Author Topic: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer  (Read 13574 times)

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Offline denodan

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Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« on: October 13, 2010, 02:02:38 PM »
I allready have a cheap Weather Station, that has a USB port and run Cumulus, but since I will be getting a Vantage Vue, seems hooking up to a computer is expensive.

So do they only have a serial port on the Vue? If its a serial port, can you not just buy a serial to USB converter, then run your Software through it?

Why do you have to buy the Davis Data logger? Is it basically just a Serial to USB converter? You can get these much cheaper then what Davis offers and running Cumulus, which is basically free is good software.

Or are you stuck with having to use Davis only logger?

Offline needtrees

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 02:28:06 PM »
I was wondering the same thing before I bought my Vue.  Couldn't find any place that sold just the data logger adapter (USB or Serial), seems it is always packaged with WeatherLink software.  I broke down and got it anyway, even though I'm currently using Weather Display on linux.  It was tough to cough up $130 for an adapter cable.  Since I was considering using linux on some old hardware, I went with the serial adapter.

Here are the cables.  The blue piece is the serial port, the black piece is the data logger.  The are connected with the black cable that looks like a phone cord.


Here is the data logger plugged into the back of my Vue, as you can see it is neither USB or serial, some proprietary interface I'm guessing:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 02:50:01 PM by needtrees »

Offline Garth Bock

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 03:28:35 PM »
The Data Logger is more than just a way to connect the console or Envoy to a computer. It also has memory to store up to 6 months of readings. It is not just a serial or usb interface. I do want to let you know that you reached the first level of " Davis-ness".....is it $130 for the Datalogger with free Weatherlink or $130 for Weatherlink with a free Datalogger? (chicken or the egg LOL !)

Yes it is a proprietary device but some of the less expensive weather stations out there while having a built in serial port do not store data and if your computer is off do not provide a way to recoup the missed data. Also WeatherLink is a great place to get started to learn about monitoring weather, providing data to a service like WeatherUnderground, or your own website and it is easy to set up. After that you can download and try before you buy software like WeatherDisplay or Virtual Weather Station. Both have some really neat add-ons (like realtime weather http://www.weatherbuzz.net/wd/wdlmain.html ). Oh while Cumulus looks like it is "free" it is actually "Donation-ware". If you plan on using it and like it, you can donate to their cause (or drop them some dough so they can afford coffee and donuts) to help them keep improving the software.

Davis VPro2,VWS,WL,VVP,WD,WDL,Cumulus,WV32,VPLive

Offline denodan

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 12:45:42 AM »
M cheapo La Crosse weather station allread does this. Stores the info in the Weather Station for a few months, and when I run it on the computer sends all the data to my computer and is stored in Cumulus, so the data logger does nothing my cheap Weather Station does not already do.

I really think it is Davis's way to get extra money out of people. The Advantage Vue and Pro 2 alleady store data internally, so there is no reason they could not have added a USB port and then the data could have been transfered to the computer no trouble.

The only reason Davis does this, as I said is to make you pay even more money, which I find somewhat disapointing when my cheap Weather Station allready does data logging and uses standard USB port and transfers the Data to Cumulus which keeps track of all my data.

When I connect to my computer what data is in my Weather Station is downloaded to Cumulus, so it's allready data logging without any special interface.

Davis wants you to keep forking out money, which  is why the data logger and software is so expensive.

I am allready running m Weather station in the undergroundweather website, so whatis Davis's dtaa logger going to do that my Weather Station is not allready doing?
Is Davis the only company theat forces people to need there data logger? Seems many are now using USB, or the cheaper ones are now? But all the same am looking forward to getting my new Davis Weather Station.

Offline SLOweather

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 01:16:05 AM »
Huh?

M cheapo La Crosse weather station allread does this. Stores the info in the Weather Station for a few months, and when I run it on the computer sends all the data to my computer and is stored in Cumulus, so the data logger does nothing my cheap Weather Station does not already do.

I really think it is Davis's way to get extra money out of people. The Advantage Vue and Pro 2 alleady store data internally, so there is no reason they could not have added a USB port and then the data could have been transfered to the computer no trouble.

The only reason Davis does this, as I said is to make you pay even more money, which I find somewhat disapointing when my cheap Weather Station allready does data logging and uses standard USB port and transfers the Data to Cumulus which keeps track of all my data.

When I connect to my computer what data is in my Weather Station is downloaded to Cumulus, so it's allready data logging without any special interface.

Davis wants you to keep forking out money, which  is why the data logger and software is so expensive.

