Topic: WunderGround lawyers have been busy...

[weatheroz]

I seriously doubt that the data from a couple of dozen sites would even be missed.  I have no idea what their membership base is, but I'm sure the vast majority of contributors are backyard hobbyists and aren't even aware of forums like these.

Just bend over, here comes WU.

The backyard hobbiest is just like you and me, and if they don't frequent this forum, they do frequent other forums like the ones for their favoured weather software, which also includes people from this forum. In short the word will get around if WU decide to be restrictive with data from their site when we all provide it free for them.

Of course, we need to wait and see what response Ken gets from them first.

[DundeeWeather]

A $US10 free membership for providing valuable data free of charge to them? I think they get very good value out of all of us.

You get:

Weather with no banner ads
Animated Radar loops up to 40 fps (it's smaller without membership)

Not sure what else as this is off the top of my head.

[msdawg911]

A $US10 free membership for providing valuable data free of charge to them? I think they get very good value out of all of us.

You get:

Weather with no banner ads
Animated Radar loops up to 40 fps (it's smaller without membership)

Not sure what else as this is off the top of my head.

According to this website: http://wiki.wunderground.com/index.php/Membership :
"Members are entitled to one year of ad-free enhanced service with unlimited access to our animated loops, severe weather and daily email service and a favorite cities list. We continue to expand member benefits with new features."

[weatheroz]

A $US10 free membership for providing valuable data free of charge to them? I think they get very good value out of all of us.

You get:

Weather with no banner ads
Animated Radar loops up to 40 fps (it's smaller without membership)

Oh ok, I couldn't see any animated radar loops for us here in Australia, but maybe they are there now?

And the weather without banner ads? .... I think I'd sooner look at my own site for my local weather.

[DundeeWeather]

A $US10 free membership for providing valuable data free of charge to them? I think they get very good value out of all of us.

You get:

Weather with no banner ads
Animated Radar loops up to 40 fps (it's smaller without membership)

Not sure what else as this is off the top of my head.

According to this website: http://wiki.wunderground.com/index.php/Membership :
"Members are entitled to one year of ad-free enhanced service with unlimited access to our animated loops, severe weather and daily email service and a favorite cities list. We continue to expand member benefits with new features."

Thanks Jake - I was too lazy to go look  

[capeweather]

Well lets just hope everything turns out good and that we can still use the data on our sites. It would be a shame if we couldnt but there are always other alternatives to use. I've been wanting to give GRLevel 3 a try anyhow so this may just give me an excuse.  

[WeatherHost]

Despite whatever else you use, I would still say go for GR3.  It's much more local and real-time than anything I have seen on the web.  The ability to add placefiles showing roads and landmarks in your own neighborhood makes it very 'personalized'.

Last year, I was actually able to track a hook echo and notify our emergency personnell to move out of it's way, then direct them along it's path after it passed.  I've never seen a web based app that was that detailed.

Still need to try Storm Predator and a few of the other simiar programs now that I'm on a super high speed web connection.


But then again, my use of weather programs is more 'in-house' than most of you who are maintaining websites and publishing data frequently.

[saratogaWX]

I agree with you about GRLevel3 -- it is a great program and produces excellent radar maps, so I really don't need the Wunderground radar at all (but like what Tom had done with it and the PHP radar page, so I offer both)


I've sent a mail message to John Celenza at WU.. I'd worked with him beta-testing the WeatherLink rapid-fire module.

I'll keep you posted on the saga as it unfolds.

Best regards,
Ken

[up10ad N9RJH]

Very interesting.  Ken, thanks for checking on the real scoop.  I eagerly await yhour response from WU.

[saratogaWX]

Looks like WU is taking MLK-Day off, so I'll try phoning tomorrow.  I left a voice-mail on Shaun Tanner's inbox, and a mail message to John Celenza's accounts too.

Hit the snooze button for 24 hours  

Ken

[saratogaWX]

John is checking email and replied today

Hi Ken,

I'll get this sorted out for sure. My understanding is that it is OKAY for a
private personal web site (non-commercial) use of our weather maps when
credit is given with a link or a written message. We should add a section to
the Terms of Service for the special situation of using Wunderground content
for personal web sites (non-commercial).

Using Virtual Weather Station templates definitely is okay since we partnew
with Ambient Weather.

-John

The discussion has begun and looks hopeful!

Ken

[Clammer]

Ken,
        Please remember back to the beginning of WU!  Ed Edelstein ( Ambient) was one of the developers that helped them write the code!  This whole thing smacks of Ambient trying to muscle WD out of the picture.  As I recall Ed fought to keep WD away from WU.  As long as Ambient is in this picture, things look bad for us WD admirers!

