Author Topic: Rephrasing to simplify  (Read 511 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ahill

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Rephrasing to simplify
« on: March 17, 2024, 10:44:42 AM »
Sorry i was getting a bit confused with everything so i am simplifying my question i think lol.

Let me narrow this down if i may.
I want to have two systems for now, the ambient and davis vp2
I want my data to be displayed on a console, my phone and pc.
I want to save as much data as possible and be able to look back at certain things at certain times.
I don’t necessarily need both going to cwop, wu, etc. i will choose which one for that.
I don’t want to set up a Rpi as of right now and don’t want my pc running 24/7.

1. Do i even need additional hardware and software for what i want to do ? If so,
2. What hardware is needed? Choices
3. What software is needed ? Choices

Note.
My ambient system currently does everything but the ambient network limits the frequency the data is saved and deletes it after one year.
I want to archive everything and keep it forever.

4.I have no idea how the Davis system does everything as far as viewing, sending, and storing data. is it similar to what ambient does?
5.For the vp2, questions 1,2,3 ?

Thanks for any help

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4850
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2024, 11:06:31 AM »
TBH I don't think anyone can decide for you as to exactly what you want or need. Running your own local software like CumulusMX is always likely to provide maximum features and flexibility. But it's also going to need more input from you to set it up and keep an eye on how it's running. Conversely, a modern console like the 6313 VP2 console (which you would automatically get with a new VP2 stations) will provide more limited features, but may do all you need, more so if you allow it to upload to the weatherlink.com cloud and especially if you upgrade to the annual Pro subscription so that you can view all your historical data online. But it will never be as fully-featured as running local software. Will it do all you need? Can you live with the limited compromises in data handling that you may need to make if only using a console? Only you can take that decision. :-)

There's plenty of information online as to what different solutions can provide. Here's a Davis promo video about the 6313 console for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdklOya_p-0

or for a more detailed look at basic 6313 configuration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xidr-jUqFGo

But remember that the 6313 console cannot accept a logger and so cannot connect directly to lcaol software.


« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 11:13:48 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline Ahill

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2024, 11:31:28 AM »
TBH I don't think anyone can decide for you as to exactly what you want or need.

But remember that the 6313 console cannot accept a logger and so cannot connect directly to lcaol software.

Thanks.
But im not asking anyone to decide what i want. I listed what i want but was needing help in what i need to do what i want if that makes sense as i don’t currently know what all the hardware and software does and is capable of.
For example the stock hardware that comes with the systems might be enough but as i explained with the ambient it doesn’t record enough or long enough
Thanks

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4850
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2024, 11:44:23 AM »
Yes, but my point is that you need to be more specific in what you are asking about. Your listed requirements are too general at present and many different weather station solutions will meet your current list.

So, the simplest solution is perhaps just to use a VP2 6313 console uploading to a free account at weatherlink.com and not using any additional computer or software at all. But although this will meet all your listed requirements in general, there may be details where you want more.

for example, a free account at weatherlink.com can only forward data to CWOP, WU and WOW at present, and with a minimum interval of every 15 minutes. Is that OK for you or not? Do you want to be able to access your historical data online? In which case you will need a Pro subscription. Is that acceptable or not? Maybe you want to do more detailed data analysis than the console currently provides? etc...
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline davidmc36

  • He who dies with the most toys wins!
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1257
  • FN25ie61jw
    • MorewoodW34
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2024, 03:04:12 PM »
It sounds like Data Storage is very important to you.

Cumulus MX on RPi Zero W with MeteoPi Logger will allow lots of data storage (use large SD Card), local network viewing on your PC and phone ( expandable to WAN access), and do it all with no ongoing costs to store data.

WAN access could be done "In House" with proper security protocols, or for a modest cost, hosted at a sever. The Cumulus software simply sends data to your host:

https://www.morewoodweather.ca/CumulusMX/gauges.htm



Hmmmmm. On review. It's not so easy if all you have is 6313 console. Can you purchase with older style still?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 03:15:01 PM by davidmc36 »

Offline Ahill

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2024, 03:53:18 PM »
It sounds like Data Storage is very important to you.

Cumulus MX on RPi Zero W with MeteoPi Logger will allow lots of data storage (use large SD Card), local network viewing on your PC and phone ( expandable to WAN access), and do it all with no ongoing costs to store data.

WAN access could be done "In House" with proper security protocols, or for a modest cost, hosted at a sever. The Cumulus software simply sends data to your host:

https://www.morewoodweather.ca/CumulusMX/gauges.htm



Hmmmmm. On review. It's not so easy if all you have is 6313 console. Can you purchase with older style still?
Well actually i was only planning on getting the 6312 console.
I don’t know if i would say data is super important but would just like to send to cwop, wu. Frequency of 5 minutes and view everything either on console, phone or pc.
As for history the length of time(years) is more important than frequency.
The only other thing i might consider doing, and thats a big might, is some sort of weather webpage similar to what some members on here have. Can the live console data that goes to cwop, wu etc go to a personal website like yours without additional hardware
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 03:56:11 PM by Ahill »

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4850
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2024, 04:10:05 PM »
Hmmmmm. On review. It's not so easy if all you have is 6313 console. Can you purchase with older style still?

