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Weather Station Hardware => Davis Instruments Weather Stations => Topic started by: jzinckgra on December 13, 2018, 08:46:58 PM

Title: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: jzinckgra on December 13, 2018, 08:46:58 PM
So I post a question on Facebook at Davis Instruments about when/if the VP3 is coming. Their response: "No, cuz Vantage Pro2 is pretty darned great!".
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: blizzardof78 on December 13, 2018, 08:53:06 PM
That's too bad. I was looking forward to seeing how they handled the issue of the dull background with black digits on the Vantage Pro, the Vue, and so on, which is basically impossible to read from 2+ feet away in normal room lighting conditions. (See photo) Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mattk on December 13, 2018, 11:45:04 PM
Try turning it on :)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: blizzardof78 on December 13, 2018, 11:54:01 PM
LOL I have, but since it's running on power supplied by the laptop, it only stays on for a brief time.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mattk on December 14, 2018, 12:49:26 AM
Colour screen then you need 3 laptops to power it :) and then would still only stay on for a brief time.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on December 14, 2018, 03:43:38 AM
But if you can view your data locally on a smartphone or tablet app then do you really need a separate colour console? :evil:
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: DaleReid on December 14, 2018, 09:07:52 AM
Do I need a separate color (or other perhaps readable compared to the piece of.. that the VP2) console is, and the answer is a resounding YES!

I want to be able to see data displayed immediately by glancing up from what I'm doing.  I want to see data as it comes in from the sensors, not through a processor or an additional computer sending things over the internet to a third party.

For the very same reasons I chaff at the idea that my security cameras need to send their images over the internet to a (hackable) site and I have to use internet and wifi to see them, yes.

When the power goes out, the internet goes down and so on, I want a stand alone unit (like Texas Weather, like Peet Brothers, like Rainwise, need I go on?) that I can look to see my current readings.

Because that's what I want.

Davis has a for-crap display.  They have a very nice package of sensors otherwise, and do very well as the elephant in the room as far as market share is concerned.  Their weak spot is their VP2 console, which when you look at the timeline, has had absolutely no attempt at improvement.  I know few who have one that hasn't complained about the readability.  That's the big problem, not functionality or capabilities.

They seem to have confidence that they still sell a lot of them despite a known weakness, and have turned a deaf ear to their customers.

Now, I'm off to have a pleasant Christmas season, knowing I won't have to wish for a VP3, at least for the time being.  On the other had the Osborne effect may worrying them and having them to do fire-sale prices to clear their inventory before they ever do update a long overdue deficiency.

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on December 14, 2018, 09:26:30 AM
I want to be able to see data displayed immediately by glancing up from what I'm doing.  I want to see data as it comes in from the sensors, not through a processor or an additional computer sending things over the internet to a third party.

But I'm not assuming use of the Internet. Say the data went straight from an Envoy to your smartphone or tablet eg via WiFi. Would that be OK?
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: DaleReid on December 14, 2018, 10:28:17 AM
John,
I guess I missed your point initially, but to some degree, it would be better, and of course offer the flexibility of seeing your station, within the range of your wifi, without being near the console.

But, in my shop and workbench and in the family room, I have displays for (at least) the Rainwise Oracles, and I've gotten used to glancing up while doing something and seeing how fast the wind gust just was, if it had started to rain, and if the other factors I'd be interested in were visible, without hauling out the cellphone, opening security, punching the right icon and so on.

Ideally your solutions would be easily available, and gives visibility to data within the range of the LAN.

Ideally my solution would be handsfree, instant, no device needed, available to all  with our without the application on their devices and non-intrusive.  If we're watching a movie and I want to see data, I glance at the console on the wall, illuminated enough to see the data either with LEDs or a decent LCD display (which I don't think there is one defender of Davis's choice, other than their PR department).   My wife bellyaches when I haul out the smartphone during a movie, or show, and to some degree I see her point.  It is a distraction to others in the room.

Different needs for differed situations. 
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on December 14, 2018, 11:25:33 AM

Ideally my solution would be handsfree, instant, no device needed, available to all  with our without the application on their devices and non-intrusive.  If we're watching a movie and I want to see data, I glance at the console on the wall, illuminated enough to see the data either with LEDs or a decent LCD display (which I don't think there is one defender of Davis's choice, other than their PR department).   My wife bellyaches when I haul out the smartphone during a movie, or show, and to some degree I see her point.  It is a distraction to others in the room.

Different needs for differed situations.

^^^You hit the nail on the head and that's the reason easy to read consoles are so important.

Cell phones are OK for remote monitoring but when I'm at home I don't want to grab a phone, turn on a phone, launch a weather app and then put the phone back in it's charger.  The whole family and I want many frequent and quick glances that take less <1/2 second along with the visuals in order to get a  brief snapshot of what's happening outside. (all independent from the internet)

Once Ambient or Acurite come out with a spread spectrum 1000' range robust ISS solution with WiFi color console with touch screen capability, Davis will be dead.

Davis is too stupid or lazy to realize that they better obsolete their own products before a competitor does it to them. (Consumer Electronics Marketing 101)

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: DaleReid on December 14, 2018, 11:53:39 AM
Dave
I don't know Davis's corporate management thought processes on this.

They realize they have an extensive list of options and stations.

They have continuously updated the rain gauge, the solar/uv sensor array, the temperature and humidity sensors and so on.

The glaring neglected or ignored item is the console.  Do they have seven million of them premade and sitting in a warehouse somewhere and have to use them up before working on the next generation?

Just as cell phones have had evolving screen types making them (somewhat) easier to use in bright light, other items too have improved, such as my home thermostat (Honeywell, I think) that is very readable, and is visible from across the room, with numbers large enough to be read, again in relation to the Rainwise and Peet and TWI consoles for readability.

For those that can get by on a cell phone or I've seen folks using their otherwise retired tablets as a display screen, that's fine.  But indeed Davis has ignored repeated discussions here (which they should be monitoring if they want to know what their hard core and other users want) along with repeated mailings and emailings from users, too.

Other than the ubiquitous April Fool's Day announcements, year after year this same thing goes on.

I am pleased to hear of a new third party supplied gizmo that plugs into a VP2 console to make it WiFi capable and very enabled with other functions, again something that wasn't easy to do, and should have been something that Davis had pioneered a long time ago.

I hope, but seriously doubt, that they'll finally release something new before I die or can no longer work on wx station stuff and will make it functional rather than overly cutsie.

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on December 14, 2018, 12:13:31 PM
All Davis needs to do is contract out the design and manufacture of a VP3 integrated console/WiFi hub to a Chinese design house with expertise in color LCD/touch screen and WiFi  technology.  Davis provides the ISS to console radio design and the subcon. does the rest.

A Davis ISS with a Ambient WS-2000 "like" WiFi integrated color console but with touch screen capability would be a home run.

I'm surprised Davis isn't getting pissed that all these 3rd parties are providing innovative connectivity solutions to their antiquated product line and letting the l revenue potential slip thru their fingers.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on December 14, 2018, 12:42:50 PM
A Davis ISS with a Ambient WS-2000 "like" WiFi integrated color console but with touch screen capability would be a home run.

But you're still not answering the question of why it needs to be a display console. If the data can be seen easily and locally on a smartphone or tablet (and without invoking the Internet) then why go to the extra cost of having a display on the receiving device?

Edit: Just to be clear, something like an Amazon Fire 7 tablet (or Fire 8 if you can afford a little more) could make a perfectly good dedicated display that's portable too.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on December 14, 2018, 01:25:03 PM
A Davis ISS with a Ambient WS-2000 "like" WiFi integrated color console but with touch screen capability would be a home run.

But you're still not answering the question of why it needs to be a display console. If the data can be seen easily and locally on a smartphone or tablet (and without invoking the Internet) then why go to the extra cost of having a display on the receiving device?

Edit: Just to be clear, something like an Amazon Fire 7 tablet (or Fire 8 if you can afford a little more) could make a perfectly good dedicated display that's portable too.

Ideally the console is also the portal to the internet via WiFi so it serves a dual role. (ex: WS-2000) No need for separate add ons like weatherbridge IP, ethernet cables, third party bridges/adapters, etc. (Only two components, ISS and WiFi Console).  It's also shared by an entire family vs individual cell phones.

Yes, one could "roll their own" display solution using a generic tablet and create a spreadsheet of data to display. However I think most customers want a plug and play solution vs. a "roll your own" solution.

The other factor is that a dedicated VP3 console could be made to optimize the way weather information is displayed.   The visuals on the WS-2000 display are a great example and very impressive.  I can get a snapshot of environmental conditions without having to read a spreadsheet of data. The icons and visuals can give me a summary more efficiently then an array of just data.

My idea of weather station "Nirvana" would be Davis ISS + Ambient WS-2000 console but with touch screen and at <$500.

To each his own. I'm just a consumer, not a weather pro.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on December 14, 2018, 01:52:12 PM
Yes, one could "roll their own" display solution using a generic tablet and create a spreadsheet of data to display. However I think most customers want a plug and play solution vs. a "roll your own" solution.

