Author Topic: WS90 rain rate spike problem  (Read 1342 times)

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Offline wsNoordbergum

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WS90 rain rate spike problem
« on: January 16, 2023, 03:54:37 AM »
I started this new topic because my spike problem with the WS90 rain sensor are still continuing as mentioned in this thread
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=44811.25

After cleaning the unit and fresh batteries it worked reasonably well for a day or so, no spikes or phantom rain.
Voltage of the batteries 3.2 volt, now already dropped to 2.8 in a 5 day period
Intermittent spikes of 0.6 mm/h continuously......
I now decreased the Raingain1 to 0.1 in order to keep the accumulated rain as low as possible.
I sent Ecowitt a message explaining my WS90 problem
I use firmware 1.2.6 on the WS90 and 2.2.1 on my GW2000
All other readings are fine
Here are some screenshots of graphs, notice my supercap not charging at all, when I replaced the batteries it was approximately 4.1 volt with some sunshine, then dropping and staying at the same level
Also graphs of my WS90 rain and the WH40, notice the spikes of 0.6mm/h
One more thing I noticed, my GW2000 has lost wifi connection/rebooted spontaneously a few times now
It takes quite some time for it to reconnect, wifi signal strength is strong
My guess is that there is something wrong with a voltage regulator
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 04:02:24 AM by wsNoordbergum »
Davis Vantage Pro 2 UV/Solar
Meteobridge nano SD
Ecowitt WS90 WH40 WH31 WH57 GW2000 HP2550_c
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Offline Rover1822

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2023, 12:38:59 PM »
I have no explanation for your rain spikes, let us hope Ecowitt supplies some information and please share that if they do. This reply is more about the battery/capacitor.

I do have some anecdotal observations on the charging/discharging of the capacitor, and battery status when not plugged in.  I would also be interested in others experience.

1. I notice the capacitor depletes faster when there is a rain event (this might make sense).
2. I notice that right around 2.5V on the capacitor, the battery V starts to fall a small amount, like 3.28 to 3.26 , this is with Lithiums. This can go lower depending on how long the capacitor is held low and dropping due to lack of sun. Normally in my environment the battery bounces back to 3.28 V once the cap gets charged up again via solar. This is of course, not battery charging, but probably the normal bounce back when the load is removed from the batteries.   Lithium batteries have a much flatter discharge curve than to alkalines.
3. Although you can get some capacitor charging at like 50 W/m^2 , really takes a bit more than that, and for a long period.
4. My capacitors on both units top out at ~5.3V when charged.

Now , I looked at your Solar chart, in my opinion, that is not enough to get the supercapacitor to charge in a timely manner (meaning I doubt you are getting to a full capacitor charge each day, or any as far as I can tell). I have a short window for charging thanks to trees, but my peak solar is usually around 350 W/m^2 (this time of year with a low sun angle), and that , is not enough to get the caps to full charge, unless I have a few days like that.

Is your unit shaded? for a large portion of the day?
 


 

« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 12:43:57 PM by Rover1822 »
Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline hiljo

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2023, 01:33:19 PM »
Is your unit shaded? for a large portion of the day?

The weather here in the Netherlands is currently already a week or so gray and cold and the sun is at it's lowest point. So my WS90 is also using battery. The upcoming days more sunshine is predicted, so lets see what your capacitor is doing wsNoordbergum?
Ecowitt HP2550C v1.9.3
2x GW2000 v3.1.1
WittBoy WS90 v1.3.8
Smart Sensors (WFC01 & AC1100) beta tester
3x WH31, WH32, WH40, WH41, WH57
WN34L, 2x WH51, WN35, WN34D

Dutch translator for Ecowitt.

https://www.weerstationhattem.nl/
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Offline wsNoordbergum

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2023, 03:09:41 PM »
Normally with good sunshine in summer the capacitor charges up to 5,1~5.3 volts
Since the beginning of December it just idles at 2.5 volt.
We wait for sunshine and we'll see
I cannot explain how the spikes are generated I do know they appear once the battery Voltage drops under 3V and the capacitor is also under 3 volt
I will get some lithium batteries to install
I might remove the batteries and go for only external power
Just to see how the spike behavior is then

