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Weather Station Hardware => Oregon Scientific Hardware => Topic started by: sam2004gp on December 11, 2008, 06:27:45 AM

Title: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 11, 2008, 06:27:45 AM
I started this thread as a continuation of the Davis Instruments thread of http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=1468.0    Since I am more Oregon Scientific equipment specific.


.....I do not have my "test setup" in my rain collector yet, but I am doing some outside testing with.  But wouldn't you know we have a freak warm spell now.  It is 59 outside and I am waiting for it to get colder before I turn it on. 

Below is my "Test graph"  for now.  The "Special Sensor" is a temp sensor in the "test bucket/collector". Outside is my Official Outdoor Temp.

I am basically using a white plastic trash can roughly twice the size of the WMR-968 Collector, and a 12volt 20Watt Halogen Landscape Bulb, my "Heat Lamp".  I located the sensor on the upper inside of the "test bucket/collector.   Since the "test bucket/collector" is twice the size and the sensor is located on the further most wall of the "test bucket/collector", I should be able to tell if this "Heat Lamp" can create enough heat, to melt anything.  If the results look good, I will then move the sensor to the outside of the "test bucket/collector" to expose it to the elements and see how it does there. 

If results are promising again, I will then purchase on of those temp controlled switches from Lowes that keep water pipes from freezing as mentioned earlier.  I will then install it in my uninsulated storage building with a small scale landscape power supply that will have a wire ran out the eave to my sensor tray.


(http://www.mountcrawfordweather.org/VWS/vws749.jpg) (http://www.mountcrawfordweather.org/VWS/vws014.jpg)(http://www.mountcrawfordweather.org/VWS/vws007.jpg)   
^^^ the images are updated every 5 mins or so, if anyone wants to check in. 

At this time the "Heat Lamp" is ON. 9:00 PM

EDIT:At this time the "Heat Lamp" is OFF. 5:50 AM.   The temp appears by my graph to have held at least a 13 degree spread overnight, so now I just wait until the temp gets lower.  When I got up this morning it rained over night and there was a pretty good size puddle of water in the concave of the "test bucket/collector".  So it looks like it was able to hold these temps even with lots of water on it.  So again the tests are looking good. \:D/.  When I finally mount it in the actual rain collector, and since the actual collector is 1/2 half the size of my test setup.  It should be able to heat well without a "meltdown" of the collector.  If my local temps don't drop soon, I may fabricate something so that I can do the test in the deep freezer.  Assuming I can get the permission of the wife. ;)

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 11, 2008, 03:56:34 PM
At this time the "Heat Lamp" is ON.  Outside temp 38,  Special sensor temp 48 now.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 12, 2008, 10:53:35 AM
The "Heat Lamp" is still on, when I get home from work today, my test rig is being sent to the deep freezer for some more test.  I would like to see what heat I will get produced when the temp drops close to 0.  Even though I never get winter precip at that temp, it would be good to know what my "heat lamp" can do.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 12, 2008, 06:00:31 PM
The testing phase is complete, now working on the fabrication. \:D/
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on December 12, 2008, 06:56:01 PM
Can't wait to see your design. But what I would really like to do is modify my guage to read in 0.01" instead of 0.04". And that infor was unfoutunately on the old forum. If any one here happens to have that info would you please post it and I can make the topic sticky. (I think).

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: MoradaWx on December 12, 2008, 07:12:54 PM
anthony,try this

http://www.victoryseeds.com/weather/rainguage.html

rick
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: SLOweather on December 12, 2008, 10:02:29 PM
Just do the math, Anthony. To get 4x the resolution, you need 4x the collection area. Measure the diameter of yours, divide by 2 to get the radius, square that, and then multiply by pi (3.14).

That's the area you have now.

Multiply it by 4. That's the new collection area.

Divide by pi. Take the square root. Double it. That's the diameter of the new collector. Find a funnel that big or bigger at the top. Cut it down to fit, top and bottom. Glue it together.

If you want to, post the diameter. I'll do the math. :)

Chris

Can't wait to see your design. But what I would really like to do is modify my guage to read in 0.01" instead of 0.04". And that infor was unfoutunately on the old forum. If any one here happens to have that info would you please post it and I can make the topic sticky. (I think).


Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on December 13, 2008, 07:42:16 AM
rick, thats exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. How much of the tip did you end up cutting off? Just visualizing. I would think it would be almost all of it.

chris, when I get a funnel and get ready to install and do the gain in vws. I may give you a shout.

This is something I've wanted to do ever since I saw the post at Ambient. I've just never done it. Keep hoping for that new weather station.

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: MoradaWx on December 13, 2008, 11:46:28 AM
Anthony, I never did do anything with it, but I had saved the link for future use.  Then along came my Davis.

Rick
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 13, 2008, 04:52:28 PM
Hey guys and Anthony, just chiming in real quick, and then have lots to do before the end of the day.  I still have the latter up beside my rain gauge, doing post install testing. 

{....And I just got done editing the rain numbers in VWS, to remove the "false rain" from messing around the unit today acidentally triggering .75 inches.   :mad: :mad: :mad: ](*,) ](*,) :evil: :evil: :evil: #-o #-o #-o #-o   As you all know that is not a fun procedure, but I finally understand how to do it.  If you go to my site and look in the Daily Reports you will see the hole in the data.  Too bad I can't get it out of Wunderground.  I also wish there was a way to ignore or turn off the rain gauges readings with a flick of the switch while you tinker with it, without disassembling your outside hardware.}

While I was up there 10 mintues ago checking my heater temps, I measured the funnel for you anthony.  Our funnel has an Exact inside diameter of  3 7/8 inches or 3.875.  So doing the math mentioned about to get a resolution of 0.01 inches of rain, you need now need a collection funnel of 7.7489 inches or 7 3/4.

