Topic: Vantage Vue Console logger pinout

[af4ex]

@Bushman
> I think you are going to need some extra work to get it to interface. 

Are you talking about the WL/WiFi interface, or XBee? For XBee it should be as simple as installing the Linux drivers for the FTDI serial2USB chip.
 
>... I've been doing a bunch of Python work lately so I'm itching to try this
> on a PC. 

The author claims weewx is "unix only" and hasn't been ported to Windows yet. Might not be a trivial port.

"Unix only. I haven't tried porting to Microsoft Windows, but given the portability of Python it is likely to be a large, but not mammoth, project."

[johnd]

Interestingly (to me, any way...) is that I've been doing a bunch of Python work lately so I'm itching to try this on a PC.  Can't see what it would not work.

There is PyWeather of course. Don't know much about it but it claims compatibility with the VP2.

[Bushman]

@Bushman
> I think you are going to need some extra work to get it to interface. 

Are you talking about the WL/WiFi interface, or XBee? For XBee it should be as simple as installing the Linux drivers for the FTDI serial2USB chip.
 
>... I've been doing a bunch of Python work lately so I'm itching to try this
> on a PC. 

The author claims weewx is "unix only" and hasn't been ported to Windows yet. Might not be a trivial port.

"Unix only. I haven't tried porting to Microsoft Windows, but given the portability of Python it is likely to be a large, but not mammoth, project."

I meant other than the Xbee connection.  Don't know for sure...

And my Python  work was a port form from Linux to Windows.  Was not that bad.  I will have to check Pyweather though.

[johnd]

Probably not, but I think it's a universal solution, equivalent to a serial connection. How would you share that over WiFi?

Well I was just assuming using a standard serial/WiFi device server like:

http://www.audon.co.uk/enet132wa.html

(This is UK pricing - I dare say that there is substantially cheaper pricing available in the US for similar devices)

I don't really know how WeatherLink connects to applications using WiFi. Doesn't that lock you into WeatherLink? How do you get the serial connection on the remote-side computer?

Just run standard Redirector software that presents the serial data stream to the application on a virtual com port.

I have my console downstairs, but I can connect to it upstairs wirelessly as COM5 through the USB port. How does that work with your WL/WiFi combo? Would I still have serial access to the signals?

Yes - as above.

NB I'm not necessarily suggesting that this is a superior solution. It's likely a bit more costly, but potentially simpler and maybe more robust (no USB involved).

[af4ex]

@johnd
> NB I'm not necessarily suggesting that this is a superior solution. It's likely a bit more costly, but potentially simpler and
> maybe more robust ...

If I understand correctly I would need these these gadgets to make your solution work:

Wireless Weather Envoy $195
WeatherLink $180 (for logging)
Wifi-2-Serial $150 http://aaxeon.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.903/.f

  Substantially more than I paid for my Vantage Vue (which I think is expensive, but worth it), even after discounts! And I don't think it is very robust, since there are several, potentially expensive, points of failure in the setup, vs. replacing a $20 XBee chip in my design.  Actually, my experience has been that USB is very robust, once you get the right drivers installed.

Like I said, Davis really needs to fill that gap in their product line ("low-cost serial interface").

[Bushman]

That low cost interface with one of these inline would sure be nice...    http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10216 Frankly, the new Vantage Pro3 should have an SDHC slot in it.  But I won't hold my breath!

[johnd]

If I understand correctly I would need these these gadgets to make your solution work:

WeatherLink $180 (for logging)

Why do you think you would need the logger? Maybe I've misunderstood, but I thought that part of this approach was that you could take a serial feed direct from the Envoy socket? So the serial feed would be connected direct to a device server of one sort or another

[af4ex]

@johnd
> Why do you think you would need the logger?

Actually, I don't need it, but I understand others think it is essential.
Revised BOM:
Wireless Weather Envoy $195
WeatherLink $180 (OPTIONAL, for logging)
Wifi-2-Serial $150 http://aaxeon.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.903/.f

So we're still looking at > $300, still "pricey" IMHO.   