Complete stations with legacy consoles are officially discontinued now and stock is no longer available from Davis. That said, there might well be some still in the supply chain though I suspect that available units are quickly disappearing. Of course you might still be able to find a legacy VP2 or Vue console as a separate item.

And Envoy units are NOT being discontinued so that (plus logger of course) or a 6100 WLL unit is another way of passing data direct to a local computer. TBH a 6313 console plus a 6100 WLL gives you the best of both worlds, but obviously at significant extra cost.

TBH my advice these days is to get a VP2 station with the 6313 console and set up uploads to weatherlink.com. See how you get on with that. Many people I suspect will be satisfied with that as a solution, especially if you are willing to buy the Pro sub. But if you find that you want features that are not provided by the standard 6313 package then be prepared for the extra cost of buying an additional receiver unit of some description that is compatible with local software.

Of course it's always possible that Davis might add a local  API to the 6313 console and so solve the problem that way. We can always live in hope.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 04:34:26 PM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline Ahill

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2024, 04:24:31 PM »
Yes, but my point is that you need to be more specific in what you are asking about. Your listed requirements are too general at present and many different weather station solutions will meet your current list.

So, the simplest solution is perhaps just to use a VP2 6313 console uploading to a free account at weatherlink.com and not using any additional computer or software at all. But although this will meet all your listed requirements in general, there may be details where you want more.

for example, a free account at weatherlink.com can only forward data to CWOP, WU and WOW at present, and with a minimum interval of every 15 minutes. Is that OK for you or not? Do you want to be able to access your historical data online? In which case you will need a Pro subscription. Is that acceptable or not? Maybe you want to do more detailed data analysis than the console currently provides? etc...

Thank you for breaking it down further. I had just replied but something happened and its not showing so i will try to summarize it again.
Yes to everything you said.
Sounds as if a vp2 with a pro subscription would work for now. But i would like 5 minute updates instead of 15, and Its fine that it only goes to cwop and wu.
I want to view data on the console, phone and pc. My ambient does just about everything but only stores data first 6 months i believe every 10-15 minutes then from 6-12 months every hour which is ok but then deletes everything after 12 months
I would like to have access to it for many years
I would like to access the data online but be nice if it were available locally as well. Locally is not that critical as long as i can always access it online. Again the length its available to view (years) is more important.
The console i was considering was a 6312. And when you say”weatherlink” this is where i get a bit confused as i seen its “software” that you purchase similar to meteobridge or cumulusmx. I didn’t realize its just online services just like ambient’s ambientweather.net or am i mistaken.
As long as the console displays everything 24/7, sends it to cwop and wu, i can view everything on the console, phone or pc. Stores all the data for years that i can easily access anytime I want and updates as frequently as 5 minutes ( not to be confused with the console update from the sensor) thats most everything right there.
As for data analysis the wind and pressures are the most important. Would like to have the most options for those.
The only other thing I mentioned that i might consider, and its a big might, is doing some sort of personal weather webpage. I don’t know if the information that updates to cwop, wu etc can go to a personal website and if additional hardware/software that has to be running 24/7 is required for that.
Thanks again for your help



Offline Ahill

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2024, 04:28:44 PM »
I have to add that i need to separate the anemometer from the sensor suite mainly because of lightning damage, distance being the other so i would probably go the route of needing a transmitter for the anemometer. The reason for the 6312 console was for savings on costs

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4850
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2024, 04:47:32 PM »
OK, some further clarifications:

If you get a Pro sub then you can set a 5 minute storage interval on the archive records (and IIRC also on the uploads to other platforms like WU, but don't quote me on that).

I think you are missing the point that the 6313 console is effectively its own computer and software. So it will store data long-term (many years) and allow you to recall and chart historic data, for example. The only limitation is that after 6 months (IIRC) 5 or 15 minutes records are summarised into hourly records on the console to allow virtually unlimited long-term storage on the console. But if you have 5-minute intervals set then full resolution data will be preserved at weatherlink.com.

Yes, the term Weatherlink is used in many different senses by Davis and is the source of endless confusion. Davis use this brand term for almost anything to do with data handling, eg:

  • Weatherlink.com - the cloud platform
  • Weatherlink Live the 6100 no-display but with local API receiver
  • 6313 Weatherlink console
  • The old local software, eg Weatherlink for Windows
  • The legacy loggers for the legacy 6312/6351 console, ie serial, USB or Ethernet loggers were always known as Weatherlink USB logger and so on
  • etc

This is why in the context of Davis stations it's almost meaningless to talk about 'Weatherlink' without some further qualification.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 04:51:13 PM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline Ahill

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2024, 04:55:02 PM »
OK, some further clarifications:

If you get a Pro sub then you can set a 5 minute storage interval on the archive records (and IIRC also on the uploads to other platforms like WU, but don't quote me on that).