I am allready running m Weather station in the undergroundweather website, so whatis Davis's dtaa logger going to do that my Weather Station is not allready doing?
Is Davis the only company theat forces people to need there data logger? Seems many are now using USB, or the cheaper ones are now? But all the same am looking forward to getting my new Davis Weather Station.

Online saratogaWX

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 01:39:36 AM »
M cheapo La Crosse weather station allread does this. Stores the info in the Weather Station for a few months, and when I run it on the computer sends all the data to my computer and is stored in Cumulus, so the data logger does nothing my cheap Weather Station does not already do.

I really think it is Davis's way to get extra money out of people. The Advantage Vue and Pro 2 alleady store data internally, so there is no reason they could not have added a USB port and then the data could have been transfered to the computer no trouble.

The only reason Davis does this, as I said is to make you pay even more money, which I find somewhat disapointing when my cheap Weather Station allready does data logging and uses standard USB port and transfers the Data to Cumulus which keeps track of all my data.

When I connect to my computer what data is in my Weather Station is downloaded to Cumulus, so it's allready data logging without any special interface.

Davis wants you to keep forking out money, which  is why the data logger and software is so expensive.

I am allready running m Weather station in the undergroundweather website, so whatis Davis's dtaa logger going to do that my Weather Station is not allready doing?
Is Davis the only company theat forces people to need there data logger? Seems many are now using USB, or the cheaper ones are now? But all the same am looking forward to getting my new Davis Weather Station.

I think you have some misunderstanding about how the Davis console/Envoy works.
Firstly, the Vantage Vue and Davis Pro 2 stations (the sensor array) does NOT store data.. it merely sends it along to a VP Console or Envoy.  The VP console does contain some memory in order to produce the built-in graphing for various weather data from the sensors, but that built-in memory is not available externally.

That's where the Logger comes in.  This add-on product stores data and provides interface (Serial or USB) to software programs.  You pay for the Logger.. WeatherLink software just comes along with it.

You can choose to stay with your current weather station hardware, but there's no need to rail against Davis due to your misunderstanding of how the Vantage Vue, Vantage Pro, Console and Envoy really work.
Ken True/Saratoga, CA, USA main site: saratoga-weather.org
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Offline killwilly

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 02:13:24 AM »
denodan, my advice to you would be to stick with your "cheapo" weather station and forget the Davis station. You are obviously unable to grasp the concept of running Davis equipment.
Alan >>>>>><br /><br />Hardware:- Davis Vantage Vue<br />Software:-  VWS:14.00 p87. Davis WeatherLink<br />Location:-  Lincolnshire, UK.<br /><br /><br />Wunderground ID,  ILINCOLN15

Online SlowModem

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 02:18:18 AM »
denodan, my advice to you would be to stick with your "cheapo" weather station and forget the Davis station. You are obviously unable to grasp the concept of running Davis equipment.

Actually, he has a point.  It is a price gouge.  The data logger should be an option, not a requirement.  I would have been happier if there had been a way to just hook a cable to console and to the computer without the data logger.  But Davis has you by the pocketbook if you want to hook the console to the computer.

Greg Whitehead
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Offline denodan

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 03:02:18 AM »
denodan, my advice to you would be to stick with your "cheapo" weather station and forget the Davis station. You are obviously unable to grasp the concept of running Davis equipment.
tomg

I am not getting at Davis, but my cheap station has internal memory, as has the Davis, but with my presen station, that internal memor can be transfered to computer, so working as a data logger. Davis could have easliy done the same, with data being about to be transfer data from console to computer.

I am getting a Davis due to being a far morre rebust unit, as my cheap weather station's rain gaudge does not work properly and want a better Weather Station anyway, but do see how it works, when you want to hook your weather station to computer, Davis arre forcing me to pay big money, 1/4 the price again to be about to download data to a logger then the computer,when they could have easily have the internal data trasnferable to PC.

I will use my Davis to record data to PC,  but just a little annoyed they are forcing me to pay big money, when it should have been a simple matter without the big cost. So where do you get the idea I don't understand the concept when my cheap station is doing everything my avis will, but at a cost of only a USB cable. It is a hook Davis uses there own interface and is non standard. I know using a PC to store and look at data really adds a great deal to your weather station, so will use the data logger and  software, but Davis could have made it alot cheaper and easier. Anyway does not La Cosse make things simple by using standard USB and being able to transerfer weather console memory to computer? Afterall your Daivs allready keeps data in the console.