My math:
(Our diameter)3.875 divide by 2 = 1.9375
1.9375^2(squared)=3.7529375
3.7229375 x 3.14(pi)=11.78422375=current area

11.78422375 x (0.04{current resolution} divide by 0.01{desired resoltuion} which is 4)=47.1368
47.1368 divided by 3.14(pi) = 15.01175
Square root(15.01175) = 3.87449996
38744996 x 2 = 7.7499992

So you will need to find a funnel that basically measures 7 3/4 inches across. \:D/

Oh and thanks guys now my wife will be mad at me, wanting to go shopping with her and bring a ruler along to measure funnel diameters. :oops: :shock:


Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on December 13, 2008, 05:29:23 PM
Sam and all,
  Here are the photos I took today of my unit:

(http://espwxctr.com/images/IMG_4911a.JPG)
Thermostat unit to turn on and off the heater at pre-determined temperature.

(http://espwxctr.com/images/IMG_4913a.JPG)

(http://espwxctr.com/images/IMG_4914a.JPG)

(http://espwxctr.com/images/IMG_4915a.JPG)

(http://espwxctr.com/images/IMG_4916a.JPG)

(http://espwxctr.com/images/IMG_4918a.JPG)

(http://espwxctr.com/images/IMG_4919a.JPG)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 13, 2008, 06:00:52 PM
Nice job and pics, I will post mine up, once I get the camera downloaded.  I got company coming tomorrow, so I need to go clean the fish tank, and cycle some water.

Mine is not as fancy as the one done very well and neatly above but it works.

jwyman, how much did yours cost in total now?   Mine has been free (well sort of) so far. :-)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on December 13, 2008, 07:13:00 PM
The halogen was 8-10 dollars, thremostat/relay unit was $19 after shipping...  Cost of breadboard - $0. Other stuff (i.e. wire, 12volt supply, junction box  already in place).

Jim
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: WeatherBeacon on December 13, 2008, 09:12:14 PM
Here are the formulas for anyone who is interested. It's actually pretty straighforward and can be determined without using areas and without Pi.

Example:  Suppose your rain gauge has a resolution of 0.04 inches. Suppose the manufacturer's funnel measures 3.875 inches across the top (diameter). Suppose you want to modify the funnel to have a finer resolution of 0.01 inches. So

      d  =  3.875,    Coarse  =  0.04,    Fine  =  0.01,

and you need a new funnel whose inside diameter (across the top) is

      D  =  d * sqrt(Coarse / Fine)   =   3.875 * sqrt(0.04/0.01)  =  7.75 inches,

and you need to set a gain of

     Gain  =   Fine/Coarse  =  (0.01/0.04)  =  0.25

on your station.

Regards,

Kevin...
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on December 13, 2008, 09:58:00 PM
freakin' math majors  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks WB, nice!

Jim
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on December 14, 2008, 07:29:11 AM
Jim, Thanks for the photos. Nice design work. Whats envolved to change the lamp, unplug & replug?

As for the rest of you. Thanks for doing the math. Now all I have to do is find a funnel with an inside diameter of 7 3/4"

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 14, 2008, 08:17:11 AM
x2 on the Math Majors.  I copied that info above and stored it away in my "Archives of Knowledge".

Here is what I have for the install.  All of the parts and materials that I used, I already had laying around the house not being used.  So I put those items to good use.  So it cost me nothing, but it may cost others who attempt to do this project.  I would estimate $60, bulk of the cost being the Bulb (heating element) and 12 Volt Power supply.

1. Start off with a 12Volt (13.6 actual) power supply.  I already had one in my storage/male tinkering building for 12Volt Mobile applications.  It is important that your power supply have enough amperage to power your "heating element".  In my case I need something that could provide 1 Amp of current.

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7004.jpg)

2.  Choose a halogen bulb as your heating element.  Luckily during the summer the wife had me replace all of the landscape lights with a new design, so I had 8 extra light fixtures laying around.  I took one of the fixtures removed the bulb, and plug-in ceramic bulb base to achieve my heating element.  The bulb that i had on hand was rated at 10 watts, but it's cone reflector was to large to fit in the rain gauge.  So wearing eye protection I broke the glass reflector off from around it.

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN6994.jpg)

3.  I drilled a 3/16 inch hole in the bottom of Rain Collector Bucket,  to accomadate the power wire.  I fed the wire up from the power supply in my building, thru the side vent of the building, along my mast, into my Rain Collector tray, and up into the Rain Collector Bucket base. 

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7005.jpg)


4.  I then stripped, soldered, and heat shrink wrapped the wires to my ceramic bulb base.   At that that point since I was worried about excess heat melting the plastic of the gauge, I looped a wire tie around the wires and unto a surface mount wire-tie base with sticky tape on the other side.  The size of the surface mount wire-tie base was perfect to wedge it into some pre-existing slots in the Rain Collector, which should lower the chances of sticky tape from releasing.  It is important to keep the assembly from touching any of the internal plastic.  One of the benefits of haveing the ceramic base, is the fact that the bulb plugs in to it.  So if your bulb goes out, you can replace it easily without resoldering wires.  Or if your bulb wattage is to low or high, you can again change the bulb out.

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7001.jpg)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7003.jpg)

5.  I took the "bucket" of the rain collector and lined it with reflective tape (leftover from a heat duct repair) to reflect the bulbs heat around the inside.  I then took a Sharpie and colored the inside of the funnel black, to help it absorb some of the heat energy.

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7006.jpg)

6.  I reassembled the unit and waited for dusk (my best chance at cold temps not influenced by the sun's radiation).  I took a cheap "window thermometer" and taped it to a few various places on the gauge and performed some measurments.

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7014.jpg)

7.  With the cheap "window thermometer", I measured the temp on the side of the rain collector bucket to make sure I was not going to melt down.  The Top number was current temp outside, Bottom number was the temp measured on the rain collector bucket's side.  I let the temp settle for about 20 mins.  Hmm, a 25 degree difference that is good.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7013.jpg)

8.  Then I repositioned the "window thermometer" sensor to the top inside the funnel and let it settle for another 20 mins.  I took a reading , and Almost a 50 degree difference, Great!! \:D/

(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7015.jpg)
{Sorry about the pic, light was fading}
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7019.jpg)

9.  I did not choose to go with a thermostat at this point.  The "poor boy" version of one, that I saw at Lowes, a 110volt switching unit came on at 38F and shut off at 50F.  It's cost was $12.  This large temp swing would cause my heater to be on alot for the 2 months when we get cold here.  That would be a waste of energy.  Also we are lucky to only get snow about 5 or so times of a year, and only 3 or so of those are usually in a measurable amount.  Whenever the forecast calls for winter precip., I will just walk out to the building and turn it on, as I am there already to plug up the battery charger to the Lawn tractor equipped with a small snow blade to clear off our huge driveway.


