Topic: WS-2000 rain gauge dead?

[gszlag]

I am running out of troubleshooting ideas.

Yesterday was a rain day with at least 40 mm of rain - heavy at times.
The WS-2000 registered 0.0 mm rain. All other readings other than rain are normal.

The next day I took the 3 m pole down with the Osprey array to investigate.
 
I flushed out the debris out with a garden hose.No spiders - just a few dead flies and from what I can see, the tipping bucket is/was operating normally.

I removed the tipping bucket assembly... just to see what was underneath. As it turns out -not much.

Troubleshooting: I  manually depressed the spoon for 2 seconds about 10 times and measured rain once only but only on the GW1000 but not on the WS-2000 console???. I also used water but all I got was zeroes after several tries at different times throughout the day.

Forgot to mention that I rebooted the console a few times and re-registered the outdoor transmitter a few times. No luck.
The LED on the array is blinking normally.

How does a tipping bucket work? A little research indicates the the motion of the bucket (counterbalanced by a magnet?) actuates a reed switch that closes a circuit so that the tips can be counted.

Generally, it is said that reed switches are pretty reliable but you never know. Could be the rain gauge PCB has gone bad and is not registering the tips.

FYI. I live in Canada and originally bought the WS-2000 through amazon.com 2 1/2 years ago..

Although Ambient Weather delivers and sells internationally, spare parts are couriered through UPS so any replacement part that you order outside the U.S. will cost me about $75 CAD which is just about a deal breaker. Free shipping is for U.S. residents only. I was considering ordering the newer WH40E rain gauge from Ambient but it is out-of-stock but then again it would be almost $200 CAD.

The original rain gauge replacement cost would be about $107 CAD delivered.

A conondrum. Considering a brand new Ecowitt HP2551 is $299 CAD I am tempted to transition from Ambient to Ecowitt.

Any other suggestions for a fix or replacement would be welcome!

[Gyvate]

1st basic question (as we found this issue already several times):
did you update your console to the latest firmware 1.7.4 ? (updating helped to solve this issue in many cases)
The fact that your GW1000 detects the sensor and its readings points in this direction.
download https://ambientweather.com/mwdownloads/download/link/id/1108/
rename the file factory_1.bin to factory.bin and copy it to the root directory of a SHDC microSD card (SDHC is important, SDXC won't work) on a PC.
Inserting the microSD into the console again (careful, there is some space between the slot an the canvas, make sure your insert properly into the slot - otherwise it may slip inside and will be lost  ) will start the update process.
The right position of the card is when the printed side of the card shows away from you and the contacts towards you - looking at the console screen.

After having done that report back and we'll take it from there.

Another option, if the sensor turns out to be defective, is getting a replacement for the T/H/rain module from Ecowitt (15 USD - shipping included) - as this is inserted before it comes to the transmission unit, it shouldn't clash with the Ambient firmware. May take a few weeks until you get it though.

[gszlag]

1st basic question (as we found this issue already several times):
did you update your console to the latest firmware 1.7.4 ? (updating helped to solve this issue in many cases)
The fact that your GW1000 detects the sensor and its readings points in this direction.
download https://ambientweather.com/mwdownloads/download/link/id/1108/
rename the file factory_1.bin to factory.bin and copy it to the root directory of a SHDC microSD card (SDHC is important, SDXC won't work) on a PC.
Inserting the microSD into the console again (careful, there is some space between the slot an the canvas, make sure your insert properly into the slot - otherwise it may slip inside and will be lost  ) will start the update process.
The right position of the card is when the printed side of the card shows away from you and the contacts towards you - looking at the console screen.

After having done that report back and we'll take it from there.

Thanks Gyvate. Latest firmare is now installed. No joy though.
NOTE: The GW1000 will register rain one time only an but not on any subsequent tries after that.

Something odd here. Note rain shows on graph but not in the WeeWX sidebar. See attached screen grab:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

[Rover1822]

How many times did you push the bucket down?

Also, have you checked the batteries?

From the manual. "The bucket tips every 0.01” of rain" , I'll let you do the math conversion for mm.

[gszlag]

How many times did you push the bucket down?

Also, have you checked the batteries?

Good thought.  Changed batteries.. no difference.
Ambient doesn't provide guidance about manually tipping the bucket but Ecowitt suggests tipping 10 times at 2 second intervals... which I've done.
Interestingly WSview shows no rain today (despite the Weewx chart) ..but it did yesterday.

[Rover1822]

How many times did you push the bucket down?

Also, have you checked the batteries?

