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Weather Station Hardware => Blitzortung => Topic started by: fotogw on January 21, 2015, 02:57:19 PM

Title: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: fotogw on January 21, 2015, 02:57:19 PM
21 Januar 2015
Announcement of System BLUE

In recent weeks, we get more and more requests for our forthcoming lightning detection hardware, called System BLUE. We are working very intensive on the development of this system, but can still not say any fixed date when it will be available. Maybe we can offer these systems in spring or summer 2015.

The main differences between System BLUE and System RED are the following: The System BLUE main board will be offered already assembled, gets some additional digital componets, and some changes in the analog part. Due to the automatic assembling process we mainly use SMD parts. The main board is designed such that it fits into a housing that we also want to offer. In best case, you will get a completely assembled main device.

Note that we do not further offer controller or amplifier boards of System RED. We only still have a few kits as reserve for the case that some well-functioning stations fail or for strategically very important locations (North Pole, South Pole, Mount Everest, ...smile). Please do not request these kits but leave your e-mail address with your location on the Cover your Area page.

All participants that currently are running a system RED do not need to update their system. The signal quality of System RED is exellent and currently the best we have. Up to now, we have no experiences with System BLUE, but hope that the signal quality will be at least as good as for System RED.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: miraculon on January 21, 2015, 03:41:01 PM
Thanks for posting this. It is showing on the "What's New" page on Blitzortung.
I hope that with the STM controller integrated on a single board, the noise performance will improve.
The references are for "main board", so does this mean that the existing RED E-Field and H-Field amps will continue as kits and will be compatible with the new BLUE board?
I might upgrade the old "Green" system to one of these when they come out, keeping only the antennas and amplifier box basically.

Is that picture a teaser of the actual board? Or some generic SMT board?

(http://www.blitzortung.org/Images/blue_a.jpg)

Greg H.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: fotogw on January 21, 2015, 03:44:05 PM
Hi,

I'm curious too about the details... Guess we'll have to be patient...

Gerhard
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: Cutty Sark Sailor on January 21, 2015, 05:17:16 PM
Hi,

I'm curious too about the details... Guess we'll have to be patient...

Gerhard
Yes... but the developers will be gradually releasing more information as the development moves along.  Stay tuned.

Thanks for posting this. It is showing on the "What's New" page on Blitzortung.
I hope that with the STM controller integrated on a single board, the noise performance will improve.
The references are for "main board", so does this mean that the existing RED E-Field and H-Field amps will continue as kits and will be compatible with the new BLUE board?
I might upgrade the old "Green" system to one of these when they come out, keeping only the antennas and amplifier box basically.

Is that picture a teaser of the actual board? Or some generic SMT board?

Greg H.

RED is the 'standard"... and the SMT has proven it's versatility...  but there will be no more Red production.  "Blue" takes the best of the RED H and the E field basic design, and what was learned from the pioneer "Greens",  upgrades and enhances it, and will put it all together in an fantastic package, as envisioned currently. The Red data, particularly with E field capability provides about the same info that Blue will... generally---much of which has not been utilized so far.  Local 'customized' filtering may be enhanced for Blue. There are a few 'surprise' innovations, and features planned....many  :roll: of which we've all suggested or discussed here in this forum or in PMs.  There are a couple of differences expected, in H and E field detection and hardware... one or two may be a major "Huh? But I thought..."  :twisted:   Hint:  Go read up on lightning characteristics and field propagation and polarization.  8-)
Construction is likely to be almost exclusively tiny SMD components... ±  ....

Yeah, Greg, If I were a Green operator I would seriously consider upgrading to Blue in 2015...  :roll: however wait for more information! \:D/

The developers plan to release more info as the project develops, and testing is completed. 

That's the 'releasable' info for now... , perhaps, if no snag develops, early summer, maybe late spring? Many variables. Egon, Richo, Tobi and the crew are hard at it...
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: DaleReid on January 21, 2015, 10:50:52 PM
Yeah, but it's fun to speculate and very encouraging to hear from the development team.