Additional pics can be see at http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/

The glow from afar.....
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii256/sam2004gp/weather%20station/DSCN7017.jpg)




Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: SlowModem on December 14, 2008, 09:56:57 AM
Sam and all,
  Here are the photos I took today of my unit:

That is so cool!

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: SlowModem on December 14, 2008, 10:32:06 AM
Here is what I have for the install.

If somebody can't learn from that, they're in a casket!  Great pictures!   :grin:

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: WeatherBeacon on December 14, 2008, 12:02:42 PM
freakin' math majors  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks WB, nice!

Jim

He he he! Oh Jim, I'm not a math major any more. ;)

Kevin...
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on December 14, 2008, 04:45:10 PM
Anthony,
  The bulb is currently soldered onto the breadboard.. It didn't have a mounting fixture on the base, just 2 leads.
I am still looking around for a recepticle for it which will make it easier to replace bulbs.

Jim
Jim, Thanks for the photos. Nice design work. Whats envolved to change the lamp, unplug & replug?

As for the rest of you. Thanks for doing the math. Now all I have to do is find a funnel with an inside diameter of 7 3/4"


Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on December 15, 2008, 07:48:24 AM
Sam, Nice design also. Looks like I will be one of those on the hi cost end. Plus my station is probably 40'+ from the house. So the first step will be getting some power out there.

 
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: NiceBill on December 15, 2008, 11:42:11 AM


Hi Sam,

Looks like a great plan,  nice photos and if it all works for you, all the better.

Looking at your last photo, a comment or two, if you dont mind.
The shroud around the rain gauge will create very inaccurate rainfall readings, due to the updrafts it will create. Additionally, having your rain bucket next to the assembly mast will also cause very inaccurate readings.  Vertical items within 10' will have a great effect on your readings.

Bill.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 15, 2008, 08:25:35 PM
Bill, I had concerns at first as well as the accuracy of the gauge.  But that is my best mounting location, so sometimes you can only do what you can do.  I got the Rain Collector tray from ambient.  I could of put it down on the ground on a post.  But the collection funnel portion of the collector does stick up over the tray.  And perhaps I will in about 5 years or so, when things are little more settled.
{Start of rant}
But I have issues with over zealous Russian/Ukrainian  teenage hoodlums/kids and their ability to destroy things.  I have had pumpkins smashed at halloween, my wife has had two bird feeders destroyed, and someone attempted to break into the storage building.   Each time the police can't do anything unless we catch them in the act, but I have seen them running around outside at night in the summer. The parents seem to conveniently forget how to speak english when I have tried to peacefully confront them about this trespassing.  All of this has occured inside our fenced in back yard.  One of the reasons we got the fence.  I have three multi family homes(parents, kids, grand parents, cousins all in the same house) in my block, and the children are all related to each other.  The only peace I get is winter when it's too cold to run around outside.  But this summer I replaced all of our outside lights with motion activated ones, and added some new locations and this has seemed to slow things down a bit.
 
.....So I had to come up with a way to mount the rain gauge out of reach.  I have been able to verify my readings by placing the garden variety plastic rain gauges around a few times in the yard.  And yes, one of those disappeared.  If you notice in my pics, one of my neighbors also put up a privacy fence as well.  She has had a rock thru her sliding glass window door.

I also wish I could get my anemometer up higher, but then we have some restrictive covenants that we have to live be, and getting the fence approved and my anemotmeter at it's current height was an ordeal.  I had asked for twice the height I have now, but they only approved half of that.  But yet again, the "trash" of the neighborhood can do anything they want. ](*,)  And yes I am bitter. :evil:
If I could only catch one of those little B@5T@RD5, I would skin him alive. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
{End of rant}

On a lighter note, it has been very accurate, and seems to perform well for a gauge that only has a 0.04 accuracy, so I guess I will do the funnel mod next and try it out.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 15, 2008, 08:28:06 PM
Anthony,
  The bulb is currently soldered onto the breadboard.. It didn't have a mounting fixture on the base, just 2 leads.
I am still looking around for a recepticle for it which will make it easier to replace bulbs.

Jim
Jim, Thanks for the photos. Nice design work. Whats envolved to change the lamp, unplug & replug?

As for the rest of you. Thanks for doing the math. Now all I have to do is find a funnel with an inside diameter of 7 3/4"


Go to lowes and purchase the cheapest landscape light fixture that uses that bulb or close to it.  And then remove the socket and wire like I did. :idea:
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Mark / Ohio on December 16, 2008, 12:12:28 AM
...Go to lowes and purchase the cheapest landscape light fixture that uses that bulb or close to it. ...

Would one of those directional lamps pointed at the anemometer, maybe a foot away from it, produce enough radiant heat to keep it thawed out during an ice storm?

I've been thinking about trying it.   :-k
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 16, 2008, 06:15:07 AM
No, I doubt it.  Maybe, and just maybe, an actual heating lamp and bulb might do it, but then your talking 110 volt household current exposed to the elements and the freaking out the neighbors quotient with a large glowing red bulb.  But most of the time you can not feel the heat of a regular spotlight bulb unless you are a few inches from it.
...I also wonder if you took some of the water pipe heating cord and wrapped it around the horizontal mast and around the housing with out interfereing with the normal movement, if the temp would transfer over enough. I would think that would look unsightly as well.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on December 16, 2008, 07:56:19 AM
Sam,
 the problem with this is it's an auto lamp which produces alot of heat at very close range. You need something like ceramic or breadboard to handle it... Something like a plastic receptacle may melt.... Have to give it some thought. Thanks for the suggestion.

JIm
Anthony,
  The bulb is currently soldered onto the breadboard.. It didn't have a mounting fixture on the base, just 2 leads.
I am still looking around for a recepticle for it which will make it easier to replace bulbs.

Jim
Jim, Thanks for the photos. Nice design work. Whats envolved to change the lamp, unplug & replug?