Yes, you could roll your own, but there's probably no need for that these days. Many apps these days are browser apps and you can get a full graphic weather dashboard (pre-written and supplied by eg the manufacturer) displayed on any tablet. So you just need your receiver to contain web server functionality, which is not a big deal, and to serve data to the browser app running on your tablet. In many ways it would be indistinguishable from a display console (and probably have a better display into the bargain), other than not having any physical buttons.

[In fact (and I don't know whether or not it will play out this way) there's the potential to have a variety of different weather dashboards each feeding off the same data feed and the user chooses whichever 'console' design most appeals to them.]
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CNYWeather on December 14, 2018, 02:11:58 PM
I'm surprised Davis isn't getting pissed that all these 3rd parties are providing innovative connectivity solutions to their antiquated product line and letting the l revenue potential slip thru their fingers.

My thoughts too. I'm really surprised they have let these all continue for now.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mattk on December 14, 2018, 02:23:31 PM
All Davis needs to do is contract out the design and manufacture of a VP3 integrated console/WiFi hub to a Chinese design house with expertise in color LCD/touch screen and WiFi  technology.  Davis provides the ISS to console radio design and the subcon. does the rest...

They do that then they have lost the plot and succumbed to the lowest common denominator, bad suggestion.

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on December 14, 2018, 02:57:52 PM
All Davis needs to do is contract out the design and manufacture of a VP3 integrated console/WiFi hub to a Chinese design house with expertise in color LCD/touch screen and WiFi  technology.  Davis provides the ISS to console radio design and the subcon. does the rest...

They do that then they have lost the plot and succumbed to the lowest common denominator, bad suggestion.

Aside from the ISS and spread spectrum technology,  Davis is already the lowest common denominator in internet connectivity and display.   

Let's say I want a Davis ISS and the 1000' range to a hub with WiFi the rest of the way to a router. Then let's say and am willing to "roll my own" permanent console with an interface that's more then a spreadsheet of numbers. What do I piece together to implement it? 

Any real world examples?

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: 92merc on December 14, 2018, 03:13:06 PM
I'm wondering if the original response on the FB post was meant to be more tongue in cheek funny comment.  They think the current VP2 does a lot, just buy this one now.  No need to wait.

As far as the WiFi goes, I think the communication between the ISS and console needs to stay where it is.  The current frequency setup does a decent job and it has error correction built in.  If they stick to WiFi protocols, you'll likely get a lot of dropped connections and interference with multiple access points in probable range.

What Davis needs to do is update the console to just have a WiFi receiver chip built in and USB connection.  Sure they'd lose out on some logger sales by integrating it.  But it'll be much simpler in the long run.  And there are cheap color displays out there.  Hell, how long ago did Nintendo start with hand held color consoles?  It doesn't need to be OLED crisp.  Just something low power and reasonable sharpness.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on December 14, 2018, 03:13:44 PM
All Davis needs to do is contract out the design and manufacture of a VP3 integrated console/WiFi hub to a Chinese design house with expertise in color LCD/touch screen and WiFi  technology.  Davis provides the ISS to console radio design and the subcon. does the rest...

They do that then they have lost the plot and succumbed to the lowest common denominator, bad suggestion.

Aside from the ISS and spread spectrum technology,  Davis is already the lowest common denominator in internet connectivity and display.
:lol: Yeah, that's all....I'm mean, after all, it's only a WX station, who needs quality data and reliability. :roll:  And whatta ya know, bottom feeder or not, I hook to the internet just fine, and believe it or not, I can read my display too! \:D/
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mattk on December 14, 2018, 03:52:37 PM
Yes many appear to be overly engrossed in the glitz and glamour of the outside and pay very little attention to what is behind the light show, this is well known as the mudguard principle, shiny on top and sh!t underneath :)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on December 14, 2018, 04:17:37 PM
Yes many appear to be overly engrossed in the glitz and glamour of the outside and pay very little attention to what is behind the light show,
Exactly, which frankly, boggles my mind. I paid for what sits OUT the door, not IN, but guess what, the IN stuff works just as well, and that's after 11+ years and the beat still goes on. =D&gt;
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: ocala on December 14, 2018, 04:51:49 PM
Yes many appear to be overly engrossed in the glitz and glamour of the outside and pay very little attention to what is behind the light show,
Exactly, which frankly, boggles my mind. I paid for what sits OUT the door, not IN, but guess what, the IN stuff works just as well, and that's after 11+ years and the beat still goes on. =D&gt;
Agree. The sensors and the quality of them is why I bought a Davis. The thought of a better display has never entered my mind. But that's just me.
Everyone's different.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on December 14, 2018, 07:21:04 PM
Davis makes a display?  :shock:  My VP2 feeds a wireless Envoy, with no console whatsoever.....
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on December 14, 2018, 07:31:24 PM
Davis makes a display?  :shock:  My VP2 feeds a wireless Envoy, with no console whatsoever.....
My console sits right next to my TV, but since I have WL HDMI-ed from the laptop straight into the TV, that's my "display".
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mchd17 on December 14, 2018, 08:53:47 PM
I have the vp2 console and the vue console....love both of them
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on December 14, 2018, 08:58:56 PM
I have the vp2 console and the vue console....love both of them
Well then, you're obviously just not quite right in the head.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: galfert on December 15, 2018, 06:59:36 AM
So I post a question on Facebook at Davis Instruments about when/if the VP3 is coming. Their response: "No, cuz Vantage Pro2 is pretty darned great!".

That is so smug and arrogant. How very ignorant of Davis to speak like that. Same as they do with the April Fools posting. The VP2 has quite a few flaws. I'm not going to list them as we and Davis knows what they are.

If Davis is not working toward a VP3 then fine. Someone else will replace them. Someone else already has replaced them for quite a few people that value other things more than what Davis has to offer.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: miraculon on December 15, 2018, 08:29:54 AM
VP3 is kind of like this:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/GreatPumpkin.jpg/220px-GreatPumpkin.jpg)

Greg H.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on December 15, 2018, 09:28:05 AM
Davis makes a display?  :shock:  My VP2 feeds a wireless Envoy, with no console whatsoever.....

The Envoy is only wireless to the ISS.  You still need to route ethernet cable from the add on $270 WeatherlinkIP "kludge" to a router or run USB to an always on 24/7 PC.

Then you still need a display of some kind assuming you want an easy way for a household to have a convenient way to glance at the data.

The Davis connectivity infrastructure beyond the ISS is mess of overpriced/obsolete add ons, cables, third party adapters, etc.

As I said earlier, Davis better think of obsoleting it's own products before a competitor does it to them.  Consumer electronics isn't very forgiving to those that rest on the laurels and Davis hasn't done anything of significance this entire century.

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on December 15, 2018, 10:18:33 AM
As I said earlier, Davis better think of obsoleting it's own products before a competitor does it to them.

People have been saying that for the past 10 years and I see no obvious sign of it happening. But maybe wait for the 2019 catalog - who knows what might be in that?  ;)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Joel on December 15, 2018, 10:29:07 AM
But if you can view your data locally on a smartphone or tablet app then do you really need a separate colour console? :evil:

Is there something we should know ?

(please please tell me now  :-P )
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on December 15, 2018, 12:37:27 PM
As I said earlier, Davis better think of obsoleting it's own products before a competitor does it to them.

People have been saying that for the past 10 years and I see no obvious sign of it happening. But maybe wait for the 2019 catalog - who knows what might be in that?  ;)

Yes, but Acurite and Ambient are getting closer by the minute.  There's far less separation with Davis then there was 10 years ago when the competitor's products were more like "toys". I'm sure both of them would love a chunk of the pro-sumer (approx. $500) weather station market. If Acurite can execute on Atlas Elite, it could be a direct threat to Davis.  And who knows what's on Ambient's drawing board.

If I were Davis, I'd be starting to get nervous. Not only from Acurite and Ambient but also the numerous third party "add ons" getting a piece of the $ action that would normally be Davis's.



 
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Ken7 on December 15, 2018, 02:29:25 PM
It appears that Acurite is claiming much improved accuracy. I have to say the display is gorgeous.

https://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-01007M-Touchscreen-Monitoring-Lightning/dp/B074XKB239/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1544901903&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=atlas+weather+station&psc=1
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on December 15, 2018, 05:17:05 PM
The Envoy is only wireless to the ISS.  You still need to route ethernet cable from the add on $270 WeatherlinkIP "kludge" to a router or run USB to an always on 24/7 PC.

...or a $35 Raspberry Pi running weewx, from which the sky is literally the limit for how to send/view/archive the data:

(https://images.hvtraffic.com/images/2018/03/31/20180331202328-2b285cf0.jpg)

I have a color touchscreen mounted to the wall above my Acu-Rite console that cost me $49.  Let's see Davis hit that price point!  I have been tempted to write an Apple TV app to make my wall-mounted 46" TV into the mother-of-all weather station consoles one of these days.

