Author Topic: Weatherlink > Data  (Read 2576 times)

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Offline JRHill

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Weatherlink > Data
« on: March 25, 2023, 03:33:17 PM »
I subscribed to Pro before the end of 2022 so I could finally have cloud storage for historical purposes. I was amazed to learn that WL has been collecting data all along, you just don't get to see it unless you pay up  ](*,) Woo Hoo and Duh.

Anyway, something I can't figure out about WL. Why is there a delay for the uploaded data to be displayed? For example right now it is 12:28pm and when I look at the bulletin: Last updated: March 25, 2023 / 12:27 PM. But if I look at the Data page the most recent line shown is 3/25 at 1 am.

So where is the last 12 hours? I'm almost afraid this going to be something really silly. But I have to ask.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2023, 05:30:52 PM »
Bulletin data is within a minute or so but archive interval data is uploaded in hourly blocks and can be an hour behind. 12 hours behind isn't normal? Have you checked your time settings, time zone etc, UTC/Local?     
« Last Edit: March 25, 2023, 05:34:18 PM by Mattk »

Offline JRHill

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2023, 03:43:19 PM »
I checked, JIC. Yup, the time zone is correct.

I think the problem is Weatherlink 6.0.5. The bulletin is up to date but I have many times wondered it the data is being sent. And I know from the past that just because the Weatherlink Network Upload: On is showing, that doesn't mean the data is actually being sent. Lord knows connection problems are have been a topic forever.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2023, 04:03:50 PM »
From a weatherlink for Windows upload, the archive data should go up once an hour IIRC. But if there is an extended Internet outage for any reason then although the missed archive data will backfill, this process can take quite a while (eg several hours), depending on the period of outage.
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Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2023, 04:56:58 PM »
Now that you have mentioned WeatherLinkPC (v6.05) in this, could you explain where WeatherLink 6.05 fits into this? Are you referring to the bulletin in WLPC or WL.com? What Davis system/logger/upload means etc 

Offline JRHill

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2023, 05:47:59 PM »
Thanks for asking. It would/could be either. Problem is I can't tell which but I am leaning toward WLPC because of history. Both show updates are current to the time. As far as history I got tired of rebooting my computer to restore communications for upload (USB). This was 2010 or so. I finally gave up and took the configuration down*. The VP2 worked fine for my wife to know how to dress for the day where she lived and worked on site at a fed hatchery. I was 75% of the time away building our home for he future. When she retired I brought the system here and set it up and a new site location. But we didn't upload. By then the station was in need of a massive refurb. When it came back from Davis I added the UV/Solar. At that time, 2019, I installed WL and began uploading data to the new site.

In my opinion, Weatherlink (at the PC level) hasn't improved much. Dial up modem config still there? Weatherlink in the cloud does great, to the degree it receives the upload. Yes, yes, don't launch on me... there are a lot of machine / device things. But it is a far cry of the 2010 days. And here is my source of doubt.

Davis can pull $50/year for the cloud stuff but they could maybe update things? Maybe make things a bit more reliable and current?

* When I took the weather station down, around 2010, I got a call from a guy in Pendleton asking why? I told him I couldn't have my PC being rebooted constantly (worked from home). He offered to come to our place and install Cumulous because WL was so flakey. A known issue and they aren't investing any recourses to fix it and he wanted us back on line.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2023, 06:55:42 PM »
Weatherlink for Windows is obsolete now, in the sense that Davis made the decision some years ago to stop any further development. The modern Davis solution is Weatherlink Live or the new Weatherlink console.

That said, there are still thousands of users of the USB logger out there, many of whom are uploading to weatherlink.com. And the great majority do not have have anything more than very occasional need to reboot the PC, provided they have taken care of any potential source of nearby interference that can cause USB issues.
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Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2023, 07:19:11 PM »
WeatherLink for Windows is far from obsolete, it's about the only real solution in regard the Envoy configuration and this combination will really flag what Davis is really into regard their current apparent direction? Yes it may be old but it does actually work.

The USB logger was never a real success, serial logger yes and more so the WLIP but of course Davis couldn't extract anything from the WLIP once it was sold so they simply discontinued it, so much for their transparency. WLIP's work perfectly well, always have, no PC required but also no income stream to backup the new business models.   

Certainly appears a lot of blind sided users gasping over the new console with their heads in the cloud, literally.

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2023, 05:43:05 AM »
WeatherLink for Windows is far from obsolete...

Which word do you want to use then? Any further development of this program was terminated several years ago by Davis, other than the smallest of bug fixes. Sure, it still works OK (and provided you are happy with the very dated user interface it still works well for its limited set of features - you won't find me as a critic of WLfW functionality).

But sooner or later I suspect that it's probably going to bump up against a Windows or driver model update that causes real problems - Microsoft aren't going to stop pushing major Windows updates every few months. And it's pretty doubtful that Davis will then reopen WLfW development in that event - TBH I'm not sure that they even have any developers now with the relevant expertise to do that.