As for the rest of you. Thanks for doing the math. Now all I have to do is find a funnel with an inside diameter of 7 3/4"


Go to lowes and purchase the cheapest landscape light fixture that uses that bulb or close to it.  And then remove the socket and wire like I did. :idea:

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on December 16, 2008, 08:13:15 AM
Sam, As for the hoodlums. It called a 20 guage with buckshot. Fille their butts full one time and they will stay away.

As for the freezing anemometer. I think if we/you could keep the arm warm it would keep the anemometer from freezing.

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 16, 2008, 10:25:57 AM
Sam,
 the problem with this is it's an auto lamp which produces alot of heat at very close range. You need something like ceramic or breadboard to handle it... Something like a plastic receptacle may melt.... Have to give it some thought. Thanks for the suggestion.

JIm
Anthony,
  The bulb is currently soldered onto the breadboard.. It didn't have a mounting fixture on the base, just 2 leads.
I am still looking around for a recepticle for it which will make it easier to replace bulbs.

Jim
Jim, Thanks for the photos. Nice design work. Whats envolved to change the lamp, unplug & replug?

As for the rest of you. Thanks for doing the math. Now all I have to do is find a funnel with an inside diameter of 7 3/4"


Go to lowes and purchase the cheapest landscape light fixture that uses that bulb or close to it.  And then remove the socket and wire like I did. :idea:


Okay no problem, but even some of the cheap plastic body landscape lights use a ceramic receptacle.  That was my un-spoken intention when I said, "Go to lowes and purchase the cheapest landscape light fixture that uses that bulb or close to it."

Your breadboard will work fine.  I would not worry about changing it until the bulb actually burns out, then you can install a new plug-n-play base and bulb to go with it.  In the meantime, I may go with a thermostat who knows.  Whatever suits, right.  :-)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 16, 2008, 10:29:35 AM
Sam, As for the hoodlums. It called a 20 guage with buckshot. Fille their butts full one time and they will stay away.

As for the freezing anemometer. I think if we/you could keep the arm warm it would keep the anemometer from freezing.


Anthony, I was not going to try the "anemometer heating mod".  I was just throwing out ideas for Mark.  I wonder how if I do the Rain Collector sensitivity/funnel mod, how it will effect my heated rain gauge now.

......by the way, a Winter Weather Advisory has been issued for my area tonight, so it looks like I get to test it soon.  Perfect timing on my install. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 16, 2008, 01:06:32 PM
I am "working" from home today.   I have brought my sensor inside to warm it up (brittle plastic).  I am going to try and whip this up in my spare time.   Never thought of using my low volt light system.  Its already wired back to the rain sensor.  Typically its only on dusk to 11pm, but I guess I could just force it on during precip events....

If it works, I will just pick up a liquidation light system so my mains lights are not on during the day, the cheap ones are only 30 bucks anyway...

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 16, 2008, 01:12:50 PM
I am "working" from home today.   I have brought my sensor inside to warm it up (brittle plastic).  I am going to try and whip this up in my spare time.   Never thought of using my low volt light system.  Its already wired back to the rain sensor.  Typically its only on dusk to 11pm, but I guess I could just force it on during precip events....

If it works, I will just pick up a liquidation light system so my mains lights are not on during the day, the cheap ones are only 30 bucks anyway...

Andrew


Yep. I saw the idea for the light bulb from someone else, but then I thought about the 12Volt landscape lights.  When we have snow, even if it is over 12 inches, the snow always melted a "ring" around the lights because they were in a metal enclosure that acted like a heatsink. And I thought if I could keep the temp down enough it should have no problem heating up the gauge.  Then when the wife wanted to go to a different design for the front sidewalk, I decided to hold onto them in case we wanted to add some in the backyard.  Now I am glad I did, and they did get added to the backyard just not as accent lighting.  ;)
This was the original light fixture before I stole it's innards.
(http://www.malibulights.com/images/products/CL635R.jpg)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 16, 2008, 03:46:11 PM
Did an 1 hour 45 minute melt test.  My light fixture has a ceramic base that exactly fit some extra screw holes in the sensor base.    could not even feel heat through the metal reflective tape.   If all goes well I will have it in place for 2"s of snow tonight, and 6-7"s on friday.

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 16, 2008, 06:08:55 PM
First Official Rain Collector Heater Activation, I just got back from powering mine up.  Let snow or freezing rain, or whatever it's supposed to be, come down. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ :grin:
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 16, 2008, 09:50:26 PM
I am live too.  my test temps got pretty hot, might have to back off on the wattage, if I see a plume of steam when I wake up, i will know...

I will post pix and notes tomorrow probably

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Bushman on December 16, 2008, 09:56:10 PM
Anyone ever look at the flexible heater strips from Minco?  They are 5-20 bucks.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 16, 2008, 11:14:51 PM
Its working, got a cm or so of snow, so far. 

Unfortunately I just noticed in my data, that although I unchecked the sensor while I was working on it, I forgot to close vws in the interim (I thought I did), anyway with moving it around and working on it downstairs managed to register 16mm of precip in accidental tips....  oh well, the precip after 9pm is real.   deleted the entries from WU, but it still shows 16mm in daily today. 

Cant figure out how to remove from vws in real time, I guess I will just edit the daily bin file tomorrow.  is that correct?

Andrew


I am live too.  my test temps got pretty hot, might have to back off on the wattage, if I see a plume of steam when I wake up, i will know...

I will post pix and notes tomorrow probably

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 17, 2008, 06:37:14 AM
Well our 5-6cm's of snow, turned into 9-cm's.   heater seems to have worked.  averaging 1-2mm's hourly rate during snow fall.  measured 2mm before midnight, and 4 so far today.

so looks like the NOAA snow chart was pretty accurate
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/conversion/newsnowfall.html (http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/conversion/newsnowfall.html)

6mm = .23inch
and the chart says....
2-3" at -2c
3-4" at -2.7c

And 9cm is 3.54inches, and it was minus 2 to minus 4c last night

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 17, 2008, 07:07:59 AM
Mackbig, you got lucky, Our forecasted freezing rain stayed just rain, and never got to freezing.  The lowest temp I got was 34 overnight.  I went out and cut it off before I went to work this morning. 
Good to hear yours is working. As far as the wattage, you may want something around 10 watts or so.  I tried a 20 watt bulb at first and got a sample of temps on the collector around 130.  When I went to 10 watts, it dropped back to around 80.  If you can not find a 10 watt bulb, take two of your 20 watt bulbs and connect them in series.  That will effectively and safely be adding a 50% dimmer to your orginial bulb.  I would advise you to take the time to check those temps with a cheap probe thermometer like I did above.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 17, 2008, 07:09:08 AM
Anyone ever look at the flexible heater strips from Minco?  They are 5-20 bucks.