Where everyone is going wrong is when they consider Davis a consumer electronics company.  They are an INSTRUMENT company, marketing primarily to government, industrial, academic, and agricultural buyers with deep pockets.  Look at their complete product catalog.  These customers want data quality, not color displays to get locked into a weatherproof box in the middle of an apple orchard or toxic waste dump.  Consumer electronics is a low-margin, low price market, and they are smarter than to try and compete in that cut-throat sandbox.....
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on December 15, 2018, 05:22:02 PM
The Envoy is only wireless to the ISS.  You still need to route ethernet cable from the add on $270 WeatherlinkIP "kludge" to a router or run USB to an always on 24/7 PC.


Where everyone is going wrong is when they consider Davis a consumer electronics company.  They are an INSTRUMENT company, marketing primarily to government, industrial, academic, and agricultural buyers with deep pockets.  Look at their complete product catalog.  These customers want data quality, not color displays to get locked into a weatherproof box in the middle of an apple orchard or toxic waste dump. Consumer electronics is a low-margin, low price market, and they are smarter than to try and compete in that cut-throat sandbox.....
=D&gt; Someone who finally gets it!
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: WiFiLogger on December 15, 2018, 05:50:08 PM
Stop lament here. I think in a few month Davis will show up with something.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: thomas on December 15, 2018, 05:53:06 PM
You can use one of these 24/7 and hdmi a picture to a wall monitor.  I have had this setup working for 2 years.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D9YX3W6/ref=psdc_13896591011_t1_B06W2LWQKC
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on December 15, 2018, 05:58:50 PM
I think in a few month Davis will show up with something.
:-s You can't drop that PWS bomb here without backing it up! Is this pure conjecture or are you privy? Cat's outta the bag...spill the beans...cough it up...cut it loose...let'er rip...
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: WiFiLogger on December 15, 2018, 06:08:01 PM
I think in a few month Davis will show up with something.
:-s You can't drop that PWS bomb here without backing it up! Is this pure conjecture or are you privy? Cat's outta the bag...spill the beans...cough it up...cut it loose...let'er rip...
I have about 20 pcs of WL IP. After migration to WL.COM 2.0. I should pay for view data on website from those logger.
My question is. Are you prepared to pay for device which will needed subscription like WL IP to obtain data from it?
I don't have problem with it. I like WL.COM 2.0.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on December 15, 2018, 06:09:52 PM
 :-(
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: WiFiLogger on December 15, 2018, 06:13:27 PM
You can use one of these 24/7 and hdmi a picture to a wall monitor.  I have had this setup working for 2 years.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D9YX3W6/ref=psdc_13896591011_t1_B06W2LWQKC

I have used some sort of devices like this: T5740 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=T5740&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=HP+terminal+hdmi&LH_TitleDesc=0)
Some comes with Windows XP, or XP Embedded. Works perfectly with WeatherLink RS232/USB.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on December 15, 2018, 07:44:25 PM
I think in a few month Davis will show up with something.
:-s You can't drop that PWS bomb here without backing it up! Is this pure conjecture or are you privy? Cat's outta the bag...spill the beans...cough it up...cut it loose...let'er rip...

1) The definition of "a few" is arguably accepted as anything less than eight.

2) April Fools Day is 3.5 months away.

3) There have been so many fake "VP3" press release hoaxes on April 1st that you can actually set a calendar by them every year.

QED: Davis or somebody will show up with a repeat of the joke that's older than the VP2's LCD console.....
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Jstx on December 15, 2018, 07:48:04 PM
The Envoy is only wireless to the ISS.  You still need to route ethernet cable from the add on $270 WeatherlinkIP "kludge" to a router or run USB to an always on 24/7 PC.


Where everyone is going wrong is when they consider Davis a consumer electronics company.  They are an INSTRUMENT company, marketing primarily to government, industrial, academic, and agricultural buyers with deep pockets.  Look at their complete product catalog.  These customers want data quality, not color displays to get locked into a weatherproof box in the middle of an apple orchard or toxic waste dump. Consumer electronics is a low-margin, low price market, and they are smarter than to try and compete in that cut-throat sandbox.....
=D&gt; Someone who finally gets it!

Ahem... I have written about most of this Davis stuff before here, several times, among others (*see link and quote at bottom*).

Another major PWS item, in an ideal world, would be the use of standardized interfaces and comms protocols, especially for the links between the sensors and the 'consoles', displays, and/or WiFi and other connections to IP transport, PCs, and WX data using apps or whatever.
I'm thinking/referring to the very effective, long established, existing standards from similar product sectors that would require very little adaptation or modification to act as PWS WX equipment standards industry-wide.
-- The marine industry long ago decided that a universal device protocol was needed. They came up with the NMEA protocol, which allowed at least a minimum interconnection level between almost all marine instruments and controls, from all manufacturers..
The actual wireless links, from sensors to console/IP access, etc., could be done over the very reliable DECT radio (band) interface. It too has been long established, has excellent transmission characteristics and ranges, and has enough device classes, protocols, and equipment parameters already worked out that its' adaptation for PWS's should be a breeze.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Marine_Electronics_Association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Marine_Electronics_Association)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Enhanced_Cordless_Telecommunications (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Enhanced_Cordless_Telecommunications)
Quote
DECT can also be used for purposes other than cordless phones, such as baby monitors and industrial sensors. The ULE Alliance's DECT ULE and its HAN FUN protocol[2] are variants tailored for home security, automation, and the internet of things (IoT).

I have a very flexible, useful, hugely effective home surveillance and alarm system that uses DECT, WiFi, and cellular (and even has a landline-like cordless phone for voice, etc). Digging into it initially I was very impressed with the systems' complexity, and it just works, day after day; with all its' many sensors (up to 50, cameras (up to 4), displays (up to eight), IO outputs, power UPS, etc everything, plus a very nice smartphone app.

*
Most recently on October 24, 2018 , at: https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35350.msg362075#msg362075 (https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35350.msg362075#msg362075)  (Davis Instruments Weather Stations / Re: Any rumors on New Davis Stuff coming soon?? )

Where I wrote this (partial quote):
Quote
I'm not sure that most here realize that WX stations are just a fraction of Davis' overall business. I don't know the Davis corp financials breakouts for Davis (would like to see them if anyone has some), but they cover many other product sectors that probably drive the bottomline much more than prosumer WX does.

http://www.davis.com/ , versus the limited:   https://www.davisinstruments.com/

I too would like a Davis setup, at a reasonable pricepoint, based mostly on their perceived quality and durability (although the many threads here seem to expose some problems, eh?).
But like others, I'm really turned off by their overly proprietary designs (IMO*) and very dated product.

Also by the staggering costs to 'upgrade' a Davis to a 'modern' IP functionality. Having to buy costly extraneous doodads in order to have basic internet connectivity is absurd. The wireless-IP tech today is so cheap that they could build it into every system shipped, including all the non-IP models, just in case (excessive 'model sub-speciation' is a design flaw IMO). Their proprietary cloud scheme/subscription service is a negative too.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mattk on December 15, 2018, 08:00:28 PM
....I have about 20 pcs of WL IP. After migration to WL.COM 2.0. I should pay for view data on website from those logger.
My question is. Are you prepared to pay for device which will needed subscription like WL IP to obtain data from it?
I don't have problem with it. I like WL.COM 2.0.

If the subscription is included with the purchase price then No you should not be paying anything to view or download the data, this is what the included cost of the WLIP did. What has occurred now is Davis has added additional services over and above the intent of the WLIP and if anybody wants these additions then that is something for the individual to decide. I don't have a problem with that, each to their own requirements. But what I do have a problem with as far as WL2.0 is concerned is Davis has effectively removed what was available in WL1.0 and replaced WL1.0 services with stuff that is really rubbish in comparison and no where as useful as WL1.0 and also the reasons for doing this are simply excuses and has nothing to do with the change etc   
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on December 15, 2018, 09:09:19 PM
The Envoy is only wireless to the ISS.  You still need to route ethernet cable from the add on $270 WeatherlinkIP "kludge" to a router or run USB to an always on 24/7 PC.


Where everyone is going wrong is when they consider Davis a consumer electronics company.  They are an INSTRUMENT company, marketing primarily to government, industrial, academic, and agricultural buyers with deep pockets.  Look at their complete product catalog.  These customers want data quality, not color displays to get locked into a weatherproof box in the middle of an apple orchard or toxic waste dump. Consumer electronics is a low-margin, low price market, and they are smarter than to try and compete in that cut-throat sandbox.....
=D&gt; Someone who finally gets it!
Ahem... I have written about most of this Davis stuff before here, several times
Ahem, sorry...it happens. I can't count how many times my statements have come back later in forum life, without me.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Jstx on December 15, 2018, 09:47:36 PM
The Envoy is only wireless to the ISS.  You still need to route ethernet cable from the add on $270 WeatherlinkIP "kludge" to a router or run USB to an always on 24/7 PC.