Good thought.  Changed batteries.. no difference.
Ambient doesn't provide guidance about manually tipping the bucket but Ecowitt suggests tipping 10 times at 2 second intervals... which I've done.
Interestingly WSview shows no rain today (despite the Weewx chart) ..but it did yesterday.

so for 10 tilts, one would expect ~2.5mm

[gszlag]

1st basic question (as we found this issue already several times):
did you update your console to the latest firmware 1.7.4 ? (updating helped to solve this issue in many cases)
The fact that your GW1000 detects the sensor and its readings points in this direction.
download https://ambientweather.com/mwdownloads/download/link/id/1108/
rename the file factory_1.bin to factory.bin and copy it to the root directory of a SHDC microSD card (SDHC is important, SDXC won't work) on a PC.
Inserting the microSD into the console again (careful, there is some space between the slot an the canvas, make sure your insert properly into the slot - otherwise it may slip inside and will be lost  ) will start the update process.
The right position of the card is when the printed side of the card shows away from you and the contacts towards you - looking at the console screen.

After having done that report back and we'll take it from there.

Another option, if the sensor turns out to be defective, is getting a replacement for the T/H/rain module from Ecowitt (15 USD - shipping included) - as this is inserted before it comes to the transmission unit, it shouldn't clash with the Ambient firmware. May take a few weeks until you get it though.

Great suggestion! $15 USD  is about $20 and and I believe Ecowitt does not charge shipping..sounds like a deal.
Thanks for the help.

[Rover1822]

If, all the other sensors in the array are working, just not the rain.
Although a bit more expensive, you do have another option, and that is to buy Ambient's WH40E rain gauge. There is an added benefit as you can mount that where it makes more sense for rain collection, and also more than likely, in a location making it easier to clean.

I am still baffled that the GW1000 receives "something", and the WS-2000 console doesn't.
I would really verify that the other sensors in the array are really reporting correctly and on a timely basis,  easiest usually to check is the wind direction as long as you have even the smallest amount of wind, that will change more frequently than all the rest.

[gszlag]

How many times did you push the bucket down?

Also, have you checked the batteries?

Good thought.  Changed batteries.. no difference.
Ambient doesn't provide guidance about manually tipping the bucket but Ecowitt suggests tipping 10 times at 2 second intervals... which I've done.
Interestingly WSview shows no rain today (despite the Weewx chart) ..but it did yesterday.

so for 10 tilts, one would expect ~2.5mm

..just saw the specs... .01 inch resolution. does that mean the spoon holds max .01 in before it tips? The spoon/bucket is either tipped or not. No half tips allowed I can see why it is important to level the array as the water will tip too early if it is leaning forward or too late if leaning backward. Side to side may not be as bad..maybe.

[Rover1822]

How many times did you push the bucket down?

Also, have you checked the batteries?

Good thought.  Changed batteries.. no difference.
Ambient doesn't provide guidance about manually tipping the bucket but Ecowitt suggests tipping 10 times at 2 second intervals... which I've done.
Interestingly WSview shows no rain today (despite the Weewx chart) ..but it did yesterday.

so for 10 tilts, one would expect ~2.5mm

..just saw the specs... .01 inch resolution. does that mean the spoon holds max .01 in before it tips? The spoon/bucket is either tipped or not. No half tips allowed I can see why it is important to level the array as the water will tip too early if it is leaning forward or too late if leaning backward. Side to side may not be as bad..maybe.

Essentially, yes. But, understand that the bucket tips on weight, not volume, and not rain over area which is your mm or inch that you see on your console . The rain over area , is basically extrapolated from the weight to tilt the bucket, which using the density of water , you can work out a volume, then from the volume and the diameter of the funnel you can work out the rain over area (inches, mm)

[Rover1822]

I would also like you to verify that your are reading the correct array. We have encountered this before where what someone thinks they are reading is actually an old unit on a shelf or a neighbor's .

From the first , gear icon screen, select the more, the device id , and verify that everything looks correct. Also do my test with the wind direction

I know, this is a rare thing, but it has happened, and as these units are gaining in popularity, I forecast it will happen more frequently.

[Rover1822]

If you are really into it, I would also suggest you purchase a software defined radio (SDR) and run RTL_433
This will give you the data directly from the sensors.

I recommend the RTL-SDR as it is fairly cheap, can come as a kit with small antenna (all you will need for this) , the RTL_433 software is free.

https://smile.amazon.com/RTL-SDR-Blog-RTL2832U-Software-Defined/dp/B011HVUEME/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=RTL-SDR&qid=1627318049&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFBNlNEQ1NLTk1KQTkmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0NDQ1ODAzOFE2UDE1S09FSFFEJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2MDY3MDIzUFc2Sk5DM1BJTE1PJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

I know, still $40, but you can have so much "other" fun with it

I will not be held responsible if you get into it and it absorbs your attention.