I'm sure no self respecting RED or GREEN owner will want to be without the latest.  Or at least those who are severely bitten with the bug and like hams, want to have one of each to play with and gain experience.

I'm wondering if it will be easier to set up a BLUE station?  I've got a friend who's willing to host a station in Jackson, WY, which sorely needs some presence, but isn't willing to fiddle with the RED system as much as I am, and I don't do nearly as much as many other of the folks here do.

So while I'm sure it will never be turn key, maybe BLUE will be a wee bit easier to get on the air where there are interested folks but again some who lack the skills to build or perseverance to find the sweetest spot for their units, or have close neighbors who weld and plasma cut all the time.

In any event, it is an exciting time.  I'm hoping that the system not only works as well or better, but the software doing all the work is spiffy, too.  So far, what we've been given has been more than I could ever have hoped for. 

Let's hope there are no snags; Tstorm season is soon upon the USA.

Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: Cutty Sark Sailor on January 21, 2015, 11:09:39 PM
Those who will not read 'histories' and 'theories' on both the forums and in general, to find out what this is all about will dwell in mediocrity and poor performance, regardless of how the system is packaged.  It's that simple. Those who are not willing to do personal research, and allow us to help will live in their own special 'purgatory' and pollute the system, until BO cuts them off.
2015 will be the year of 'quality signals' and performance. Fall-Winter 2015-2016 for sure may cause a stir among some who are not paying attention, and expect this to operate as "plug'n'play'.
I'd recommend, starting right now, anyone who asks a 'previously discussed issue' be referred to the appropriate thread that discusses it.  We're gonna have a bunch of 'plug'n'players' by this time next year...some of which haven't the foggiest idea of what it's about... and they will come from the 'instant gratification' generation... you want to fool with 'em????   Be my guest,....      (remember this post... I said it here first).
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: W3DRM on January 22, 2015, 01:20:52 AM
And, to add to the comments, I suspect that another reason for migrating to plug-n-play designs is simply due to the fact that with home-built kits, like the GREEN and RED systems were, it led to major differences in how each of those home-built kits were assembled. We've all seen the photos of some very questionable soldering skills and component placement on the pcb's. All of that has most likely resulted in marginal operation, at best and also skewed data being sent back to the servers. On the other hand, we have seen some outstanding skills exhibited by the majority of the builders.

Over the past few years, the Blitzortung team has put together some pretty amazing lightning detection circuitry and hardware designs. They have learned a lot, as have we. However, if the Blitzortung network is going to be a consistent provider of quality lightning data then, now is the time to begin developing systems that are not dependent solely on the skills of the home-style hobbyist and builder. They must move forward with the knowledge gained from the first two system designs (GREEN & RED) and develop a system that truly provides what all of us want out of such a system - a lighting detection network second to none. It is my opinion that while I love to build kits and fiddle with electronics, I am also willing to accept the needs of the developers to move into new territory even if that means that I won't be able to build it myself. I'll still be able to say I had the privilege to be part of a lightning detection system and network that has provided accurate strike information. The learning process for all of us never ends and this is just one step, of many down this long road.

I look forward to the future enhancements we will be treated to with the Blitzortung network.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: Dr Obbins on January 22, 2015, 04:06:20 AM
Well... I am going to have to disagree and try not to take too much offense with some of the statements here about plug'n'play being the downfall of the BO network. #-o As many of you may know I had a RED system built for me and I thought it was easy as anything else to get up and running well. Just because we can not solder doesn't mean we are a bunch of bumbling incompetent idiots. ;)

