Topic: WeatherLink Console 6313 has arrived!

[Mapantz]

Every single morning now, the console is dead and unresponsive until I power cycle it.

Davis customer service is a disgrace.

Absolutely fed up with this bullsh*t!

Console has completely frozen now:

https://ibb.co/CHGW5Wv

[Bellmac]

I'm not talking about junking the system that sends data from the sensors, although it is pretty dated.  I am talking about an interface between the sensor data and the rest of the world.  Davis does have a number of those types of products (EnviroMonitor Gateways, Weatherlink Live, Weather Envoy), but some are way too expensive for regular consumers, both for initial purchase and subscription fees.  Weatherlink Live somewhat resembles what I am talking about, but still a bit expensive.

[johnd]

I'm not talking about junking the system that sends data from the sensors, although it is pretty dated.

Well TI CC10xx protocol may be dated in the sense of being introduced some considerable time ago (20-25 years plus, though there have been updates to the chipset family in the interim I believe). But the question I'm posing is which newer wireless protocol offers comparable features (low power, range etc) but better or more cost-effective performance?

I am talking about an interface between the sensor data and the rest of the world.  Davis does have a number of those types of products (EnviroMonitor Gateways, Weatherlink Live, Weather Envoy), but some are way too expensive for regular consumers, both for initial purchase and subscription fees.  Weatherlink Live somewhat resembles what I am talking about, but still a bit expensive.

OK, but other similar receivers for Davis data like MeteoStick (as the basis for such a 'translator' device) or Meteobridge Pro (as a more complete solution) are also much the same price. It seems to be the going rate for such a device when all the development, production and support costs are factored in. I don't condone the Davis pricing or defend it, but it is what it is. Davis is neither a charity nor an open-source outfit, but a business. And in business to make a profit. Davis is surely entitled to price products so as to maximise profit, just like any other business. I'm not sure that the right decisions are always made about pricing, but no-one here is privy to all the development, production and support costs that Davis have to account for (plus AEM pressure no doubt) and so I for one am not going to try to second-guess their pricing algorithms.

Ultimately IMHO it all comes back to competition, either for weather station systems in general (comparable to VP2 I mean) or just for a translator device to WiFi or BT or whatever. All the information is out there in the public domain (and has been for many years) to make a third-party translator device, whether it be based on say MeteoStick or eg RTL-SDR or using the TI chips directly, but I don't see anyone stepping forward to develop and market such a device. Maybe the economics aren't so attractive after all? Perhaps an overall sales volume of maybe 10,000 units (at an optimistic guess) over several years is not sufficiently enticing against the potential profit for a $100-150 product? Just speculating out loud - I don't pretend to know the answer. All I do know is that no such product seems to be currently forthcoming.

[Bellmac]

JohnD-

Don't get me wrong.  I am not on a rant about evil corporate types exploiting its customers.  But, in general, when companies make products most efficiently and at the lowest cost, both the company and its customers benefit.  It is supposed to work that way.  No charity involved here, just the natural workings of the marketplace.  I perceive the 6313 as an attempt by Davis to modernize its products, which is a good thing (much like nautical navigation instrumentation going from Loran to GPS - the VP2 reminds me of my old clunky Loran receiver).  I am questioning the strategy of in-house development of a stripped-down tablet when it might be far more economic to avoid display development and go with an existing inexpensive, widely-available product.  Much of this tends to look like Davis trying to drive customers to use the premium (i.e., not for free) Davis cloud services even when they do not really need that.  I don't know if the 6313 is a stripped-down Android OS (cannot tell from the T&C's), but if it is not, the cost for Davis to develop its own OS is substantial and the customer has to pay for that.  Again, my $100 Samsung tablet has about twice the display area as the 6313 and probably a lot more horsepower and memory.  Why do OS development when Android and other tablet manufacturers have already done it and spit out updates regularly.  Much better to put the work into a separate data interface and Android (and Windows 11) apps.  If Davis does not do it, someone else probably will.

[johnd]

I do understand your thinking, but:

1. To the best of my knowledge, this is an Android tablet at heart, so Davis haven't remade an OS (and almost certainly wouldn't have the expertise inhouse to do that). The software is probably 'just' an app running over the top of the OS, but obviously with adjustments so that the tablet always boots straight into the app and I guess with some watchdog routines etc.