- Rover

[Gyvate]

two more things:
- is your GW1000 running on firmware 1.6.8 ?
- did you restart weewx after the GW1000 firmware update ?

another option still to consider would be a "hard" reset of the outdoor array (which unfortunately means that you will get no data for two days):
that means: unmount the array, take the batteries off (batteries are only backup, changing them would not lead to anything), keep the array in a dark place (or make sure that solar panel is completely covered by some dark material, e.g. some dark plastic tape) until the super-capacitor is completely de-charged = until it stops transmitting (the LED will no longer blink every 16 seconds). That can take up to two days.

If you manage to cover the solar panel with dark, black tape completely, it might be enough to take the batteries off and let it "die" in its usual location.
Like that the amount of data missing will be considerably reduced.

That state reached, re-insert the batteries. That's like a power-cycle for a computer instead of a reboot.
All hardware will be completely powerless.
And then see if you can get some readings in the GW1000 and the console by pouring some water and create bucket tilts.

If there is still no reading after a cold-start, a "hard" reset, then the rain gauge is definitely defective.

[gszlag]

If, all the other sensors in the array are working, just not the rain.
Although a bit more expensive, you do have another option, and that is to buy Ambient's WH40E rain gauge. There is an added benefit as you can mount that where it makes more sense for rain collection, and also more than likely, in a location making it easier to clean.

I am still baffled that the GW1000 receives "something", and the WS-2000 console doesn't.
I would really verify that the other sensors in the array are really reporting correctly and on a timely basis,  easiest usually to check is the wind direction as long as you have even the smallest amount of wind, that will change more frequently than all the rest.

We had the same thought. Ambient's duty of $30 CAD plus $74 shipping plus $82 for the WH40E makes it a pricey replacement. Not worth it for a 2.5 year old machine. The Ecowitt WH40 is far cheaper but would not work with the Ws-2000 console.

I can confirm all the other sensors are working. You can see them live at weather.glenns.ca.

More testing with water and nothing is registering anywhere.

[Rover1822]

Part of my fear here, is with the replaced components, don't actually take care of the issue, might be mechanical, might be electronic.

You have presented a true puzzler, with weird variables.

[gszlag]

two more things:
- is your GW1000 running on firmware 1.6.8 ?
- did you restart weewx after the GW1000 firmware update ?

>> yes, did those too right after the WS-2000 firmware update.

another option still to consider would be a "hard" reset of the outdoor array (which unfortunately means that you will get no data for two days):
that means: unmount the array, take the batteries off (batteries are only backup, changing them would not lead to anything), keep the array in a dark place (or make sure that solar panel is completely covered by some dark material, e.g. some dark plastic tape) until the super-capacitor is completely de-charged = until it stops transmitting (the LED will no longer blink every 16 seconds). That can take up to two days.

If you manage to cover the solar panel with dark, black tape completely, it might be enough to take the batteries off and let it "die" in its usual location.
Like that the amount of data missing will be considerably reduced.

That state reached, re-insert the batteries. That's like a power-cycle for a computer instead of a reboot.
All hardware will be completely powerless.
And then see if you can get some readings in the GW1000 and the console by pouring some water and create bucket tilts.

If there is still no reading after a cold-start, a "hard" reset, then the rain gauge is definitely defective.

.>> .that would definitely qualify as a last resort.. sort of like choosing whether you wish to be hung or shot:)

As a last experiment, I'll try waving a magnet around the PCB and see if I can activate the reed switch.

[gszlag]

Part of my fear here, is with the replaced components, don't actually take care of the issue, might be mechanical, might be electronic.

You have presented a true puzzler, with weird variables.

I agree - a puzzle wrapped in an enigma. No changes of any sort on my part were made to trigger this malfunction. Rain just stopped working...

I am grasping at straws..Iam using the ATMOCOM device and wanted to disconnect it temporarily to update the WiFi firmware. AWnet can't see the console because the console is connected to the ATMOCOM device. In WiFi settings in the console, I can see my modem SSID but there is no way to drop the ATMOCOM connection and connect to my home modem. Can the Ambient firmware handle switching between multiple access points? I would of thought so - at least 2 years ago when I set up the ATMOCOM - I thought you could.

[Rover1822]

I can say that the consoles are pretty poor on mutliple APs, be it mesh , hardwired whatever. Saying that, it is also extremely hard to troubleshoot someone else's network remotely.

BUT... Your issue is not network or WIFI related... It appears to be sensor to console, which has nothing to do with network

[gszlag]

I can say that the consoles are pretty poor on mutliple APs, be it mesh , hardwired whatever. Saying that, it is also extremely hard to troubleshoot someone else's network remotely.