Where everyone is going wrong is when they consider Davis a consumer electronics company.  They are an INSTRUMENT company, marketing primarily to government, industrial, academic, and agricultural buyers with deep pockets.  Look at their complete product catalog.  These customers want data quality, not color displays to get locked into a weatherproof box in the middle of an apple orchard or toxic waste dump. Consumer electronics is a low-margin, low price market, and they are smarter than to try and compete in that cut-throat sandbox.....
=D&gt; Someone who finally gets it!
Ahem... I have written about most of this Davis stuff before here, several times
Ahem, sorry...it happens. I can't count how many times my statements have come back later in forum life, without me.

No probs, I'm sure this general topic has been around here longer than me, a relative newbie. Besides, I like to poke the Davis embers once in a while  :twisted: . I wouldn't mind getting one, just have a strong resistance for overpaying, IMO, for stuff. Really would like to see some industry standards, but it's probably just too small of a biz sector. The marine WX stuff I see generally adheres to NMEA, but the mfrs still put in 'their' proprietary twist on it. Airmar makes much of it, brand-stamped for the marine vendors, would bet that many generic components are the same as Davis, Acurite, Ambient, etc.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: wxthomson on December 18, 2018, 09:16:26 PM


Then, I must be triple'ly 'dig-batted' (Archie's Edith) in the head:


I'm old enough to remember that great show very well.
It broke many television barriers and was very radical for it's time.

But I think you miss-typed.

Archie used to call Edith a Dingbat.

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Bashy on December 18, 2018, 11:22:36 PM
I would be lost without my console, i left my OS 968 running just so i could keep the 4 consoles in the other rooms, would have been too expensive going the Davis route, the Davis console is sat next to me in the dining room, thats where i am the majority of the time, it serves no other purpose than used for a quick check as the sensors are also linked to the Envoy as well and thats attached to the weather lappy. Ideally i would like to see a touchscreen version, coming from the OS, i found the Davis console difficult to use and it seemed old, dont slate me, its just how i felt about it, i still find it difficult though, the alarms side of it i always have to consult the manual, mostly to remove an alarm....
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: celini on January 02, 2019, 06:12:17 PM
I think in a few month Davis will show up with something.
:-s You can't drop that PWS bomb here without backing it up! Is this pure conjecture or are you privy? Cat's outta the bag...spill the beans...cough it up...cut it loose...let'er rip...

1) The definition of "a few" is arguably accepted as anything less than eight.

2) April Fools Day is 3.5 months away.

3) There have been so many fake "VP3" press release hoaxes on April 1st that you can actually set a calendar by them every year.

QED: Davis or somebody will show up with a repeat of the joke that's older than the VP2's LCD console.....

In all cases and as previous years, Davis Instruments will be at the CES (Consumer Electronic Show) next week (Jan 8-11) in Las Vegas (Booth: LVCC, South Hall 3 - 30278). Maybe (and in fact I hope) Davis will take the opportunity of this event to make special announcements. If somebody plans to be there, please ask Davis their road map regarding Vantage Pro and let us know. Thx in advance.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on January 03, 2019, 04:01:01 AM
I see that the Davis 2019 catalogue has already escaped on to the web, though there's nothing officially posted from Davis as yet. I'd better wait for Davis to make their own detailed announcements, but the main news is no VP3 but one very interesting new member of the VP2 family will be launched by Q2. Oh and I'm afraid it looks like a small general price increase is in the pipeline so for anyone thinking of a Davis purchase imminently it might be in your interests to do so sooner rather than later, while existing stock/prices are available.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: PaulMy on January 03, 2019, 11:00:02 AM
Quote
the Davis 2019 catalogue has already escaped on to the web,
But I can't find it :(

Enjoy,
Paul
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Aardvark on January 04, 2019, 01:50:08 AM
I had wished the VP2 console would have taken a modern twist.  that is a color display, back lighting without the diodes  and lighter.  oh well..
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: PaulMy on January 04, 2019, 10:05:45 AM
Quote
I see that the Davis 2019 catalogue has already escaped on to the web, though there's nothing officially posted from Davis as yet. I'd better wait for Davis to make their own detailed announcements, but the main news is no VP3 but one very interesting new member of the VP2 family
But the 2018 catalogue is a good indicator about what Davis has been and is all about https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/Catalogs_Brochures/Weather_Catalog.pdf
I am glad that I can have all that engineered and practical-experience technology in a home weather station.  If it is the farmer's choice, someone whose lively hood depends on it, or the academic or the daredevil, or the serious hobbyist, then Davis is my choice too! 


Enjoy,
Paul
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: jzinckgra on January 04, 2019, 12:35:37 PM
I see that the Davis 2019 catalogue has already escaped on to the web, though there's nothing officially posted from Davis as yet. I'd better wait for Davis to make their own detailed announcements, but the main news is no VP3 but one very interesting new member of the VP2 family will be launched by Q2. Oh and I'm afraid it looks like a small general price increase is in the pipeline so for anyone thinking of a Davis purchase imminently it might be in your interests to do so sooner rather than later, while existing stock/prices are available.
How do you know this? What is meant by "new member"?
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: mcrossley on January 04, 2019, 02:37:37 PM
How do you know this? What is meant by "new member"?
John is a Davis distributor so I guess he has seen the new catalogue already but will be under NDA ;)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: jzinckgra on January 04, 2019, 03:17:08 PM
How do you know this? What is meant by "new member"?
John is a Davis distributor so I guess he has seen the new catalogue already but will be under NDA ;)
got it, thanks. But , now I'm left wondering about this "new VP2 member" and whether I should hold off and potentially buy that or just go ahead now and get a new VP2 ISS.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW2274 on January 04, 2019, 03:28:27 PM
How do you know this? What is meant by "new member"?
John is a Davis distributor so I guess he has seen the new catalogue already but will be under NDA ;)
I'm left wondering about this "new VP2 member"
New console? That is what most everyone here whines about, right?
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: PaulMy on January 04, 2019, 03:34:30 PM
Quote
But , now I'm left wondering about this "new VP2 member" and whether I should hold off and potentially buy that or just go ahead now and get a new VP2 ISS.
No need to wait..., and that will also avoid potential price increase!

Enjoy,
Paul
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: AF6GL on January 06, 2019, 12:23:29 AM
If it were me, I would wait until the announcements at CES next week just in case.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: PaulMy on January 06, 2019, 09:48:08 AM
No need to wait!

Enjoy now,
Paul
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: ValentineWeather on January 06, 2019, 11:00:45 AM
I don't follow half of what was just said. Is there something new coming? Post a link if so, all I see is the 2018 catalog.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: PaulMy on January 06, 2019, 11:17:48 AM
Quote
Is there something new coming?
Yes something but don't get too excited...  in the 2019 catalogue :twisted:

Quote
Post a link if so,
:|

Enjoy,
Paul
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: ValentineWeather on January 06, 2019, 11:36:57 AM
Over my head, all I see is 2018 catalog.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: 92merc on January 06, 2019, 12:15:22 PM
I think that's the joke.  It's on all of us.  2019 catalog looks just like the 2018.  In other words, nothing new...
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: ValentineWeather on January 06, 2019, 12:38:15 PM
I think that's the joke.  It's on all of us.  2019 catalog looks just like the 2018.  In other words, nothing new...

Jokes on me, I guess.  :oops: Nothing was making sense.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on January 06, 2019, 12:41:46 PM
I think that's the joke.  It's on all of us.  2019 catalog looks just like the 2018.  In other words, nothing new...

My post #50 in this thread is accurate. I'm not in a position to post the link myself - the 2019 catalogue is definitely out there on the web (though not easy to find) but is not yet live on the Davis site. As someone suggested, maybe they're waiting for CES this coming week, though that's just one possibility - it often takes several weeks for the new year's catalogue to be circulated publicly.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on January 06, 2019, 02:05:36 PM
I think that's the joke.  It's on all of us.  2019 catalog looks just like the 2018.  In other words, nothing new...

Funny, the .PDF catalog that Google showed me on Davis' own web site was from 2016.....  #-o
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: SnowHiker on January 06, 2019, 02:45:53 PM
I think that's the joke.  It's on all of us.  2019 catalog looks just like the 2018.  In other words, nothing new...
So where did you see the 2019 catalog?
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Old Tele man on January 06, 2019, 02:48:56 PM
Found it!

Here's the 2019 Davis 'Global' Catalogue:  http://www.meteoshop.gr/datafiles/file/PR57_2019_Catalog_Global_NoPricing.pdf (http://www.meteoshop.gr/datafiles/file/PR57_2019_Catalog_Global_NoPricing.pdf)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Joel on January 06, 2019, 02:56:03 PM
Found it!

Here's the 2019 Davis Catalogue:  http://www.meteoshop.gr/datafiles/file/PR57_2019_Catalog_Global_NoPricing.pdf (http://www.meteoshop.gr/datafiles/file/PR57_2019_Catalog_Global_NoPricing.pdf)

Thanks !
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: ValentineWeather on January 06, 2019, 03:01:52 PM
Yes, thanks for the link.

