Author Topic: Durable weather station choice for fire station  (Read 2303 times)

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Offline shrinkingmedic

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Durable weather station choice for fire station
« on: November 06, 2022, 10:18:03 PM »
I'm looking to put a proposal together for a weather station to be permanently mounted on a fire station in a mountainous, wildfire-prone area. It will be used for fire weather behavior and forecasting, among other things.

It should be/have:
  • Internet-connected
  • Wireless from sensors to display
  • Rain sensor
  • Budget <$2000 USD including all mounting hardware
  • Display unit
  • Durable with minimal maintenance on the outdoor hardware
  • Preferably wireless connectivity to local wifi network
  • Up to 150 MPH wind tolerance/measurement

I am very familiar with the Davis Vantage Pro2. I have two weather stations using this, along with USB dataloggers and the meteobridge uploading to CWOP, weather underground, etc. This setup is familiar, and yet cumbersome. This new outside weather station may experience winds up to 130 MPH
(210 km/h) regularly.

What's your best judgment on this setup? I feel that the Davis requires a lot of overhead for something that should be simple, and the WeatherLinkLive is not very good and requires a subscription. Is there something better available now? Last time I did extensive research was over a decade ago, and the Davis is.... well... the same as it was then.

Thanks in advance
shrinkingmedic

Offline CW2274

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2022, 10:50:38 PM »
Although most likely considerably out of budget, this is where you need to be.

https://www.youngusa.com/

Offline Mattk

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2022, 04:14:51 AM »
For those $$'s and what is essentially a critical purpose one would be hard pressed to scope a fit for purpose decent anemometer to meet those specs   

Offline broadstairs

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2022, 04:56:57 AM »
I agree for that budget you might just be able to buy the anemometer!

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor with Personal Weather Tablet as a console.

Offline mcrossley

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2022, 07:01:28 AM »
Not sure what you have against the WLL other than the (not that expensive in the scheme of things) subscription for full historic data access? In my experience they are very reliable, can be remotely managed, and do not have to be touched from year to year.

Whether the Davis kit is up to the rest of your spec is another matter.
Mark

Offline broadstairs

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2022, 07:14:16 AM »
Not sure what you have against the WLL other than the (not that expensive in the scheme of things) subscription for full historic data access? In my experience they are very reliable, can be remotely managed, and do not have to be touched from year to year.

Whether the Davis kit is up to the rest of your spec is another matter.

I have nothing against Davis gear, but I doubt the wind measurement would be reliable enough at those speeds, I suspect out of their specs although I've not checked.

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor with Personal Weather Tablet as a console.

Offline mcrossley

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2022, 07:22:59 AM »
199 mph was recorded with a Davis. But the problem at those speeds is flying debris, and no sensor will withstand that.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 07:24:33 AM by mcrossley »
Mark

Offline davidmc36

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2022, 07:24:36 AM »
Not sure what you have against the WLL other than the (not that expensive in the scheme of things) subscription for full historic data access? In my experience they are very reliable, can be remotely managed, and do not have to be touched from year to year.

Whether the Davis kit is up to the rest of your spec is another matter.

I have nothing against Davis gear, but I doubt the wind measurement would be reliable enough at those speeds, I suspect out of their specs although I've not checked.

Stuart

"Wind-tunnel tested to 200 mph/322 kph."

https://www.davisinstruments.com/products/anemometer-for-vantage-pro2-vantage-pro

Offline Arkadiusz_w

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2022, 12:01:52 PM »
Take a look at their instruments. They precisely measure the wind up to 75 m / s and are heated. Wind measurement is ultrasonic, the sensors are resistant to harsh conditions. There is a cloud and even a hongyuv console.

https://hongyuv.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-810537824/Ultrasonic_Anemometer.html?spm=a2700.shop_index.88.16
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HY-WDS65E-car-top-mounted-vehicle_60688206357.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.41413.21.68632fefeo1yyz