I'll keep you informed
Davis Vantage Pro 2 UV/Solar
Meteobridge nano SD
Ecowitt WS90 WH40 WH31 WH57 GW2000 HP2550_c
CumulusMX/raspberry Pi 4b

Offline wsNoordbergum

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2023, 12:02:34 PM »
Update,

Removed the batteries last week and with a sunny day my supercap of the WS90 charged just fine to 5.3 volt.
But spikes still occuring.
Yesterday unplugged external power, put fresh lithium batteries in and today with no sunshine supercap dropped to 3.2 volt
Still spiking of rainrate at random times it seems.
Sent Ecowitt an email, but due to newyear holidays, no reply yet.
Hope it can be solved.
Soon I will upgrade the firmware of the WS90 to the latest 1.3.0 version
Hope that it may solve my WS90 rainrate spike behaviour

Also I had a complete power failure it seemed of my GW2000, both LEDs, the red and the blue one were not lighting up.
No connection could be made with the GW2000, so no data.....
Power cycle and it was ok again.
It now occured two times, replaced the original USB power supply
Davis Vantage Pro 2 UV/Solar
Meteobridge nano SD
Ecowitt WS90 WH40 WH31 WH57 GW2000 HP2550_c
CumulusMX/raspberry Pi 4b

Offline Rover1822

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2023, 12:21:11 PM »
Yeah your rain spikes are sadly, unusual. I do get them on my newer unit, but not like you. I might get one an hour after a rain event or something then gone.

On GW2000 reset, I have mine plugged into an UPS that also powers other things, and have not had blimp or strange behavior from it. I really recommend UPS to power almost all electronics where possible. I mean even my 60' Samsung TV has gone stupid after a strange power outage/brownout or a fast power out and repeated power ups in short order as they bring the mains back online.

I mean it is just another piece of electronics ...


Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline wsNoordbergum

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2023, 05:19:21 PM »
Well a little update on my issue with the WS90 sofar.
After installing the latest firmware 1.3.0 still no improvement of the spike problem.
I contacted Ecowitt and they asked some pictures of the upper surface of the WS90, the surface is clean.
So they checked my station on the Ecowitt.net website and agreed this is not good.

They will send me a replacement unit as this one is faulty.

Ecowitt has good customer service and aftersales and the response by email was swift, very good.

Thanks Ecowitt!

I hope the new unit will last a bit longer then 9 months....

Davis Vantage Pro 2 UV/Solar
Meteobridge nano SD
Ecowitt WS90 WH40 WH31 WH57 GW2000 HP2550_c
CumulusMX/raspberry Pi 4b

Offline Gyvate

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2023, 05:39:04 AM »
I hope the new unit will last a bit longer then 9 months....
there is hope  ;)
I have two WS90 up and running - one still from the beta test (Jan 2022) and one latest hardware revision (Jun 2022).
The latter with external power supply. Both went through strong winds and rain and sub-zero degree times - but kept up well.
Both are working faultlessly (of course the calibration is a challenge, but with my 2nd generation WS90 I've narrowed it down to a for me acceptable "corridor" compared to my WH40 and WS69 (and manual) readings.
WS2350 1.6.7, GW1000(3) 1.7.7,WH2650 WiFi (2) 1.7.7 (test/backup), GW1100 2.3.1, GW2000(3) 3.1.1, HP2551 1.9.5,5.1.5;HP3500 1.7.2,WS3800 1.2.8, WN1910 1.2.3,WN1980 1.2.3;
Ecowitt WS90(2)1.3.5/1.4.0, WS80(2)1.2.5, WS68, WS69, WH40, WH31, WH31-EP, WN30, WN34L, WN35, WH32, WH32-EP, WH32B, WH57 [Lightning], WH41 [PM2.5], WH51, WH45, WH55
MeteobridgePro(2)[test,prod] 5.8 Mar 01 2024, 15185 - Blake-Larsen Sun Recorder - RPi4/weewx 4.8.0/4.10.2/CumulusMX 3283/Meteobridge RPi4B-2GB(3169)
Barani Meteoshield Pro, MetSpec Rad02 - Ecowitt 5763,34418;WU ISAARB3(WH4000SE),ISAARB22(HP2553), http://meshka.eu