Here are the new 2019 products.
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on January 06, 2019, 03:08:57 PM
The only significant new product is the 6100 WLL, but note that this is not due to ship until eg Spring. (and you may not have spotted but WeatherlinkIP is effectively being discontinued & replaced by WLL)

WL Cloud is just wl.com 2.0 AFAIK. And the IPM software is more a software move from a local WL add-on to bundling this same functionality into the Mobilize app.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on January 06, 2019, 03:11:40 PM
So it looks like Davis has finally embraced WiFi and are trying to respond to the revenue loss to all the third party wireless connectivity solutions.

So I guess you could use a Davis ISS + Weatherlink Live and "roll your own" console using a cell phone or tablet + web data. 

Any guess as to price for a VV ISS + WLL hub. (w/o console)?
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on January 06, 2019, 03:23:42 PM
WL's third-party upload frequency to WU, CWOP, etc:

Basic (free) 15 minutes
Pro (paid) 5 minutes
Pro Plus (don't ask!) Up to 1 minute

Thanks, but no thanks.

For those hoping for a new console, note the graphical product timeline where they brag about the current eyesore as "iconic" as if it is still desirable in 2019.....  :roll:
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Old Tele man on January 06, 2019, 03:33:38 PM
There's an embedded 'marketing' concept that EVERYONE owns and uses a cell phone...which is 100% wrong (DAVIS, are you listening?).

Yes, they are the 'future,' but right 'now' they're NOT up to future expectations nor utilizations.

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on January 06, 2019, 03:51:51 PM
Any guess as to price for a VV ISS + WLL hub. (w/o console)?

US list for 6100 (WLL) is showing as $250, when it ships.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on January 06, 2019, 04:22:59 PM
Any guess as to price for a VV ISS + WLL hub. (w/o console)?

US list for 6100 (WLL) is showing as $250, when it ships.

Thanks.  That will make the combined price of VV ISS and WLL at $480 List. Maybe closer to $400 street price.

Quote
There's an embedded 'marketing' concept that EVERYONE owns and uses a cell phone...which is 100% wrong (DAVIS, are you listening?).

Yes, they are the 'future,' but right 'now' they're NOT up to future expectations nor utilizations.

Cell phones are almost ubiquitous.  What everyone seems to miss is that they are not well suited as always on/permanent replacements for consoles.  I want something that's permanently installed and always on where I can get a glimpse at the display in <<1 sec and do this very frequently when at home or in the office. 

I don't want the household members to have to go get a phone, turn it on, launch an app, view a website of data and then have it go into standby after a few moments. The cell phone is best used for remote monitoring vs. continuous household use.

Maybe something like an Amazon Fire Tablet could take the place of a console but I'm not sure if they can be configured as always on/always connected. (ie override standby or sleep modes). I don't want to have to do anything to view weather data but turn my head and look.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mattk on January 06, 2019, 04:38:04 PM
Appears to be going down the road of being increasingly closed shop and a forcing towards the subscription model based on restrictive cloud backward technology especially if WLIP is being discontinued.   
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: mcrossley on January 06, 2019, 04:46:19 PM
We need to see if the WLL has a local interface as well as upload capabilities. No mention of it in the catalogue, but if they are phasing out the WLIP...
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on January 06, 2019, 04:51:18 PM
A local API for WLL is apparently in development. It would be logical for this to have a WLIP-emulation mode (ie LOOP/LOOP2/HiLow/Archive over TCP/IP), but no information yet as to whether this might happen. But remember that WLL effectively also replaces an Envoy8X in terms of functionality so the API would potentially need to be more comprehensive. The same JSON API as wl.com 2.0 would be one obvious candidate, but who knows at this stage?
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: CW7491 on January 06, 2019, 10:47:13 PM
Looks like they’ve modified their temp/hum sensor on page 33 ... might we be hopeful they’ve fixed some of those issues?
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Bushman on January 06, 2019, 11:34:50 PM
As long as the sensors remain large brick-like objects, WLL won't save them.  All they have started to do is replace 3rd party HW devices that work WAY better than anything they dreamed up.  Seriously   - go look at Acurite, TP-Link, etc. and see what a sensor could look like.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on January 07, 2019, 03:25:39 AM
Looks like they’ve modified their temp/hum sensor on page 33 ...

No, 6834 is (AFAIK) effectively just a standard T/H minus the radiation shield. I think the idea is that now that WLL has Envoy8X functionality it's more practical to have multiple T or T/H sensors, but each with their own transmitter, deployed at various indoor locations. If you look at p31 then you'll see that there is also a 6331 AC-mains powered version of the 6332 Transmitter minus the solar door, also intended for indoor use.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: kobuki on January 07, 2019, 08:33:12 AM
This new WLL looks promising. It's as if Davis has finally started showing signs they realize what year it is. It appears they're going to provide some open (and possibly standards-based) access to received weather conditions on the LAN which opens up a lot of possibilities from the get go. A good move. Indeed it is if the device will have the ability to receive all 8 possible stations like the Envoy 8x. The reception restrictions are quite baffling with their other console type devices.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: galfert on January 07, 2019, 11:19:44 AM
So Davis is still going to be selling their problematic Legacy SHT31 in 2019 and no new console? ...No thanks.
WLL offers no solution to current better 3rd party options. Davis needs to focus on upgrading their temperature/humidity sensor and on a decent console.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: openvista on January 07, 2019, 11:50:32 AM
I'm noticing that the 24-hr FARS fan & shield hardware is listed as new. Davis now claims 2.5 m/s airflow during the day. That's over twice as much as before. I'm seeing the same batteries, though, and no new board to draw power differently. Solar panel looks the same. Hmmm.... The "new" fan appears to be the same flimsy thing that failed too often causing many of us to seek alternate solutions. I'm skeptical of their claim it only needs to be replaced every two years. If it were rated IP55 (sealed properly for outdoor use), why not put that in your marketing materials?

[EDIT: I'm referencing page 35 of the above linked PDF]
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: wase4711 on January 07, 2019, 12:15:54 PM
There's an embedded 'marketing' concept that EVERYONE owns and uses a cell phone...which is 100% wrong (DAVIS, are you listening?).

Yes, they are the 'future,' but right 'now' they're NOT up to future expectations nor utilizations.

statistics support davis's "marketing" concept..

http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: ValentineWeather on January 07, 2019, 12:58:41 PM
I'm noticing that the 24-hr FARS fan & shield hardware is listed as new. Davis now claims 2.5 m/s airflow during the day. That's over twice as much as before. I'm seeing the same batteries, though, and no new board to draw power differently. Solar panel looks the same. Hmmm.... The "new" fan appears to be the same flimsy thing that failed too often causing many of us to seek alternate solutions. I'm skeptical of their claim it only needs to be replaced every two years. If it were rated IP55 (sealed properly for outdoor use), why not put that in your marketing materials?


Something changed for sure.  I can see daytime going up by just tweaking voltage but don't see how they can raise nighttime and still have batteries last through night so this seems a little suspect unless batteries are super good. Still only using 2 batteries.
 2006 revision: https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/manuals/VP2_Fan_Aspirated_ISS_Rev_C.pdf
 


2006:  190 ft./min. (.96 m/s) (solar-powered, full
sun), 80 feet/min. (0.4 m/s) (battery only)


2019:
Solar: 500 feet per minute (2,5 m/s).
Night: 280 feet per minute (1,4 m/s).
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: jzinckgra on January 07, 2019, 01:08:39 PM
Well with this new info, my mind is made up. Just going to get a new ISS and maybe hope for something in 2020.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Old Tele man on January 07, 2019, 03:31:17 PM
There's an embedded 'marketing' concept that EVERYONE owns and uses a cell phone...which is 100% wrong (DAVIS, are you listening?).

Yes, they are the 'future,' but right 'now' they're NOT up to future expectations nor utilizations.

statistics support davis's "marketing" concept..

http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/

Interesting read, "Thanks," for posting. I'm obviously in the minorities (age/education, etc.)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: wase4711 on January 07, 2019, 03:55:18 PM
well, I am old too, so dont feel bad!
its annoying how people use cell phones as a substitute for human contact, but thats a topic for a different thread..

My only point was that, unfortunately, the vast majority of people, both  young and old, have a cell phone planted in there hands 24-7, so companies assume they can just count on an "App" to be the only way you can interface with them.."Apps" have replace logical/critical thinking in our society now a days, sadly..
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Old Tele man on January 07, 2019, 04:00:42 PM
well, I am old too, so dont feel bad!
its annoying how people use cell phones as a substitute for human contact, but thats a topic for a different thread..

My only point was that, unfortunately, the vast majority of people, both  young and old, have a cell phone planted in there hands 24-7, so companies assume they can just count on an "App" to be the only way you can interface with them.."Apps" have replace logical/critical thinking in our society now a days, sadly..

I joke with the grandkids about "talking" to my sliderule as being the first smart phone...with a string between two slide rules (wink,wink).

