Measuring your electrical use

[mackbig]

They will "work" fine if they are both FC (cmd bytes) but since I had both set to real time 1 second, I could not tweak with the config software because they were updating by the time I could issue a command.  I had to unplug one, change it to FD, then I could easily pick which one I had to work on.  Sounds very technical, but basically once you tweak your CH2 on ECM1, and CH1 and CH2 on ECM2 to work with normal CT's and pick your update interval for each ECM you may never need to use the Config software again.

Have fun.

Andrew

Andrew, that was my basic impression on both counts. Looking thru the booklet later, it seems as if it may have been a bench deal and the CMD byte I had assumed was to isolate the 2 from each other but not knowing if they needed to be in sync and just to be sure, I did send Tammy an email.

[linuxfreak]

Here's a new use for a common item, I normally have two on my hip all day long!

http://www.instructables.com/id/2-Carabiner-split-core-AC-transducer/

Thought about it for a minute and had a "why didn't I think about this!" moment. 

George

[Cienega32]

OK - finally got around to some playtime and have the ECMs set & running in the Brultech & the TenHold server software using their E-port on a router. Naturally, they just report line volts & such but the packets are running clean.

I do have one ECM with older firmware - .25 and the other with .26. No surprise with the S/N range - 23xxxx & 20xxxx - no biggie. I had already d/loaded all the utilities.

QUESTION - in the Brultech setup software where you can read the device info I show each unit having "Unit ID:2". Do you have that as well, Andrew?

They both ID correctly in both softwares - just curious...

[mackbig]

I do have one ECM with older firmware - .25 and the other with .26. No surprise with the S/N range - 23xxxx & 20xxxx - no biggie. I had already d/loaded all the utilities.

Cool, sounds like you are on your way.  1.025 is not bad, its still new enough to do the command byte thing (not that you need to)  My old unit had 1.018 which was incompatible with that function.

"Unit ID:2" does not ring a bell with me.  The only brultech software I used was the IA software.  And that was just to flash the firmware, set the cmd byte to FD, and set the CH's (2, 1,2)

Other than that its all in the tenECMserver.

I did use the etherport config, and the CT calculator as well, but those arent really related to the servers once running.

I can pop in using the IA software tonight and see if it gives a unitid anywhere.

Andrew

QUESTION - in the Brultech setup software where you can read the device info I show each unit having "Unit ID:2". Do you have that as well, Andrew?

They both ID correctly in both softwares - just curious...

[mackbig]

That is pretty funny. $2 if you have a multimeter I guess.   I am pretty nervous in there attaching real spit CT's on 200amps, not sure I would want to clamp on that 1 cent aluminum carabiner from China.... 

Andrew

Here's a new use for a common item, I normally have two on my hip all day long!
http://www.instructables.com/id/2-Carabiner-split-core-AC-transducer/
Thought about it for a minute and had a "why didn't I think about this!" moment. 
George

[Sigdigit]

Making ME nervous thinking of going near that 200 amp lead.  Looking forward to your next post so we know you didn't fry yourself!

[graculus]

That is pretty funny. $2 if you have a multimeter I guess.   I am pretty nervous in there attaching real spit CT's on 200amps, not sure I would want to clamp on that 1 cent aluminum carabiner from China....  

Andrew

It certainly is pretty funny. The permeability of aluminum is very similar to that of air, you could just wind a slinky of insulated wire (maybe around a length of plastic tube) and it would be just as effective and a heck of a lot safer. The only commenter who knows the correct way to use a current transformer is current in/current out is completely ignored   Just goes to show that it's easy to find a lot of unchallenged bad information out there.

[Cienega32]

Just a little info on the tenECMserver software for reference:

It seems that the S/N of the ECM is a bit too long  for proper acknowledgment but dropping the first number - the "2" - when giving the ECM IDs in the 'Options' will let it find the device(s) and report to main screen. I guess it's limited to a 16-bit field.

I don't know if it's been mentioned here before but I will for future reference...

[CNYWeather]

Making ME nervous thinking of going near that 200 amp lead.  Looking forward to your next post so we know you didn't fry yourself!

That's kinda why mine is still in the box to this point 

[mackbig]

Just do the split core ones at the beginning of you session while you are fresh, then close up that part of the box.