Like the pioneers who mapped and established the infrastructure of the old west, the founders and early users of the GREEN & RED systems laid the foundation for the BO network. But we all can't be explorers, and for the network to grow it needed to become more user friendly. Look at how popular the Boltek system is. The designers seem to be working to make the software require less attention which will help "idiot proofing". If the BLUE system is plug'n'play and readily available, it wouldn't surprise me to see the North America network double in 2015. This influx of new systems is much needed and will definitely help the accuracy and quantity of recorded strikes. :grin:
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: Cutty Sark Sailor on January 22, 2015, 07:11:41 AM
Well... I am going to have to disagree and try not to take too much offense with some of the statements here about plug'n'play being the downfall of the BO network. #-o As many of you may know I had a RED system built for me and I thought it was easy as anything else to get up and running well. Just because we can not solder doesn't mean we are a bunch of bumbling incompetent idiots. ;)

Oh, but Dave.... you never were a 'plug'n'player'.... you researched, read, asked, before you joined,. You knew what you were getting into. You reached out, you troubleshot pet fences and light dimmers. You risked death and dismemberment replacing dimmers with switches while the wife was out shopping.  And today you give back...  Sorry.... there's a big difference between a DrObbins and "IWANTitNOw -why won't it work???  What you mean, read and research?"
And because of that you've got one of the most consistent "plug'n'play' Reds on the continent!.... so what... you can't solder.  Big Deal.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: miraculon on January 22, 2015, 08:34:04 AM
Quote
Construction is likely to be almost exclusively tiny SMD components... ±  ....

I think that this is a very good thing. Even though I know the resistor color code, either my eyeballs are going bad or the colors are getting harder to distinguish. I measured each and every resistor (or labeled a paper strip when there were a bunch of them) to avoid mistakes. Wrong resistor values are tough to sort out. I have helped a few that had mistakes in this area.

As long as someone doesn't place the wrong reel on the SMT placement machine (it does happen), funny operation due to wrong resistor values should become a thing of the past.

I for one would like to see the SOIC8 PGAs pre-placed as well on the amplifier boards. This has been another troublesome build issue for many.

Greg H.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: Dr Obbins on January 22, 2015, 10:52:47 AM
Well... I am going to have to disagree and try not to take too much offense with some of the statements here about plug'n'play being the downfall of the BO network. #-o As many of you may know I had a RED system built for me and I thought it was easy as anything else to get up and running well. Just because we can not solder doesn't mean we are a bunch of bumbling incompetent idiots. ;)

Oh, but Dave.... you never were a 'plug'n'player'.... you researched, read, asked, before you joined,. You knew what you were getting into. You reached out, you troubleshot pet fences and light dimmers. You risked death and dismemberment replacing dimmers with switches while the wife was out shopping.  And today you give back...  Sorry.... there's a big difference between a DrObbins and "IWANTitNOw -why won't it work???  What you mean, read and research?"
And because of that you've got one of the most consistent "plug'n'play' Reds on the continent!.... so what... you can't solder.  Big Deal.
I hear what you are saying and agree that the system in the current configuration is not ready for the mass population. But there are many others like me who can get a plug-n-play system contributing to the BO network. While similar to BO but not exactly the same, the Flight Radar 24 is plug-n-play. They asked screening questions ahead of time then, I received  black box and antenna. Plugged the antenna, power, GPS, & network in and away it went. I didn't need to know a thing about frequencies, squawk number etc. and I was happily watching the little yellow planes crawl across my monitor.  :-)

 I don't know if the new BLUE system is at this level yet, but I can definitely see the system evolving into something similar. Possibly just an e-field antenna attached to a black (blue?) box with a gain knob on it. Too much interference, a red LED is showing. Then just turn the knob down till it turns green. Or possibly the software will turn the gain down automatically as it currently does in interference mode.

