Topic: A newbie asking for your advice ...

[Ronny St.]

Hi there,
First of all, my apologise for typing errors, as i am from Belgium and my native language is Dutch, but i will do my best And sorry for this long entry, but i will try to give as much information as possible. Please try to read it to the very end, despite the lenght of the entry...

After browsing the internet in search for a good weather station, i came across this forum. I have been reading here a lot and it is clear that this forum rules ! That is why i decided to register and asking you for your help.

About three years ago i bought me a Alecto WS-3000, just to have some information on some weather parameters (rainfall, wind, temperature, ...) outside. I want to point out that it is quite good, considering the ridiculous low price you pay for it. But, i soon found myself continuously monitoring the display and when 2 weeks ago, the anemometer broke down, i decided to go for much better stuff. Well, it surprised me to see such a variety of equipment on the internet.

What i am looking for is a good wireless system. I can mount the ISS to a mast on the roof, but it would be nice if i do not have to get onto the roof too much in order to clean the rain gauge, change the batteries, etc. The console would be in the living room about 15-20 meter from the ISS (only one double-glass windows, a thick brick wall and some wooden floors come between the ISS and the console), and my laptop is about 12 meter away from the console, in my office room (across another brick wall). So a good internal memory or a wireless transmission between the console and the laptop would be nice, in order to avoid having to move the console all the time between the living room and the office. A short update time of the parameters would be very nice also, the WS-3000 only samples every 48 seconds.

So, searching on the internet i came across types as the Oregon Scientific WMR88, WMR200, several La Crosse models, several Nexus models and, of course, the Davis Vantage Vue and the Pro 2.
If i would go for the Davis, i have some questions :
1. what is the actual size of the LCD screens of the consoles of the Vue and the Pro 2?
2. what about the topics i found here considering unaccurate calibration of the rain gauges and the leaking capacitor inside the consoles ?
3. i read that the new Pro 2 has an anemometer without a reed switch, which appears to get broken quite often
4. what type of datalogger (USB or serial with adapter) is best ? i do not have a serial port in my laptop, as serial ports are becoming obsolete in the computer world nowadays ... (i can't understand Davis has not developed a working and reliable system for a USB port of a computer/laptop)
5. what is the amount of data you can store in the console at the highest sampling rate (and i mean in length of time) ? i do not want to have to connect the console every day or two to the laptop in order not to lose any registered data
6. i can choose between 'normal' combination or the Vue with a Pro 2 console or a Pro 2 with the Vue console : what would be best in terms of keeping the price in an acceptable range ?

I do not have my laptop running 24/7 but i have a wireless router that is connected 24/7 to the internet, so maybe that gives some possibilities ? I might set up a webpage with actual data, but that will be something for the future.

So, would you recommend me a Davis or another brand/model. At first i had a budget of about 300 euros, but i am willing to spend to double money if i can find a system that meets my requirements.

I would appreciate your opinions, advice, remarks, etc a lot !

Thanks in advance helping me to make a good choice.

Ronny (Antwerp, Belgium)

[SlowModem]

I can't advise about purchasing a weather station overseas.  I'm sure there's all kinds of differences in the process between here and there.

I've had an OS station, a La Crosse station, and a Davis VP-2.  ( I have a Vue as a spare if I ever need one, but I haven't used it yet.)  I had them all three on the same pole so comparisons would be fair.  All three worked ok once I got the bugs worked out of them.  OS RH sensors for the WMR968 line were weak, and I had two fail before I changed to a solid state sensor (THGR122N).  The LaCrosse worked ok but the anemometer was cheap and had false wind spikes.  I got a cup-type anemometer instead of the original fan-type anemometer, and it worked very well from then on.

No problems with the Davis.  I dropped the console and broke the antenna and they sent me another console.  I give Davis customer service five stars.  They are customer oriented.   

