Topic: Car stuff again, this time oil and synthetic

[DaleReid]

For decades I've heard that some mechanics have very strong beliefs about the brand of oil to use.  Penzoil, great stuff.  Penzoil, crap from a jug.

The general trend was that some oils came almost exclusively from some areas and had high sulfur, or poor base qualities which translated into barely-adequate protection.

I got thinking, beyond the fact that almost none of the mechanics I know have their own lab and staff conducting tests on each brand so wouldn't have a factual basis for making any of their loyalty claims, that most crude oil comes from all over this country and may be perhaps blended now.  Quaker State is almost assuredly not just pumped in Pennsylvania any more.  It is more like wines mixed for Two Buck Chuck than that vintage which was grown on the uphill slope of some vineyard and very specific to a tiny plot of land with certain trace elements and bacteria growing in that region.

So i am coming to a thought-experiment conclusion that commercial lubricating oil is oil, and the former brand difference may not be as pronounced ad a few generations ago.

The other question is that with synthetics being basically manufactured molecules now, any prior regional differences would be even less of a factor.  Other than the additives, if the base molecule is refined and more pure, companies would like to make the best product they can with this synthesized production.  Therefore do synthetic oils differ even less from brand to brand than mineral oils did?

[Aardvark]

I am not certain what this has to do with weather, but since you are from Wisconsin, ok

I use what the dealership puts in, a synthetic that seems to do the job.  However, I have to assume it is one notch better than what the garage down the street uses probably something drained out of one car and put into another. 

Brand names such as "Penzoil, Quacker State" have been bought and put on other products as well.  I guess the best is what you trust and use for the climate.   I remember when we would put in one weight for summer and a different weight for winter.  Then the all season and eventually synthetics as the engine changed.

Of course one could argue why anyone in their right mind would have the air in their tires replaced with nitrogen,  even some pink air added. 

[Vasco]

. . . do synthetic oils differ even less from brand to brand than mineral oils did?

I use what the dealership puts in, a synthetic that seems to do the job.

I don't know the answer to Dale's question. . . but synthetic oil would probably be good for 100,000 miles so why does the dealership change it every year when you do 10,000 or less?


(As it "cost" about 65 GBP per UK gallon when I last had it changed in 2018 I think I can guess the answer. . .    )

[DaleReid]

Aardvark:
This is only tangentially related to weather, but Chit Chat group has the distinction of (so far) having the blessing of the owner to discuss anything that doesn't fit any where else, except for politics and religion.

I've had some very helpful discussions, and the neat thing is that many of the readers of this group have  very excellent and varied backgrounds with real life experience, not just 'end of bar' learning that some people preach knowing something about when there really are no facts.  It has been a wonderful forum branch and a lot of fun.

I too recall having to do the winter weight and summer weight oils.  A pain.  My now long deceased dad and uncle told of having an old early car and when they ventured out in very cold weather, would park the car by the friends, the 'women folk' would run inside while the men would jack up a rear tire and drain the oil from the engine into a pan which then they put by the wood fired stove to keep it warm. When it was time to leave, everyone got bundled up (no ski jackets or down comforters) and the men would take the oil out, dump it in the engine and then crank the engine until it started.  With no true clutch, the hind wheel would rotate easily and allow a faster crank so the magneto would fire the engine somewhat easier.

Then Bendix came along....

The other risky story was if it was very cold and the car hadn't been started in awhile, they'd build a charcoal fire in a flat pan and once going , slide it under the car to have the rising heat try to impart some warmth to the block.  I don't think I'd have nerve enough to do that!

The whole gist of the comment about using what oil you trust and feel OK with lends itself to the idea that most of us have very limited numbers of engines we own, and we don't skimp on oil or such since if one goes out, it s a very expensive experiment. 

I'm sure the government has taken say 100 identical engines, treated 50 with one oil, the other with the other brand, and then every couple hundred hours have a skilled mechanic with no horse in the race tear it down, take measurements, do careful oil and filter analysis to see if one is better than the other.  This is something that ordinary people can't do for time and financial reasons.

The 'impressions' that some mechanics have about using only Brand X in their engines and they looked immaculate when they tore one down after 10 years or something is purely anecdotal.  And if  you are on a family vacation in the middle of Utah at 9000 feet in hot weather, the last thing I want is anecdotal facts guiding me.

My dad said as we changed the farm tractors' oil that it was cheap compared to doing an engine overhaul and the time lost when you were working long hours and your tractor coughed up a piston.

Any way, there seems to be almost no real facts available, so I was requesting the experience of those learned folks who hang out at this end of the bar.
Dale

[CW2274]

. . . do synthetic oils differ even less from brand to brand than mineral oils did?