Got a link??? :-)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on December 17, 2008, 07:34:14 AM
Sam, Doing the rain nod should not affect anything. All it amounts to is adding a great big funnel to the top of the guage and entering an offset in vws.

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 17, 2008, 07:39:57 AM
Its working, got a cm or so of snow, so far. 

Unfortunately I just noticed in my data, that although I unchecked the sensor while I was working on it, I forgot to close vws in the interim (I thought I did), anyway with moving it around and working on it downstairs managed to register 16mm of precip in accidental tips....  oh well, the precip after 9pm is real.   deleted the entries from WU, but it still shows 16mm in daily today. 

Cant figure out how to remove from vws in real time, I guess I will just edit the daily bin file tomorrow.  is that correct?

Andrew

After I installed my rain collector heater, and got/caused some erroneous rainfall values so I had to do the following. 

1. Get a notepad and right down what the correct values for your rainfall should be.
2. You need to remove the error value from the "Rainfall Menu" and return your month and your year values back what they should be.
3. Then you will most likely need to adjust the "correction" in the  "calibration menu" so that your total shown on the Broadcast.jpg is correct.  This helps to offset the number that is contained in the OS-WMR968.  Do not clear out the rain total in your OS-WMR968 or then you will really have a mess of problems.
4.Then You need to edit the following:
   (to edit these, use the menu item "Recall Daily, Monthly, and Yearly Archive"in VWS) 
   BIN file for the year
   BIN file for the month
   BIN file for the day(that it occurred)

   (to edit these files you can just use Notepad in windows)
   NOAA report file for the month
   NOAA report file for the year
   Daily Summary File

{there are usually a "sort of daily temp file" and then the official file, for the next listed files, so sometimes it's two files or more for each}
   Daily Archive file for the day(that it occurred)
   Monthly Archive file
   Yearly Archive file

5. Also you can edit the dbase files for VWS, but if you are like me my updates occur every 1 minute.  So basically you have a ton of entries back to the time the error occurred to clean out.  My dbase file is 250 megs and Microsoft excell crashes when I open a file that big.  So perhaps I will have to come up with something else to edit it.  But you do not have to edit the dbase file. 

If you do the other edits(2,3,4) I listed above it should remove all traces of it except on any graphs you have displayed in VWS.  <<<and that will disappear once your graph scrolls past the event error. 
If you can perform or choose to edit #5, then all traces will be gone. :grin:


See how much fun this can be.  :shock: :roll: :twisted:




Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: W Thomas on December 17, 2008, 07:42:31 AM
The halogen was 8-10 dollars, thremostat/relay unit was $19 after shipping...  Cost of breadboard - $0. Other stuff (i.e. wire, 12volt supply, junction box  already in place).

Jim


Nice job on the "freeze protection" Jim !

If I can keep mine running long enough I plan on making some sort of heat device.. This would be easiest as I have a fair stock of H3 halogen fog lamp bulbs that I could strip down and use..

Wayne

www.smythweather.net
CW8217
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 17, 2008, 07:44:34 AM
Sam, Doing the rain nod should not affect anything. All it amounts to is adding a great big funnel to the top of the guage and entering an offset in vws.


Yep, Anthony, I am already on the look out for just the "right size" funnel.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 17, 2008, 07:51:50 AM
halogen bulbs,  the mr11 I used is the same size as my range hood, bot some 20 watts at the depot when one went out a few weeks ago.  $14 each, I thought if these things only last a year, I am not shelling out $45 on bulbs per year.    remembered that Ikea has cheap lights.  2 for $4.39   so if you want a cheap bulb try that.  I dont care if they last half a long, it will take a long time to make the Philips worth while.

My total cost for my rain heater was half of 4.39 plus tax, the rest of the parts were on hand, technically the bulb was too, but I'll put my cost at $2.48.

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Bushman on December 17, 2008, 09:50:46 AM
Anyone ever look at the flexible heater strips from Minco?  They are 5-20 bucks.

Got a link??? :-)

http://www.electronicsurplus.com/ccp69954-tiny-24v-flexible-heater---200to150degc-hk21747-28a29-26182.htm  I think sticking it to a nice chunk of aluminum (heat sink/collector) should work great!
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on December 17, 2008, 11:21:15 AM
confused about the temperature range.. what is the operating temperature?
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 17, 2008, 11:51:36 AM
Jim,
One thing I noticed in your design. I copied your metalic "shield" between the light and the tipping bucket.  when I put it in, it interfered with the "axle" enough that it prevented tipping. Obviously yours did not ... I just poked a small hole in the makeshift shield that lined up with the axle....

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Bushman on December 17, 2008, 11:58:33 AM
confused about the temperature range.. what is the operating temperature?


Output (in watts) is entirely  dependant on the voltage applied.  The things are used in avionics so the wide range you see is  the actual operating range of the device.  It gets cold up there.  BTW, some of the heater strips have thermostats built right in!  I have to muck around a bit to see how many volts are needed to be equal to the Davis OEM unit.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Bushman on December 17, 2008, 01:17:51 PM
Here's what I am gettting at.... http://www.padheaters.com/fh50.html

(http://www.padheaters.com/resources/filter_heater_sm.gif)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 17, 2008, 04:12:14 PM
Bushman, again I am confused about what the temps it operates at.  Plus if you inverse this on the inside it may work well, but without being sure of heat output who knows.  It would also require a power supply twice the current load I have now.  But for others who are looking for ideas this seems to be a good one too.

EDIT: I found this in there FAQ, for what it's worth.
Quote
Q: How long does it take a Pad Heater to do it's Heating job?
A: Pad Heaters will generally raise cold oil temperatures by 38°C (100°F) in 1.5 - 2 hours.
Full Heating is usually accomplished in 5-6 hours.

