Topic: Are we ready for the next pandemic?

[johnd]

Here's a lecture from October 2018 at the Royal Institution (where Faraday and many other famous scientists have lectured) in London, which might be of interest to anyone with a little time to spare. It's mostly an overview of  major epidemics over the past 100 years - 2018 being the centenary of the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic of course - but does look forwards a little too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en06PYwvpbI

Short Q&A session follows in a separate video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz1mvraetEU

A quick heads-up: This is a scientific lecture in a lecture theatre setting so does need a little sustained focus. But the content is good and, as usual with Ri lectures, pretty authoritative.

[Aardvark]

If and when we get through this stuff, we need to stockpile in quantity of ventilators, masks, PPE and all that . Hospitals need not to do beautification projects but build more beds, and rooms to stockpile.

[SoMDWx]

The problem with this is while more beds are great/needed, it's like Miami Int'l buying millions of dollars on snow removal equipment. will most likely never need them or use them but the cost of storage, maintenance, etc is cost-prohibitive.

[Aardvark]

The problem with this is while more beds are great/needed, it's like Miami Int'l buying millions of dollars on snow removal equipment. will most likely never need them or use them but the cost of storage, maintenance, etc is cost-prohibitive.

You are sure about that? 

[SoMDWx]

Huh? Am I sure? Never said i was... Stats point to this to this kind of mindset due to restricted state and county funding....

With that said, the very opposite is possible also: That the Us will be mass producing masks and other stuff for years to come, well past the end of COVID-19 (if it ever ends).

[vreihen]

Hospitals need not to do beautification projects but build more beds, and rooms to stockpile.

Our local hospital's last beautification project converted a lot of double rooms into large single rooms, but left all of the plumbing for a second bed in place.  They can bill for a single room on normal days, but double-up (no second TV) just by wheeling in another bed and re-hanging the divider curtains in an emergency.....

[wxthomson]

The problem with this is while more beds are great/needed, it's like Miami Int'l buying millions of dollars on snow removal equipment. will most likely never need them or use them but the cost of storage, maintenance, etc is cost-prohibitive.

I would agree. Hospitals are very expensive to build and operate.  Those extra rooms need heat and A/C.
They also have to be kept as sterile as the occupied rooms

Maybe a better solution would be to have the capability to convert other spaces into medical facilities when needed.
Spaces like meeting rooms at convention centers or high school gymnasiums or other spaces.
Not as good as hospitals but, as a temporary solution, potentially much less expensive .

[ocala]

Or, as we are seeing now the ability to erect temporary facilities.
This all a learning process for everyone. 

[Aardvark]

How were we not prepared for this one?  That is a place to start, and what should we have had in place that we didn't.   

I think we need more ventilators made in our country and stockpiled .  Hospitals need to buy them at a set price and have one for each bed in their hospital. These things wear out.  They need to improve infection control. In Iowa, nursing homes, infection control is responsible for the Covid Deaths. 
We need gloves, masks, gowns,shoe coverings in huge quantities, stored in places where they will be safe from floods,water leaks, and all those things.

We need lawmakers to make contingency plans for things like this, both on the state, local and on the national level.  We need watchdogs watching trends in infectious diseases and for a backup plan in case our leaders tend to ignore this.

So are we ready?  No, not now.   Recall "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are destined to repeat it."

[SoMDWx]

AS they say, hindsight is 20/20....

[ValentineWeather]

How were we not prepared for this one?  That is a place to start, and what should we have had in place that we didn't.   

I think we need more ventilators made in our country and stockpiled .  Hospitals need to buy them at a set price and have one for each bed in their hospital. These things wear out.  They need to improve infection control. In Iowa, nursing homes, infection control is responsible for the Covid Deaths. 
We need gloves, masks, gowns,shoe coverings in huge quantities, stored in places where they will be safe from floods,water leaks, and all those things.

We need lawmakers to make contingency plans for things like this, both on the state, local and on the national level.  We need watchdogs watching trends in infectious diseases and for a backup plan in case our leaders tend to ignore this.

So are we ready?  No, not now.   Recall "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are destined to repeat it."

Hospitals rarely use ventilators. Wasting billions on medical supplies that will never be used again isn't smart. I'm against making as many as they are now. #1 they will get old as proven many shipped out didn't work caused from just sitting around. Having a few new units every year is the smart way to do it.
Fix the problem never allow another pandemic by promptly closing (ALL) air travel to the world should another outbreak occur. Yes and bring our medical supply line back home.