I found OS customer service friendly, but unresponsive.  LaCrosse sent me a part, but didn't put any packing in it, so it broke and they had to send me a new part.  But they did it free of charge and promptly.

One thing you want to consider is that with the less expensive units, the reporting times for sensors drop off dramatically.  For instance, the LaCrosse only reported wind every 30 seconds or maybe even a minute (I don't remember exactly now).  The OS was a little bit better.  But the OS only recorded rainfall in 0.04 inch increments.   

The Davis reports wind and rain and temp every few seconds.

I've not had a problem with the Davis unit itself.  The only problems I had with the Davis was ants building a nest in the ISS, and birds using the rain gauge as a perch and toilet.     There are other threads on this forum where I have addressed those. 

To get your data from the console to the computer, you will have to get one of those pesky data loggers.  You may be able to use the WL IP version.  I have never had one, so I can't advise you on that.

I don't know if my OS station is operating now or not.  I sold it for parts.  I think my LaCrosse station is working (or at least parts of it is) in another country (that's another story for another time.)

I hope I haven't confused you.  We're here to answer any more questions you might have.  We love to spend other people's money!   

Good luck!

[PaulMy]

Ronny,
The VP2 anemometer can be placed up to 40 ft from the ISS (i.e. on the roof and the ISS near the ground) with the attached cable, or you can get an optional wireless anemometer transmitter.

My console is about 75 feet from the ISS through 2 brick walls and my Envoy is about 125 feet through 2 brick and one inside wall and no reception issues at all with either.  I use the Envoy to connect to the computer and the console is in the living area just to view.

1. the VP2 console is 24cm wide x 15cm high with the actual display of 15w x 9h (very solidly built).  I don't have the Vue but you can see a virtual image of the VP2 here http://www.komokaweather.com/weather/davconvp2CU.php and the Vue here http://www.komokaweather.com/weather/davconvueCU.php
2. I have had my VP2 for over 5 years and no problems at all.  I have just tested my rain gauge versus a manual gauge nearby and seems valid.
3. Again I have had no problems with the older style anemometer.
4. My USB datalogger has given me no problems at all, but you may want to consider the WeatherlinkIP version if you want to upload to say WU and don't want your computer running 24/7.
5. I have my logging set at 10 minutes and that gives me just over 17 days.
Here's the logger data storage based on the archive interval chosen:
Archive Storage Capacity (the amount of time before the archive is completely filled):
1 Minute Archive Interval . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 hours
5 Minute Archive Interval . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 days
10 Minute Archive Interval . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 days
15 Minute Archive Interval . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 days
30 Minute Archive Interval . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53 days
60 Minute Archive Interval . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 106 days
120 Minute Archive Interval . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 213 days
When "full" it overwrites oldest data.
6. I believe the VP2 console allows you to receive all the optional sensors available for the VP2 which the Vue console may not accommodate.
Sorry I can't help with pricing and believe the cost outside of North America is quite a bit more.

There are several alternate to Weatherlink programs available for the Davis including Cumulus.  When you're ready for your website Wim van der Kuil's template set http://www.weerstation-leuven.be/ will be one for your consideration along with the Saratoga template set.

Good luck on your search, and welcome to the forum.  By the way, I was born and lived until age 10 in Heist-op-den-Berg with relatives in Antwerpen.

Paul

[Ronny St.]