Offline wsNoordbergum

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2023, 11:39:28 AM »
A new unit is shipped, can't wait..
Good aftersales from Ecowitt.
When I have received the unit, I'll post an update.
Davis Vantage Pro 2 UV/Solar
Meteobridge nano SD
Ecowitt WS90 WH40 WH31 WH57 GW2000 HP2550_c
CumulusMX/raspberry Pi 4b

Offline wsNoordbergum

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2023, 06:02:41 PM »
Yesterday I received a new WS90 from Ecowitt
Today was a day with quite a few rain showers, sofar I have rain readings which are close (within 0,3mm) to my WH40 and Davis, with calibration setting of 0.64
So far so good......

Again great support from Ecowitt!
Davis Vantage Pro 2 UV/Solar
Meteobridge nano SD
Ecowitt WS90 WH40 WH31 WH57 GW2000 HP2550_c
CumulusMX/raspberry Pi 4b

Offline BaseLine

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2023, 04:26:52 AM »
Don't worry about it. It changes nothing, if its measurements are slightly off or not. I think about my WS90 as a "toy on a stick" I paid few hundred for and that's about it.  :) Worrying about it, especially if you already have few other and more accurate devices, makes even less sense.
Ask your self (seriously): What will change for better, in my life (and for people around me), if I keep worrying about a +- 0.x mm rain measurement with a toy on a stick?
Nothing.
Then why worry?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2023, 04:35:29 AM by BaseLine »
Sun cooked nothingburger of climate change hysteria with a side order of peak-oil nonsense fries.

Offline Rover1822

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2023, 07:34:44 AM »
Yesterday I received a new WS90 from Ecowitt
Today was a day with quite a few rain showers, sofar I have rain readings which are close (within 0,3mm) to my WH40 and Davis, with calibration setting of 0.64
So far so good......

Again great support from Ecowitt!

Did you use .64 for all the WS90 calibration points?
Ambient:
  WS-2000
  PM 2.5(2)
  WH31B(2)
  WH40E
  WH31P
EcoWitt:
  GW1100
  GW1000(4)
  WH31(2)
  WH57
  WH51(12),
  WH40
  WH5360B
  WN34S
  WittBoy WS90 + GW2000
  WS90 (other one) + GW1100
Personal Sites: Weather Cam

Offline henry

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2023, 04:31:02 AM »
The ws90  rain is determined by two factors: one is the haptic rain output when raindrops are big enough to have piezo voltage output. The other part is when rain is extremely small, the rain is counted via its rain detector impedance change. For your case, it seems that during different rain event gaps, the water accumulated on the sensor plate impedance is changing somehow: when there is wind blowing, the impedance caused some variation and this triggered a mist rain-type detection pattern triggered. Ecowitt is trying to find a new sensor plate design that can avoid such triggering due to residue water impedance change.  Tempest rain has poor performance for mist rain detection, and the WS90 just tries to overcome this shortcoming. I believe giving a little bit more time, Ecowitt can come up with an improved solution that can minimize this problem to the smallest.

Offline wsNoordbergum

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Re: WS90 rain rate spike problem
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2023, 09:31:57 AM »
Thanks Henry for the explanation,

Another thing that I noted is that my new WS90 seems to charge the supercap much better and the supercap holds the voltage longer during the night.
My previous unit charged to about 4.5v in similar conditions and would drop to 2.5v and stay at 2.5v
Now my new unit charged yesterday to 5.2v and it dropped to 4.2 during the night
I think there is also something going on with the power management of my old unit.
I cleaned my old unit and checked the inside of the lower part, no signs of water intrusion, there was a cable damaged, there was a part of the cable insulation cracked, it was not severed


@Henry, even when there was no moisture on the top I still had spikes
Is the impedance measured bij the rounded metal strips on top in the middle? (marked bij red arrows on picture)
I have not had the top open, seems to delicate to do that

Sofar my new unit is ok, so it appears not to be an interference issue of somekind
Davis Vantage Pro 2 UV/Solar
Meteobridge nano SD
Ecowitt WS90 WH40 WH31 WH57 GW2000 HP2550_c
CumulusMX/raspberry Pi 4b

 

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