And, I still use a rotary (not push-button) dial-up "landline" copper-technology "telephone."
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mattk on January 07, 2019, 04:17:59 PM
Well I still use a real phone, these are the versions before the so called "smart" phone, when real phones did what phones were supposed to do, make phone calls, beyond the city limits, out in the bush, able to be connected to an external antenna which is a very rare option these days, when updating a phone was based on wear n' tear not doing the yearly $2000 update, waiting at midnight to be first in line  'cause there is a new model, in a different colour, now released yearly.

Once phones were built for purpose, now they are built for a 12 month cycle, and now weather electronics may be going that way?     
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: ValentineWeather on January 07, 2019, 04:45:18 PM
No doubt they want you to purchase a new smartphone on regular bases. They screwed my camera up on my Samsung I think with updates. It use to take wonderful pictures now it goes out of focus all the time, but I refuse to upgrade, 4+ years now.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Jstx on January 07, 2019, 05:25:19 PM
Quote
There's an embedded 'marketing' concept that EVERYONE owns and uses a cell phone...which is 100% wrong (DAVIS, are you listening?).

Yes, they are the 'future,' but right 'now' they're NOT up to future expectations nor utilizations.

Cell phones are almost ubiquitous.  What everyone seems to miss is that they are not well suited as always on/permanent replacements for consoles.  I want something that's permanently installed and always on where I can get a glimpse at the display in <<1 sec and do this very frequently when at home or in the office. 

I don't want the household members to have to go get a phone, turn it on, launch an app, view a website of data and then have it go into standby after a few moments. The cell phone is best used for remote monitoring vs. continuous household use.

Maybe something like an Amazon Fire Tablet could take the place of a console but I'm not sure if they can be configured as always on/always connected. (ie override standby or sleep modes). I don't want to have to do anything to view weather data but turn my head and look.
[/quote]

I've been using recycled Android smartphones and generic tablets as 'display consoles' for years. Linked via a home WiFi LAN network, and powered 24/7 with an ubiquitous USB 5V (smartphone) charging wall wart (or the tablets' own charger), I use them as monitoring screens exactly as you desire; but for my home surveillance system.
And yes, you can suppress those "sleep/standby" features, and
have the screen active 24/7. I have some that have been on for years (with only  few reboots).
My old 'recycled' Samsungs have very good resolution screens which display video very well. You can also carry them around a bit, although most of the time mine are placed in easy to view locations: one smartphone on my desk, a large screen tablet nearby, others elsewhere.

So these devices could certainly be put to use as a very cheap, but visually competent, WX display 'consoles. They are also useful for other purposes, they are after all, very competent little computers on their own, still capable of doing many useful things without a SIM card for mobile telephony use.

All that's needed is a software app/package to handle the sensor WX data output  from the existing WX system, whether it is a Davis, Acurite, Ambient or whatever and put it on your LAN.
Something like the logger-display combination apps that feed my La Crosse WX system: the Heavyweather program to log and display on my PC, and the WUHU program which takes the incoming wireless data stream from the console and feeds both HW and many TCP/IP internet sites such as WU, CWOP, etc.

PS: Those smartphones and tablets have made it possible to "commodify" even WX systems.
All that is needed is somebody to package a decent, accurate sensor and software app suite (preferably 'best in class') with the capability to feed external TCP/IP streams (CWOP-WU-etc) as desired, and wifi locally to almost any generic tablet or smartphone used as 'consoles' (with great visual resolutions) and they will rule the market.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mchd17 on January 07, 2019, 05:35:04 PM
Been using an old smartphone as webcam for months now. It's in the window shooting outside. 2 suction cup hooks with rubber bands. Works great as always on and plugged in. Works great with iSpy. IP camera app has a fade, so then screen goes black. It's funny when a severe alert comes through, its vibrates, lol. So I don't see a problem using an old smartphone as always on. Make use of those dust collectors.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on January 07, 2019, 06:31:16 PM
Maybe something like an Amazon Fire Tablet could take the place of a console but I'm not sure if they can be configured as always on/always connected. (ie override standby or sleep modes). I don't want to have to do anything to view weather data but turn my head and look.

My 5th gen $49 Amazon Fire Tablet 7" has been running 24/7 for two years now as a weather console, mounted to the wall above my Acu-Rite console:

(https://images.hvtraffic.com/images/2019/01/07/20190107231813-c6cc5c92.png)

I have the brightness turned down pretty low to avoid burn-in, and am running a free app from the Google Play store that keeps the screen alive and won't let it go to sleep.  The app on the screen above is the WeatherFlow weather station's Android app, but I do have a web page opened in the background to my weewx server to see the Davis station's information from the Envoy.  I don't own a Davis console, and can guarantee that they can't manufacturer a color touchscreen console for $49 at their expected market quantities.

WeatherFlow does not make/sell a console for their stations, and it honestly doesn't bother me one bit because I have found that their app on a wall-mounted tablet is my go-to console even with the Acu-Rite console hanging right under it.....
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on January 07, 2019, 06:53:03 PM
^^Thank you.  A picture's worth 1000 words!! 

So you use a tablet and a special app that forces an always on state.  But how do you get Davis, Ambient or Acurite data posted over to weatherflow's website?  It seems that most of them only offer to post to WU, their own dashboard and maybe one additional site. (none of which make very good tablet/phone display formats without a bunch of manual scrolling from parameter to parameter) 

I would love to implement a WS-2000 "like" console display format on a generic tablet. 
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: SnowHiker on January 07, 2019, 07:19:49 PM


statistics support davis's "marketing" concept..

http://www.pewinternet.org/fact-sheet/mobile/

I didn't see their methodology.  Maybe their survey was sent to people with some kind of a survey app on their smart phone?  That could skew the results a little.  :-)

Quote
Mobile data collection or mobile surveys is an increasingly popular method of data collection. Over 50% of surveys today are opened on mobile devices.[5] The survey, form, app or collection tool is on a mobile device such as a smart phone or a tablet. These devices offer innovative ways to gather data, and eliminate the laborious "data entry" (of paper form data into a computer), which delays data analysis and understanding. By eliminating paper, mobile data collection can also dramatically reduce costs: one World Bank study in Guatemala found a 71% decrease in cost while using mobile data collection, compared to the previous paper-based approach.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_data_collection

I'm also in the Luddite minority.  I suspect that also goes along with me being happy with the antiquated console from the neolithic era.  :grin:

Well, maybe not so much a Luddite as just not needing the latest and greatest.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on January 07, 2019, 08:05:43 PM
So you use a tablet and a special app that forces an always on state.  But how do you get Davis, Ambient or Acurite data posted over to weatherflow's website?

It is running WeatherFlow's own app, displaying the data from my three WeatherFlow stations around the homestead.  There is no way to upload data from station hardware other than their own.

I also have the Acu-Rite and Davis VP2, both having their data captured by $35 Raspberry Pi for archiving...with the Davis data also being sent all over creation by weewx.  (One can never have enough weather stations, and they multiply like rabbits in my yard!)  The Pi can run a web server locally with the SteelSeries gauges or whatever to view "live" data from weewx as the VP2 sends it, which you can leave open on the tablet's web browser.  You can also run the weather34 template on the Pi locally, but you may want to buy a larger tablet for that because it uses a lot of screen real estate creating what is arguably the nicest web-based console alternative.

My point is that a weather app on a cheap tablet is now my preferred wall console, and I don't miss a real console at all.....
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: kobuki on January 08, 2019, 05:51:30 AM
@Jstx (https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35680.msg367460#msg367460): what smartphone/tablet models and what software are you using on your devices? Aren't you afraid of LCD burn-in? Has it ever happened to your devices?

OTOH, Davis should respect all of his users needs, however they're a business and when 95% of the buying populace has a device in their pocket to take out and look at its screen in every 10 minutes it's understandable they want to spend less on the rest of the user base. I personally have no need for the "iconic" old console, while I do understand its benefits.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: miraculon on January 08, 2019, 09:05:07 AM
I wonder if WLL will support smart TVs or Roku. If there was a way to view it on my TV, especially the streaming, it might be of interest to me.

I already have a Raspberry Pi downloading static weather data images and displaying a slide show of them.

Greg H.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on January 08, 2019, 09:55:24 AM

It is running WeatherFlow's own app, displaying the data from my three WeatherFlow stations around the homestead.  There is no way to upload data from station hardware other than their own.
I also have the Acu-Rite and Davis VP2, both having their data captured by $35 Raspberry Pi for archiving...with the Davis data also being sent all over creation by weewx.  (One can never have enough weather stations, and they multiply like rabbits in my yard!)  The Pi can run a web server locally with the SteelSeries gauges or whatever to view "live" data from weewx as the VP2 sends it, which you can leave open on the tablet's web browser.  You can also run the weather34 template on the Pi locally, but you may want to buy a larger tablet for that because it uses a lot of screen real estate creating what is arguably the nicest web-based console alternative.

My point is that a weather app on a cheap tablet is now my preferred wall console, and I don't miss a real console at all.....

So how does a Pi extract data direct from an Acurite, Ambient or Davis sensor?  In the case of my WS-2000, it's not obvious how I would route the data feed into a Pi.  Is there a link somewhere as to how all this can be "easily" done?