Hi all, thanks for the quick but very elaborate replies !
It gives me a lot of useful and real-live experience information. It is obvious that the Davis wins in terms of rigidity. The only thing that keeps me from ordering a Vue or VP2 right now is the way I can transfer the data to my laptop. The solution Paul suggested is very nice, but it requires another spending 464$ for an envoy and a data logger. I wonder why they sell the envoy and the data logger separately, as I cannot see what one can do with an envoy without a data logger. But this would be another topic to discuss
I see in the given table that the console logs 42 hours of data when sampling rate is set at a 1 minute archive interval. But I cannot figure out if that implies if that is the same time interval to update the data on the console. If so, setting the sampling at 2,5 seconds would mean that you can only store the data for about 1 hour and 45 minutes ?! Or is the interval of the figures reported on the console independent of the interval you really log into the memory ?
The links that Paul gave with the actual view of the consoles of the Vue and the VP2 are great ! That is the kind of information as one wants to see
Just a few remarks/questions (sorry;) ) : is the software (WeatherLink, Cumulus, etc) compatible with Windows 7 Enterprise as that is the OS I am running here.
An what version of datalogger is recommended ? Serial with a converter to USb or the USB version ? I see that Paul uses the USB version but I read that this often gives problems finding the connection.

Great support I got here for the first topic I started, and I want to thank you sincerely for that, guys !

Greetings,

Ronny

@PaulMy : what a coincidence that you lived your first 10 years in Heist-op-en-Berg : that is less than 20 km from my place The world can be small, is it not !

[SlowModem]

In your original post you stated:

I do not have my laptop running 24/7 but i have a wireless router that is connected 24/7 to the internet, so maybe that gives some possibilities ?

That made me think of the Weatherlink IP option.  I think that is exactly what it is designed for.  I know there are some here that run that version.  Hopefully they will give you more information on it's operation and capabilities.

Another thing you mentioned was the reliability of the usb datalogger.  I believe that they have been operating satisfactorily for the past few years.  I think maybe originally they may have had some problems, but it seems people are happy with their operation now.  Perhaps some USB logger people will chime in on this subject, too.

Good luck!

[PaulMy]

Hi Ronny, I am glad the information is helpful.

I see in the given table that the console logs 42 hours of data when sampling rate is set at a 1 minute archive interval. But I cannot figure out if that implies if that is the same time interval to update the data on the console. If so, setting the sampling at 2,5 seconds would mean that you can only store the data for about 1 hour and 45 minutes ?! Or is the interval of the figures reported on the console independent of the interval you really log into the memory ?

The logging interval settings only applies to the datalogger storage so that those 1 min, 5 min, etc. saved data can be extracted by software when needed.  The data received by the console/envoy in the 2+ seconds and longer depending on the type of data transmitted, is processed by the console/envoy and the result of that process is what is stored in the logger (this is my understanding anyway).

The links that Paul gave with the actual view of the consoles of the Vue and the VP2 are great ! That is the kind of information as one wants to see Smile

Those console scripts are courtesy of several contributors with recent modification and improvements for Cumulus users by BCJKiwi.

Just a few remarks/questions (sorry;) ) : is the software (WeatherLink, Cumulus, etc) compatible with Windows 7 Enterprise as that is the OS I am running here.

Yes Weatherlink and Cumulus is compatible with W7 and W8 as I am now using, and also with most of the other software as well.

@PaulMy : what a coincidence that you lived your first 10 years in Heist-op-en-Berg : that is less than 20 km from my place Smile The world can be small, is it not !

A small world it really is!  Until the past year our old house (early 1800s) was still visible in Google map, and the old landmarks such as Pilgrimhof and the Bos Kasteel that have great memories are still there.

Paul

[meteo-saint-brevin]

Hi Ronny,

I have been using a VP2 for 2 years now, without any problem. The console is connected to the PC with an USB datalogger which is very reliable.
I am using Cumulus since the beginning and it is a very powerfull tool. Have a look on my website to see what can be done with Cumulus. I also use Weatherlink but only for the Stats page.

Marcel

[Ronny St.]

Thanks again for your kind contributions to this topic 
I am now looking to the option of Weatherlink IP as Slowmotion suggests, but I wonder if it is compatible with the Vue, since the link given mentions  'A Vantage Pro, Vantage Pro2, or Vantage console, or a Weather Envoy' in the system requirements.

