Author Topic: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator  (Read 3834 times)

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Offline galfert

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I've been testing the newly released firmware version 1.4.0 for the WS-2000. I have some interesting observations about both the new RF signal strength indicator feature and also regarding the battery status indicator.

EDIT: This applies to all Fine Offset clone stations not just WS-2000. If you for example have a GW1000 then the premise is the same.

RF Signal Strength Indicator
Seems like the RF signal strength indicator is not really a signal strength indicator. The behavior I've noticed with the optional temperature/humidity sensor is that when first powered on the signal strength indicator only shows 1 signal bar. Even when the optional sensor is 1 foot away and with brand new Duracell batteries. It is only after a few minutes of reporting that you notice with every minute that passes that the signal indicator increases by 1 bar each time till it finally reaches full 4 bars of signal strength indication. This is a farce! This is not really reporting signal strength. It is just assuming that if it gets all consecutive RF data broadcasts that you must have good enough signal. Then I decided to let it get to full 4 bars and remove the battery. Yep it took 4 minutes in 1 minute increments to decrease back down to zero bars. I then tested removing batteries after full 4 bars and then let it drop to 2 bars and then I put the batteries back in. I was expecting it to climb back up to 3 bars but it didn't. It went down to 1 bar. I thought oh yeah it needs a minute to start broadcasting. I wait another minute and then I expect it to climb to 2 bars....nope...went down to zero bars. I then waited a few more minutes and it never climbed back up. I waited a full 5 or 7 minutes and nothing....zero bars. It then occurred to me that the sensor changes channels and it does the pairing only at power-up. So before shutdown I checked the About section of the display where there is a new feature in the latest firmware that shows you the optional sensor channel number. It was set to channel 0xd7.  Okay power cycle the display and let it redetect the optional sensor on its new channel. Sure enough it picks it up and now it shows it is on channel 0x45. So you can't remove the batteries or the channel changes to something random and you need to repair with the console. I then decided to let it reach full 4 bars and then I took the optional sensor across the street to my neighbors house (far enough away to not have signal at the display). This way it stays powered on and the channel doesn't change. Then I ran back home. Watched the signal strength decrease down to 2 bars. Ran back across the street quickly and brought the sensor back in. It had gone down to 1 bar. Waited a minute and it climbed to 2 bars and then kept climbing to full 4 bars. So there you have it. Not really a signal strength indicator people! Unbelievable! Now I'm not about to put the outdoor sensor array through the same test for obvious reasons. But if you power up your display you'll notice that the outdoor sensor array signal also always starts off at 1 bar and climbs up. One difference is that the outdoor sensor array climbs up much quicker. This is because the reporting interval of the outdoor sensor array is every 14 seconds where as the optional sensor only reports every 60 seconds. So for the outdoor sensor array it climbs up 1 bar every 14 seconds.

Battery Status Indicator
I could not get the battery status indicator to come on. I took out my dead AA battery bag that I hadn't yet taken to the transfer station for recycling. I had a nice selection of various AA batteries at different voltage levels. I measured them with my multi-meter and I had batteries in various ranges; 0.3 volts, 0.6 volts, 0.9 volts, 1.0 volt, 1.1 volts, and 1.2 volts. I had more than one set at these voltages. I go through a lot of batteries and I hadn't taken for recycling in a while. Must have had 30 batteries. I measured all of them and sorted them. Then I proceeded to test them. Sure enough with 1.1 volts the display on the optional sensor lights up but very dim. I noticed I needed at least 1.1 volts for the thing to power up. with 1 volt batteries...nothing...screen is blank and off. So I waited and reset my display console. Every minute that passed I could see the optional sensor antenna icon light up on its own LCD display. Sometimes this other dot with circular sections would also light up. Not sure what the difference is. In any case with 1.1 volt batteries at 1 foot from the display it never registers with the display. The display never sees the sensor. With 1.2 volt batteries it registered and the screen LCD looks better. But no low battery indicator. You can see where the fake signal strength indicator is over to the right. I believe that space to the left of it is where the batter indicator is supposed to show up. Same thing for the outdoor sensor array fake signal indicator as there is a space between it and the WiFi signal indicator as that is where the battery I think is intended to show up. So not sure if this battery low indicator is working. I didn't have any 1.3 volt batteries nor 1.4 volt batteries to test. Maybe that is when it shows up. Maybe someone has a digital power source like the ones used in electronics labs and they can test with exact custom voltage levels. I also tried mixing different voltage batteries to get it to trigger a low battery and it still wouldn't.