2. Interested parties have had 20 years now to create their own receiver and, other than a few hobbyists ingeniously decoding the sensor messages, there has been to my knowledge only one set of commercial products, ie Boris at Smartbedded with his Meteostick and Meteobridge Pro devices. They are both great products but not cheap because of low volumes and attract only limited interest. I struggle to see anyone else entering the market now, BICBW obviously. Plus Davis have obviously made their decision about interface architecture and created the 6100 WLL and 6313 products and it's difficult to see them changing tack now,

[miraculon]

Every single morning now, the console is dead and unresponsive until I power cycle it.

Davis customer service is a disgrace.

Absolutely fed up with this bullsh*t!

Console has completely frozen now:

https://ibb.co/CHGW5Wv

I see that the local console data is there, as is the wind info. Do you have a separate anemometer transmitter?

Have you checked the ISS battery? it almost looks like you are missing the ISS. A console reset might initialize the frequency-hopping sequence in the morning and there is enough for the ISS to begin transmitting again. Just a thought....

Greg H.

[Mapantz]

Every single morning now, the console is dead and unresponsive until I power cycle it.

Davis customer service is a disgrace.

Absolutely fed up with this bullsh*t!

Console has completely frozen now:

https://ibb.co/CHGW5Wv

I see that the local console data is there, as is the wind info. Do you have a separate anemometer transmitter?

Have you checked the ISS battery? it almost looks like you are missing the ISS. A console reset might initialize the frequency-hopping sequence in the morning and there is enough for the ISS to begin transmitting again. Just a thought....

Greg H.

Anemometer is on it's own transmitter.

All transmitter batteries are fine. My WLL picks them all up fine and there's barely ever a resync.

The WLL shows each transmitter's RSSI between -50dB and -60dB. The console is always -80dB to -90dB and is constantly resyncing. The antenna placement on the console is absolutely shocking in terms of signal.

[maltbie]

Maltbie-

Did you try the factory reset, which can be found in the Device Information screen.  When I first got mine, I messed up some stuff, so just did this.  It is a complete start-over and re-provisioning.  It is briefly discussed in the last part of the manual and some other Internet sources (Prodata).  It will revert to the original firmware and then update to the latest.  All data is lost.

No.  I don't want to lose my data and when it installs the latest update, it will likely fail again.

I spoke to Davis technical support.  They are aware of the problem and don't have a fix yet.

Davis is sending a new unit to me.  None of their fixes worked.

[WheatonRon]

Maltbie-

Did you try the factory reset, which can be found in the Device Information screen.  When I first got mine, I messed up some stuff, so just did this.  It is a complete start-over and re-provisioning.  It is briefly discussed in the last part of the manual and some other Internet sources (Prodata).  It will revert to the original firmware and then update to the latest.  All data is lost.

No.  I don't want to lose my data and when it installs the latest update, it will likely fail again.

I spoke to Davis technical support.  They are aware of the problem and don't have a fix yet.

Davis is sending a new unit to me.  None of their fixes worked.

After you receive your new console, please post an update to this thread and inform us whether it fixed your problems!

[Mapantz]

The current conditions used on the new Davis console is unbelievably bad. For the past 3 days it has been showing overcast during the day, despite it being blue skies and sunny for much of the country. I don't know what provider they use, but it's absolutely crap.

[GaryGo]

The current conditions used on the new Davis console is unbelievably bad. For the past 3 days it has been showing overcast during the day, despite it being blue skies and sunny for much of the country. I don't know what provider they use, but it's absolutely crap.

Overall, the conditions and forecast I see are good enough. (My station conditions are correct, I am referring to external data sent to the console by weatherlink.) My complaint is that the screen does not refresh automatically when some external data changes. For example, I adjusted my display to show the forecasted hi/lo temps, and these never change unless I touch the Home button and then return to the main screen. I have a bug report in to Davis for this, but it has been hard to convince them that the problem is not with the forecast itself, the problem is that the main screen does not automatically refresh every few hours to show the latest forecast. I sent Davis video of me refreshing the screen to show that the displayed numbers change when I touch the screen.

