Topic: Questions regarding a new Ambient/Ecowitt system

[Bart]

As I stated in a different post I made, I am getting away from InAcuRite. That being said, I do have some different questions, so instead of asking them one-at-a-time in different posts, I'll just keep them here. I have done a ton of reading and research into Ambient/Ecowitt, but I do have a few questions/concerns. I'll address one at a time.

First off...UV readings. Unless I'm totally crazy (which is a distinct possibility!), it seems like the various models (Ambient 2000/2902 and Ecowitt models) seem to have a "ceiling" as far as UV readings. I have looked at so many stations and UV seems to go upwards pretty accurately compared to UV forecasts, and then tends to hit a ceiling of 8 (I've seen a few instances of touching 9 briefly....but for the most part 8 seems to be the magic number). However, if I come across a station that happens to be a 1000 series model of Ambient, I've seen those hit 10-11 pretty consistently. For where I live (Phoenix, AZ), UV should be higher than 8 EASILY (especially when other models hit forecast projections). Any reason why I'm seeing this on a consistent basis? Is there a "fix" if this is an actual issue?

For a lot of the stations that seem to be doing this, the UV does seem to go up hourly right along with hourly UV forecast. But once it hits 8, it just seems to stop and hold there, until later in the afternoon when UV readings start to drop...right along with the UV forecast.

Don't get me wrong. I still plan on getting Ambient/Ecowitt. I'm not "mad" if it's a "that's just the way it is" scenario regarding UV. I can live with it if need be. I'm just wanting to understand.

Once I get the UV stuff addressed, my next question will be regarding an Ecowitt/Ambient hybrid set up.

Thank you, kind folks!

[galfert]

First you should know that Fine Offset / Ecowitt / Ambient stations do not have true UV and also no true solar radiation. What these stations have is a Lux (light) sensor. Then the station applies a very liberal conversion factor to Lux and divides the value by 126.7 to arrive at solar radaition. Why 126.7?....simply because it is a good average number for a great majority of the planet. But depending on your Latitude it will be different. Then there is a built in conversion scale that maps a certain solar radiation to a given UV value.  Again more loose interpretation going on here. What you can do is go into the console and apply a correction offset to better estimate what the conversion factor should be for your location based on more trusted sources. But even after you dial that in, it still isn't a real UV and solar radiation sensor....nothing can truly replace a real sensor. Lux is just a crude way to approximate things and it is a much cheaper type of sensor to produce. So if you are not happy with the UV and solar radiation numbers you are seeing you can just go in and apply the correction gain factor that you wish, knowing that you are only marginally making it better...then it will reach the highs that you expect. There is separate UV and solar radiation gain adjustments possible.

https://help.ambientweather.net/help/why-is-the-lux-to-w-m-2-conversion-factor-126-7/

PS - InAcurite .... LOL ....there is another guy here that calls it AcuWrong.

[Bart]

Thank you Galfert (I've read a boatload of your posts recently regarding Ambient/Ecowitt station stuff)! That makes total sense now. I didn't realize that these didn't have true UV sensors, and rather they base it on lux and "do some math". Got it. No problem there.

If I did decide to make an adjustment, is it possible to do it without a console? I *might* be going console-less (tablet/phone only). Also, if I do make an adjustment using the console, does the adjusted value stay within the console itself only, or will it pass along the adjusted value to various cloud sites (WU, Ambientweather.net, etc)?

[Bart]

Also, I am assuming that the adjustments are made by an incremental value. What are the increments? 1X? 2X? Or can it be more precise, like 1.1X, 1.2X, etc?

[Bart]

Side note (not that it matters...it's just for fun)...I live about 1 mile from the Ambient Weather shipping warehouse. They're on one side of I-10, and I'm just on the other side. I just discovered that about a week ago. I have NUMEROUS times rode my bicycle right past them and never even noticed!

[galfert]

If I did decide to make an adjustment, is it possible to do it without a console? I *might* be going console-less (tablet/phone only). Also, if I do make an adjustment using the console, does the adjusted value stay within the console itself only, or will it pass along the adjusted value to various cloud sites (WU, Ambientweather.net, etc)?

Please don't say without a console. Say without a display. Or say a display-less console. As the Fine Offset stations without a display still use a device that should for all intensive purposes be considered a console just with a virtual display...as the mobile app or browser serves as its display and any adjustments in the app or browser don't really occur nor stay in there, but rather they get relayed back to the console. Besides the guts of the display-less console is still very similar to the guts of the displayed console and they are both managed in some ways the same with the same mobile app.