[d_l]

Actually, I don't need it, but I understand others think it is essential.
Revised BOM:
Wireless Weather Envoy $195
WeatherLink $180 (OPTIONAL, for logging)
Wifi-2-Serial $150 http://aaxeon.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.903/.f

So we're still looking at > $300, still "pricey" IMHO.   

Your experiments are interesting and certainly appreciated for their potential for new types of connections, but you are using strawman MSRP costs.

Best price BOM:
Wireless Weather Envoy $126
WeatherLink $109 (OPTIONAL, for logging)
Wifi-2-Serial $150 Delete the need for a wireless serial interface as the Envoy is intended to be placed near a computer and the ISS to Envoy wireless connection substitutes for the WiFi.

Total price of "only" $235.  Not cheap, but a reliable, weather logging solution with a Davis warranty.

[JACK10562]

Total price of "only" $235.  Not cheap, but a reliable, weather logging solution with a Davis warranty.

And none of the fun of possibly breaking things until they "work"!. 

[af4ex]

Actually, I don't need it, but I understand others think it is essential.
Revised BOM:
Wireless Weather Envoy $195
WeatherLink $180 (OPTIONAL, for logging)
Wifi-2-Serial $150 http://aaxeon.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.903/.f

So we're still looking at > $300, still "pricey" IMHO.  

Your experiments are interesting and certainly appreciated for their potential for new types of connections, but you are using strawman MSRP costs.

Best price BOM:
Wireless Weather Envoy $126
WeatherLink $109 (OPTIONAL, for logging)
Wifi-2-Serial $150 Delete the need for a wireless serial interface as the Envoy is intended to be placed near a computer and the ISS to Envoy wireless connection substitutes for the WiFi.

Total price of "only" $235.  Not cheap, but a reliable, weather logging solution with a Davis warranty.

Ok, thanks for setting me straight on that. I was just guessing at how to set it up.

Yes, a good choice for those who want reliability and support "out of the box"!
 

[dalecoy]

How do you get the serial connection on the remote-side computer?

Telnet works fine.  Or SSH if you need security.  And therefore, not limited to any particular software package.

[af4ex]

Good news, I found out why my 2nd XBee (with the chip-antenna) didn't work. I apparently entered "ATDB 4" instead of "ATBD 4" to set the baud to 19200. SparkFun sent me a nice little note with a pointer to some more detailed instructions on how to use and troubleshoot these things.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Changing-Xbee-Baud-Rates/#step1
(Also updated the instructions on page 2 with this link)

So now I have the "chip-antenna to chip-antenna" working!

Now, is it working "just barely"? or with plenty of headroom to spare? Don't know, so will do some range testing eventually to answer those questions (and to prove/disprove that the chip-antenna is inferior to the wire antenna etc).

So the reliability of the XBee's just went up 25%, 4 out of 4!

 

[SpartanWX]

Actually, I don't need it, but I understand others think it is essential.
Revised BOM:
Wireless Weather Envoy $195
WeatherLink $180 (OPTIONAL, for logging)
Wifi-2-Serial $150 http://aaxeon.com/s.nl/sc.7/category.903/.f

So we're still looking at > $300, still "pricey" IMHO.   

Your experiments are interesting and certainly appreciated for their potential for new types of connections, but you are using strawman MSRP costs.

Best price BOM:
Wireless Weather Envoy $126
WeatherLink $109 (OPTIONAL, for logging)
Wifi-2-Serial $150 Delete the need for a wireless serial interface as the Envoy is intended to be placed near a computer and the ISS to Envoy wireless connection substitutes for the WiFi.

Total price of "only" $235.  Not cheap, but a reliable, weather logging solution with a Davis warranty.

This Xbee concept has merit though.

I have a VP2 and a logger (serial) already.  I need to locate the VP2 console in a different area of my house from were the WXPC is.  I need a wireless means (economical) of communication between the VP2 console/logger and the WXPC.  The xbee appears to do this for approximately $80. 

Do you know of anything else that is competitive with this?

[johnd]

Do you know of anything else that is competitive with this?