I am not trasing Davis as one reply suggests I am only getting at Davis due to the extra expense needed for a simple operation. M cheap system is doing everything a Davis does for nothing and Cumlus is keeping all my data and my station transers it's inteernal memory info to computer .

Offline denodan

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2010, 03:08:17 AM »
denodan, my advice to you would be to stick with your "cheapo" weather station and forget the Davis station. You are obviously unable to grasp the concept of running Davis equipment.

Actually, he has a point.  It is a price gouge.  The data logger should be an option, not a requirement.  I would have been happier if there had been a way to just hook a cable to console and to the computer without the data logger.  But Davis has you by the pocketbook if you want to hook the console to the computer.


Thanks, Slow Modem, Well put, seems I hit a nerve and was not intended and do see it as price gouging. And do understand the concept of running a Davis. Don't want another La Cosse as reading into it further, want a much better weather Station, and for my budget the Vue was the best choice for me.


Offline killwilly

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2010, 03:14:02 AM »
The point I was making is, life is about choice. There are alternative weather stations with data loggers, for example the OS WMR-200.
Alan >>>>>><br /><br />Hardware:- Davis Vantage Vue<br />Software:-  VWS:14.00 p87. Davis WeatherLink<br />Location:-  Lincolnshire, UK.<br /><br /><br />Wunderground ID,  ILINCOLN15

Offline mackbig

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 07:36:03 AM »
I thought the same thing when I was looking at upgrading from my OS station.  It connected to my pc with just a $10 serial cable.

However its all about choices.  Some may choose to not connect to a pc.  For instance a boat owner using the Vue while sailing may not care about connecting to a pc.  If it was all bundled together Davis would set the Vue price at $560 (instead of $395)  So why should they have to pay an extra $165 for a usb-serial logger built in, then there is the IP version which is $295 (retail prices quoted).

Here's an analogy.  I think every car should have bluetooth handsfree built in.  But some people dont have phones, so do you build several hundred dollars into the price of the car, or offer it as an option?  There are some very cheap cars that have it free, some expensive cars dont, and every variation in between.

But there is no wrong opinion, gouge or not, as long as you have the facts.

But there

Andrew

Andrew - Davis VP2+ 6163, serial weatherlink, wireless anemometer, running Weather Display.  Boltek PCI Stormtracker, Astrogenic Nexstorm, Strikestar - UNI, CWOP CW8618, GrLevel3, (Station 2 OS WMR968, VWS 13.01p09), Windows 7-64

Offline killwilly

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 08:01:26 AM »
The first paragraph of the OP did say that he/she was getting a Vue..." but since I will be getting a Vantage Vue". That is the reason I made the comment. Why buy a Vue to connect to a computer without getting the data logger and cable, it can't be done? So the answer is to look at other makes.

Personally, I wouldn't buy Davis equipment again, but that is another story.

Alan
Alan >>>>>><br /><br />Hardware:- Davis Vantage Vue<br />Software:-  VWS:14.00 p87. Davis WeatherLink<br />Location:-  Lincolnshire, UK.<br /><br /><br />Wunderground ID,  ILINCOLN15

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 10:03:30 AM »
M cheapo La Crosse weather station allread does this. Stores the info in the Weather Station for a few months, and when I run it on the computer sends all the data to my computer and is stored in Cumulus, so the data logger does nothing my cheap Weather Station does not already do.

I really think it is Davis's way to get extra money out of people. The Advantage Vue and Pro 2 alleady store data internally, so there is no reason they could not have added a USB port and then the data could have been transfered to the computer no trouble.

The only reason Davis does this, as I said is to make you pay even more money, which I find somewhat disapointing when my cheap Weather Station allready does data logging and uses standard USB port and transfers the Data to Cumulus which keeps track of all my data.

When I connect to my computer what data is in my Weather Station is downloaded to Cumulus, so it's allready data logging without any special interface.

Davis wants you to keep forking out money, which  is why the data logger and software is so expensive.

I am allready running m Weather station in the undergroundweather website, so whatis Davis's dtaa logger going to do that my Weather Station is not allready doing?
Is Davis the only company theat forces people to need there data logger? Seems many are now using USB, or the cheaper ones are now? But all the same am looking forward to getting my new Davis Weather Station.

What would you like us to do about your problem?

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 11:23:59 AM »
I am actually a bit surprised no one has reverse engineered a logger alternative.  If I was going to do it, I would vampirre onto the data output that the logger uses and send it via Bluetooth to a PC.  A BT-based chip module would cost a couple bucks (literally) to manufacture.  For the record I was not thrilled having to fork out the extra cash for the logger, but I do think it works very well since my operation is not 24/7 so the archive is great; that would cost a bit to embed in the base device.  I'm happy I spent the money on my davis VP2

Offline DaculaWeather

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 11:39:44 AM »
You're still wrong, the data is stored in the data-logger.