If you want to have a Fine Offset clone station and manage it only via tablet or your phone then there are a few options. Some of them I feel are a bad option though. There are a few Ambient stations that use a display-less console called the ObserverIP. I feel this device is dated and it is limited in functionality for expansion. Sure it will work just fine but if you try and connect up a Meteobridge (also called WeatherBridge) then you'll have a hard time keeping both up and running as the Meteobridge will tax the ObserverIP too hard to continually get data. The ObserverIP runs okay by itself but even then it is underpowered and if you keep the Live Data browser page open too long it can lock up just as well. Unfortunately as far as Ambient is concerned they don't have anything else without a display that doesn't user the ObserverIP. The next best option is to go to Ecowitt and get the GW1000 based stations. This is a newer device that is very popular, because it is reliable and it is expandable and very capable even by itself. You can get the GW1000 by itself as an expansion to an Ambient station or as a whole kit with sensors if you get the GW1001 or GW1002. You can't get the GW1003 in the US...as Ambient has exclusive rights in the US to the ultrasonic anemometer.

If you make a calibration adjustment to the console then anywhere that console uploads data to will reflect the adjustments that you made. The data will be the same in the console and anywhere the data is sent.

Every adjustment is pretty precise and works differently depending on what you are adjusting. If you adjust the temperature then you are raising it by any set amount that you want. If you adjust the barometric pressure then same thing. You can make adjustments in imperial units or in metric units. If you make adjustments in metric and then switch to imperial the adjustment gets converted to the new units so your adjustments sticks precisely. It is actually advisable to make calibration adjustments in metric because it will be more precise. For example the allowed precision of 0.1 hPa is more precise than the allowed 0.01 inHg. Temperature can be adjusted in increments of 0.1°C or 0.2°F.

Neat on living near Ambient. I wonder if you can save on shipping? But now with Covid-19 probably not the thing to do.

[Bart]

Please don't say without a console. Say without a display..

My bad. Point taken, though.

Funny that you had mentioned the GW1000, etc. Possibly considering an Ecowitt sensor/AW Weatherbridge setup. What I was wanting was the AW WS-5000 (whenever they get back in stock). The main reason being because of being modular. The only other modular (in what I would consider getting) would be Ecowitt (models that you mentioned). BUUUUUUT, the wifey likes the look of ambientweather.net and cannot stand ecowitt.net. So, if I go with an Ecowitt system (with a GW1000), I would need a Weatherbridge. Of course, added bonus would be I would have more options as far as handling the data. The wifey is happy and I get more "toys" to play with.

Here would be my question regarding Ecowitt system with Weatherbridge. Would data still be uploaded at 1 minute intervals to ambientweather.net, just like if I was using solely an AW system?

Also, with this "hybrid" setup...since GW1000 can upload to WU and Weatherbridge can upload to WU, which should handle those duties? Is one faster than the other for uploading to WU? Ambient stuff does rapidfire (so I would assume that Weatherbridge would also). But does the GW1000 do rapid fire?

Aaaaand...does Ecowitt also have the adjustments for UV, solar radiation, etc, like Ambient? I am assuming yes since the hardware is the same (or at least nearly the same). Or is that part of the difference in firmware between AW and Ecowitt (ie...AW can do these adjustments and Ecowitt cannot).

Thanks again, man. I appreciate your help.

[galfert]

Funny that you had mentioned the GW1000, etc. Possibly considering an Ecowitt sensor/AW Weatherbridge setup. What I was wanting was the AW WS-5000 (whenever they get back in stock). The main reason being because of being modular. The only other modular (in what I would consider getting) would be Ecowitt (models that you mentioned). BUUUUUUT, the wifey likes the look of ambientweather.net and cannot stand ecowitt.net. So, if I go with an Ecowitt system (with a GW1000), I would need a Weatherbridge. Of course, added bonus would be I would have more options as far as handling the data. The wifey is happy and I get more "toys" to play with.

Another option...although more expensive...is to get the GW1002 and use that until the Ambient WS80 ultrasonic anemometer part comes in stock (just the anemometer) and then you can switch out the spinning WS68 for the ultrasonic WS80. You can then test both and have both mounted and in the software switch them on and off and compare. Or you can take the other down and keep as a spare or sell it.

Here would be my question regarding Ecowitt system with Weatherbridge. Would data still be uploaded at 1 minute intervals to ambientweather.net, just like if I was using solely an AW system?