As has been said above, I suspect not - if you are looking for the cheapest possible solution. But finding a WiFi bridge device with a serial port interfacce (ie a serial-to-WiFi device server in other words) might possibly give a more convenient solution (eg less clutter at the PC) assuming that you already have a WiFi network set up. But it's likely to be more costly.

[dalecoy]

I have a VP2 and a logger (serial) already.  I need to locate the VP2 console in a different area of my house from were the WXPC is.  I need a wireless means (economical) of communication between the VP2 console/logger and the WXPC. 

Do you know of anything else that is competitive with this?

Exactly why do you require wireless? 

For instance (1) - are there telephone connections in both locations, and do you have only one wired phone number?

For instance (2) - perhaps communication over house electrical wiring? 

[af4ex]

@johnd
>  But finding a WiFi bridge device with a serial port interface
> (ie a serial-to-WiFi device server in other words) might possibly
> give a more convenient solution (eg less clutter at the PC)

How could you have less clutter than this?


Just plug in a $20 XBee to this $25 dongle (from SparkFun) and your weather computer will have a self-powered wireless serial link to your remote Dave console, which will have a similar, self-powered* dongle (without WeatherLink, if you build the AF4EX "homebrew dongle"). No need for WiFi-to-serial box or Envoy (and their associated wall-wart supplies).

As for wireless schemes using "house wiring", they tend to be noisy and unreliable (and tend to generate RF interference which will greatly annoy your neighbors, if they're ham radio operators)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_line_communication
 

*if you use WeathLink, then you'll need an RS-232 dongle, which does need a wall-wart supply (the "SpartanWX" solution). Still fairly compact and very easy to implement.

[dalecoy]

Note that I'm not objecting to wireless, and certainly recognize the "less clutter" of the XBee/SparkFun combination.

And I understand the drawbacks of other solutions like power line stuff (and I'm W5VBQ and my wife is KB5EVP)

And I just offered two examples - not intended to be the complete set of alternatives. 

The question that was asked was: "Do you know of anything else that is competitive with this?"

My answer was intended to say "If you remove the restriction of a wireless requirement, yes there are competitive things under many circumstances."

A lot depends on the entire set of requirements, including the specific environment.  And, of course, sometimes it's "because it's cool" or "I like that".

[DeKay]

And, of course, sometimes it's "because it's cool"...

^^^ This.  For me anyway.  I figured out the interface, yet haven't logged a single second of data.

[af4ex]

@dalecoy
> The question that was asked was: "Do you know of anything else that is competitive with this?"

Dale has a good point. So let's build a little decision matrix to help us decide which method is "better". Of course, "better" is based on a particular set of usage criteria, e.g. cost vs reliability etc.

Here's a first stab at it [edit: with some updates]. Let me know if I left off any important usage parameter or information:

"Homebrew Serial Solutions" for VP2/VUE

AUTHOR/SOLUTION	Wireless?	Self-powered?	Reliable?	EasyToImplement?	Cost
(Davis)WL/Envoy	yes	no	yes	yes	~$235 ("school" solution)
DeKay*,USB2COM	no	yes	yes	no, need expertise	~$15 (connects to 20-pin socket)
AF4EX,XBee	yes	yes	yes[so far]	no, need expertise	<$100 (connects to 20-pin socket)
SpartanWX, RS-232	yes	partly	Probably	yes	~$80(needs WeatherLink/serial)
johnd, WiFi-to-Serial	yes	no	Probably	yes	~$100(needs WeatherLink/serial)
d_l,MAX233	no	yes	Yes	no, need expertise	~$20 (connects to 20-pin socket)

* H/T to DeKay for figuring out how to use the 20-pin console socket for us frugal Davis WX fans! http://madscientistlabs.blogspot.com/
Notes:
1. SpartanWX proposed using a SparkFun XBee RS-232 dongle with WeatherLink. No soldering and should work fine, but somebody needs to build it and prove that it works.
2. WiFi (proposed by johnd) cost is fuzzy, because I don't know if it needs WeatherLink, or not.
3. AF4EX cost is also a bit fuzzy, because you might have to buy PC board and header strips, wire, solder etc, if you don't have them laying around like I did. My actual cost was around $60 because (being a ham) I have lots of parts in my junk box.
4. d_l,MAX233. Needs some way to plug into Davis 20-pin connector, so not easy unless you have construction skills
5. Reliable='probably' means it hasn't been tried yet (AFAIK), but should work because it uses industry-standard components, or includes other solutions that have been shown to work.
6. [26Mar11]SLOweather has verified that d_I's idea works, using a A232DBH3V