It takes 7" of screen area for Ambient to display their station data and it's still a little small, so a 10" tablet might be optimal. (cell phone displays are best for remote monitoring but too small to take the place of consoles).

 
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on January 08, 2019, 10:24:47 AM
So how does a Pi extract data direct from an Acurite, Ambient or Davis sensor?  In the case of my WS-2000, it's not obvious how I would route the data feed into a Pi.  Is there a link somewhere as to how all this can be "easily" done?

Weewx has support for all.  I am sniffing the radio signals from the Acu-Rite off the air using an SDR dongle on one Pi.  A second Pi has the Davis Envoy hooked up by USB logger, and is running a second weewx instance capturing WeatherFlow data from the UDP network broadcast packets they send out for all devices on your local network.  (I personally wrote/shared the weewx station driver for the WeatherFlow/UDP setup.)

There is a learning curve with weewx/Pi/Linux, but plenty of how-to articles around the web.  Remember that the Raspberry Pi Foundation developed the Pi as a throwaway-priced learning tool for school-age kids in the UK, so there's plenty of simple instruction sites out there to make the little computer do just about anything.....
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Jstx on January 09, 2019, 12:54:36 PM
@Jstx (https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35680.msg367460#msg367460): what smartphone/tablet models and what software are you using on your devices? Aren't you afraid of LCD burn-in? Has it ever happened to your devices?

...

Almost any Android model will work, I'll assume that Apples will too (I avoid Apple stuff, just can't ever justify the price differential for a few extra features and the 'status').
Specifically, at this time I'm using a Samsung III (ex's old phone, waiting to get her Samsung V next when she upgrades, heheh), a couple of obsoleted BLU phones; and for the tablets, a couple of AT&T 9020's (IIRC), and an RCA model (all bought at ~$40-50/each). Their screens are adequate, there are of course much better ones available if one has an old one or wants to spend the extra money.
Sometimes a smartphone I'm using as a display-terminal will develop a battery problem or whatever, just swap it out with one of several old ones in a drawer. After all, these phones are on their second lives, being recycled for a good purpose rather than just junked.
Haven't noticed any 'burn in', wouldn't care anyway.

The software I'm using, as I stated, isn't for a weather app at this time. I'm using an app for a home surveillance system, Panasonic's "Home Network", a now obsolete, but very competent home monitoring, alarm system and app (has both Android and Apple versions).
These screens, and the Panasonic hub unit, run off of an AT&T GSM Homebase router-gateway on an additional mobile line/number/SIM in home. I run a second, remote (in a marina) Panasonic system on my sailboat for monitoring, geotracking, and alarms (one camera is on the electrical panel, so I can look at the boat's power status anytime-- this substitutes for what would otherwise be a very complicated telemetry system).
The app and systems also allow remote, on-the-move, access via personal smartphone too of course.

And, as I'm going to reply to another on this thread, one of these devices could be made to also "cast" its' display to a TV set for a 'big picture' (I think, if it has enough 'radio' to do both wifi and casting?).
I know I can get my PC, running a weather app, to 'cast' a display ('console') to either the TV or one of these devices.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Jstx on January 09, 2019, 01:06:18 PM
I wonder if WLL will support smart TVs or Roku. If there was a way to view it on my TV, especially the streaming, it might be of interest to me.

I already have a Raspberry Pi downloading static weather data images and displaying a slide show of them.

Greg H.

You should be able to use the "cast" function to send the display from one device to another's screen, including a TV. EG: Miracast, Airplay, DLNA, etc. :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Cast#See_also (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Cast#See_also)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: kobuki on January 09, 2019, 01:51:40 PM
@Jstx: thanks for the extensive reply. Yes, I'm also thinking of repurposing an old Android tablet (agree on the Apple part), but there seems to be a lack of presentable user interface (either native app or html web page) that I could put on them for 7x24 display. All of them either suck in one way or another or are plain ugly. One thing I'm a bit worried about is old tablets without updates are using old firmware with lots of WiFi-related security holes...
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: johnd on January 09, 2019, 02:01:51 PM
Would someone who knows more about it like to comment on the effects of having a tablet connected to AC mains 24/7 (which I presume is the idea). Does the tablet battery gradually die? Or maybe it doesn't?

PS Amazon Fire 7 tablet which is potentially (?) adequate in size is GBP50 in the UK, which is not mega-money even if purchased new and presumably cheaper still when on offer. Even has Alexa built in now apparently.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: davefr on January 09, 2019, 02:27:15 PM
So how does a Pi extract data direct from an Acurite, Ambient or Davis sensor?  In the case of my WS-2000, it's not obvious how I would route the data feed into a Pi.  Is there a link somewhere as to how all this can be "easily" done?

Weewx has support for all.  I am sniffing the radio signals from the Acu-Rite off the air using an SDR dongle on one Pi.  A second Pi has the Davis Envoy hooked up by USB logger, and is running a second weewx instance capturing WeatherFlow data from the UDP network broadcast packets they send out for all devices on your local network.  (I personally wrote/shared the weewx station driver for the WeatherFlow/UDP setup.)

There is a learning curve with weewx/Pi/Linux, but plenty of how-to articles around the web.  Remember that the Raspberry Pi Foundation developed the Pi as a throwaway-priced learning tool for school-age kids in the UK, so there's plenty of simple instruction sites out there to make the little computer do just about anything.....

After looking at the weewx website, this looks like a major project requiring an in depth knowledge of Python and Linux programming not to mention configuring a PI to extract weather data.

http://www.weewx.com/docs/usersguide.htm

It would sure be easier if the manufacturers would provides dashboards patterned after the wonderful WS-2000 console that could be scalable to the tablet size of your choice.  (a "roll your own" console from the ground up seems like a formidable task)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Bushman on January 09, 2019, 02:32:11 PM
@John - I've had a tablet connected for years; I've never seen much in the way of battery degradation.

BTW, note that a lot of the older/cheaper tablets don't have a screen saver or shut-off so that might be an issue for some.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: kobuki on January 09, 2019, 02:42:09 PM
After looking at the weewx website, this looks like a major project requiring an in depth knowledge of Python and Linux programming not to mention configuring a PI to extract weather data.

Huh? Not at all. You can just install it on any Pi (preferably Pi3 B+) with Raspbian after downloading the package from their site, install it via dpkg, put some lines in the config for your particular device (presumably a VP2) and you're good to go. The provided basic html interface template is pretty functional, albeit a bit "industrial" looking, but there are a lot of others that you might like and can easily swap it, just have a look at their showcase page. If you want to customize it further, it's absolutely possible without programming knowledge, but if you're versed in Python, you can always dig deeper, but it's just a possibility for advanced usage. If you want to use a 3rd-party extension, it's easy to install without any programming. You do need some basic Linux shell skill, though.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Jstx on January 09, 2019, 02:52:38 PM
@Jstx: thanks for the extensive reply. Yes, I'm also thinking of repurposing an old Android tablet (agree on the Apple part), but there seems to be a lack of presentable user interface (either native app or html web page) that I could put on them for 7x24 display. All of them either suck in one way or another or are plain ugly. One thing I'm a bit worried about is old tablets without updates are using old firmware with lots of WiFi-related security holes...

I wonder about the security issue too, but mine seem to still be getting regular Google/Android updates when I let them. Not sure what the Android update support cutoff dates are, my oldest running ones are on Android 5 or 6, IIRC.
Android updates are very annoying in that I carefully set up the optioning to turn off many 'Google' things, the GPS, etc., and along comes an Android update which resets many back to Google's defaults, grrrr.
As far as WiFi security itself, I live out in the boonies, until recently couldn't hardly ever detect any other WiFi SSIDs around here anyway. So a very minimal chance of a local wireless security breach (if a 'black radio intercept van' were parked out on the lane it would be pretty obvious...).
If you live in a crowded city environment the odds go way up for WiFi intercepts or hacking. There's also a greater chance of anyone having the technicals skills to do it in the city.

Just another day in the modern world...
It was a lot simpler back in the 1950's and '60's, eh? But would we want to go back? Not me, just bought a new top-of-the-line SUV, hot dang that sucker has everything in it, hordes of electronic goodies and stuff (and a sunroof too). Compared to my (simple) first vehicles (a '56 Dodge, '62 Galaxie, '65 MGB, '65 Galaxie SW, etcetc), and all ones since, it's just amazing what's in this modern vehicle (and the ride and handling are superb); I've spent days going through the manuals checking out all the options and goodies-- in hog heaven ;].
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Jstx on January 09, 2019, 03:10:41 PM
Would someone who knows more about it like to comment on the effects of having a tablet connected to AC mains 24/7 (which I presume is the idea). Does the tablet battery gradually die? Or maybe it doesn't?

PS Amazon Fire 7 tablet which is potentially (?) adequate in size is GBP50 in the UK, which is not mega-money even if purchased new and presumably cheaper still when on offer. Even has Alexa built in now apparently.