The Boltek systems require you to mount a antenna, optional GPS and insert a card in the computer and it starts detecting strikes. - That easy to set up. The issue with their system is trying to calculate the distance with only one antenna. I have often wondered if the Boltek guys would add TOA to their software, if the two networks could be integrated. My guess is the BO guys wouldn't go for it though - having too much fun on their own.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: txweather.org on January 22, 2015, 11:20:27 AM
Well... I am going to have to disagree and try not to take too much offense with some of the statements here about plug'n'play being the downfall of the BO network. #-o As many of you may know I had a RED system built for me and I thought it was easy as anything else to get up and running well. Just because we can not solder doesn't mean we are a bunch of bumbling incompetent idiots. ;)

Oh, but Dave.... you never were a 'plug'n'player'.... you researched, read, asked, before you joined,. You knew what you were getting into. You reached out, you troubleshot pet fences and light dimmers. You risked death and dismemberment replacing dimmers with switches while the wife was out shopping.  And today you give back...  Sorry.... there's a big difference between a DrObbins and "IWANTitNOw -why won't it work???  What you mean, read and research?"
And because of that you've got one of the most consistent "plug'n'play' Reds on the continent!.... so what... you can't solder.  Big Deal.
I hear what you are saying and agree that the system in the current configuration is not ready for the mass population. But there are many others like me who can get a plug-n-play system contributing to the BO network. While similar to BO but not exactly the same, the Flight Radar 24 is plug-n-play. They asked screening questions ahead of time then, I received  black box and antenna. Plugged the antenna, power, GPS, & network in and away it went. I didn't need to know a thing about frequencies, squawk number etc. and I was happily watching the little yellow planes crawl across my monitor.  :-)

 I don't know if the new BLUE system is at this level yet, but I can definitely see the system evolving into something similar. Possibly just an e-field antenna attached to a black (blue?) box with a gain knob on it. Too much interference, a red LED is showing. Then just turn the knob down till it turns green. Or possibly the software will turn the gain down automatically as it currently does in interference mode.

The Boltek systems require you to mount a antenna, optional GPS and insert a card in the computer and it starts detecting strikes. - That easy to set up. The issue with their system is trying to calculate the distance with only one antenna. I have often wondered if the Boltek guys would add TOA to their software, if the two networks could be integrated. My guess is the BO guys wouldn't go for it though - having too much fun on their own.

Well said!!!!
This is the battle I am facing. I dont know much about frequencies and what not... I am still learning but getting there.... I so wish this was easier.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: Cutty Sark Sailor on January 22, 2015, 11:49:43 AM
You'll find blue to be about as close to Plug'n'Play as an operator involved system is likely to get.  It will not be "user" plug'n'play. However, it probably will send "something" at times with power applied, and some lights will flash. If that's all somebody wants, go Boltek or some other system.
I'm through.

Mike
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: gwwilk on January 22, 2015, 01:41:13 PM
...
If that's all somebody wants, go Boltek or some other system.
,,,
Mike
I, for one, would recommend against a Boltek system if you don't want to invest more than you would dollar-wise and time-wise in a Blitzortung detector.  The Boltek is a stand alone detector, is very costly, comes without adequate software which is going to set you back some more money, and requires MUCH operator intervention over time during in-range thunderstorm activity in order to try to tune it to your environment.  Even then, it might suck big time just like mine does (did).

I'm on my second Boltek PCI card and my third antenna failed a few months ago.  I haven't felt like entering my attic crawl space with a stepladder to install my spare antenna (yes, I do have one), so I just removed all traces of the Boltek from my web site in favor of the much more reliable Blitzortung network.    I was willing to tend to the Boltek's needs so long as nothing else was available.