If you write to Hongyuv, they can configure any set you want. It can even be equipped with a GPS module as well as a compass and a console with Internet transmission, e.g. to your own base, hongyuv cloud and wunderground.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HY-WDS6E-weather-station-with-wind_60792346402.html?spm=a2700.shop_pl.41413.75.75907881xQOqim

https://hongyuv.en.alibaba.com/company_profile.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.88.26

The products are much better than Ecowitt and Davis. They can configure a sonic anemometer measuring up to 75 m / s.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HY-WDS65E-car-top-mounted-vehicle_60688206357.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.41413.21.68632fefeo1yyz

https://hongyuv.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-805298344/All_in_One_Weather_Station.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.88.18
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 12:09:28 PM by Arkadiusz_w »
Ecowitt WS90 1.3.8, WS80 1.2.5, Ecowitt WS68, Ecowitt WH31EP/WH32EP, WH40, WH57, WN34L, WH51, WN34D, HP2560_C, HP2550_C, GW1100, GW2000. Davis Vantage Pro 2, Davis Vue, Davis 6313, Hongyuv WDS2E

Barani Meteoshield Pro II, III, Davis FARS 24H

Offline broadstairs

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2022, 12:16:05 PM »
This OP asking is in the USA and they may not look kindly on ordering from a Chinese company. Also for a critical purpose I would not rely on an ultrasonic anemometer. If this really is a highly critical installation then IMHO the need a bigger budget for really professional equipment. If it is not that critical then I'd go for a Davis solution but avoid ultrasonics.

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor with Personal Weather Tablet as a console.

Offline Arkadiusz_w

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2022, 12:19:25 PM »
Why do you think so. Ultrasonic wind measurement is characterized by higher precision and better data availability than rotational anemometers. In addition, the durability to damage is better with ultrasound than with vane anemometers.

A pretty good station, even with radar rainfall measurement, is this:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HY-WDS6E-high-accuracy-Professional-Ultrasonic_60766397815.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.41413.13.3a6353b6Qkh35Q
Ecowitt WS90 1.3.8, WS80 1.2.5, Ecowitt WS68, Ecowitt WH31EP/WH32EP, WH40, WH57, WN34L, WH51, WN34D, HP2560_C, HP2550_C, GW1100, GW2000. Davis Vantage Pro 2, Davis Vue, Davis 6313, Hongyuv WDS2E

Barani Meteoshield Pro II, III, Davis FARS 24H

Offline broadstairs

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2022, 12:27:44 PM »
Why do you think so. Ultrasonic wind measurement is characterized by higher precision and better data availability than rotational anemometers. In addition, the durability to damage is better with ultrasound than with vane anemometers.

A pretty good station, even with radar rainfall measurement, is this:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HY-WDS6E-high-accuracy-Professional-Ultrasonic_60766397815.html?spm=a2700.shop_plgr.41413.13.3a6353b6Qkh35Q

Basically from personal experience with it. OK my station is not professional but even Davis have issues with ultrasonic anemometers. Top of the range professional equipment from companies in Europe or the USA with good back up and support is essential with critical installations, although we do not know how critical this request is yet. I only need to look round airfield and UK Met Office installs and I have yet to find one which has only ultrasonic anemometers.

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor with Personal Weather Tablet as a console.

Offline Arkadiusz_w

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2022, 12:32:09 PM »
Davis' sonic anemometers are a lime and do not measure correctly in harsh conditions. Here, even the Ecowitt WS80 and WS90 coped with ultrasonic measurements in precipitation and winter weather using heating.

Hongyuv is an acutely professional entity and has been on the market for many years. Their measuring instruments, especially when it comes to visibility, wind speed and direction. Rotational anemometers will be used less and less. It is the ultrasonic wind gauges that are more reliable in harsh climates due to the gates of moving parts and the presence of heating.
Ecowitt WS90 1.3.8, WS80 1.2.5, Ecowitt WS68, Ecowitt WH31EP/WH32EP, WH40, WH57, WN34L, WH51, WN34D, HP2560_C, HP2550_C, GW1100, GW2000. Davis Vantage Pro 2, Davis Vue, Davis 6313, Hongyuv WDS2E

Barani Meteoshield Pro II, III, Davis FARS 24H

Offline broadstairs

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2022, 12:37:15 PM »
I think we agree to differ.... this is getting off track from the OP's request.