I think you are missing the point that the 6313 console is effectively its own computer and software. So it will store data long-term (many years) and allow you to recall and chart historic data, for example. The only limitation is that after 6 months (IIRC) 5 or 15 minutes records are summarised into hourly records on the console to allow virtually unlimited long-term storage on the console. But if you have 5-minute intervals set then full resolution data will be preserved at weatherlink.com.

Yes, the term Weatherlink is used in many different senses by Davis and is the source of endless confusion. Davis use this brand term for almost anything to do with data handling, eg:

  • Weatherlink.com - the cloud platform
  • Weatherlink Live the 6100 no-display but with local API receiver
  • 6313 Weatherlink console
  • The old local software, eg Weatherlink for Windows
  • The legacy loggers for the legacy 6312/6351 console, ie serial, USB or Ethernet loggers were always known as Weatherlink USB logger and so on
  • etc

This is why in the context of Davis stations it's almost meaningless to talk about 'Weatherlink' without some further qualification.
Ok thanks and yes thats why i am confused lol
So for now sounds like as you say just the vp2 and pro sub would cover just about everything  except if i wanted to do a website probably.
But what about the 6312 console which is what i was considering along with a transmitter for the anemometer to separate it from the sensor suite
Will the 6312 work for what i was looking to do?

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4850
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2024, 05:07:28 PM »
Any console (6312/6313/6351/6100) can receive data from a supplementary wind transmitter. Sure, you have to configure the channel parameters etc, but they will all do the job.

As I posted above, if you buy a new VP2 station now then it will likely come with the 6313 console. Some outlets may still have the odd one or two units of old stock with the 6312 console - you would have to ask the supplier. But of course if you have a 6312 console then you also need to buy a logger. 6312 consoles are probably still available if you look hard, but I'm honestly not sure it is a sensible buy nowadays and it might work out more costly than a standard 6313 VP2 station.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline Ahill

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2024, 05:26:50 PM »
Any console (6312/6313/6351/6100) can receive data from a supplementary wind transmitter. Sure, you have to configure the channel parameters etc, but they will all do the job.

As I posted above, if you buy a new VP2 station now then it will likely come with the 6313 console. Some outlets may still have the odd one or two units of old stock with the 6312 console - you would have to ask the supplier. But of course if you have a 6312 console then you also need to buy a logger. 6312 consoles are probably still available if you look hard, but I'm honestly not sure it is a sensible buy nowadays and it might work out more costly than a standard 6313 VP2 station.

Sorry I entered 6312 i meant 6351
A “logger” you say so will the 6312, 6351 still do everything with the data i had mentioned or i need the logger to do so.
A 6313 comes with a logger but the 6312,6351 does not.

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4850
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2024, 05:41:25 PM »
The old 6312 and 6351 loggers are fairly dumb devices and cannot do much beyond displaying the current data and being able to pass data to a data logger. So if you want to pass data out to software running on a local computer then a separate logger is essential. Then I think we are back to where you came in. What you can do with the data on a local computer will depend on the software you're running.

Or you could use an enhanced logger like WiFi logger or Meteobridge which provides some of the functionality of computer software, without needing to actually run a separate computer. Personally I wouldn't consider a 6351 console because a wind transmitter is the only supplementary transmitter that it can receive and so it could limit future expansion, but it's obviously your decision.

There is not really any concept of a separate logger with the 6313 console because all the computing power to process and save the weather data is built into the console. But I guess in a sense then yes the logger functionality is built into the console.

A couple of years ago I did put together a schematic showing what the different types of logger can do. You can view it at:

https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=39751.0

But that was before the 6313 console was released - I really need to try and update this sometime! But it would get even more complicated!  :grin: :grin: :grin:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2024, 05:43:40 PM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's FAQ/support site for Davis stations
Includes many details on 6313 Weatherlink console.
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Cambridge UK

Sorry, but I don't usually have time to help with individual issues by email unless you are a Prodata customer. Please post your issue in the relevant forum section here & I will comment there if I have anything useful to add.

Offline davidmc36

  • He who dies with the most toys wins!
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1257
  • FN25ie61jw
    • MorewoodW34
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2024, 07:21:40 PM »
If you really want to keep personal website options open and would be happy with the format of 6312 console.....they ARE available on Ebay. New is pricey....some used look legit.

Offline Ahill

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Rephrasing to simplify
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2024, 08:03:05 PM »
If you really want to keep personal website options open and would be happy with the format of 6312 console.....they ARE available on Ebay. New is pricey....some used look legit.

I think to start i am probably just going to concentrate on the weather station first getting it to at least do what i am currently doing with the ambient. And that is to display on the console, phone, pc, access and store data online for years with a weather link subscription,(hopefully it will also store locally on the console), and send data to cwop and wu with a frequency of every 5 minutes.Thats it!

Later i can work on more data logging,Rpi, website etc. i gather i don’t need the additional software, hardware just for that
hopefully just the basic vp2 pws with a subscription will do. From what i understand now it should. Correct me if im wrong lol.



 

anything