[Aardvark]

How were we not prepared for this one?  That is a place to start, and what should we have had in place that we didn't.   

I think we need more ventilators made in our country and stockpiled .  Hospitals need to buy them at a set price and have one for each bed in their hospital. These things wear out.  They need to improve infection control. In Iowa, nursing homes, infection control is responsible for the Covid Deaths. 
We need gloves, masks, gowns,shoe coverings in huge quantities, stored in places where they will be safe from floods,water leaks, and all those things.

We need lawmakers to make contingency plans for things like this, both on the state, local and on the national level.  We need watchdogs watching trends in infectious diseases and for a backup plan in case our leaders tend to ignore this.

So are we ready?  No, not now.   Recall "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are destined to repeat it."

Hospitals rarely use ventilators. Wasting billions on medical supplies that will never be used again isn't smart. I'm against making as many as they are now. #1 they will get old as proven many shipped out didn't work caused from just sitting around. Having a few new units every year is the smart way to do it.
Fix the problem never allow another pandemic by promptly closing (ALL) air travel to the world should another outbreak occur. Yes and bring our medical supply line back home.

Yeah they do use ventilators, perhaps with your experience isn't that way.  Yeah,  next time around,see  ya

[ValentineWeather]

How were we not prepared for this one?  That is a place to start, and what should we have had in place that we didn't.   

I think we need more ventilators made in our country and stockpiled .  Hospitals need to buy them at a set price and have one for each bed in their hospital. These things wear out.  They need to improve infection control. In Iowa, nursing homes, infection control is responsible for the Covid Deaths. 
We need gloves, masks, gowns,shoe coverings in huge quantities, stored in places where they will be safe from floods,water leaks, and all those things.

We need lawmakers to make contingency plans for things like this, both on the state, local and on the national level.  We need watchdogs watching trends in infectious diseases and for a backup plan in case our leaders tend to ignore this.

So are we ready?  No, not now.   Recall "Those who fail to learn the lessons of history, are destined to repeat it."

Hospitals rarely use ventilators. Wasting billions on medical supplies that will never be used again isn't smart. I'm against making as many as they are now. #1 they will get old as proven many shipped out didn't work caused from just sitting around. Having a few new units every year is the smart way to do it.
Fix the problem never allow another pandemic by promptly closing (ALL) air travel to the world should another outbreak occur. Yes and bring our medical supply line back home.

Yeah they do use ventilators, perhaps with your experience isn't that way.  Yeah,  next time around,see  ya

No, I'll see ya. Just got off the phone with the Cherry County Hospital they have a total of 4 ventilators and ICU beds. Don't take my word for it call ( 402) 376-2525 and ask for the administrator.
Ventilators are used for life support usually end of life having one for each bed is asinine.  He actually laughed when I mentioned someone was suggesting this should be the norm.

[Aardvark]

I am out of this discussion.   I have my opinion and having to debate this is a waste of the time I have left.  So count me out of here.    And if unfortunately you get this thing, and they want to put you on a vent, don't accept it, tell them you know more than anyone.  Now go fly a kite, it is windy enough.  bye.

[ValentineWeather]

I am out of this discussion.   I have my opinion and having to debate this is a waste of the time I have left.  So count me out of here.    And if unfortunately you get this thing, and they want to put you on a vent, don't accept it, tell them you know more than anyone.  Now go fly a kite, it is windy enough.  bye.

You don't want to debate unless it includes bashing a political party. I'll keep calling you on it every time.

[galfert]

I have no idea why this conversation had to go down this path of disrespect for a differing opinion. Nobody here is right or wrong. Opinions are just that, different views on solving problems, with different risks and assessments and goals.

If you really believe in your opinion and that it has merit, then I dare you to defend it without insult to others. Throwing insults is what you do when you lost the debate.

[ocala]

What I think this site needs is a political forum. That way ya'll can go over there and scream and yell at each other and the rest of don't have to hear it.

[ValentineWeather]

What I think this site needs is a political forum. That way ya'll can go over there and scream and yell at each other and the rest of don't have to hear it.

Not a bad idea actually. Have a political pit.

[galfert]

What I think this site needs is a political forum. That way ya'll can go over there and scream and yell at each other and the rest of don't have to hear it.

I don't think that is the solution. You can't expect people to be allowed to bite each other's heads off in some section of this site, and then act like as if nothing in the other parts of the site. There is going to be spill over and held over animosity. If people want to discuss politics then there are plenty of places to do that on other sites.