You only have to look at what has happened to Weatherlink for Mac, which is AFAIK now effectively unusable on recent Macs as a result of Apple removing support for 32-bit apps in recent MacOS versions and with no easy workarounds.

In my book that counts as obsolete, plain and simple, but use a different word if it makes you happy. YMMV but I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable recommending that any new user chooses WLfW as a long-term proposition when there are so many good alternatives from CumulusMX through WiFi Logger/Meteobridge etc to Weatherlink Live and Console depending on your preferences and prejudices. A Meteo-Pi Ethernet Logger plus CumulusMX is probably a good solution if you prefer the traditional wired logger approach.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 07:56:55 AM by johnd »
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Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2023, 06:17:16 AM »
WeatherLink for Windows is far from obsolete...

Which word do you want to use then? Any further development of this program was terminated several years ago by Davis, other than the smallest of bug fixes. Sure, it still works OK (and provided you are happy with the very dated user interface it still works well for its limited set of features - you won't find me as a critic of WLfW functionality).

But sooner or later I suspect that it's probably going to bump up against a Windows or driver update that causes real problems - Microsoft aren't going to stop pushing major Windows updates every few months. And it's pretty doubtful that Davis will then reopen WLfW development in that event - TBH I'm not sure that they even have any developers now with the relevant expertise to do that.

In my book that counts as obsolete, plain and simple, but use a different word if it makes you happy. YMMV but I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable recommending that any new user chooses WLfW as a long-term proposition when there are so many good alternatives from CumulusMX through WiFi Logger/Meteobridge etc to Weatherlink Live and Console depending on your preferences and prejudices. A Meteo-Pi Ethernet Logger plus CumulusMX is probably a good solution if you prefer the traditional wired logger approach.

And that thinking plays right into Davis's lap with an excuse to ditch the Envoy, won't they be loving that. Would appear some really don't understand how some systems are being used and some obviously don't care either.

As for Microsoft, well they are becoming one bad dictatorship and unfortunately some other organisations are just itching to follow suit, no longer do users have a choice in how they run their systems and Win11 will be even worse than Win10 in that regard.

It is way past time that users have a say in how they run their systems, forget all this garbage that most just want to turn it on and let it work and some totally forget that the so many good alternatives are currently alternatives because some companies couldn't be bothered to listen to consumers of the day and now scurrying to close the their own inadequacies and create more layers of locked down, top down control.

The current so called colored console certainly indicates there are not a lot of developers with the relevant expertise to do much at all.

     

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2023, 06:49:19 AM »
It is way past time that users have a say in how they run their systems...

Are you sure that you're not confusing businesses with charities?  :-)  But I'd just make 2 comments:

First, if there was sufficient profit in AWS systems for serious hobbyists then there would be other entrants in the marketplace because it is always competition that drives innovation and making products as flexible as possible for different classes of user. Right now, Davis have no serious competitors in their sector of the market and so they can call the tune. (Let's see what happens to KestrelMet in future, but their current product range is not compelling enough to eat into the Davis market share I suspect.) FWIW I think that Davis have probably read the market right for their typical purchasers (which is not serious weather hobbyists BTW), but let's see what happens.

Second, I'm increasingly convinced that the best choice for hobbyists who want ownership and control of their local weather data is a low-power Linux SBC like a Raspberry Pi running eg CumulusMX or Meteobridge software or - for those with more Linux skills - weewx. This gives you all the control and flexibility that you might ever want. I do think think that the role of full Windows PC's or laptops is receding.
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2023, 01:20:56 PM »
...and the path forward for those of us who have CABLED systems is????????

Offline JRHill

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2023, 01:29:56 PM »
Well, hasn't brought back a bunch o memories. I may go this route and be done with the headaches.

https://www.scientificsales.com/WiFi-Logger2-for-Davis-Vantage-Pro2-Vantage-Vue-p/7950.htm

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2023, 01:39:40 PM »
...and the path forward for those of us who have CABLED systems is????????

Well the 6152C VP2 cabled station remains in production and I'm not aware of any imminent plans to change this. But who knows what 2024 or 2025 might bring? If I had to speculate (and it's purely uninformed speculation) then I suspect that a cabled version of the new 6313 console might appear at some point, but probably not as a top priority for Davis given that the wireless stations outsell the cabled ones by a substantial margin.

Then any of the existing set of legacy loggers obviously remains relevant to 6162C. If you want a fully wired station then there is always the MPE logger (Meteo-Pi Ethernet), as an alternative to the legacy serial or USB loggers.
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2023, 01:58:45 PM »
I was referring to WeatherLink Software, in regard to CABLED VP2 stations. 

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2023, 02:08:27 PM »
I was referring to WeatherLink Software, in regard to CABLED VP2 stations.