I've had various tablets and smartphones plugged in to the 'mains' for years in some cases. No apparent problems. I think that they mostly have pretty good 'battery management' software built in to the OS (Android or Apple) which will maintain a safe charge level, then turn off for a while.
Other than the normal deterioration of lithium prismatic batteries not much happens (yes, they do 'wear out').
I try to only buy devices that have user replaceable batteries (none of that Apple carp). If you're using a such a recycled/cheap device and the battery dies, replace it or junk it.
I think that the manufacturers learned long ago that they had to have special safe charging routines for the potentially dangerous lithium batts now in use.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: anderep on January 26, 2019, 06:41:53 PM
They don’t need a new console, just need a app for Alexa.  Alexa show me the weather.

Perhaps that is where they are going.. with the newweather link live..
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Mattk on January 26, 2019, 07:10:03 PM
I think more like,  Alexa go get lost
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: DaleReid on January 27, 2019, 11:25:49 AM
If Alexa was more like the Star Trek "Computer" (and Majel Barrett's voice would bne OK) then I'd be in both feet.

I've dreamed of having a personal assistant that would listen to ME and do what I wanted it to.

Instead, a spy in our houses and lives beyond what all the big companies already are, is what has been delivered up and we swallowed hook line and sinker.

I'd pay for a self contained device and absolutely zero backload to google or amazon or anyone.  But that is far from what they served up, and at prices that tell you they are doing this to harvest our data.  Again.

When computing power on a chip great enough to make this happen internally, and completely controlled by me, happens, I'll get one.  For now it remains in my fantasy of Star Trek's "Computer", and Majel's sweet voice part of the fantasy.

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: pfletch101 on January 28, 2019, 05:10:54 PM
If Alexa was more like the Star Trek "Computer" (and Majel Barrett's voice would bne OK) then I'd be in both feet.

I've dreamed of having a personal assistant that would listen to ME and do what I wanted it to.

Instead, a spy in our houses and lives beyond what all the big companies already are, is what has been delivered up and we swallowed hook line and sinker.

I'd pay for a self contained device and absolutely zero backload to google or amazon or anyone.  But that is far from what they served up, and at prices that tell you they are doing this to harvest our data.  Again.

When computing power on a chip great enough to make this happen internally, and completely controlled by me, happens, I'll get one.  For now it remains in my fantasy of Star Trek's "Computer", and Majel's sweet voice part of the fantasy.
+5!
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: graculus on January 28, 2019, 06:04:57 PM
+10! Very well stated Dale  :-)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: kobuki on January 28, 2019, 06:17:28 PM
When computing power on a chip great enough to make this happen internally, and completely controlled by me, happens, I'll get one.  For now it remains in my fantasy of Star Trek's "Computer", and Majel's sweet voice part of the fantasy.

That's a good catch. Computing power is the key here. Now it's only available concentrated in the cloud. It's gonna be a looong way to be able to bring it to homes as a ubiquitous commodity with all the necessary accumulated knowledge and databases. And even then, there will remain a lot of services that we need to use in the ever growing, nameless mass computing power (the internet cloud). And of course the shared knowledge will always remain up to date only in the cloud. There's no practical way around it.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Bashy on January 28, 2019, 11:34:06 PM
If Alexa was more like the Star Trek "Computer" (and Majel Barrett's voice would bne OK) then I'd be in both feet.

Instead, a spy in our houses and lives beyond what all the big companies already are, is what has been delivered up and we swallowed hook line and sinker.


Ah, that old chestnut, spying on what, i gotta ask? anyhoo, its no more than what that smartphone in your pocket is doing ;) and, if you are referring to what she hears, thats baloney too, she only starts listening to you once the wake up word has been invoked an then its only for a very short time, well under 30 seconds actually under under 10 (around 6 or 8 i believe) :)
Yes, theres been the odd glitch in the matrix but it is a relatively new technology really, bound to be some hiccups

And yes, i do have Alexa, 1 Show 2, 2 Dots, 1 Spot, 1 Echo and the Echo Connect, just waiting on the Echo Auto coming out over here in the UK then it will be in the car too :) Also made a skill for my weather data, IF she is "spying" on me, im not overly confident that whomever is actually "spying" would be interested in my conversations with my dogs, ive got nowt to hide, its not like im up to no good and would need to worry enough about it, and good luck in hearing me having sex, no seriously, good luck......... ;)
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: galfert on January 29, 2019, 02:26:29 AM
You can actually see Alexa sending your conversation up into the cloud if you know how to monitor network traffic. That is that you'll notice that only when the key word is spoken that it wakes up and sends that bit of conversation which you can see as Internet bandwidth consumption. It does not need to send everything into the cloud to detect the key word, in fact it sends nothing until the key word is detected. Does it erroneously sometimes think it heard the key word? Sure it can happen very seldom and it's a mistake. But then you can review every instance and play it back and delete it very easily with the Alexa app on your mobile by just going to the Activity history under the main menu. You can also review the same Activity history with a computer browser by going to https://alexa.amazon.com and going to the same menu item.

Any mention of Alexa spying is unfounded and an uninformed conspiracy propaganda or fake news media hype. I know from first hand experience because I'm an IT professional and I know how to monitor my network traffic. I know exactly when and how much bandwidth every device is using on my network and I can graph it or run reports with the hardware and software tools on my network.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: DaleReid on January 29, 2019, 07:35:55 AM
There is no sense arguing with you guys. I'm not a 'conspiracy theory' kind of guy.  Very skeptical.  Yet at least four years ago apps were available to load onto a multifunction phone to do just that, and show no evidence of even being installed or monitoring in real time.  First thing to do is transmit irregularly, just to thwart the obvious monitoring of upstream traffic.

And I don't even write spy novels.

Same for the Alexa thing.  By design, it seems and probably is innocent enough, listening for the key word and then sending an audio analogue up to be examined by voice recognition and then act.  But allow intrusive software to be added (recall there are known instances of software being on machines, Dells I think, shipped with unwelcome stuff already on the disk) and you start the possibility of being monitored, for whatever reason.

Remember there are things called stingrays that can grab an area's cell service and appear to be a tower, even passing along non-interesting cell phones' traffic so as to not raise suspicions.

I'm sorry you either don't think that these things can happen, or they are going to be rare forever.   The fact is, this can be done.  Now.  It takes a lot of planning, and a good reason to do it (law enforcement or a nefarious foreign government) and fortunately I do not seem to be on the radar of anyone except the IRS at tax time.

I did an online verification of identity for my medical portal access which they told me, after asking, used a company called Nexus-Lexus.  I was startled, with some questions coming from well before the constant connections to the internet were common, and dial ups still 2400 baud.

I asked one of the techies about that and he said that it was sort of scary, which I agree about the depth of the data base that it accesses to get tidbits about me to ask questions about which after  a series of them, the clinic could feel pretty certain that it was me that could (barely) recall the details and figure it was safe enough to grant me access to my account on-line.

Again, I'm not running around with posters or publishing a small underground newspaper on conspiracies like Mel Gibson in the 1997 Conspiracy Theory movie.  I'm too much of a skeptic for that.   But aggregation of data by big business is indeed big business and you only need to look at Amazon for a very unusual item, then in 10 seconds open a newspaper that depends upon traffic and ads, like USA Today, to see the same item in the ad column to be convinced otherwise.

I'm not so sure the newly implemented European Union laws on privacy are such a bad thing, although makes it very hard to make sure you are complying if you have a web site.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Bashy on January 29, 2019, 07:48:30 AM
Just as a fyi, you can see and hear the audio history and delete the lot if you want, not a good thing as I believe it's used for her to learn. On the Alexa fb pages, we get a lot come on and start with the foil hat talk and they get shot down every time. Here's 1 example from my history, as you can see, there is a button to hit to listen to what was recorded...

Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: vreihen on January 29, 2019, 01:03:46 PM
I have an Alexa gizmo in my junk drawer.  Because of the whole "Alexa, order me a doll house" TV fiasco, I changed the wake word to "computer."  Sadly, every Star Trek series uses that as a wake word, and Alexa would start babbling several times during some episode until Riker engaged the self-destruct sequence and Alexa wouldn't shut up until I pulled the plug.

Some people like voice interfaces, and can listen to audio books.  I'm not one of them.  My brain can process written/visual information probably 50 times faster at times, and I don't have the patience for listening at spoken voice speed.

My wife and I both have Apple Watches, and they include Siri as a voice assistant but require pushing a button to wake it.  Through Apple's HomeKit integration, all of our home automation is available through Siri on my wrist.  I can even control the TV with an app on the Watch, and my weather station's data is also available on the Watch.  My $0.02 is that the Watch and while driving are the only two places where voice assistants make any sense.....
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: Bushman on January 29, 2019, 02:33:57 PM
The Alexa dollhouse thing is urban myth BTW.
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: DaleReid on January 29, 2019, 05:55:01 PM
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2019/01/28/apple-facetime-bug-eavesdrop-your-iphone-mac/2707057002/
Title: Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
Post by: wase4711 on February 05, 2019, 04:31:13 PM
another reason to be suspicious of Apple products