Yes the Meteobridge can upload to Ambientweather.net in 1 minute interval. And call it a Meteobridge. The WeatherBridge name is just Ambient lingo for their Meteobridge. But once you get it you'll realize that when you use it it just refers itself as a Meteobridge and never as a WeatherBridge. I only use the WeatherBridge name when I'm telling someone to buy it. From then on it is a Meteobridge.

Also, with this "hybrid" setup...since GW1000 can upload to WU and Weatherbridge can upload to WU, which should handle those duties? Is one faster than the other for uploading to WU? Ambient stuff does rapidfire (so I would assume that Weatherbridge would also). But does the GW1000 do rapid fire?

Yes they both do rapidfire. The data in WU looks almost the same. I prefer the GW1000 upload to WU in how graphs look...it is barely noticeable. The Meteobridge does have the neat option to alternate between two different types of rain rain for WU upload ....I prefer the "alternative" way which is instant rain rate which is the way the GW1000 also uploads rain rate...but if you wanted to see what that looks like you can turn off "alternative" rain rate and then it will upload hourly rain rate which is how Acurite stations upload rain rate. The Meteobridge calls it "alternative" rain rate because technically speaking based on the WU upload API documentation they define rain rate as hourly (as in past 1 hour of rain)...but in practice many weather station software uploads using instantaneous rain rate as does Davis stations. You could have two WU IDs and then the GW1000 uploads to one and the Meteobridge uploads to the other to compare. Do not put both station on the same Latitude/Longitude....move them apart like at least 500 or 1000 feet. So put one on your home and the other at the park across the street or in on some other public space nearby....just don't put it on top of your neighbor's house.

Aaaaand...does Ecowitt also have the adjustments for UV, solar radiation, etc, like Ambient? I am assuming yes since the hardware is the same (or at least nearly the same). Or is that part of the difference in firmware between AW and Ecowitt (ie...AW can do these adjustments and Ecowitt cannot).

Same same. The Ambient differences in firmware deal more with what sensors are compatible and removing upload services like "Customized" server upload and removing MetOffice WOW and substituting Ecowitt.net for Ambientweather.net upload. Otherwise everything looks and works identical. Oh and they call the firmware versions with different numbering.

[Bart]

SWEET! I know what you mean by Weatherbrisge/Meteobridge.

I was actually considering the GW1002 paired with Meteobridge. At this time, I'm not even interested in the sonic anemometer, because having accurate wind readings isn't even really a possibility for me. I live within an HOA and can't have items extend upward beyond our block wall. Mine InAcuRite Atlas is just a little bit higher than what is allowed, so I get at least some readings (better than being completely below the height of the wall). It's not perfect, but some reading is better than none at all. So I would be perfectly happy with the GW1002 (again, paired with Meteobridge. And yep, it's more cost, but that doesn't bother me. I'll be getting more possibilities to play with, so that's always good. I need a hobby.

And one other thing...lightning sensor. If I go the GW1002 route and get Ecowitt's lightning detector, will this also work with the GW1000/Meteobridge setup to pass along to ambientweather.net? And I guess the same question would relate to PM2.5 sensors, indoor temp/humidity sensors, etc. I *think* I read somewhere that the PM2.5 will work, but only one sensor (either indoor or outdoor) can be used with GW1000/Meteobridge to ambientweather.net. And possibly a limit to the number of indoor temp/humidity sensors with this kind of setup. I've read so much information that it's becoming a bit jumbled in my head! LOL!

I know we already touched on this, but I just want to make sure I am absolutely clear about this (whether I go with an AW sensor or Ecowitt GW1002). I can make the temp/rain/UV/etc adjustments, without a stand alone display, by using only a phone/tablet app. This is correct, yes?

[galfert]

I'm not sure on the Meteobridge to Ambientweather.net number of sensors supported. I only have one of each.

Yes Fine Offset clone stations without displaya can be 100% managed with the phone or tablet.

[Bart]

Just a couple more questions and I should be good to go.

Understanding the data path.

Let's go with the GW1002 coupled with a Meteobridge. I am assuming something, so correct me if I'm wrong. All of the Ecowitt sensors (even if I buy additional ones, ie lightning detector, PM2.5) ONLY will communicate with the GW1000. The GW1000 communicates with the Meteobridge. Meteobridge then sends data out to wherever I want it it (ambientweather.net, etc). Correct?

Granted, the GW1000 can ALSO send data to places that it can (ecowitt.net), but for my above question I'm just isolating my question regarding getting the Ecowitt sensor data to ambientweather.net (or anywhere else the Meteobridge can send data to). So the data flow would go like this...Ecowitt sensor(s) > GW1000 > Meteobridge > ambientweather.net.