Stuart
Ecowitt GW1003 with ultrasonic wind gauge, lightning sensor and PM2.5 sensor with Personal Weather Tablet as a console.

Offline Garth Bock

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2022, 02:18:02 PM »
@ Arkadiusz_w - Why do you recommend the Hongyuv station ? Do you own one or know someone who does ? Could you share some other sources where this station is written about or some weather tech review on it ? Just posting a sales link doesn't really tell the whole story. Or did you just do a search on Alibaba ? Are you connected to the company ?

Has anyone here heard of this station ? Seems to come from left field. If it were a truly professional station then why is there no mention of it over here ? If the OP were to invest in such a station where would he get support ? (granted some US companies are not that great at support at this time). To suggest such a high priced unknown station from an overseas vendor without any real US support is not a good solution. In the past there have been veiled sales attempts in this forum of Chinese knockoff "Professional Weather Stations" that infact were just cheap junk (one had a wind update time of 16 secs LOL.)

I went through the entire site and there is no mention of a console or an app to get the data. The only output mentioned is RS232/485. (I did finally find a page mention Modbus and dataloggers but as addons and not a total solution).  What if the OP wants to use WD, Cumulus, WeeWx or other software ? Well known companies such as Ecowitt, Rainwise, Davis, Accurite, or others with a US presence would be a better solution to the OP who lives in Colorado.

Offline TheBushPilot

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2022, 02:51:39 PM »
This OP asking is in the USA and they may not look kindly on ordering from a Chinese company. Also for a critical purpose I would not rely on an ultrasonic anemometer. If this really is a highly critical installation then IMHO the need a bigger budget for really professional equipment. If it is not that critical then I'd go for a Davis solution but avoid ultrasonics.

Stuart

I agree with Stuart. I wouldn't rely on an unfamiliar brand from China if you need reliable measurements in those kinds of conditions. While ultrasonic anemometers are okay (whether it be Vaisala or otherwise) over a wide operating envelope, something like those linked above I would not recommend. Heck they use them for ASOS sites but are built for traceable precision. Also something to consider is the maintenance of that type of anemometer. You can't really service an ultrasonic yourself, typically if something breaks on one of them you have to get an RMA and have the manufacturer repair it.

Unfortunately for what you are looking for I don't think you will find something that meets your requirements sub $2000. In my personal opinion I'd suggest steering away from consumer grade if you need it to withstand 150 mph on a quasi-regular basis. Now obviously you aren't experiencing those kinds of conditions daily but where you're located, the weather isn't necessarily cordial.

I would have recommended one of those Texas Weather Instruments stations with the Jr Wind Monitor but alas they are no longer in business..otherwise I can't recall any other consumer grade stations that meet your criteria other than Davis. :?

I'm not sure how technical you want to get with this system.

If you want an easy(er) solution, I'd still recommend Davis stations despite how clunky they may be since they are so easily deployable. It's still relatively comprehensive and easily communicates with web services like CWOP and WU wirelessly, and comes with a physical display. Furthermore, even if the anemometers lifespan is reduced because of how harsh the conditions are, replacing them won't cost an arm or leg. Even the most decked out station would still be within your budget.

The alternative to a ready to go station would be the professional route. While pricy and more involved, the instruments employed will last longer and allow for more customization. Campbell Scientific offers data loggers with wifi connectivity that allow for remote viewing of data via your computer through their LoggerNet software suite. You can use whatever sensors you'd like with your station. For one of their more modest loggers, you're probably running around $1500 roughly. Along with more robust instrumentation, the ability to calibrate them might be beneficial if you are using them for forecasting. Not sure what is involved there but I'd take it accuracy is an important aspect with that(?)