That would be too hot if you ask me.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Bushman on December 17, 2008, 04:50:55 PM
OK - all the flexible heaters deliver a certain number of watts/sq. in.  It does not get much simpler than that.  The pad heater I linked/showed would raise the temp by 100 degrees IF you let it run continuously.  WHich a thermostat would not.  :)  The flexible heat things look to me to be a much better idea than a wire wound resistor from a 1950's Philco TV.  :)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 17, 2008, 08:47:32 PM
Day 2 temp check.  Outside temperature -1.5c (29.3f), temperature just inside funnel opening using probe thermo 22.7C (73F)
That seems pretty good.  Not too hot I would think.  Was worried it got up to 130F in my basement with a room temp of 70ish.

Andrew

ps: pix will have to wait, just spent an hour on data issues, wife will be expecting some "work" around the house now...
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 17, 2008, 09:31:46 PM
Ideas credit to Jim and Sam...

Well here it is.

Ceramic mount coutesy of a non functioning piece from some track lighting my previous owner left me. its actually for an mr16, but the mr11 fit perfectly.  The screw holes also line up perfectly with an existing unused mount inside gauge, and another piece of plastic lined up with other side.
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain1.jpg)

Heat shield, diet coke box cut into small rectangle, covered with metallic duct tape, hole in middle so the tipping axle/pivot was not slowed. Took this from Jim's pic, but my bucket would not tip freely without cutting the hole.
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain2.jpg)

The usual, wrapped inside with metalic duct tape to reflect the heat in and up.
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain3.jpg)

Temp check, I reduced the resolution on the pix, they were taken with a 10 megapixel camera, the meat thermo is at 130 F.  room temp 70F
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain3b.jpg)

Here is one of my personal mod's.  I put some more tape on the roof of the funnel directly above the lamp.  It was extremely hot to the touch.   I did not want to risk meltage, kind of like when you have a candle to close to the bottom of a cabinet.  plently of warmth still got through afterward.
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain4.jpg)

placed the wires through a hole drilled in bottom.  soldered wires, then capped.
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain5.jpg)

voila
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain6.jpg)
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain7.jpg)

And here it is in place.  Just tied into existing low volt system.  Not a great pic, did not have my tripod (shaky time exposure) and a bit overexposed.
(http://www.mackweather.com/pix/rain8.jpg)

Future enhancements will be its own 12volt line, so I dont need to keep my landscape lightly on during the day, and a thermostat.

Fun hour or so, here and there through the day yesterday.  Last nights dusting of 3" was just the start.  We are supposed to get back to back winter storms on Friday and Sunday.  So we'll see how the temps hold up with 60k winds, but it will only be -3 to -6....

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on December 18, 2008, 08:00:25 AM
Guys,
  We need to start a company for mods to OSI eqipment! We'd get rich!  \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

Seriously, this is such  great place to get ideas and trade them too!

Well done guys!

Jim
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 18, 2008, 08:53:01 AM
Looks great Mackbig.  =D&gt; =D&gt; :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 20, 2008, 12:31:27 PM
thanks Sam.

Here's the next question for all.  Now that my site has "melted snow equivalent"

What should I call my "Rain" section...?

Rainfall Totals
Hourly Rain    0.00 mm
Daily Rain:    0.00 mm
Yesterday's Rain:    11.00 mm
Day's since last Rain:    1
Monthly Rain:    47.00 mm
Yearly Rain:    851.00 mm

Yesteray's rain was actually 22cm's of snow...
Should rain be changed to precipitation?  Footnote that snow is melted as it falls, and reported in equivalent water in millimeters?

Thoughts???

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: racenet on December 20, 2008, 12:40:19 PM
Yep, Precipitation
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Mark / Ohio on December 20, 2008, 07:35:47 PM
Yep, Precipitation

Hmm, that reminds me I should have changed my labeling over too.   #-o
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: W Thomas on December 21, 2008, 01:43:58 AM
While on the OS rain collector subject...has anyone experienced a failure with one where when exposed to outside air temps it causes a no transmit condition?

That is what I have narrowed mine down to as the root failure. Evidently it is related to the MPU section of the sensor board that is potted.
I have re touched all the component joints twice or more and still have the same results. When in fail mode I can switch to another bucket ( which has same problem) and the transmitter will again operate...for awhile. I have swapped different transmitters and gotten the same results so I am confident the problem is related to the sensor board in the bucket.  I can keep the bucket inside where the temps are 70 ish and it never fails to transmit!  But we are in a weird warm spell where the ambient temp is in the 50's so it obviously doesn't take much of a drop to fail this thing!

I have been reading my manual collector and operating the tipping bucket as required to keep my rain data somewhat near correct.  Beats manual corrections to VWS :)

I was curious as to whether anyone else had experienced or heard of such a failure of the RGR968.

I have a replacement coming from Ambient but ups says it will be the 29th before it arrives...even with it being ordered earlier this week!

So much for the 3-5 business day thing huh?

I am seriously considering some sort of heater to keep the unit at what it determines is operational temperature but I haven't yet had the opportunity to measure it during this time..


Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: SlowModem on December 21, 2008, 06:06:55 AM
I think "Business Days" are counted a little differently during the week of Christmas.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 21, 2008, 08:10:51 AM
Yep, Precipitation

Hmm, that reminds me I should have changed my labeling over too.   #-o

I will have to do the same as well, when I get a chance.  It's Sunday and I have to spend the whole day at the inlaws.  :roll: ](*,)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on December 21, 2008, 08:18:16 AM
While on the OS rain collector subject...has anyone experienced a failure with one where when exposed to outside air temps it causes a no transmit condition?

That is what I have narrowed mine down to as the root failure. Evidently it is related to the MPU section of the sensor board that is potted.
I have re touched all the component joints twice or more and still have the same results. When in fail mode I can switch to another bucket ( which has same problem) and the transmitter will again operate...for awhile. I have swapped different transmitters and gotten the same results so I am confident the problem is related to the sensor board in the bucket.  I can keep the bucket inside where the temps are 70 ish and it never fails to transmit!  But we are in a weird warm spell where the ambient temp is in the 50's so it obviously doesn't take much of a drop to fail this thing!