@PaulMy : nice to see that you still have good memories of our little country. If you should ever visit your relatives here, you are always welcome in my home ! Or, in Dutch (sorry folks for those who do not understand Dutch, I can assure this is the same message as given above in English) : Mocht je ooit je verwanten hier bezoeken, wees dan overtuigd dat je hier meer dan welkom bent !

@meteo-saint-brevin : great stuff you have online, it is really impressive !

Greetings,

Ronny

[SlowModem]

Thanks again for your kind contributions to this topic 
I am now looking to the option of Weatherlink IP as Slowmotion suggests, but I wonder if it is compatible with the Vue, since the link given mentions  'A Vantage Pro, Vantage Pro2, or Vantage console, or a Weather Envoy' in the system requirements.

I use a vue console for my vp2 ISS (the vp2 console is at my other house on the property where my parents house).  I would say they are interchangable.  But hopefully someone with a vue and WL IP will chime in.

[Ronny St.]

Well, I have been calculating a bit and trying to find the best solution for the situation here without having to spend more money than needed.
The first thing I noticed was the fact that an envoy costs just the same as an extra Vue console, so I wonder why one would buy a screenless 'black box' if you can have a LCD screen extra with the same possibilities ? Or am I missing something here ?
Then I came on the following solution : a Davis (Vue or VP2, I still have to decide that) with a VP2 console in the living room. I have to limit wiring as much as possible, since I cannot have wires all over the place). My laptop and a wireless router are in an adjacent room (my 'office'). I might connect a Vue console there with an IP logger to the router (as this has to be done with an ethernet cable, wireless transfer to the router seems not to be possible, unfortunately).

or

My router is a DLInk DHP-1565 which has also built-in powerline. As a matter of fact, I use this possibility to have an internet access point in a room upstairs, where I have my desktop PC. So maybe I can use an IP logger in the VP2 console in the living room, and then connecting it with a homeplug (DLink DHP-501AV) to the network through the nearby socket outlet. The only problem with that is that I normally have to log in to the router using a password (obviously), but I can't see how that can be done with a console instead of a laptop/PC.

Please let me know what you think of this options, and first of all, if it can be realized.

I hesitate buying Davis equipment if I see the problems this gives to connect it to something else, when e.g. a HW-Nexus Weather station has a built-in connection to a wireless router, and you can even add extra sensors to it, something that is not possible with a Vue ... Of course I don't what the accuracy is and the rigidity of the Nexus, or, most important the reliability and actual range of the wireless connections, but it costs only one third of a Davis.

Thanks again for responding !

Ronny

PS Oh yes, and another thing I was wondering : my old weather station is now about 4 feet above a flat roof with a coating in bitumen (sorry, I don't find the right English word for it). Doesn't that give deviating readings on for temperature and/or humidity measurements ? Should I have to mount the new weather station on top of a higher pole ?  

[PaulMy]

Well, I have been calculating a bit and trying to find the best solution for the situation here without having to spend more money than needed.
The first thing I noticed was the fact that an envoy costs just the same as an extra Vue console, so I wonder why one would buy a screenless 'black box' if you can have a LCD screen extra with the same possibilities ? Or am I missing something here ?

As I mentioned previously I have the Envoy that connects to my computer (the Vue was not available when I got my system), but if I was to do it over again I think I would get a second console now that I am into this hobby and totally satisfied with the Davis product and the Vue console is now a lower cost alternate to the VP2 console.  I believe the Vue console does have some limits on what it can receive from the VP2 ISS that has optional sensors but that may not be an issue for you.

PS Oh yes, and another thing I was wondering : my old weather station is now about 4 feet above a flat roof with a coating in bitumen (sorry, I don't find the right English word for it). Doesn't that give deviating readings on for temperature and/or humidity measurements ? Should I have to mount the new weather station on top of a higher pole ?

Ideally only the anemometer should be mounted up high and the ISS at about 5 feet above the ground, which is possible with a VP2 but not the Vue as it is fully integrated.