Okay so now I'm wondering if the WS-2902A doesn't do the exact same thing. Since the WS-2902A doesn't use optional sensors I'm not about to put my outdoor sensor array through this test. I don't want to get up on a ladder and remove batteries and desolder the super-cap, cover the solar panel or unbolt and move the darn thing across the street and run it back.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:22:24 PM by galfert »
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Offline galfert

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2019, 12:48:01 PM »
Come to think of it with the WS-2902A you either have a signal or you don't I think. Does anyone at the fringe 100 feet distance have anything but full bars on a WS-2902A??? I'm willing to bet everyone has either full bars or it doesn't work. This could indicate why some people have such difficulty placing the WS-2902A as they try an go by what seems to be fake RF signal strength indications.

Just imagine holding a brand new WS-2902A outdoor sensor in your hand with a WS-2902A display. Then you start close with a signal which quickly climbs up to full 4 bars. Then you start to slowly move away with the outdoor sensor in hand. At some distance you notice 1 bar drop. You think to yourself aha this is the point where it starts to get weak. But you'd be mistaken...that would be the point where you lost 100% signal strength and it started to drop bars one refresh cycle at a time. This is enough to drive anyone batty....which is what you find if you read some of the older comments with new users.

Hopefully this information can spread so that people with new WS-2000 and WS-2902A stations don't suffer these headaches. The good news is that some people have employed the use of outdoor yagi directional antennas as add on to the outdoor sensor array to resolve distance problems.

All you need is a 915 MHz yagi antenna. $18
https://www.amazon.com/Phonetone-Outdoor-Directional-Antenna-Connector/dp/B00EC804SO

Pictures and results good.
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35470.msg366723#msg366723
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 12:50:26 PM by galfert »
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Offline kbellis

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2019, 04:39:18 PM »
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RSSI (Radio Signal Strength Indicator)
I've been testing the v1.4.0 update all day and have also observed that the RSSI icon doesn't immediately reflect the present UHF signal strength, that it takes several minutes for it to settle, and even then has been observed to fluctuate, or at least insofar as an icon can display, before ascending back to 4 bars. Maybe some folks with an SDR setup can fill us in a little better.

One of my tests placed the WH32B the furthest away from the office and still in the house (about 70-75') with the RSSI icon dropping down to 2-3 bars over the course of about 30 minutes, but then climbed up to 4 bars. Another test placed the sensor in the freezer (half the distance from the tablet display) and saw the icon changing between 2-3 bars during the first 15 minutes before going back up to 4 bars in another 10 minutes or so.


battery status are now displayed
I still haven't seen anything that indicates the status of the batteries on either the Osprey outdoor array, nor on the indoor WH32B sensors. Maybe I'm overlooking it on a hidden screen or something, but I never could find the battery status display for either sets of batteries.


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Sensor ID is displayed on About Display page for advanced customer troubleshooting
There are many sensors that could be paired with the tablet display, and out of those possibilities, I have the multi-sensor array outdoors associated with the Osprey and 2-sensor indoor array of the WH32B.

Contrasting the About Display screen before and after the v1.4.0 firmware update, I see virtually no differences between them including the same amount of available storage even after 2-months of data; moreover, I am not seeing individual sensor's ID which I was sort of expecting given the change log notes for v1.4.0. The Indoor ID of 0xc8, and the Outdoor ID of 0x99 shown in January (v1.3.8 ) are still equally vague after the March update.
 

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Rain rate value is now displayed
One of the first things noticed this morning whilst a rain event was underway, was the loss of some rain-related data after the update including the running total of the rain event, the hourly value, and most curiously 0.01" for the daily value. Obviously it's not a big deal, but it was interesting to see the 0.01" loss immediately after the update and thereafter.

And related was the clearing of the maximum daily gust after the update.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 04:48:38 PM by kbellis »

Offline galfert

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2019, 05:27:28 PM »
Kelly,
Very nice post with good photos. I was lazy today in my posts....well more like I was too busy with work stuff at the same time that I rushed to publish what I posted because I wanted to get this information out. Thank you for doing more extensive testing.

I think it is a good idea to get some comparison results with those with SDR. But seems like your more extensive testing showed similar results to my short tests with 4 bars being the resulting indication after several minutes. Interesting that it changed as you moved it though. I wonder why that happens? Well I mean it is obvious for the signal to drop from further distance (if that is what it is really measuring...but I'm not certain that it is yet) but what doesn't make sense for it the then later go back up to 4 bars at the greater distance. Unless the signal drops as it is being handled because the hand is blocking and becomes interference and then maybe it looses a broadcast at the console....till you finally release it at the new location and then broadcasts are then received again.
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Offline Sir_MAK

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 07:49:47 AM »
I am wondering if this is like my old Acurite displays.  The "signal strength" indicator is not a RSSI meter/value.  It's was a data packet loss indicator.  The display expects a data packet every 15 seconds or so.  If it fails to receive a data packet in that time period it would remove one bar.  If in the next 15 seconds or so it did receive a data packet it would add a bar backif not it would remove another bar.

