Author Topic: Interference and Noise  (Read 93189 times)

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Offline W3DRM

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #100 on: May 30, 2014, 11:21:54 AM »
=D>
Many of you who've ordered E field kits, and have had issues with interference on the H field location are going to be pleasantly surprised.
I had determined my environment was heavily H field noise, with little or no E field issues, but was still a bit concerned, being who and what I am.
Some of my EMI is 'seasonal', so the jury is still out on what the environment will be like come cold weather, but the E Probe picks up little or none of the signals from nearby Axle plant that causes issues with my N/S H field. Also no plasma TV, believe it or not, from next door, and little or nothing from the same vapor lights that periodically mess with H field.
What E field does have is high gain. Experiments show it exceeds the H-field in many respects, so Interference mode comes simply from too dang many signals exceeding threshold.

With 5 channels running, instead of 2, it can be tricky to see where any interference is coming from. However, I've learned it's almost never related to the E field probe, and almost always due to my A amp Ch1, (the N/S aimed at the axle factory ferrite  :-)  )

The point is, I think, that if you've had issues with H field reception, you may do a lot better adding E field.

Cheers!

Mike - just thinking out loud here - what happens with your H-field noise levels if you rotate your antenna by 45° one way or the other? Do they increase or decrease? Of course, it may then get picked-up on both antennas...
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #101 on: May 30, 2014, 12:19:43 PM »
Mike - just thinking out loud here - what happens with your H-field noise levels if you rotate your antenna by 45° one way or the other? Do they increase or decrease? Of course, it may then get picked-up on both antennas...
Correct. The axle factory moves to both channels... Now, the Plasma used to mess with E/W antenna till I conned my neighbor into moving it into another corner, so it'd mostly hit N/S.  Stay on the utility company's butt about the outdoor lighting on them dang poles. Neighbor across the street has a riding mower with bad ignition wires, kinda fun to watch him move from west to east on the H field, but, believe it or not, the E field seems to ignore it.
Believe me also... there's only one sweet spot for lowest H field within 50 ft of where I'm sitting. Took a couple of months to find it, but I did. It is nice that I'm able to orient the ferrites E/W and N/S for other reasons.

Eventually I'll get my ferrites off the cardboard and into a weathermount... I think I've found another sweet spot 6 ft off the ground inside one of the Holly trees from whence the website draws its name.  :twisted:

Funny, we chased EMI for months, the first few of us.... don't hear a lot from you newbies... maybe our pain helped y'all.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 12:22:58 PM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 


Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #102 on: May 30, 2014, 12:21:38 PM »
Oh, btw... rotating the antennas horizontally  is one way to begin isolating direction of EMI.. 'course you don't have that asset with the E field Probe...
 


Offline W3DRM

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #103 on: May 30, 2014, 04:26:10 PM »
Oh, btw... rotating the antennas horizontally  is one way to begin isolating direction of EMI.. 'course you don't have that asset with the E field Probe...

Well, you might be able to get some idea simply by laying the vertical antenna flat and rotating it and looking for a good null or dip in the received levels. I've done that with mobile verticals to find noise sources. It mostly depends on how far away the noise source is from the antenna. Too close, and it may saturate the input and not give you any kind of a null. Can't hurt to try though. It will be just one more piece of the learning curve.
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Offline fpalafox

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #104 on: June 14, 2014, 10:25:08 PM »
Thank you guys for your post! I am new in blitzortung station. My red station was working with some interference, but today is interfered for las 24 hours. I was moving my e-field antenna but no changes, then i removed the coaxial cable from the amp input and my surprise is the signal still inside. Then i moved the amp gain to minimal 1x1x16 and signal still present. Looks like is autogenerated by amplifier. Please check my atach and comments are very welcome. Thank you .
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #105 on: June 15, 2014, 07:10:58 AM »
You signals look good this morning... http://ourspecial.net/twinhollies/weathercenter/blitz/fp1023/index.html
we can explore as the interference returns...