So far, DeKay's original idea, using an FTDI chip, is the cheapest and is reliable[depending on your hardware skills]. But it's wired, not wireless. For most of you, if you already have WeatherLink, SpartanWX's idea seems unbeatable, followed closely by johnd's Wifi idea.

For those who don't need all the features of WeatherLink, then I think the DeKay wired or AF4EX XBee interfaces are optimal, provided you have the necessary constructing skills (until "somebody" comes up with a ready-made dongle).
 

[johnd]

2. WiFi (proposed by johnd) cost is fuzzy, because I don't know if it needs WeatherLink, or not.

As we've said before, if the idea is to take a serial data feed direct from the console pins then no you wouldn't need a WL logger. The device server to WiFi just needs a serial data input. And - assuming you already have a WiFi LAN set-up, NO extra cluuter at the PC at all - no ugly circuit board hanging off a USB port.

But it's (relative) simplicity over cost - as I've said before I'm sure that this isn't the cheapest conceivable solution.

[af4ex]

@johnd
> As we've said before, if the idea is to take a serial data feed direct
> from the console pins then no you wouldn't need a WL logger.

Ok, I think I'm getting it now. (You'll have to forgive my ignorance in this area. I'm a complete noob, weather-hardware-wise).

You are essentially taking the serial output of the Davis console and converting it to WiFi, where it will appear as a virtual COM port anywhere within WiFi range. Correct? ... and all you need (in addition to serial output) is a little serial2wifi box, having a cost on the order of $100 US. Right?

Ok, I agree that could be a good solution for a lot of users.

The only 'caveat' that I see is that you'll need some kind of serial output from your Davis console. So that would require:
1. A WeatherLink interface (which many of you already have), or
2. A DeKay-style, USB2COM interface. But that's not standard RS-232, so an additional "level-shifter" might be required, depending on the wifi box specs.

Did I get it right that time? (I've already amended my table).
 

[d_l]

Not to change the subject, but do you think a Max233 adapter work with the appropriate connectors attached to it as a serial output connection? More specifically the A232DBH3v version offered as a fully assembled unit with hood kit for $20 here: http://www.compsys1.com/workbench/On_top_of_the_Bench/Max233_Adapter/max233_adapter.html  I've previously used these as console interfaces for DSL modems.

[af4ex]

Not to change the subject, but do you think a Max233 adapter work with the appropriate connectors attached to it as a serial output connection? More specifically the A232DBH3v version offered as a fully assembled unit with hood kit for $20 here: http://www.compsys1.com/workbench/On_top_of_the_Bench/Max233_Adapter/max233_adapter.html  I've previously used these as console interfaces for DSL modems.

I've never used these, but I think they're the standard for "level-shifting" 3/5 volt logic to RS-232 (two-way). So, yes, add that to DeKay's FTDI design (3v logic) and then I believe you will have a real, wired "RS-232" interface for less than $50, comparable to WeatherLink, but without the fancy logger of course.

I'll add it to the table.
John/af4ex

[130dB]

Another and maybe the cheapest solution , if you do not care about the data logger and want serial out, is to mount and wire an RJ11 or RJ45 female chassis connector to the data logger access panel door. Wire the connector to a header and connect it to the pins. According the data logger manual the max distance is 48 feet of 4 conductor serial cable . Run your cable to a remote computing device with the proper male connectors at both ends. Attach a RJ11 or RJ45 to DB9 adapter (properly wired) and you should be good to go. If you do not have serial port use serial to USB adapter.

Of course, if I got this all wrong and there needs to be conversion of the raw data from the pins before interfacing with a serial port on a computing device, we may need to through in a conversion circuit with a MAX232 or similar IC.

Dave