I am not at home but a good way to test this is to remove the batteries from the indoor sensor and see what the signal indicator does.  If the bars slowly go away over a period of a minute or so, and when the batteries are back in the bars come back, one at a time, over a similar period of this I would guess this is how they work.
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Offline kbellis

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 09:17:46 AM »
Good idea. My first tests show exactly as you predicted, but with a little twist and a side note. After removal of the batteries from the WH32B, the signal icon slowly, over several minutes, dropped its bars one by one, right to left, until only a single vertical element remained; the taller one with the little trianglular top serif. Inserting the batteries back into the WH32B and waiting forever and a day showed no changes on the WS-2000 tablet display. Placing the WH32B in the freezer likewise illustrated that the temp and humidity of the WH32B never was reflected on the WS-2000 tablet display. It wasn't until a full power cycle of the WS-2000 that communications between it and the WH32B became evident. Gradually, the icon's bars came back into view, one by one, over several minutes, right to left.

Interestingly, the supposed battery status indicator never has been observed; neither in today's test, nor in yesterday's tests, even when the batteries had been removed. I'm guessing that the intended location of the battery status indicator will be on the main screen. If anybody has seen this elusive critter, please post a photo of it.

I am wondering if this is like my old Acurite displays.  The "signal strength" indicator is not a RSSI meter/value.  It's was a data packet loss indicator.  The display expects a data packet every 15 seconds or so.  If it fails to receive a data packet in that time period it would remove one bar.  If in the next 15 seconds or so it did receive a data packet it would add a bar backif not it would remove another bar.

I am not at home but a good way to test this is to remove the batteries from the indoor sensor and see what the signal indicator does.  If the bars slowly go away over a period of a minute or so, and when the batteries are back in the bars come back, one at a time, over a similar period of this I would guess this is how they work.

Offline galfert

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 10:03:11 AM »
I am wondering if this is like my old Acurite displays.  The "signal strength" indicator is not a RSSI meter/value.  It's was a data packet loss indicator.  The display expects a data packet every 15 seconds or so.  If it fails to receive a data packet in that time period it would remove one bar.  If in the next 15 seconds or so it did receive a data packet it would add a bar backif not it would remove another bar.

I am not at home but a good way to test this is to remove the batteries from the indoor sensor and see what the signal indicator does.  If the bars slowly go away over a period of a minute or so, and when the batteries are back in the bars come back, one at a time, over a similar period of this I would guess this is how they work.

That is exactly what I did and described in my post above (the removing the battery part). BUT you can not insert the batteries and watch it climb back up unless you also power cycle the console. This is because every time you put in batteries into a sensor it starts to broadcast on a new channel ID. The console will only pair with sensors on first power up. Thereafter the console will stay locked to that sensor on that channel ID. You can go into the console's About section and see these channel IDs as they always start with 0x and then follwed by two more characters which are random ever time the sensor is powered up with new batteries.
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Offline galfert

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2019, 10:14:15 AM »
This is actually a good discovery regarding sensor channels. I had previously thought that I would be in trouble if my neighbor next door got a weather station and choose to also get an Ambient like mine. I was worried that we would conflict with each other and our consoles would sometimes pick up each others sensors. Being that there is no way to manually select channels I was not aware that there were channels. I thought all Ambient stations transmitted on 915 MHz and so be it and nothing about channels...just sensor type descriptions in the RF broadcast I thought. I thought this because there is no way to manually select a channel. Now with the newest firmware you can see that there are channels (this was previously not shown prior to Revision Firmware 1.4.0).