BUT... Your issue is not network or WIFI related... It appears to be sensor to console, which has nothing to do with network

Yeah..makes sense ...the ATMOCOM just intercepts the WU rapid fire stream nothing to do with RF.. Thanks for confirming that. Also thanks for bucket tip info. Yes, based on weight of water to offset the weight of the magnet.

[gszlag]

If you are really into it, I would also suggest you purchase a software defined radio (SDR) and run RTL_433
This will give you the data directly from the sensors.

I recommend the RTL-SDR as it is fairly cheap, can come as a kit with small antenna (all you will need for this) , the RTL_433 software is free.

https://smile.amazon.com/RTL-SDR-Blog-RTL2832U-Software-Defined/dp/B011HVUEME/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=RTL-SDR&qid=1627318049&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFBNlNEQ1NLTk1KQTkmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0NDQ1ODAzOFE2UDE1S09FSFFEJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA2MDY3MDIzUFc2Sk5DM1BJTE1PJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

I know, still $40, but you can have so much "other" fun with it

I will not be held responsible if you get into it and it absorbs your attention.

- Rover

WAF factor but I could say it is a diagnostic tool 

[Rover1822]

I can say that the consoles are pretty poor on mutliple APs, be it mesh , hardwired whatever. Saying that, it is also extremely hard to troubleshoot someone else's network remotely.

BUT... Your issue is not network or WIFI related... It appears to be sensor to console, which has nothing to do with network

Yeah..makes sense ...the ATMOCOM just intercepts the WU rapid fire stream nothing to do with RF.. Thanks for confirming that. Also thanks for bucket tip info. Yes, based on weight of water to offset the weight of the magnet.

RF is still  there, as that is how the sensors communicate with the console, I'm differentiating between the RF sensor to console signal , and a WIFI network
Both are RF... but not the same, like apples and oranges.

[gszlag]

I would also like you to verify that your are reading the correct array. We have encountered this before where what someone thinks they are reading is actually an old unit on a shelf or a neighbor's .

From the first , gear icon screen, select the more, the device id , and verify that everything looks correct. Also do my test with the wind direction

I know, this is a rare thing, but it has happened, and as these units are gaining in popularity, I forecast it will happen more frequently.

I live in the country but do have a few neighbours - closest about 200 meters/yards away. Hmm..did not see any device ID in the console. I used WSview to see if it picked up duplicate sensors..none..still a mystery.
 

[gszlag]

I am running out of troubleshooting ideas.

Yesterday was a rain day with at least 40 mm of rain - heavy at times.
The WS-2000 registered 0.0 mm rain. All other readings other than rain are normal.

The next day I took the 3 m pole down with the Osprey array to investigate.
 
I flushed out the debris out with a garden hose.No spiders - just a few dead flies and from what I can see, the tipping bucket is/was operating normally.

I removed the tipping bucket assembly... just to see what was underneath. As it turns out -not much.

Troubleshooting: I  manually depressed the spoon for 2 seconds about 10 times and measured rain once only but only on the GW1000 but not on the WS-2000 console???. I also used water but all I got was zeroes after several tries at different times throughout the day.

Forgot to mention that I rebooted the console a few times and re-registered the outdoor transmitter a few times. No luck.
The LED on the array is blinking normally.

How does a tipping bucket work? A little research indicates the the motion of the bucket (counterbalanced by a magnet?) actuates a reed switch that closes a circuit so that the tips can be counted.

Generally, it is said that reed switches are pretty reliable but you never know. Could be the rain gauge PCB has gone bad and is not registering the tips.

FYI. I live in Canada and originally bought the WS-2000 through amazon.com 2 1/2 years ago..

Although Ambient Weather delivers and sells internationally, spare parts are couriered through UPS so any replacement part that you order outside the U.S. will cost me about $75 CAD which is just about a deal breaker. Free shipping is for U.S. residents only. I was considering ordering the newer WH40E rain gauge from Ambient but it is out-of-stock but then again it would be almost $200 CAD.

The original rain gauge replacement cost would be about $107 CAD delivered.

A conondrum. Considering a brand new Ecowitt HP2551 is $299 CAD I am tempted to transition from Ambient to Ecowitt.

Any other suggestions for a fix or replacement would be welcome!

Thank you gyvate and Rover1822 for all your help and pulling out all the stops - much appreciated!

[Rover1822]

I'm also a Canadian, I just live across the southern border

[davidefa]

The reed of the ws65 ( osprey Y shaped sensor ) is located in a small board inside the rain bucket.
Not that difficult to unsolder in case it is faulty

P.S.
On the ecowitt forum there is a topic about rain bucket maintenance