I use what the dealership puts in, a synthetic that seems to do the job.

I don't know the answer to Dale's question. . . but synthetic oil would probably be good for 100,000 miles

  Thank God I'm not your engine.

[CW2274]

Oil chemistry varies greatly. The more high-strung/high power your motor is, usually dictates what you should run. Don't put cheap oil in your Vet, AMG, M car, Porsche, ect. "Regular" engines, not as big of a deal.

[Vasco]

  Thank God I'm not your engine.

I've only done 3,000 miles since the last "service" - and the car's worth nothing now we're about to get a ULEZ zone 

[CW2274]

  Thank God I'm not your engine.

I've only done 3,000 miles since the last "service" - and the car's worth nothing now we're about to get a ULEZ zone 

Ahhh, yes. Enjoy. 

[Aardvark]

. . . do synthetic oils differ even less from brand to brand than mineral oils did?

I have a new car, it comes with free oil changes for 5 years.   Twice a year, I go for it. Plus a looksie for anything going bad.   So far so good.  BUT they do use a synthetic oil, as they claim.  Since it is on warranty, I let them do as they choose, not wanting to give any leeway for getting out of the warranty.

[Aardvark]

Aardvark:
This is only tangentially related to weather, but Chit Chat group has the distinction of (so far) having the blessing of the owner to discuss anything that doesn't fit any where else, except for politics and religion.

I've had some very helpful discussions, and the neat thing is that many of the readers of this group have  very excellent and varied backgrounds with real life experience, not just 'end of bar' learning that some people preach knowing something about when there really are no facts.  It has been a wonderful forum branch and a lot of fun.

I too recall having to do the winter weight and summer weight oils.  A pain.  My now long deceased dad and uncle told of having an old early car and when they ventured out in very cold weather, would park the car by the friends, the 'women folk' would run inside while the men would jack up a rear tire and drain the oil from the engine into a pan which then they put by the wood fired stove to keep it warm. When it was time to leave, everyone got bundled up (no ski jackets or down comforters) and the men would take the oil out, dump it in the engine and then crank the engine until it started.  With no true clutch, the hind wheel would rotate easily and allow a faster crank so the magneto would fire the engine somewhat easier.

Then Bendix came along....

The other risky story was if it was very cold and the car hadn't been started in awhile, they'd build a charcoal fire in a flat pan and once going , slide it under the car to have the rising heat try to impart some warmth to the block.  I don't think I'd have nerve enough to do that!

The whole gist of the comment about using what oil you trust and feel OK with lends itself to the idea that most of us have very limited numbers of engines we own, and we don't skimp on oil or such since if one goes out, it s a very expensive experiment. 

I'm sure the government has taken say 100 identical engines, treated 50 with one oil, the other with the other brand, and then every couple hundred hours have a skilled mechanic with no horse in the race tear it down, take measurements, do careful oil and filter analysis to see if one is better than the other.  This is something that ordinary people can't do for time and financial reasons.

The 'impressions' that some mechanics have about using only Brand X in their engines and they looked immaculate when they tore one down after 10 years or something is purely anecdotal.  And if  you are on a family vacation in the middle of Utah at 9000 feet in hot weather, the last thing I want is anecdotal facts guiding me.

My dad said as we changed the farm tractors' oil that it was cheap compared to doing an engine overhaul and the time lost when you were working long hours and your tractor coughed up a piston.

Any way, there seems to be almost no real facts available, so I was requesting the experience of those learned folks who hang out at this end of the bar.
Dale

wait,wait, I remember you on another forum, getting all upset if anyone questioned you or difference of opinion--- Weather Matrix.     
Excuse me for having a difference of opinion.  I won't come by again. Heaven forbid

[DaleReid]

Aardvark:
My sincere apologies if I've offended you. 

I enjoy exchanging information and learning.

I'm not sure what Weather Matrix is, so you possibly may have mistaken me for someone else.

Again, apologies and I encourage you to come often and have a difference of opinion, if you have one.
Dale

[CW2274]

Wow, Dale's right. It's meant for "whatever". Find something worth worrying about... like anthropogenic climate change...   

[Vasco]

Find something worth worrying about... like anthropogenic climate change...   

We may have helped to bring about climate change, but there is nothing we can now do to reverse that. . . so don't worry about it.


We won't be around to see it, but the planet will survive - as it has for many climate changes in the past.


Cold comfort?

[CW2274]

Find something worth worrying about... like anthropogenic climate change...   

We may have helped to bring about climate change, but there is nothing we can now do to reverse that. . . so don't worry about it.

Don't worry? When I see what trillions of $$$$$ are wanting to be spent on a complete waste of time, other than lining pockets, yeah, I worry. Don't forget the umbrellas to block out the sun!