This all means that you should be able to have two Ambient stations and as long as you power up one at a time with its sensors then you can power up the second sensors and then power up the console for that second station.....assuming you end up with different random channels on that second station. So you'd have to check the channel numbers and make sure you got different channels. But come to think of it if you power up the second station then the second console will see a possibility of two stations and there is no way to discern which to lock onto. Maybe you put the console close by and hope you lock on to the correct one....it not power cycle and try again. Potentially a bit tedious but doable I think. But then every time there is a power outage then your console would power up and lock on to whichever one....so that would suck. You could use a UPS for the console to help on short power outages....but still lame. Too bad Ambient doesn't let you manually assign channels with dip switches on the sensors....like you can on the optional indoor sensors. I'm referring to making this part of the outdoor sensor array....which is the critical part.
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Offline Sir_MAK

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2019, 10:28:47 AM »
This is actually a good discovery regarding sensor channels. I had previously thought that I would be in trouble if my neighbor next door got a weather station and choose to also get an Ambient like mine. I was worried that we would conflict with each other and our consoles would sometimes pick up each others sensors. Being that there is no way to manually select channels I was not aware that there were channels. I thought all Ambient stations transmitted on 915 MHz and so be it and nothing about channels...just sensor type descriptions in the RF broadcast I thought. I thought this because there is no way to manually select a channel. Now with the newest firmware you can see that there are channels (this was previously not shown prior to Revision Firmware 1.4.0).

This all means that you should be able to have two Ambient stations and as long as you power up one at a time with its sensors then you can power up the second sensors and then power up the console for that second station.....assuming you end up with different random channels on that second station. So you'd have to check the channel numbers and make sure you got different channels. But come to think of it if you power up the second station then the second console will see a possibility of two stations and there is no way to discern which to lock onto. Maybe you put the console close by and hope you lock on to the correct one....it not power cycle and try again. Potentially a bit tedious but doable I think. But then every time there is a power outage then your console would power up and lock on to whichever one....so that would suck. You could use a UPS for the console to help on short power outages....but still lame. Too bad Ambient doesn't let you manually assign channels with dip switches on the sensors....like you can on the optional indoor sensors. I'm referring to making this part of the outdoor sensor array....which is the critical part.
I saw something similar when I setup my Ecowitt sensors.  The WS1000 picked up my two fridge sensors and assigned them 1 and 2 as per the dip switch settings.  However the Soil moisture probe would not register when it was power up.  I went and powered down the fridge unit 1 and then the soil moisture probe connected and started reporting.  When I powered the fridge sensor 1 back on it would no longer show up.  I set its dip switches to 3 and then it checked in.  My guess is that each sensor has a unique identifier in the messages it sends out than allow the receivers to properly "pair" with them.
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Offline ALEEF02

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2019, 05:07:40 PM »
Has anyone since seen the low-battery icon and in what conditions it comes up? If not, I might email Ambient Weather and ask them about it

Offline ALEEF02

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2019, 10:31:23 AM »
Hey guys,
After nearly 3 months of my PM2.5 running on battery I finally saw the elusive icon this morning. Dang, it sure went a long time without charging!
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Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2019, 12:08:30 PM »
^ that seems a bit short to me? Mine has been going since May 28th and still has 3/4 of the battery left.


Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2019, 07:40:16 AM »
My batteries in the PM sensor eventually needed charging about a week after I made my above post. I charged them fully, and they're already going flat. In fact, it showed I still had around 25% left but the sensor had stopped functioning. The graphs show it has flat lined since 5am. It seems odd that it lasted from May until November the first time, and the second charge lasted 3 weeks?!


Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2019, 09:02:37 AM »
The solar output from the sun is so much less at this time of the year that the battery will quickly deplete (in the UK at least)
It also depends on your location of the sensor relative to the sun
I have mine on a windowsill with a small tilt (~40 Degrees) to the sky and south facing. So far its had two charges since March and is currently showing 75% charge.
I have not waited for a low charge though between topping up, just done it when it has occurred to me.
I would also note that NiCd batteries are not so efficient at storage of the charge when its been cold and it has been quite cool in the UK lately.
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Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2019, 02:59:58 PM »
Batteries are now fully charged, but I have no values coming from it - graphs have flat lined. I did notice when I removed it from it's siting, a ton of water came out of it.


Offline Mandrake

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2019, 03:12:23 PM »
Oops, sounds like its been killed by the rain.
Try drying it out and see if comes back to life. You should be able to hear the fan every 10 mins
G1ZFO

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Ecowitt GW1000 (Mk2) test environment driving CumulusMX on a RPi 3b
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Offline Mapantz

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2019, 03:57:37 PM »
Oops, sounds like its been killed by the rain.
Try drying it out and see if comes back to life. You should be able to hear the fan every 10 mins

No fan on mine?


Offline ALEEF02

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Re: WS-2000 RF Signal Strength Indicator and Low Battery Indicator
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2019, 04:50:02 PM »
Oops, sounds like its been killed by the rain.
Try drying it out and see if comes back to life. You should be able to hear the fan every 10 mins

No fan on mine?

There is, it's just inside the module. It pushes the air through the monitor every 10 minutes to get a reading

 

anything