I took some pix the other day before I sealed her up.
http://www.mackweather.com/wxpixhydro.php

I came upstairs after attaching last few CT's, then proceeded to replace some blown light bulbs (unlrelated), saw a flash outside, and a boom.  mild T-storm snuck up....  few more booms.  Thought great, I was downstairs inside my panel, now I am on a stool holding on to the wires for my halogen pot lights... I should take a break.

Andrew

Making ME nervous thinking of going near that 200 amp lead.  Looking forward to your next post so we know you didn't fry yourself!

That's kinda why mine is still in the box to this point 

[CNYWeather]

Yeah Andrew. I was thinking about doing the big ones first. Yours look pretty small
compared to here. 

Probably a weekend project. I have a GFI I need to replace too so I can do it when
the power is out also.

[Cienega32]

RE: Brultech and TenHolder software -


NICE! 


 

[Cienega32]

OK Andrew - do [you] use the tenholdcharts across a network? I can't seem to get any results from another machine. It points to the database across the network but can't seem to find or open it. The charts work well on the local machine with the DB and teholdserver software running but nada from any other point.

I'm also having a problem with that FireFox toolbar - can't seem to find the data. That I'm not worried about but I would like to see some charts from other machines   .

[Cienega32]

Making ME nervous thinking of going near that 200 amp lead.  Looking forward to your next post so we know you didn't fry yourself!

Not a problem anywhere but I do have an outside "Service Disconnect" breaker in front of the leads to the panel's main breakers. That removed 99.999% of any concerns for me.

I started late so getting it wrapped up before the sun went down WAS a concern. I had each of the 20 CTs on a wire and the main CTs tied into the unmounted ECMs by the time I had the flashlite out.

I took some pictures along the way and haven't gotten to the finishing touches yet but I have most of my channels up & running and the ECMs are mounted and xmitting thru the DD-WRTed router, using it as a bridge.

The thing that saved me the most time was getting those numbered stick-on wire tags and putting them on each end of all the CTs - the numbers matching the breaker numbers. Only a few didn't get their own CT.

Then I separated odd from even and went to town, starting with stringing each bundle out of the panel and thru the wall and leaving the CTs dangling in front. I used all 20 of them so the alternating of CT flow was easy enough in my panel with every other breaker sitting on the same power leg. I did the Split-200s last.

After I had the CT leads strung back out of the wall and tied to their respective panel-side branch assignments, I fired the panel up (with all breakers still off) for a smoke test. It failed - no smoke! Anyway, from there, I mounted the ECMs and I tied each CT (or grouping) to an ECM channel assignment (starting with the fridge and the garage lites  ) and fired up each breaker along the way. Being the house is fully off-grid, it's a good time to recheck your branch circuit maps as you trip each one on.

I have two exit holes with each side of the breakers using it's own hole. Odds to the left and evens to the right. Most of the breakers (or groups) that I want on their own channels are from one side or the other so most odds have their own ECM and same with the evens. I felt it would be helpful to me in the future so I could just look at the breaker map on the panel door and know which ECM was serving what. I do have one or two that "cross over" but the breaker map gets around that little glitch.

Before I started, I had also mapped out what group was to be on whichever channel with each panel-door map "descriptor" followed by the breaker number it was. With the number-tagged CT leads, I just picked and pulled each channel grouping from the bundle and screwed them down.

It went very smooth but the 3 things that made that happen so smoothly were the outside Service Disconnect breaker, numbering each CT to match its breaker number and knowing what went where on the ECM end with a "channel mapping" already laid out.

Turns out I "need" 4 more Micro-40s (I meant to order them originally) and I'm already thinking about a third ECM...

Right now, the panel cover is still off, I need to sweeten up & tuck away the excess lead lengths on the CTs on the wall side and finish mounting the other hardware (power strip, router, EthePort). Drawing up an ECM channel map I can do at half-time tomorrow.

Other than that, it's a wonderful thing. It ain't my long-awaited BOLTEK but it's probably just as much fun...

[mackbig]

Pat,
The charts program works from any one of my other computers.  I have installed it on 3 other laptops on the network.  However I have only viewed the realtime data.  Even though it says it cant find the database upon launch it should do real time by default.  My primary pc has the actual dbllogger program on it, so I use that one for historical charting.