If you'd move your E field amplifier to the #2 controller connection, instead of #1, we'd all be looking at the same color signals. Red and green and yellow have us thinking an H field signal...
the amp2 input produces magenta, blue and orange signals. We're all trying to stay with the same display when we look at each other's signals to assist someone... We run H field on amplifier one, and e field on amp 2... follow me?  ;)

Mike
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 07:14:41 AM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 


Offline fpalafox

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #106 on: June 15, 2014, 02:35:26 PM »
Thank you Mike! I moved ampl to input 2. You right, interference is not there!!! Yesterday after my post here i take out my ampl card and clean every parts, i hope this fix the issue!
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #107 on: June 15, 2014, 04:53:26 PM »
Thank you Mike! I moved ampl to input 2. You right, interference is not there!!! Yesterday after my post here i take out my ampl card and clean every parts, i hope this fix the issue!
Yes, interference can occur at times, and at different seasons. Keep an eye on it, and see if or when it returns... I think you mentioned that you had it earlier, at night.  Now, many of us have gained experience at tracking down H field noise, so we'll all learn together about E field... it's somewhat different.  Since you may have some 'intermittent' noise source, you'll be a 'pioneer' in this area, and probably a big help to others!
 


Offline Weather Spares

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #108 on: June 16, 2014, 04:34:56 PM »
Any thoughts on this signal. It repeats pretty much most of the time on Amp 1 Channel A (the red line) It dips above and below the main 0v centre line and occasionally has a sharp drop either up or down :(



I also have the message

Amplifier 1 - PCB 12.3 - FW 1.7
CommunicationRx: 2m, 24s ago / Tx: 2m, 24s ago
Channel A TriggerConflict with shared channel (wanted 1798mV). Desired gain can not be reached!
Gains1 * 1 * 40 = Total Gain 40
Noise1397mVpp

The signal is so smooth, could this be a problem with the newly built AMP?
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #109 on: June 16, 2014, 04:42:43 PM »
Yeah, Enable "advanced Channel Mapping" ??? ... see our start-up thread. the initial post... http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=22710.0
Won't do anything about the interference, perhaps, but get started good, with E on amp 2, advanced channel mapping enabled so the antennas operate on the same amplifiers, and we can go from there....

Mike...
 


Offline Weather Spares

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #110 on: June 16, 2014, 04:54:57 PM »
I have alternate channel mapping enabled as per that post, is it the same thing or am I missing something else?
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #111 on: June 16, 2014, 05:01:09 PM »
I have alternate channel mapping enabled as per that post, is it the same thing or am I missing something else?
Yes...  Ok... needed to make sure,... you can turn off "force all channels on" for now, if it's on.

I've not seen this issue.. are you just running  E field for now? and It's on amp 2? 
I Had a similar problem with channel A as far as the signal goes, a cold solder joint in the amp on one of the A amp IC's... it's the gain/ threshold error that's throwing me right now. The only power supply connected is to the controller, right?

If you've got your preamp and probe inside, near computers, etc it could explain part of the interference...
What's your red station number?
 


Offline Weather Spares

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #112 on: June 16, 2014, 05:08:07 PM »
E-Field is on Amp two, and running fine.

The signal is appearing on the H-field, Amp 1. I've rotated the antennas through 90 degrees to see if it's picked up by the other antenna, but no change.

The unit is powered by a 5v supply only on the controller board and both amps are connected by STP cables.

All computer equipment is at minimum of 20m from the Red equipment.

I'm station no 1039 - United Kingdom, Barrow, Bury St Edmunds Suffolk (must update my forum sign :))

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or help.
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #113 on: June 16, 2014, 05:34:06 PM »
E-Field is on Amp two, and running fine.

The signal is appearing on the H-field, Amp 1. I've rotated the antennas through 90 degrees to see if it's picked up by the other antenna, but no change.

The unit is powered by a 5v supply only on the controller board and both amps are connected by STP cables.

All computer equipment is at minimum of 20m from the Red equipment.

I'm station no 1039 - United Kingdom, Barrow, Bury St Edmunds Suffolk (must update my forum sign :))

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or help.
I'll check more later... I'd first take my A amp board, touch a hot soldering iron to every SMD pin on the board that handles channel A... that may very well fix it.
 


Offline meteo-melin

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #114 on: June 17, 2014, 05:35:27 AM »
Hello,

Can someone help me with a huge noise problem?
The station recieves a lot of signals since I moved it in the capital :D

Here is a video of the signals it gets: http://www.meteomelin.be/files/signals.mp4

Note that the amp/antenna are not the problem because it worked very well in another place.

So, does someone have an idea from where those signals could come from? 