Paul

[Ronny St.]

Hi Paul and great to see you again

If I can find out if it is possible (and if so : how) to connect the console by a homeplug to my network, then I think I will go for a Pro2 with a Vue (or a Pro2 console : can't make my mind up about that yet, the difference is 80 euro which is about 110$ if you buy a 'special package') and an IP logger. I am trying to find out how to enable a connection without a password between the console and the router, but I did not find the answer anywhere (yet). With the Pro 2 I can separate the anemometer high on the roof and the ISS somewhere in the garden at about 5 feet above the ground, as you suggested. Makes cleaning the rain sensor, changing batteries etc. also much easier Update : this won't be possible as i just found that the anemometer has a wired connection to the ISS. I cannot put up a mast of 30 feet in my garden and when I place the anemometer above a roof, then the ISS will be in the vicinity of the house and/or a lower roof coated with bitumen and as a result the accuracy of the equipment would be spoiled due to bad placing. So it suprises me to see so many pictures when googling for images of the vantage pro2 where the equipment is not placed according to the guidelines given in the manual, even with the ISS on chimneys (what is the significance of measuring temperature in that situation ?!)...

Greetings,

Ronny

PS Just found that Davis do not have atomic clock sync, which surprises me : sampling at a rate of 2,5 secs, but no correction for the actual time seems odd to me.

[Bushman]

If your Davis is connected to your PC which uses clock synch you will get atomic accuracy.

[PaulMy]

Hi Ronny,

Update : this won't be possible as i just found that the anemometer has a wired connection to the ISS.

There is always the wireless Anenometer/Sensor Transmission Kit http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather-sensors.asp but at an extra cost!

So it suprises me to see so many pictures when googling for images of the vantage pro2 where the equipment is not placed according to the guidelines given in the manual, even with the ISS on chimneys (what is the significance of measuring temperature in that situation ?!)...

Yes a lot of people place their equipment in less than optimum location either by necessity or for convenience.  I have very tall trees around me and there is no practical way I can get my anemometer above the trees so I compromise and find the best location I have.  After all, for most of us this is just a hobby, but good for you to do your research and strive for the best that YOU can get within YOUR available resources.

Paul

[Ronny St.]

To give you an idea of my location I made a picture of the situation as it is now :



You can see my Alecto WS-3000 with the broken anemometer (the mechanics is still working perfectly after three years now, but I think the reed switch is broken). If I go for the Vantage Pro 2, I was thinking of mounting the new anemometer at the same location, and for the ISS I could mount a L-bracket to the side of the building. I know that placing the ISS at a height of 1.5 meter above ground level is perfect, but as you can see I do not have a good place for it there. The reason why I am thinking of placing the ISS at the side of the building is due to the fact that all the flat roofs you can see are covered with bitumen which radiates a lot of heat when the sun is shining, so temperature and humidity data would be quite erroneous. I want to use a L-bracket with a horizontal lenght of about 50 cm and a height of about 1 meter, so that it will come sideways above the roof to avoid as much radiation heat as possible, but at the same time to make maintenance plausible, but I wonder if my readings are representative there.

Another solution is to mount the new weather station to my gardenshed which is located about 35 meter from the house. It is a brick shed with black rooftiles. I might attach a pole to one of the walls and put the anemometer on top and the ISS lower (but then it would be in the shade of the shed for quite a big part of the day, which also is not very good, I presume. I could post a picture tomorrow if wanted, but I cannot take it now, since it is completely dark now outside

And a question to make me save a few 100$ without having to loose too much accurary : should it make a big difference if I go for the Vantage Vue and just place it where my old WS-3000 is mounted now (but on a higher pole, so that it gets higher above the roof) ?

All remarks, suggestions, etc. are welcome !

Greetings,

Ronny

[Ronny St.]

No reaction(s) anymore ?