I DON'T want to babysit ANY lightning detector, and the Blitzortung Red 'Automatic Mode' works well enough for me right now.  There are problems with my BO Red, most likely due to my shoddy assembly, and I would replace it in a heartbeat with a mostly pre-built BO Blue.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: Dr Obbins on January 22, 2015, 02:34:18 PM
I think there are basically 3 major components to optimize a BO system.
1. Correct building of the unit
2. Correct placement of the antenna
3. Correct settings.
While building of the systems must be very rewarding to those who can do it, receiving a built system still requires that steps #2 & #3 are done correctly. There are many who can not solder who can handle #2 & #3. The vast majority of drivers are clueless as to how a internal combustion engine and transmission work, and yet they can operate the car anyway (mostly :???:). Looking at the posts on the BO forums there is a large portion relating to the build and troubleshooting of the assembly, what ever can be done to minimize errors in any of the steps will benefit the system as a whole. And the increase of correctly set up systems is what improves the accuracy of the end result. Yes the end result is dots on a map - hopefully in the correct spot. I had a Boltek for over a year and never got it dialed in correctly. Or we can just subscribe to a service to get data on the website. But this is a hobby and we all have fun with the different aspects to the best of our abilities. I hope on this forum we can celibate each others differences in our strengths & talents and not stifle them. 
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: JonathanW on January 22, 2015, 11:25:03 PM
Thanks for posting this. It is showing on the "What's New" page on Blitzortung.
I hope that with the STM controller integrated on a single board, the noise performance will improve.
The references are for "main board", so does this mean that the existing RED E-Field and H-Field amps will continue as kits and will be compatible with the new BLUE board?
I might upgrade the old "Green" system to one of these when they come out, keeping only the antennas and amplifier box basically.

Is that picture a teaser of the actual board? Or some generic SMT board?

(http://www.blitzortung.org/Images/blue_a.jpg)

Greg H.

I could solder that.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: DaleReid on January 23, 2015, 08:30:37 AM
Yes, you could solder that, but then we'd have to visit you in the looney bin for a few years until you recovered.

For those of us old enough to remember the old Mercury car ads where they split a diamond in the back seat, or in an old Saturday Night Live skit a moyel did a circumcision while the driver ran over rough roads, I'm thinking the car companies are missing out by not having someone in the back of a car doing a hand solder of a board while the driver careens around most of our roads with potholes, especially during the spring thaw.

Someone here has alluded to their ability to do a hot air solder.  Is that a technology that is going to be more widespread, or only in big production facilities?



Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: JonathanW on January 23, 2015, 09:07:40 AM
Yes, you could solder that, but then we'd have to visit you in the looney bin for a few years until you recovered.

Yeah, that's the downside :)

Quote
For those of us old enough to remember the old Mercury car ads where they split a diamond in the back seat, or in an old Saturday Night Live skit a moyel did a circumcision while the driver ran over rough roads, I'm thinking the car companies are missing out by not having someone in the back of a car doing a hand solder of a board while the driver careens around most of our roads with potholes, especially during the spring thaw.

Someone here has alluded to their ability to do a hot air solder.  Is that a technology that is going to be more widespread, or only in big production facilities?

Hot air rework equipment is widely available right now, though I've never tried to use it for outright soldering.

Some PCB enthusiasts have used modified convection ovens for reflow soldering, which (if part placement and prep work is done right) can handle a lot of surface mount stuff.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: ke9lz on January 23, 2015, 10:42:12 AM
(http://weather.athelstanewi.com/solder.jpg)

When you have the right equipment you can do anything!
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: DaleReid on January 23, 2015, 10:44:49 AM
Holy cow, Steve!

I'm just a few hours away.  If I run into SMT problems, I'll know who to bug  ;)
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: ke9lz on January 23, 2015, 10:56:35 AM
Not a problem.  I am hoping that the blue system has some building to it because I get a kick out of the challenge.  I plan on getting a system together for here in town when they do become available.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: W3DRM on January 25, 2015, 06:21:10 PM
...
If that's all somebody wants, go Boltek or some other system.
,,,
Mike
...snip...

I DON'T want to babysit ANY lightning detector, and the Blitzortung Red 'Automatic Mode' works well enough for me right now.  There are problems with my BO Red, most likely due to my shoddy assembly, and I would replace it in a heartbeat with a mostly pre-built BO Blue.