How else would you propose to Davis that they create an interface. You want USB, someone else wants serial, someone else wants IP. Should they build all three into the console and make the price go higher? It's MUCH more economical for them to build one console that has different external interfaces than one console that does it all. I'm not sure why that doesn't make sense??? On top of that, they give you software so you don't have to purchase anything else.

Do you know how much it cost them to make a console or a data-logger? Of course not. So how can you sit here and call it gouging when you don't have any of the facts? Davis stations cost more because generally they are better and more reliable than most of the other weather stations, that's why the majority of the people here are running a Davis. You pay for that accuracy and reliability.

Why do you want a Davis?

Steve
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Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 12:01:25 PM »
At the risk of being argumentative, I would submit that the price for the logger is extreme.  By comparison, you can get a Dataq serial logger for under $25 bucks including cable and software!  I know that the cable costs a few dozen cents to make.  The logger itself, produced in China can be had for about 4 bucks.  So Dataq, by comparison, adds value with its acq sw and then makes a tidy profit.  I think the cost model for Davis should be about the same.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 12:02:26 PM »
I am actually a bit surprised no one has reverse engineered a logger alternative.  If I was going to do it, I would vampirre onto the data output that the logger uses and send it via Bluetooth to a PC. 

Just curious:

1.  How would you handle console firmware updates?

2.  Assuming (reasonably) that Davis has included undocumented-and-currently-unused features, how would you handle that?

Offline DaculaWeather

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 12:12:36 PM »
I guess my concern too would be the fact that Davis would probably not support you if you had a problem. Plus, how would other software play with a non-Davis logger?
Steve
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Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2010, 12:37:23 PM »

Just curious:

1.  How would you handle console firmware updates?

2.  Assuming (reasonably) that Davis has included undocumented-and-currently-unused features, how would you handle that?


1. BlueANT or any other BT protocol.  It is after all just another comm path.
2. Firmware update via BT.  See  #1 above.  :)

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2010, 12:39:11 PM »
I guess my concern too would be the fact that Davis would probably not support you if you had a problem. Plus, how would other software play with a non-Davis logger?

The data stream is well documented to allow SW developers to read it (VWS, Cumulus, etc.)  No diff here.  But you are correct that you would not get Davis support for a non-Davis device.  I am still toying with the idea of making my own  900 SS sensors.  They would cost  about a third of Davis' current devices.  And be the size of a small wall wart.

Offline Bushman

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2010, 12:58:46 PM »
I am sure an enterprising person could sniff the console output.  I bet it is a simple serial stream  like the stream from the logger to the PC.

Offline DaculaWeather

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2010, 01:17:56 PM »
I think the bottom line here is that the novice user looking to get a decent weather station generally doesn't have the skill/knowledge/desire to start off by piecing a system together.
Steve
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Offline SLOweather

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2010, 01:30:26 PM »
One of the things that no one has mentioned is that Davis's pricing model also supports an excellent US based Tech Support and parts department. You can call in, and speak with a person who speaks American English, is well versed in the stations and parts and troubleshooting. There is never, to my knowledge, a charge for phone support, and parts have always been in stock when I need them. And I've needed some strange stuff... (VP2 rain cone, console back, tipper assemblies, temp/hum sensors, anny heads, etc.)

Parts pricing has been more than fair as far as I'm concerned. And, they have an exchange policy that knocks a few bucks off the price if you send old parts back.

Their serial communications protocols are pretty well documented, as are most of the formulas and equations for their calculated variables.

They also have NIST traceable sensors if you need that reference.


Offline SLOweather

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Re: Davis 6250 Vantage Vue linking to computer
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2010, 01:40:19 PM »
It seems clear to me that no one in this discussion has any experience in real-world design, engineering and programming for a retail product. Sure, the parts only cost a few bucks, but all of the R and D needs to be amortized over the life of the product. And, Davis does continue to make unannounced improvements and design changes. I just replaced a salt-air damaged temp/hum sensor, and compared the old and new ones. The new one is 2 rev letters newer than the 2 or 3 year old one.

Bushman, I doubt that it's a simple serial protocol between the console and logger. Most or all of those expansion connector pins are connected directly to the CPU. You'll need a bus analyzer to see what's going on. Might be easier to un-pot a WeatherLink and see what components are included there.