So basically, the Ecowitt sensors do NOT communicate directly with the Meteobridge AT ALL. They only communicate with the GW1000, and the GW1000 communicates the data to Meteobridge. Correct?

[galfert]

Yes, correct on everything.

The sensors are RF broadcast devices. They are like a little radio station just broadcasting their data at given intervals that differ depending on sensor type. The GW1000 tunes in and listens for this one way RF broadcast data from each individual sensor. Nothing is sent back to the sensors. Any calibration only occurs in the GW1000 or whatever additional consoles you have (HP2551-C for example). There is an infinite amount of devices that can tune in and pick up your sensors. Even your neighbor if they are close enough can get a compatible console and pick up your sensors. There is no security nor encryption nor pairing locking that happens with the sensors. This is very different from how Bluetooth devices pair up and then lock out everyone else. This RF broadcast method out in the open is the norm for weather stations of various brands.

[Bart]

Perfect. I'm already aware of the RF transmission (but hey...I'm glad you added it in anyway. Too much info is better than not enough!). OK, this *should* be my final question...hopefully.

Regarding any calibration adjustments. For this example, we'll just use UV. Based against my current InAcuRite Atlas, late fall through early spring UV is pretty close. It's when summer hits that is specifically when it is bad...way bad. Anyway, basing against other Ecowitt/AW stations around me, they are a tad low right now. So I will assume that mine will be a little low right now as well if I had an Ecowitt/AW station.

So, here's my question. Would there be anything wrong with doing a calibration adjustment in late spring/early summer (when I notice UV reading low), and then in late summer/early fall (if I notice that UV is now too high) simply set the calibration back to factory value (1)? And then repeat this process the following years? Anything wrong with doing that? Seems logical enough, but just want to make sure that I'm not missing something.

Again...thank you SO much for your help with all of this. You really topped off the information that I needed even with the hours upon hours of reading/learning!

[galfert]

I think it is perfectly reasonable to make calibration adjustments whenever you feel doing so would provide better data. If your analysis and reference comparison determines that the data has symmetry and just needs adjustment then you perform the adjustment. But if the data is totally erratic then you replace the sensor.

[Bart]

But if the data is totally erratic then you replace the sensor.

And that is why I'm getting away from InAcuRite!!!

Thanks again. If I were closer, I'd buy you a beer...or 6.

[galfert]

 

[havtrail]

Side note (not that it matters...it's just for fun)...I live about 1 mile from the Ambient Weather shipping warehouse. They're on one side of I-10, and I'm just on the other side. I just discovered that about a week ago. I have NUMEROUS times rode my bicycle right past them and never even noticed!

Maybe you should check out their dumpster once in a while...   

Rich K.

[Bart]

Maybe you should check out their dumpster once in a while...   

Rich K.

Oooooooo! Now that would be COOL to do! Bet I could find a few goodies there. But why do I have this sinking suspicion that they have security cams all over that place?

[LazyDogFarms]

Maybe you should check out their dumpster once in a while...   

Rich K.

Oooooooo! Now that would be COOL to do! Bet I could find a few goodies there. But why do I have this sinking suspicion that they have security cams all over that place?

At Ambient Weather....nah.  Those are probably just weather cams!   

[Bart]

@Galfert

Since you're really up to speed on this, I figured I'd ask you directly in this topic.

Going with the combination of GW1000 (as a component of GW1002) and Meteobridge.

As far as power for the 2 devices. Meteobridge takes a standard wall plug, where GW1000 takes a USB plug. Since Meteobridge also has a USB port, is there anything wrong with powering the GW1000 with the Meteobridge? Or is best to leave Meteobridge "alone" in this aspect, and use something else USB to power GW1000? I have plenty of options for USB power, but this sounds the most simplistic.

In regards to placement. Is there any problem with having Meteobridge and GW1000 in close proximity of each other (a couple inches to a foot), or do they really need to be separated pretty well (maybe a couple feet or more) to avoid any type of interference with each other? Usual best practices would be to have them well apart, but just thought if you've experienced, or heard, of any issues with them being close together.

As far as implementation. Since this would be a combination of Ecowitt 1002/AW Meteobridge, would it be best to get all Ecowitt devices up, running, and full connectivity (including data being sent to Ecowitt.net) and THEN bring Meteobridge into the mix? My thoughts are that since the only thing AW would be the Meteobridge that it would be best to have all the Ecowitt stuff up and running just to confirm that the system is set up properly (including data to Ecowitt.net), and THEN bring Meteobridge into the mix and get data sent to Ambientweather.net. Does this sound like the best approach, or do you have a better suggestion?