Just putting a RED station on 'automatic' and letting it run is really just saying you want a plug-n-play result. That is exactly why we have been saying for a very long time that the RED systems have never been optimized for 'automatic' mode even though it is available. The results of this so-called 'automatic' mode is a station that, while it does run somewhat, is far from being an "optimum contributor" to the Blitzortung Network. Most folks who run in 'automatic' mode will find that their systems broadcast a large number of 'false' signals that the servers have to discard. This is why Cutty, myself and other BO users, very strongly suggest that everyone who has taken the time to build a RED system or have had it built for them, to spend some time reading the official Blitzortung documentation as well as the many articles that have been developed to assist all of us to learn more about the technical side of lightning detection and to learn how to make those manual adjustments. If you take the time to understand and setup a RED station from the get-go, you won't have to "babysit" it. And, as Cutty has implied in his posts on the new BLUE system, it is not designed (initially anyway) to be a fully Plug-N-Play system. While perhaps we won't have to build it as we did the RED system, we will still have to set it up and monitor its operation just as we do today with the RED system.

The Blitzortung Network is designed to be a collaborative effort of many stations around the world. It is the collective input from everyone that really makes this entire network what it is. The more stations we have, the better results all of us will get because we will be able to set our stations to detect strikes in our geography and then let others detect strikes in their geography. I would estimate that just about everyone has their gains set too high and thus, are missing the strikes closer to them. Chasing strikes that are 2500 - 3000 miles away is just a waste of your station capabilities. This is not a contest to see who can detect the most distant lightning strike.

I hope this isn't too strong a statement but we need to speak openly and honestly about what these BO station can do and can't do and how we can be better individual Blitzortung Network citizens.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: DaleReid on January 25, 2015, 07:27:27 PM
When there were a handful of pioneers peering distantly into the ether to hear the whistles you needed to ramp the gain up to hear those distant storms and then back off as you got a storm close to home.  There just wasn't the coverage otherwise.  So the mind set and the expectation was to hear every strike on North America.

With the improving coverage, I think we all can be happy to say that we are looking out 100-1000 miles, knowing that another lightning buddy is just over the river to get info that my station didn't get.

I like to be near the top of the list of % participation (I'm jealous of Jim with his great system and quiet environment and good substrate in the earth where he lives) but I'm also just as happy to have a better quality signal and catch the close ones.

On the other hand with some of the only activity lately being down in the Gulf, to know that my station heard but maybe wasn't one of the 12 anointed stations used to calculate the strike, is still fun.

Whatever the new system is going to deliver, it will still be fun and I'm sure those of us with functioning REDs will be eager to think about changing over to a BLUE if the price isn't too much of a bite.

I'm more anxious to see what magic the new software and servers will deliver and what display options will be out.  I worry that Google's maps having impaired functionality may be a bigger hurdle.



Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: schwab on January 25, 2015, 10:08:50 PM
Will GREEN Stations remain compatible with the upcoming system improvements and the newly engineered BLUE design planned for mid-2015?

GREEN Stations are common in Europe.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: miraculon on January 26, 2015, 08:32:42 AM
...
If that's all somebody wants, go Boltek or some other system.
,,,
Mike
...snip...

I DON'T want to babysit ANY lightning detector, and the Blitzortung Red 'Automatic Mode' works well enough for me right now.  There are problems with my BO Red, most likely due to my shoddy assembly, and I would replace it in a heartbeat with a mostly pre-built BO Blue.

Just putting a RED station on 'automatic' and letting it run is really just saying you want a plug-n-play result. That is exactly why we have been saying for a very long time that the RED systems have never been optimized for 'automatic' mode even though it is available. The results of this so-called 'automatic' mode is a station that, while it does run somewhat, is far from being an "optimum contributor" to the Blitzortung Network. Most folks who run in 'automatic' mode will find that their systems broadcast a large number of 'false' signals that the servers have to discard. This is why Cutty, myself and other BO users, very strongly suggest that everyone who has taken the time to build a RED system or have had it built for them, to spend some time reading the official Blitzortung documentation as well as the many articles that have been developed to assist all of us to learn more about the technical side of lightning detection and to learn how to make those manual adjustments. If you take the time to understand and setup a RED station from the get-go, you won't have to "babysit" it. And, as Cutty has implied in his posts on the new BLUE system, it is not designed (initially anyway) to be a fully Plug-N-Play system. While perhaps we won't have to build it as we did the RED system, we will still have to set it up and monitor its operation just as we do today with the RED system.