I have been reading my manual collector and operating the tipping bucket as required to keep my rain data somewhat near correct.  Beats manual corrections to VWS :)

I was curious as to whether anyone else had experienced or heard of such a failure of the RGR968.

I have a replacement coming from Ambient but ups says it will be the 29th before it arrives...even with it being ordered earlier this week!

So much for the 3-5 business day thing huh?

I am seriously considering some sort of heater to keep the unit at what it determines is operational temperature but I haven't yet had the opportunity to measure it during this time..


Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217

I have never had a failure on the rain gauge, but my system has only been up for 11 months. I have already replaced the primary outside temp/humidity sensor once.  Since your shipping time is not very good, I say take this time and use your broken unit to fabricate your heated rain gauge parts and stuff.  And perhaps do not use your "new" transmitter and it's "new" battery until one of those go bad.  That way if you have a transmitter issue in the future you are covered.  My only problem was to get my "bad" temp sensor fixed, I had to send them both parts back.  So I have no spare parts.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: racenet on December 21, 2008, 10:23:24 AM
I think "Business Days" are counted a little differently during the week of Christmas.

http://www.compass.ups.com/article/article.aspx?id=2289

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: W Thomas on December 21, 2008, 01:14:34 PM
I have never had a failure on the rain gauge, but my system has only been up for 11 months. I have already replaced the primary outside temp/humidity sensor once.  Since your shipping time is not very good, I say take this time and use your broken unit to fabricate your heated rain gauge parts and stuff.  And perhaps do not use your "new" transmitter and it's "new" battery until one of those go bad.  That way if you have a transmitter issue in the future you are covered.  My only problem was to get my "bad" temp sensor fixed, I had to send them both parts back.  So I have no spare parts.


That is exactly what I have decided to do.. Having a spare transmitter could turn out to be a real blessing. Also have the heater section ready to go less controller.. I haven't decided whether to go with a fixed duration setup or one that works totally on temperature.

I am in hopes the package will arrive earlier than the last of the month but with the approaching holiday I doubt it will.



Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: W Thomas on December 21, 2008, 01:18:01 PM
I think "Business Days" are counted a little differently during the week of Christmas.

Yeah.. I think that's the case !  I would like to receive it earlier so as to get back to some aspect of normal sooner..but I am very fortunate that
it is not the anemometer or outside thermo/hygro sensor... I'd be somewhat stuck then for sure!  at least I can manually manipulate the bucket for an almost real time reading :)




Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 21, 2008, 01:54:00 PM
I think I am going to stick with manual. Thermostat does not really make sense for me.  I know it will be below freezing pretty much till March.   It can be minus 20 for a week with no snow, so after this round of storms, I will dial it back, and turn on based on the forecast.  Regardless its on from 4pm to 11pm as that is when my landscape lights are on.  I can adds some "timer ons" midday just to catch some none forecasted precip.

Andrew

I haven't decided whether to go with a fixed duration setup or one that works totally on temperature.
Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: W Thomas on December 21, 2008, 04:02:59 PM
I think I am going to stick with manual. Thermostat does not really make sense for me.  I know it will be below freezing pretty much till March.   It can be minus 20 for a week with no snow, so after this round of storms, I will dial it back, and turn on based on the forecast.  Regardless its on from 4pm to 11pm as that is when my landscape lights are on.  I can adds some "timer ons" midday just to catch some none forecasted precip.

Andrew

I haven't decided whether to go with a fixed duration setup or one that works totally on temperature.
Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217
Strange part of my failure is that it seems to make the sensor board operate outside it will require heat almost all time in the winter/fall seasons due to whatever is at fault...problem is I haven't yet determined how much heat is needed.

I have about decided to wire the heater(providing it's a halogen bulb) into my landscape lighting around the deck which hasn't been used in ages...if I can locate where I put the timer/transformer. Strangely no one I have talked with has ever experienced a failure of a RGR968 sensor like this!!  Go figure..If its odd It'll happen to me here  :)

BTW did you clear up your interference issue on channel 1 ?



Wayne
www.smythweather.net
CW8217
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on December 21, 2008, 04:42:04 PM
It fixed itself, luckily.

Andrew


BTW did you clear up your interference issue on channel 1 ?

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Mark / Ohio on December 21, 2008, 08:47:06 PM
My heater is plugged in inside a tool shed.  I used a thermostatic power cube for awhile on it but found it was staying just warn enough inside the shed that it could be snowing and still not kick on especially if temps had been warmer during the day.  So I bought a wireless plug in switch like used to turn off Christmas lights without going outside.  That works fine from inside the house but left me wondering with no indicator if it had actually turned on or off.  So digging through the workshop boxes of junk stuff I might still use,  ;) I found an old 9 volt charger for a long tossed battery grass shear and an automobile side marker lamp that I had on my moped many years ago as a kid.  I mounted the lamp on the outside of the shed and plugged the old charger powering it into the switch with the heater.  When the heater is on I can see the red light glowing from the house.  Makes for a quick way to check for those times I have a brain fart and cannot remember if I turned it on.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on December 21, 2008, 09:07:26 PM
That 's what i did with my FARS. I have an LED mounted near the top and aimed at the house so I know I have 12v supply going to the fan and heater unit...
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on January 15, 2009, 07:26:25 AM
I missed getting a temp reading in the gauge when it was -25c out the other day. However it was a balmy -16 last night.  I used my probe thermometre.  the temperature in the opening registered +16.6C (62F)

Andrew
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on January 15, 2009, 09:16:44 AM
I missed getting a temp reading in the gauge when it was -25c out the other day. However it was a balmy -16 last night.  I used my probe thermometre.  the temperature in the opening registered +16.6C (62F)

Andrew

Sounds good.  I am still waiting for some frozen Precip of some kind, to give mine the two thumbs up approval.  It's been an unusual winter here for us this year.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: SlowModem on January 15, 2009, 09:35:09 AM
Sounds good.  I am still waiting for some frozen Precip of some kind, to give mine the two thumbs up approval.