It may be unorthodox but you may be able to spare some costs by sourcing instruments second hand from say eBay or select surplus sites. Though I'm not sure how much which ever entity you are receiving funding for would approve of that move. Only thing I'd caution with going through with something like that if you do is the support manufacturers provide. Some of the second hand instruments are old and unsupported.

Another option might be Dyacon. They make professional ready to go stations for a few hundred over your budget. Only reason I hesitate recommending is because the anemometer is only rated for 134 mph and whether or not that's as user configurable as something from CSI or whether or not the wind speed tolerance is a deal breaker. Plus going this route kind of locks you into their brand. :-|

Of course all of that being said again I'm not sure how involved you'd want to be, and or whether or not you'd be able to negotiate a greater budget for more reliability/versatility. Or of course whether you need something that sophisticated or not. :-)

Cheers
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 02:59:22 PM by TheBushPilot »
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Offline Arkadiusz_w

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2022, 03:00:42 PM »
I have spoken to several dealers in Poland who sell Lufft, Gill and Vaisala products. They also have Hongyuv in their range.

They have sold quite a lot of it, they have been distributing for 4 years. Customers often recommend Hongyuv instead of the expensive Lufft, because it has a good price/quality ratio. Ecowitt, looking at the number of slip-ups, has lost a lot of credibility

I myself am currently downloading a Hongyuv product on special order for measurements in storm downbursts. The device will measure winds up to 60 m/s for me, plus heating and radar measurement of liquid and solid precipitation. It is to serve me in the field on the car.

Not everything from China is bad. I have spoken to people who install these sensors in Poland, they have sold a lot of it. There are no complaints about this equipment. There are customers who choose Gill, Vaisale and Lufft, but more and more are being convinced by Hongyuv, which beats Ecowitt in terms of quality, according to two independent assessments.

Straightforwardly, these companies specialising in the sale of meteorological instruments in Poland warned me about the quality of Ecowitt products, problems with quality control, unevenness of copies and a problem with the quality of measurements. I did direct comparisons of the WS68 with a WMO compliant wind gauge and in fact the Ecowitt WS68 does not meet any WMO requirements. It is a toy. Much better is the WS80/90, but they are still WMO non-compliant instruments. Hongyuv measuring instruments are WMO compliant. Just see what customer their instruments are aimed at and what Ecowitt is aimed at.

I was directly informed by two entities what also sell Davis that Hongyuv is a shelf above Davis. They have better instruments, each calibrated in a professional wind tunnel. They are used in road service as well as meteorological service in some countries around the world. Especially in Asia. Hongyvu wind gauges also go into wind farms and have a very good price/quality ratio.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 03:05:35 PM by Arkadiusz_w »
Ecowitt WS90 1.3.8, WS80 1.2.5, Ecowitt WS68, Ecowitt WH31EP/WH32EP, WH40, WH57, WN34L, WH51, WN34D, HP2560_C, HP2550_C, GW1100, GW2000. Davis Vantage Pro 2, Davis Vue, Davis 6313, Hongyuv WDS2E

Barani Meteoshield Pro II, III, Davis FARS 24H

Offline shrinkingmedic

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2022, 06:04:28 PM »
So after carefully reading all your comments and insight and following every link  (Thank you!), I have decided to go with the following setup:

Davis Vantage Pro2 Plus with fan
MeteoBridge Nano SD.

Thanks for all your help!

This setup including mounting hardware for wall mount on pole should come out to ~$1900 USD.

Cheers,
Shrinkingmedic

Offline CW2274

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2022, 06:29:38 PM »
Since it's so windy at the site, I'd go passive, and skip the fan entirely. Less money and no fan to worry about.

Offline CW2274

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Re: Durable weather station choice for fire station
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2022, 06:36:12 PM »
BTW, don't buy from Davis direct. They'll rake you over the coals. Just about everyone here uses Scaled Instruments or Scientific Sales.

 

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