can't go any deeper, MBPro (Black) would also do the same based on wanting the WLL IP. 

[johnd]

MBPro (Red) supports WeatherLink Live with a connection but not having a WLL then can't go any deeper,

I'm not sure what that means, can you explain in a bit more detail please? What sort of 'connection'? WLL can only receive data direct from Vue/VP2 wireless  transmitters and can only pass data to other devices that understand the WLL API via a TCP/IP network. There is no data feed available via the traditional logger API (LOOP/LOOP2 etc). Or are you saying that MB Pro Red has been updated to support the WLL API - if so, I must have missed that?

[galfert]

if so, I must have missed that?

How could you of missed that? We have been talking back and forth about this for months. Back and forth you and me. I think you just forgot.

Yes Meteobridge supports WLL API, but it doesn't have to be a Meteobridge Pro as the Standard Meteobridge also works. It gets better, as so does Cumulus MX, Weather-Display, and WeeWX. I mention running PWS Dashboard and Weather34 and you can do so with various software.

My bet is that the next display from Davis will be an extension of WLL using its API. It could be a physical tablet or just an app or both. Davis is leaving money on the table if they don't do this. Not necessarily leaving money on the table from the sale of an app that should be free, but leaving money on the table because this is what customers want and many people are not choosing Davis solely because of their dated displays.

[johnd]

@galfert Are you on the night shift?

Ah, OK and thanks. I was looking on the wrong page of the MB documentation:

https://www.meteobridge.com/wiki/index.php/Select_Station doesn't seem to have been updated yet to show WLL compatibility;

But looking at: https://www.meteobridge.com/wiki/index.php/Hardware then yes WLL is listed.

[galfert]

@galfert Are you on the night shift?

Nah, just an early riser sometimes or working a late night other times. Working in IT means having a crazy schedule.

I think this is the link you meant
https://www.meteobridge.com/wiki/index.php/Stations

Have you had your coffee? 

[johnd]

How could you of missed that. We have been talking back and forth about this for months. Back and forth you and me. I think you just forgot.

I think that bit of memory got swapped out because it hasn't been used for several months .

But another factor, and just to go still further OT on this thread and towards the MB subforum, is that Nano has probably had more prominence recently, at least for new users, than other aspects of MB. And I'm not sure where Nano fits with WLL. Presumably WLL-compatibility has not been added to Nano? (I know it maybe wouldn't be a prime application but it might be possible in principle with Nano just using the console as a power supply and a real-time display.)

So, as Mattk correctly pointed out to me upthread, WLL is compatible with the other flavours of MB, ie Red, Black or homebrew? Probably not a lot of point in using Red with WLL because you're just duplicating the radio circuitry. But, thinking out aloud, maybe this opens up a new application for Black as a turnkey product?

[johnd]

I think this is the link you meant
https://www.meteobridge.com/wiki/index.php/Stations

Yes indeed, rather than hardware. That's what happens when you quickly click to an alternative page before copying the link! 

Have you had your coffee? 

Not really a big coffee drinker, just trying to do too many things at once on Monday morning!

[galfert]

But another factor, and just to go still further OT on this thread and towards the MB subforum, is that Nano has probably had more prominence recently, at least for new users, than other aspects of MB. And I'm not sure where Nano fits with WLL. Presumably WLL-compatibility has not been added to Nano? (I know it maybe wouldn't be a prime application but it might be possible in principle with Nano just using the console as a power supply and a real-time display.)

The NANO can not get data from anywhere but from the console it is plugged into (display or Envoy). So it would not be able to get data from WLL. I'm not a fan of the NANO for this reason. I don't think the investment will be compatible with what I feel will be the next move from Davis. It is a dead end is what I'm saying.

So, as Mattk correctly pointed out to me upthread, WLL is compatible with the other flavours of MB, ie Red, Black or homebrew? Probably not a lot of point in using Red with WLL because you're just duplicating the radio circuitry. But, thinking out aloud, maybe this opens up a new application for Black as a turnkey product?

Yes Meteobridge Pro Black is better (more features) than NANO and a better value than Red. You pair up Black with WLL and that beats the NANO in terms of features and being ready for what comes next.

[galfert]

(I know it maybe wouldn't be a prime application but it might be possible in principle with Nano just using the console as a power supply and a real-time display.)

If the NANO could receive a firmware update to get data from the WLL and only use the display console for power that would be a neat trick. But then the display would just do its own thing as I don't believe the NANO can send data to the display. The logger port is probably designed for data output not input.

[johnd]

Yes Meteobridge Pro Black is better (more features) than NANO and a better value than Red. You pair up Black with WLL and that beats the NANO in terms of features and being ready for what comes next.

Main problem is cost of Black though. You can build a Pi running CumulusMX for say $50-100, depending on what accessories you might already have to hand. Black (or indeed Nano) is maybe 3x that.

I know you'll say that you can make a homebrew MB for much less and that is true of course. But a lot of new users are not specially computer savvy (yes of course they cause use smartphones, browsers, email etc, but that's a different skillset from configuring or flashing a new device) and can be daunted by the idea of sourcing one of these simple routers but of a particular type and then doing things to it, ie breaking it and then reinventing it as something different. We know it's not that difficult at all but that's not necessarily how it appears to a new user.

Of course a Pi needs setting up too. But the Pi ecosystem is much better known and more familiar to people so the energy barrier to doing this with a Pi is arguably much less. And actually if someone started selling SD cards with Raspberry Pi OS (the new name for Raspbian apparently) and with eg CumulusMX and whatever else already installed and configured that would make it into close to a turnkey product. I understand the commercial reasons why Boris doesn't want do something similar for MB (which would surely be readily possible), but I do think this is a shame and would expand the MB take-up considerably.

Edit: Just to pull out the point: I know that some hobbyists enjoy playing with the hardware, flashing it etc etc. But there are many more who would very much prefer a turnkey solution to display their data to best advantage.

[johnd]

But then the display would just do its own thing as I don't believe the NANO can send data to the display. The logger port is probably designed for data output not input.

No sorry I didn't mean that the console display would get its data from Nano, but simply that the console would continue to operate as normal, ie receiving data from the transmitters. Just because Nano has access to the console data pins doesn't mean that they have to be used.

So just edging 1% back to the OP's original question this wouldn't solve the problem of getting the WLL inside T/H on to the console display 

[galfert]

No sorry I didn't mean that the console display would get its data from Nano, but simply that the console would continue to operate as normal, ie receiving data from the transmitters. Just because Nano has access to the console data pins doesn't mean that they have to be used.

Ok good agreed. I wanted to clear that up.

So just edging 1% back to the OP's original question this wouldn't solve the problem of getting the WLL inside T/H on to the console display 

Yeah if OP wants a display on the sill with adequate indoor temperature then the only solution is to use a different display like tablet or old repurposed smartphone.

Another solution that I'm sure many people overlook is to plug in the Raspberry Pi into the family room TV into an unused HDMI port. Then you turn on the TV, switch input on remote to HDMI 2 or 3 or whatever, and there is your live data with your preferred 3rd party software. But yes the Raspberry Pi is not a turnkey solution. The neat thing here is that the Pi is still accessible via other computers as if it were headless. Many people talk about running a Pi headless but there are usually unused inputs on people's TVs is my point.