Apologies for not being a mind reader. ;-) . But why is the software landscape any different for cabled VP2 stations? Am I missing something? Maybe I am? There is the usual set of solutions like CumulusMX, Weather Display, Meteobridge, weewx or uploads to a cloud platform like weatherlink.com, WU, weathercoud.net etc using an enhanced logger like WiFi logger or MPE.

What is actually the question then? The only upgrade path I know of that could still make use of your existing wlk files is to weatherlink.com, if that might be the question. But not everyone likes the subscription.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 05:04:18 PM by johnd »
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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2023, 04:19:50 PM »
Apologies for not being more clear.  It's just that the alternatives FROM DAVIS are not available.  That is - the additional hardware solutions.  In other words, I can't just buy something from Davis that will move forward.
As you said, perhaps a new model console will eventually come along.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2023, 05:11:32 PM »
There appears a lot of speculation and assumptions going forward with Cabled and Envoy stations in regard future support and any clear directions? This has been emerging ever since the WLIP was dropped and the direction is becoming ever so clearer with every step taken since.

Like if there was any serious consideration for cabled users then it would be have been simple to wack a connection in the 6313 but oh no that just might be too simple and besides ... (insert assumptions and excuses here)       

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2023, 11:51:38 AM »
There appears a lot of speculation and assumptions going forward with Cabled and Envoy stations in regard future support and any clear directions?

Let me just say that a lot of what you want to dismiss as 'speculation and assumptions' is actually based in facts, ie recent statements by senior Davis management. Unfortunately, these statements are not currently in the public domain (or at least not in any way that can be found from searches), so whether you choose to believe me or not is obviously up to you.
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Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2023, 04:40:47 PM »
And we will probably get hit with another "green dot" style fiasco in a coming future of which of course there has never been a real plausible justification for either. Some of us have been joining the "dots" for quite some time  :shock:  and not selective with what we read between the lines
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 04:42:50 PM by Mattk »

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2023, 04:42:33 PM »
And we will probably get hit with another "green dot" style fiasco in a coming future of which of course there has never been a real plausible justification for either. Some of us have been joining the "dots" for quite some time  :shock:

Ever the optimist I see  :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Offline Mattk

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2023, 04:43:51 PM »
And we will probably get hit with another "green dot" style fiasco in a coming future of which of course there has never been a real plausible justification for either. Some of us have been joining the "dots" for quite some time  :shock:

Ever the optimist I see  :grin: :grin: :grin:

Oh yeah and not selective with what we read between the lines  ;) ;) ;)

Offline JRHill

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2023, 05:45:35 PM »
I looked at the Logger 2 and the manual. Also some of the posts here on WXForums in other threads. The Logger2 manual looks to suck for set up and fixin' if needed. Maybe its easier than my impression but I was not impressed. So I think I am leaning toward WeatherLink Live for ease of set up and any problems. Part of the reasoning is the DW - anything I do has to be easy fixed or not happen at all. She is highly capable but she has no patience to learn a bizillion different device configurations and troubleshooting. That is my job to the degree I get any credit  :grin:. The solar is enough and she has little patience for even those devices. Inevitably I went with LifePO4 batteries and that mostly ended maintenance and monitoring except for when to start the evil gasoline generator. That is where I am.

I didn't mean to bring all of this up again. Many of us would like to get into Davis's offices and spice their coffee with mega-hot pepper powder or black beauties to get them off their butt. But we have what the bean counters have determined we will have. For the benefit of my DW, I think its WLL.

Any input?

Offline johnd

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2023, 06:05:07 PM »
If your only important aim is to upload to weatherlink.com then WLL is probably a good choice. WFL2 is a great device and has many other features, but you probably wouldn't use them and so the relative ease-of-use of WLL perhaps wins out.

But I'm bothered about where we came in, which was why Weatherlink for Windows is not uploading properly. MAybe it's a PC problem or maybe an Internet issue. If it's a PC problem then WLL will probably solve that. But if you have bad Internet then perhaps not? But only one way to find out.
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Offline JRHill

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Re: Weatherlink > Data
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2023, 07:01:35 PM »
johnd, I couldn't agree more with the "where we came in" part. WL on the PC has been working fine for years. Nothing has been changed except for the occasional Windows update. I can't correlate this recent issue with the data gaps to any Win update.

The crazy thing is that I can log into WeatherLink.com and the data is uploading and showing. It is current within minutes. But clicking on Data has major gaps and it always begins at 12:30 - 1am. Go to Bulletin and its there but I'm not usually awake at 2am. From when I 1st began this thread the data never back filled. I rebooted the PC and Weatherlink logged it once again. Then not. This is a prime example:
 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

This is not the internet connection, I don't believe. We have had StarLink for a year and couldn't be happier. We have our solar/eqmt reporting to its cloud on a real time basis. There are zero gaps in data but maybe its better at back filling but this is splitting hairs and it doesn't fit. WHAT CHANGED?

This is why I am looking at something different. We are highly reliant on weather data. We are in our own weather system - forecasts are always humourous.

I'm at a loss.

 

anything