Ed Bradley

Clammer

[ocala]

Personally I  don't think this is going to amount to anything.  They aren't  going to bite the hand that feeds them.  They get a lot of second hand exposure from our websites and losing that is not good business sense.
I really believe this geared toward other commercial weather sites who may take there data and repackage it.
To be completely honest all I use WU for is the PWS sites.

[NoQuitters]

Notice the name and profile of our newest user?

johncel

[johncel]

Hello,

My name is John Celenza and I am the Director of Weather Technology at Wunderground.

Please let me explain.

It is not Weather Underground's intention to disallow folks to use our graphics and data on their personal/non-commercial web sites.

Please feel free to use Wunderground images and data on personal sites, as long as you link those images to Wunderground or give direct credit. Something like "This image courtesy of Weather Underground" is appropriate.

We sincerely appreciate the contributions folks have made to our community. And, we are in no way an organization trying to take...take...take and not give. Our philosophy couldn't be farther from that.

Hopefully we can make the Terms of Service more clear soon.

Thank you!

-John

[saratogaWX]

Thanks John for your quick response and direct statement of WU's intentions.  I think we can all rest easier after seeing your positive response.  

Best regards,
Ken

[ocala]

Thats what happens when we try to decipher legal documents and we're not  lawyers.  

[capeweather]

Thats what happens when we try to decipher legal documents and we're not  lawyers.  

You're exactly right ocala. Sometimes it's hard to define some of the terminology they throw around. Glad it worked out in our favor and appreciate the efforts you put forth Ken in contacting WU.  

[saratogaWX]

You're welcome!  I really want to keep my website 'legal' and comply with the ToS of all the sources of data.  I never want the legal watchdogs to come snarling at my door.. thought others might feel the same way  

Best regards,
Ken

[WeatherHost]

This is what happens when lawyers try to justify their jobs and don't want anyone to know what they are doing.

[up10ad N9RJH]

I too appreciate the response from John at WU.  I still have some concerns since the legal language seems to perhaps say something different.  

It's kinds like having a loan contract that has a complicated legalese clause that looks like it says there is a prepayment penalty, and then you ask the loan officer and he says 'no, don't worry, there isn't any penalty for prepayment'.  What do you suppose happens if the contract actually says there IS a penalty?  

Bottom line is, when I have a question about a legal document, I want MY lawyer to give me an interpretation, not the other guy's lawyer, and certainly not the other guy's layman (no offense meant John).  I don't feel this issue is important enough to actually ask a lawyer, but I really would like to see clear language that personal weather stations (non-commercial) can use the data, with owner reference.

John, thanks for the quick feedback, I suspect you well on the way to making this a non-issue.

[Clammer]

I think every PWS Site has some commercial value!  Why else would we put "counters" on the site?  My weather site is tied to my business web address.  That makes my site " Commercial" ?  Lots of people ask for Donations to help them.  Isn't that a commercial endeavor?

Clammer

[anchorageweather]

I think every PWS Site has some commercial value!  Why else would we put "counters" on the site?  My weather site is tied to my business web address.  That makes my site " Commercial" ?  Lots of people ask for Donations to help them.  Isn't that a commercial endeavor?

Clammer

No, I don't think every PWS has commercial value.  Lots are just for fun.  Many people put counters on their site - just to see how many people they can get to come visit, thats all

A site that asks for donations or redirects to a business, IMHO, is commercial to SOME extent.  However, that does not preclude other sites from just being for fun and created just for a fun hobby.

I suspect the judge would ask herself, "would a reasonable person consider this site, or that site, "a commercial site" - and act accordingly.

I can honestly say I do not think any reasonable person would consider my site "commercial".  I have no ads; I do not ask for donations; I do not redirect anywhere; I do not charge any money; everything on the site is free and open - (its hard to make any money that way) My hope is to have a little fun, and perhaps help out a sole or two who might want to know if its raining, or how cold its going to get today.

Now Weatherbonk, etc. is another matter.  Unless they have received the OK, I see that as a problem for WU - and my guess is this is who they are preparing to do battle with.

John seems genuine to me, and I hope he proves me correct down the road!

[DundeeWeather]

No, I don't think every PWS has commercial value.  Lots are just for fun.  Many people put counters on their site - just to see how many people they can get to come visit, thats all

My thoughts exactly.  There's no commercial value or need on my site.  Though I put up the WeatherFinderUsa counter just to see how many unique visitors I get a day.

[W7DRM (old call was W3DRM)]

I think "commerical" means someone is using the WU product for direct profit such as a site that charges viewers to use it. That leaves all of us out of the equation...