[galfert]

I run run my GW1000 plugged into the Meteobridge for power and I've never experienced any problems. Lots of people do it this way too. Some people use a USB extender pigtail but not because they had problems but rather to be cautious. I don't think it makes a difference.

I would recommend getting all the data sensors to look right on WS View before configuring any uploads. That include not uploading to Ecowitt.net until your station is calibrated. The sensors are all pretty well calibrated except for the barometric pressure. You'll have to adjust that for your elevation and then fine tune it to your local METAR. You'll need to not only make sure that Relative pressure is correct but also that Absolute pressure is correct. If it isn't right then your Meteobridge will get bad data. Therefore do not connect the Meteobridge until you have completed this calibration. The other thing that needs possible calibration is the UV and Solar Radiation...but at your location I doubt you'll have to touch it. This is mostly an issue for overcast places (like the UK) and more northern location (and likewise for the more extreme southern hemisphere). Therefore in your case I would not worry about getting UV and Solar Radiation dialed in before uploading to services.

Steps:

• Do not install outdoor sensors yet
• Update GW1000 firmware with WS View app
• Test station sensors for reception but still not mounted yet, test rain gauge by hand, take notice of data being received that it looks good
• Mount sensors at final installation siting and test signal is good at that location. Give it a few minutes. Signal strength is not real signal strength but rather just number of recent broadcasts received.
• Factory reset to erase test data from rain gauge testing and from other sensor testing
• Calibrate barometer - involves dealing with both Relative and Absolute
• Optional - Upload Ecowitt.net and WU with the GW1000 at this point if you want or you can wait until Meteobridge setup is complete
• Make sure Meteobridge has latest firmware version running
• Confirm that Meteobridge licenses are indicating that it is licensed in License tab
• Configure Meteobridge station settings like Elevation, Time Zone, Latitude/Longitude before giving it the GW1000's IP address
• Connect the Meteobridge to GW1000's IP address
• Make sure that all your sensors show up in the Meteobridge Live Data tab
• Optional - Configure desired Meteobridge upload services

If any maintenance or fixes need to be done to sensors then power down the GW1000 and the Meteobridge so that they don't receive bad data during maintenance and location fixing.

[Bart]

Perfect! That was exactly what I was looking for. The process to setting everything up so it goes as smooth as possible!

[Bart]

If any maintenance or fixes need to be done to sensors then power down the GW1000 and the Meteobridge so that they don't receive bad data during maintenance and location fixing.

Yep. That's what I do with my InAcuRite Atlas/Access.

[ceemom]

I want to buy the Ambient Weather WS-5000-ARRAY Replacement Ultrasonic Anemometer, Outdoor Thermometer / Hygrometer, Solar Radiation and UV for WS-5000, WS-2902A, WS-2902B, WS-2902C and WS-2000 Weather Stations but it is  OUT OF STOCK.   

In this thread someone mentioned in July 2020 that it was OUT OF STOCK.   Is that just a coincidence or is it never in stock -- just an erroneous listing on their web-site or something?

I am in USA (San Diego, CA).  I really like the 6-in-1 Sensor with the ultrasonic wind sensor.  I understand that I MUST purchase the ultrasonic sensor array from Ambient because I am in the USA.

The GW1000 is a better fit for me than the Ambient WS5000 because I do not need a display, but only if I can get the WS80 without having to rent a PO Box over the border in Mexico!!

I just returned a Weatherflow Tempest I got for Christmas.  It was a bit of work selecting the site and getting the pole all set up, but I was quite proud of my installation . . . until the wind started to blow.  The haptic rain sensor reported heavy rain any time the wind exceeded 25mph.  Their RainCheck software made corrections  overnight so the erroneous data was not included in history, but I don't think that is a reasonable solution.  It reports incorrect information all day -- and my irrigation controller uses that information!

In short, I like the ultrasonic anemometer with integrated Temperature, humidity and flux sensors.  It is like a Tempest without that stupid haptic rain sensor.   I plan to add a couple indoor sensors, a couple soil moisture sensors and a solar-powered particulate sensor, but I do not need a display.  That is why I plan to assemble a GW1000-based system.

[Mandrake]

As previously mentioned Ecowitt have an agreement with Ambient Weather to exclusively only sell the WS80 in the US through AmbientWeather so that's the only easy (direct) route I am afraid.
There are ways around that by using shipping forwarders etc.
So have it delivered from Ecowitt to Canada and forwarded.
If you have any relatives North of the border then that also makes for an easy option.