The Blitzortung Network is designed to be a collaborative effort of many stations around the world. It is the collective input from everyone that really makes this entire network what it is. The more stations we have, the better results all of us will get because we will be able to set our stations to detect strikes in our geography and then let others detect strikes in their geography. I would estimate that just about everyone has their gains set too high and thus, are missing the strikes closer to them. Chasing strikes that are 2500 - 3000 miles away is just a waste of your station capabilities. This is not a contest to see who can detect the most distant lightning strike.

I hope this isn't too strong a statement but we need to speak openly and honestly about what these BO station can do and can't do and how we can be better individual Blitzortung Network citizens.

With the relatively quiet period the other day, I decided to take the system out of Server-based Automatic mode. I didn't really see much of a difference until I started tweaking the gains/thresholds a bit. The local auto/filters seem to predominate. I just reduced it again this morning, since I had what was clearly an outside noise interference.

My "signals" began declining when I made the first adjustment, but I hope that I can get my 'signals' count down. I am not sure if this is what gets past the local 'interference mode', noises that get through before it kicks in or what.

I was running in full auto in hopes that it would help debug the feature, but I agree that manual is best. In an ideal world, full auto would help with intense storms or intermittent noises.

Greg H.
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: DaleReid on January 26, 2015, 09:24:08 AM
Greg,
I can't lay hands on the message right now, but some time into the spring last year I think that Tobi wrote that the auto system was in test mode, and implied or outright said that they would work on it in the future.  To me that meant that if NO one was sending auto station data they'd have nothing to tweak or play with.  In addition he speculated that the original stations in a less densely represented area would need a wide range of gains to hear far signals in areas where no closer stations provided good data.  More than one comment here was that the farther the station is from the event, the more garbage and poorer quality signal is received.

Therefore as stations proliferate there will be less need for super high gain stations.  But I submit for discussion that there may still be a need for variability in gain even when stations are close together.

The one thing that was unclear to me, at least, was what the vision of the developers for the future of the system, of which we are participants.  Was it from Tobi's tangential discussion implied that they were going to have a new version of auto in place in the future?  It would have been reassuring to those of use using Auto to have heard a statement saying he needed a few or a couple handfuls of stations sending auto signals.  I think Mike has said that auto is not supported (at all?  In test only?) and manual was the only way to go.  Then why if there was no need for that feature, didn't it get switched off as an option?   

I'm not being critical of the developers, since without their vision and unbelievably hard work none of us out here would have this fun system (and relatively low cost) to participate in.  But when one gets two conflicting messages, in effect, it's hard to know what to do, and some of the good people here have chosen to run auto and some manual.

'Nuf said, but the BLUE announcement sort of lays this all to rest.  There will need to be a new algorithm and system of server code to handle the old and the new, and maybe the issue of auto will be laid to rest once and for all when the curtain rises on the new era of stations and BO in general.

Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: gwwilk on January 26, 2015, 10:10:02 AM
...
'Nuf said, but the BLUE announcement sort of lays this all to rest.  There will need to be a new algorithm and system of server code to handle the old and the new, and maybe the issue of auto will be laid to rest once and for all when the curtain rises on the new era of stations and BO in general.
+1
Title: Re: Blitzortung System blue announced
Post by: ke9lz on January 26, 2015, 10:46:44 AM
I have been through the auto stage myself and have settled into manual mode and have it working ok now but the way I see it is if the developers didn't want you to use it, it wouldn't be there as an option.  If it shouldn't be used then take it out and don't let it be an option.  This would settle the auto and manual argument.  Just my opinion.