[PaulMy]

From what you have shown it looks like you will need to compromise somewhere.  A vue at your current station or on the L bracket on the side will be somewhat what you are now getting from your current station.  If you could raise that it would be better.

A Vue in the garden with as much daily sunlight as possible may be a better site.  And a VP2 with anemometer and ISS separated by at least the 40 ft provided cable, keeping the anemometer as far away from trees or other obstructions as possible and the ISS in as much sun as possible may be the best option and location.

Paul

 

[Ronny St.]

Thanks for responding, Paul. I am still looking for a good compromise, as it turned out to be the most difficult part in putting up a weather station.

[George Richardson]

Ronny St
What direction is the back wall (I assume that is what we are looking at) facing?
George

[Ronny St.]

The back wall is facing directly south, as you can see in the google picture. So that is almost all day in the sun, if it shines

[George Richardson]

I think I would mount the anemometer at the "ISS" mark and make an extension in the southern direction from the wooden? porch to mount the ISS about 2' south of the back wall. Should be far enough not to be influenced by the black woods heat absorption.

FWIW

George

[Ronny St.]

First of all my best wishes for 2014, George and thanks for the reply.

Problem is that the flat roof above the porch is covered with pitch black bitumen, could that not be a problem ?

And about the anemometer : I am thinking to put it aside the highest window you can see in the picture, on a pole so that it would be about 1.5 to 2 meters above the highest point of the roof. Or, as an alternative, to attach a mast to the chimney, also in order to get the anemometer above the highest roof point. In both cases I will have to get me an anemometer kit, since the distance to the ISS will be a bit too long, I think. So that gives me the opportunity to put the ISS in the garden, 1.5 meters above groundlevel, as is advised. I really want to get the most of my new weatherstation, so I want to have it placed to give maximum accuracy and exactness in the acquired data

Kind greetings,

Ronny

[Ronny St.]

Ok, almost ready to order my stuff
I have the opportunity to buy a little pc for a very low price : a Aopen XC Cube mini-pc Intel celeron 2.4Ghz/1GB/80GB/Radeon. I wonder if it is a good idea to buy me a serial USB datalogger from Davis and install windows XP on the mini PC to run weather software (I am thinking of Cumulus, is that ok for my purposes ?). In that way I hope to be able to access my weather data wireless in my network whenever I want to, and upload the data to a weather website continuously (nor my desktop PC nor my laptop are running 24/7, but my wireless router is always active and has access to the internet).
The serial datalogger with the mini PC is cheaper than a IP datalogger from Davis and gives me the chance to connect the console wireless to my router, something that is not possible with the IP datalogger.
Before I was thinking of getting me a Meteobridge, but then I am restricted to use their netwerk and I don't like that.

Thanks for giving me more advice !

Ronny

[Bushman]

While it is true that you are attached to Smartbedded's network, you load your data to WU, Twitter, etc.  and  you can push data to your own SQL database.  Hard to be the cost/low power of that device.  And to answer your Q directly - yes, XP on the miniPC running Cumulus would be a great alternative but  needs either timing or 24/7 operations.

[Ronny St.]

Thanks for responding, Bushman.
I am afraid I do not understand the word 'Smartbedded's network'  I have searched for a translation on the internet but could not find the appropriate explanation...
Also I wonder what you mean by 'but needs either timing' ? How is that to be interpreted ?

I would let the mini PC run 24/7 (consumes only about 30 W, I think that is acceptable) to transmits the data wireless to my router (also active 24/7) and then from the router to the internet.
Once shared in the network here, I should be able to access the data also directly from the hard disk miniPC of download them from the internet.
That is my intention, but I am not sure that this is possible.
I also wonder if it is a problem that I am not familiar with SQL databases...

My planned equipment : a Davis Pro 2 with embedded fan and the anemometer kit so that I can put the anemometer on a good spot, and a USB datalogger to connect to the network and the internet, as described above.

Should I go for that ?

Ronny