[Mapantz]

Overall, the conditions and forecast I see are good enough.

Took those pics a few minutes ago, and also a clip of the latest visible satellite image.

https://ibb.co/ZYsrcgJ
https://ibb.co/PxVNPC8
https://ibb.co/c2KzHyZ

Like I said, what weather provider are they using to get that information? It's appalling.

[WheatonRon]

While I don’t have the 6313 console, I do have 3 working 6312 consoles.The forecast on each of my consoles can be different even though the transmitting ISSs are only a few feet apart in my yard. I thought the forecast was derived internally in the console based on trends like changing pressure and how fast, change in temperature, etc. Maybe the 6313 console tries to locate a local forecast center, but I doubt it. In short, the console forecast is next to worthless.

[Mapantz]

While I don’t have the 6313 console, I do have 3 working 6312 consoles.The forecast on each of my consoles can be different even though the transmitting ISSs are only a few feet apart in my yard. I thought the forecast was derived internally in the console based on trends like changing pressure and how fast, change in temperature, etc. Maybe the 6313 console tries to locate a local forecast center, but I doubt it. In short, the console forecast is next to worthless.

Hi Ron

The new console is using a weather provider.

[WheatonRon]

While I don’t have the 6313 console, I do have 3 working 6312 consoles.The forecast on each of my consoles can be different even though the transmitting ISSs are only a few feet apart in my yard. I thought the forecast was derived internally in the console based on trends like changing pressure and how fast, change in temperature, etc. Maybe the 6313 console tries to locate a local forecast center, but I doubt it. In short, the console forecast is next to worthless.

Hi Ron

The new console is using a weather provider.

Then sounds like a question for Davis support. That would seem pretty elementary—using your coordinates finding a nearby “reliable” provider shouldn’t be that difficult if properly programmed at Davis—AND they have had over a year now, since Davis released the 6313, to “fix” this issue via a firmware update.

[Mapantz]

Blue skies all day again, but Davis says it's overcast. Even their forecast on the weatherlink bulletin page is completely wrong. It's embarrassing.

[WheatonRon]

Blue skies all day again, but Davis says it's overcast. Even their forecast on the weatherlink bulletin page is completely wrong. It's embarrassing.

This is a case of Davis over promising and under delivering. Unless Davis has created a sophisticated database or has access to one, the likelihood of a reasonably good real time weather conditions display at all locations around the world is low. For example, I live in a suburb 25 miles due west of Chicago. It is quite common to have precipitation at my home, it be clear in Chicago, and somewhere in between at the two local airports—O’Hare and Midway. So unless Davis can match a station’s coordinates with a nearby (less than a few miles away) reporting station, displaying current conditions or a decent forecast on a 6313 console is a joke.

[johnd]

Unless Davis has created a sophisticated database or has access to one, the likelihood of a reasonably good real time weather conditions display at all locations around the world is low.

That's not really how it works. The so-called hyper-local weather forecasting is big business now; there are several companies that offer this service worldwide (at least for the well-populated land masses) using the output of global weather models and tailored using a variety of other inputs to specific locations down to a scale of eg 100m (see eg the CW100 product). Davis would not do this themselves, but last I heard were sourcing this service from https://customweather.com/ (though of course this might be subject to change). Presumably using services like this costs substantial amounts and the accuracy of the forecasts may depend on the size of your wallet.

I have heard it said that some parameters like pressure and temperature are easier to model and thus to forecast, while others such as exact sky conditions or convective rainfall can unsurprisingly be much more tricky. If anyone wants to assess the accuracy of the forecasts then maybe it's better to focus on the numeric predictions of eg pressure and temperature and then score how accurately these might be predicted.

[WheatonRon]

Unless Davis has created a sophisticated database or has access to one, the likelihood of a reasonably good real time weather conditions display at all locations around the world is low.

That's not really how it works. The so-called hyper-local weather forecasting is big business now; there are several companies that offer this service worldwide (at least for the well-populated land masses) using the output of global weather models and tailored using a variety of other inputs to specific locations down to a scale of eg 100m (see eg the CW100 product). Davis would not do this themselves, but last I heard were sourcing this service from https://customweather.com/ (though of course this might be subject to change). Presumably using services like this costs substantial amounts and the accuracy of the forecasts may depend on the size of your wallet.