Well, if you don't have any laying around, here's some for you to use:(http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/twothumbsup.gif)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on January 27, 2009, 09:35:05 AM
It looks like this thing may finally be working.  I have gotten 0.14" of precip. for our current "winter event" this morning.  If it continues to update "well" through the day, I can then finally call it a success.   :???:

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on January 27, 2009, 12:18:14 PM
Same here Sam,
  I received .12 inches of precipitation. seems to be working great! I'm liking this heater thangy! :)

Jim
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on January 27, 2009, 01:37:32 PM
Sure wish mine was isntalled. Recieved 0.04 before the guge froze up. Getting just rain here now. But I'm missing it because the guage is froze.

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on January 27, 2009, 01:41:53 PM
Quick go grab a hair dryer and long extension cord.    :-P
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on January 27, 2009, 01:43:19 PM
ZAP!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: W Thomas on January 27, 2009, 04:19:53 PM
ZAP!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:




Christy's hair dryer has a built in GFCI . Want me to send it over real quick :)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: mackbig on January 27, 2009, 06:56:30 PM
Congrats Jim, you waited a long time for this.  Sorry your xmas was not white, but at least you got some melt...

Andrew

Same here Sam,
  I received .12 inches of precipitation. seems to be working great! I'm liking this heater thangy! :)

Jim
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on January 27, 2009, 09:50:27 PM
Thanks Andrew,

Yeah, it's nice to see something you built actually work and not fail!  =D&gt;  =D&gt;

Jim
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on January 28, 2009, 07:29:59 AM
Well mine finally thawed out on it own. But who knows how much precip I missed. I guess I really need to have a manual rain guage also.

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on January 28, 2009, 07:54:46 AM
Final tally - .32 inches of precip yesterday... Snow,mixed, and rain.....

Jim
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on January 28, 2009, 01:38:24 PM
Yesterdays total ended up being 0.36" That includes what was measured before it froze, the frozen precip that was in the guage and what fell after it thawed.

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on January 31, 2009, 09:16:05 AM
Sorry guys, I had to duck out for a few days, but I am back but only part-time for awhile.  My 84 year old grandfather fell and broke a leg in all of our frozen mess.  He lives 40 miles south of me so I have been keeping the roads warm and the car salty.   

On topic.....

It looks like I got around .44 of precip for those two days.  So I will declare success as well.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: jwyman on January 31, 2009, 09:45:42 AM
Sorry to hear that Sam. Hope all is well with your Grandfather....

Jim
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: W Thomas on February 01, 2009, 12:05:42 AM
Good to hear he didn't break his hip.. That's a tough deal at that age!
My grandmother went through that  a few years before her death and was having a rough go of it.

Hope you grandfather recovers quickly!
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on February 01, 2009, 07:44:17 AM
Wishing your grandfather a speedy recovery.

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on September 16, 2009, 01:32:56 PM
Considering that we are once again approaching the COLD time of year, I thought I would revive this thread with a few photos of my installation.

I went a little further with the "Reptile Heater Cord" method and ran the element around the "cone" of the collector too.  I get a GREAT melt rate by doing this, and no issues with temp changes on the VP2.  We have another VP2 .7 miles from my site that has the Davis VP2 heater installed.  My rain totals were right in line with that station during last year's snow storms, BUT my rain rate was much higher indicating that the Davis heater has a much slower melt rate than this $40.00 alternative!

The only problem I had with my original installation was that the duct tape I had used to secure the cord to the "cone" melted due to the heat of the summer sun.  This resulted in that entire coil coming loose and falling down on top of my tipping buckets!  To eliminate this from happening again, I removed  the tape and as much of the glue I could, and then reattached the element using 5 minute epoxy.  I also bought a second rain bucket from Davis, so that I don't have to leave the heated version up during the summer when it is not needed, and when the inside of the bucket can get VERY hot due to the summer sun.



Good job, on those ideas but this is the Oregon Scientific Hardware sub forum, you may want to post in this Davis Oriented thread.
http://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=1468.0
 :grin:

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: WeatherGoose on September 16, 2009, 01:37:59 PM
Oops!

I removed it.
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on September 16, 2009, 01:38:52 PM
Nice idea for the epoxy. :grin:
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: WeatherGoose on September 16, 2009, 03:36:49 PM
Thanks!

After the glue on the duct tape melted, (not from the heater but from the summer heat) I decided that something stronger was in order!  :-)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: sam2004gp on September 23, 2009, 01:41:21 PM
Hey Mods or Ken, can we make this thread a sticky?
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: Anthony on September 24, 2009, 08:47:50 AM
Thread is now sticky.

Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: doublecheese on January 07, 2010, 09:57:34 AM
Sorry for the ignorent question, but why would you need a heater for the Rain Collector ?

Is it because of the very cold temps where the rain collector might get frozen  ? Or is it for any other specific reason ?

The coldest we get over here is -2/-3C  (about 16F) and that's only a few days, generally we have 5-7C ( 41F) during winter , do I need a heater as well ?

Secondly is there a Gauge to measure snow and send this snow info wirelessly to WMR200 or the RFXCOM 433.92MHz receiver ?

Thanks
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: WeatherGoose on January 07, 2010, 08:31:54 PM
Sorry for the ignorent question, but why would you need a heater for the Rain Collector ?

Is it because of the very cold temps where the rain collector might get frozen  ? Or is it for any other specific reason ?

The coldest we get over here is -2/-3C  (about 16F) and that's only a few days, generally we have 5-7C ( 41F) during winter , do I need a heater as well ?

Secondly is there a Gauge to measure snow and send this snow info wirelessly to WMR200 or the RFXCOM 433.92MHz receiver ?

Thanks


In a word... "SNOW".  ;)
Title: Re: 'Cheap' Rain Collector Heater - Ideas - Plans - Tests
Post by: doublecheese on January 08, 2010, 04:02:43 AM
Sorry for the ignorent question, but why would you need a heater for the Rain Collector ?

Is it because of the very cold temps where the rain collector might get frozen  ? Or is it for any other specific reason ?

The coldest we get over here is -2/-3C  (about 16F) and that's only a few days, generally we have 5-7C ( 41F) during winter , do I need a heater as well ?

Secondly is there a Gauge to measure snow and send this snow info wirelessly to WMR200 or the RFXCOM 433.92MHz receiver ?

Thanks


In a word... "SNOW".  ;)

Damn :)

I wish we had snow over here, normally we get snow maybe twice a year and that is only a few days, I guess I should not be worried about the heating process of my rain collector than :)