Station 680 Region 1 :D

Thanks :)
Clément
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Offline dfroula

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #115 on: June 17, 2014, 09:28:00 AM »
This looks like the noise I was seeing when I added shielding to the ferrite antennas, but had not grounded the system through the controller.

I have seen similar noise when shielding was used on the ferrites, but the signal/ground connection(s) at the amp board were reversed so that the shield(s) was connected to the non-grounded input of the amp.

Best,

Don
WD9DMP

Offline Weather Spares

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #116 on: June 18, 2014, 05:55:16 AM »
Further to the weird Red signal on channel A above, I've completed the following:

Recheck all solder joints on components of input A.
Reheat and ensure SMC chips are seated correctly - or as correct as I can see through a magnifying glass with fine iron.
Rotate the board 90 degrees to see if the signal is external and picked up by input B (it isn’t).
Swap the input A and input B ferrite antenna to see if there is a ferrite problem (problem stays on the amp).
Swap input 1 and input 2 on the controller board, the fault follows the Amplifier.
Changed the USB PSU in case its a problem.
Removed the ferrite antennas.

All these still point to the problem somewhere on the AMP. I have also popped an email across to Egon to see if he can shed any light on it. Forgot to order the GPS antenna, so that should be with me before the end of the week - far too much excitement.

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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #117 on: June 25, 2014, 11:13:21 AM »
Here's what appears to be a 32KHz source... from a new station startup:
It's generating 64KHz, 96Khz and 128KHz harmonics and 48, 60, 92 subs or beats.

More info as it resolves :D
Question: what is the most common use of 32Khz?  :twisted: Got it???
Mike  06/25/2014
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 11:27:58 PM by Cutty Sark Sailor »
 


Offline Weather Spares

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #118 on: June 25, 2014, 02:55:52 PM »
Just as a quick update, an electronics engineer took a look at my amplifier and it looks like he has found my funny wave form cause.

Somehow I had confused a 6.8k and 68k resistor when checking them with a meter prior to installing them on both channels - the other channel was acting fine as it has a dry joint on one of the ICs  :oops:
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Offline Knickohr

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #119 on: June 26, 2014, 03:29:51 AM »
"Question: what is the most common use of 32Khz?  :twisted: Got it???"

Crystals for chronometers !

Thomas

Offline dfroula

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #120 on: June 26, 2014, 07:39:42 AM »
You mean the incorrect part was installed on both channels, but a high-resistance solder connection on one was allowing it to work?

That's not fair when two issues cancel each other out!  :-)

Glad you got it sorted!

Best regards,

Don
WD9DMP

Just as a quick update, an electronics engineer took a look at my amplifier and it looks like he has found my funny wave form cause.

Somehow I had confused a 6.8k and 68k resistor when checking them with a meter prior to installing them on both channels - the other channel was acting fine as it has a dry joint on one of the ICs  :oops:

Offline Weather Spares

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2014, 04:16:00 PM »
Thanks for everyones support here - and that of the said engineer if he reads this forum :)

I should be up and running again very soon - yeah!!
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Offline Cutty Sark Sailor

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #122 on: June 26, 2014, 04:20:47 PM »
"Question: what is the most common use of 32Khz?  :twisted: Got it???"

Crystals for chronometers !

Thomas
So, if I've got 32kHz,  and multiple, signals.... ?
 


Offline Silversword

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #123 on: June 27, 2014, 02:17:39 AM »
Hi All,

Got some crazy looking frequency graphs tonight.  Don't know how to interrupt this.

This weekend I will take my system down and check out the amplifier board and see if there is a soldering issue.  Also will try to shield the ferrite antenna. Up until now it has been unshielded.  Also will relocate the controller board to a slightly different location, just a couple of feet away from my weather computer that is running 24/7.  Up until now it is just about a foot away from this computer. When I move it it will be about 4 feet away from this computer and hope it will make some difference.

Currently the amplifier and antenna is about 25 feet away from the amplifier board.  Cannot get it any further away than this for now.

Any suggestions or ideas that I could improve my interference issue will be very much welcome.

Regards,

--Stan Y.
   Maui, Hawaii


 
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Offline JonathanW

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Re: Interference and Noise
« Reply #124 on: June 27, 2014, 07:36:02 AM »
"Question: what is the most common use of 32Khz?  :twisted: Got it???"

Crystals for chronometers !

Thomas
So, if I've got 32kHz,  and multiple, signals.... ?

...you live in a clock factory? ;)

 

anything