John,

Thanks for the clarification.—very helpful information.The website you referred to (custom weather.com) when I enter my location, directs me to a local airport 10 miles away (not O’Hare or Midway). And that website wants my town, city, or postal code not coordinates when accessing weather data. Interesting, that website predicts .70 inches of rain at my location come Monday, and the forecast on WeatherUnderground predicts .57 inches—directionality consistent but still different. That said, I don’t rely on weather information from that local airport, as it is usually wrong.

[Mapantz]

No other weather app, website, TAF/METAR or weather model has shown it to be overcast over the past 3 or 4 days.

Going to customweather.com and then searching my location give me this:

https://www.myforecast.com/index.php?cwid=gn2634776&language=en-US&metric=false&city_count=&search=1

Overcast...



Getting it from Bournemouth airport, but it isn't overcast there either

EDIT: Clarification of Bournemouth airport METAR

ms = 2024/05/11 19:50 EGHH
m1 = CAVOK
m2 = No Precipitation
rm = 6843
pw = Clear

[Mapantz]

It has changed to drizzle now, despite blue skies and sunshine.

[WheatonRon]

There are a lot of folks that participate in this Forum that hate WeatherUnderground—for a variety of reasons including being owned by IBM or “Big Blue,” WU management making its product “cheap” and “not as good as before” (IBM no longer owns The Weather Company including WU effective February 1, 2024). But at the end of the day, the WU forecast posted on the webpage displaying my pws data, is reasonably reliable, updated very frequently, and posts its forecast by day and by the hour over a span of 10 days. In addition, the radar image WU posts on my pws data is very useful, and like the forecast, reasonably reliable.

In short, much more useful than the 6313 console. Too bad Davis and the WU folks couldn’t work out a deal to post the WU forecast and radar directly on the 6313 console. That is probably not practical for a lot of reasons including technological and financial issues.

[ocala]

There are a lot of folks that participate in this Forum that hate WeatherUnderground—for a variety of reasons including being owned by IBM or “Big Blue,” WU management making its product “cheap” and “not as good as before” (IBM no longer owns The Weather Company including WU effective February 1, 2024). But at the end of the day, the WU forecast posted on the webpage displaying my pws data, is reasonably reliable, updated very frequently, and posts its forecast by day and by the hour over a span of 10 days. In addition, the radar image WU posts on my pws data is very useful, and like the forecast, reasonably reliable.

In short, much more useful than the 6313 console. Too bad Davis and the WU folks couldn’t work out a deal to post the WU forecast and radar directly on the 6313 console. That is probably not practical for a lot of reasons including technological and financial issues.

You have a valid point but in the end I just don't think we as a group look at the console for a forecast. To me at least it's just eye candy. When I want a forecast I look to the NWS forecast discussions. When I look at the console I'm looking for current data. That's all. And to be honest I really only look at it to make sure everything is working. But that's just me.

[Mapantz]

When I pay hundreds of pounds for something, I want it to work correctly. Besides all of the other issues with this console, getting the correct forecast via a GOOD weather provider isn't much to ask?

[CW2274]

There are a lot of folks that participate in this Forum that hate WeatherUnderground—for a variety of reasons including being owned by IBM or “Big Blue,” WU management making its product “cheap” and “not as good as before” (IBM no longer owns The Weather Company including WU effective February 1, 2024). But at the end of the day, the WU forecast posted on the webpage displaying my pws data, is reasonably reliable, updated very frequently, and posts its forecast by day and by the hour over a span of 10 days. In addition, the radar image WU posts on my pws data is very useful, and like the forecast, reasonably reliable.

In short, much more useful than the 6313 console. Too bad Davis and the WU folks couldn’t work out a deal to post the WU forecast and radar directly on the 6313 console. That is probably not practical for a lot of reasons including technological and financial issues.

You have a valid point but in the end I just don't think we as a group look at the console for a forecast. To me at least it's just eye candy. When I want a forecast I look to the NWS forecast discussions. When I look at the console I'm looking for current data. That's all. And to be honest I really only look at it to make sure everything is working. But that's just me.

What he said.