[ocala]

What I think this site needs is a political forum. That way ya'll can go over there and scream and yell at each other and the rest of don't have to hear it.

I don't think that is the solution. You can't expect people to be allowed to bite each other's heads off in some section of this site, and then act like as if nothing in the other parts of the site. There is going to be spill over and held over animosity. If people want to discuss politics then there are plenty of places to do that on other sites.

If there is spill over and animosity then you as a mod drop the hammer and ban them for a set amount of time. Excessive bans result in expulsion. Problem solved.
Besides, those sites are great entertainment. 
A Browns forum I visit has a politics forum. Listening to those people go back and forth is hilarious.

[chief-david]

ditto with the Chiefs forum/political thread. oh my is that a cluster.

[ValentineWeather]

I have no idea why this conversation had to go down this path of disrespect for a differing opinion. Nobody here is right or wrong. Opinions are just that, different views on solving problems, with different risks and assessments and goals.

If you really believe in your opinion and that it has merit, then I dare you to defend it without insult to others. Throwing insults is what you do when you lost the debate.

 

I'm all for keeping politics out of it but you seem only concerned when conservatives bite back. That's the problem here. It offends me and others I get multiple PM's about it when someone is continually taking jabs at their political party of choice. I just want to discuss the weather and virus without taking jabs every opportunity that arises. If you don't see the issue in his above post that's not my problem.  It's been made very clear who he wants recalled and thrown out and despises over and over again.

Iowa still doesn't have a stay at home order. Governor Reynolds,  a Republican, doesn't think we need it. That Iowans are doing the right thing.  this picture was taken on April 4th downtown.  She is an idiot.

I disagree with Trump, the Iowa GOv and others.  Dr. Fauci says 10 weeks and it won't be over by Easter.   It is not us that sets the timeline, the virus sets the timeline.

Notice Iowa still refuses. Why?  The leaders are mentally deficient and have no , well you know.    I am about to the point of screaming out loud if Gov. Reynolds and her blonde side kick once more says, "we are looking at the metrics,"  rather than say, "I am issuing a stay at home order now."
[/quote]

[ValentineWeather]

Another thought I've often wondered? Why come to a forum and air your laundry about politics? Nobody is going to change another person's mind when it comes to politics. I actually have friends and family on the other side we just don't go there. Best for all.

[ocala]

Another thought I've often wondered? Why come to a forum and air your laundry about politics? Nobody is going to change another person's mind when it comes to politics. I actually have friends and family on the other side we just don't go there. Best for all.

Agree 100%, but this is way off the topic johnd started.
Let's get back to that.

[SnowHiker]

One problem is politics seems to permeate everything.  Even the weather and natural disasters.

And we are quick to attack, even if it means changing the words and intent of others.  If you make a joke someone will quickly take it out of context.  (But I do realize I have a dry sense of humor that sometimes is hard to read, and maybe sometimes I don't understand someone else's humor.)

Like on this thread someone says ventilators are rarely used, and someone else acts like he said ventilators are never used and not needed and that he doesn't care about lives, rather than addressing the points of the post.

I've tried a quick search to find out how many deaths so far in New York may have been attributed to a lack of ventilators as, if I understand, NYC has reached what is hopefully its peak hospitalization and death rate.  All I found so far is alarming headlines that hospitals could run out of ventilators.  I'm sure if all the warnings come true blame will be placed on the other party, and if everything turns out well the other party won't get credit.  It's rather amazing how politicized crises have become.  It's almost as if people are rooting for the worst so they can blame someone.  It is a fact that there were more ventilators available under our last Democrat president than there were under the Republican President Lincoln.  Maybe someone else knows the current status of supply vs. need, and how many deaths, if any, are attributed to lack of ventilators?

Maybe we could continually be prepared for the next pandemic with all kinds of equipment that will hopefully end up going to waste, but there will always be some trade offs on how we take care of those with chronic diseases and things now.  For that matter, we could potentially save a lot of lives if we permanently evacuated all the places near the San Andreas Fault, and evacuated Florida and the Gulf Coast during the entire hurricane season rather than waiting until the last minute.

Every crisis will be different, and as mentioned hindsight is 20/20.  Some things that were criticized as being unnecessary are now being criticized for not being done soon enough.  It will always be that way.  And perhaps people's nerves are raw for having their lives disrupted.