But you should be able to view the logged data if you browse to the dbl file on your main pc, assuming that it is shared on your network.

I think you need to use brultech's own "ecm server" software to use the firefox toolbar.  I loaded it on my mac way back, and could not get it to work.

Andrew

OK Andrew - do use the tenholdcharts across a network? I can't seem to get any results from another machine. It points to the database across the network but can't seem to find or open it. The charts work well on the local machine with the DB and teholdserver software running but nada from any other point.

I'm also having a problem with that FireFox toolbar - can't seem to find the data. That I'm not worried about but I would like to see some charts from other machines  .

[mackbig]

Pat,
Nice and detailed write-up

I definitely did it more piecemeal.  Mostly because I only had 5 aux channels to play with.  I guess I did not follow the first rule in the manual (have a qualified electrician install the micro ct's)  But I also never actually turned off the power.  I turned off each breaker as I connected the CT, and sometimes I did the one above and below if it was tight.  Probably not the smartest was to do it.... 

And for your Boltek comment. The brultech maybe more fun.  While I am happy I have one, the novelty of it did not last too long.  No regrets, but once it was all setup, and tied into my site, I found I did not play with it too much after the first several storms.   Still think GR3 is a better first step (and much cheaper)  Virtual storm chasing all over America from the comfort of your pc.

Andrew

[Cienega32]

Nope - not me. Panel needs to be de-energized before I start pulling breaker wires. Besides having no juice to worry about anywhere in the can, if I did it piece-meal, I would never get it done. I was going to do that and just get the ones that meant the most but I figured "Why?" - just let me tear it down and get it all in one shot.


Anyway - here's a few pics of the journey. The pics are only 60k each or so but if it's a problem, I'll change them over to links:

The CTs at the top of the panel and the little black box on the bottom are the TED device that I've been using.
The hole below the panel came with the house. Must be from when they ran the pool sub-panel out:


After stringing the leads thru the top hole and having them all hanging-


Panel side finished and all secured:


This was a box I found at Lowe's. Below the open part is another area with almost the same space.
It's more curved but I'm hoping it has enough space for the slack wires -


I used a network box cover with two holes in it and have the hardware tacked up and running and called it a nite -


Cleaning up the wiring a bit -


Damn near got it all to fit in that box! The main Splits are just too long so I'll tie them down to the wood.
Got the Comm & Power pretty much in place. Just need to square up the ECMs, clean up the ECM power cords and finish securing the CT leads. I only had an 18" piece of plywood laying around so I'll probably redo the backboard when I get the other CTs and maybe get a bigger box. The wiring is pretty crunched into that one.



But - almost done and close enough not to worry about this weekend. 2 more channels to fill, maybe change around 1 or 2 others, tack down the leads and finito. I need to get a better power strip with surge. Maybe I'll hang my small UPS up there instead.

That TenHolder server S/W sure puts things into perspective...

[tomcj2]

Are these systems approved and certified by CSA, UL, or another approved agency? I am surprised that the wires attached to the CT's do not have to be in conduit when they leave the panel.
What type of wire is used ?

[Cienega32]

You know, I didn't really look at that or think about it. I would imagine that they would be listed as such.

The CTs are FCC approved and after Googling around just now, it seems they spent some working on that approval; delaying the release of this ECM-1240 package last year.

I'm pretty sure that having strain reliefs and/or bushings (as stated in the manual and as found in my own install) at the point of exit would suffice and satisfy any NEC for these types of devices at the panel.

  This isn't an extortion attempt is it? 

[mackbig]

The wires on the CT's are 300V UL1007.  I dont think they would need to be in conduit, unless maybe you were doing a behind the wall or riser run to another location.

The transformers all have the UL listing on them.  There is mention on a promo pdf I found that says either than certain ct's are UL listed or have the following footnotes.  ¹ Our older stock may not have the UL/c mark, although this parts is now UL/c
listed. ² Our current stock does not have the UL/c mark. Future production with have
the UL/c mark.

Andrew

Are these systems approved and certified by CSA, UL, or another approved agency? I am surprised that the wires attached to the CT's do not have to be in conduit when they leave the panel.
What type of wire is used ?

[Cienega32]

Pat,
The charts program works from any one of my other computers.  I have installed it on 3 other laptops on the network.  However I have only viewed the realtime data.  Even though it says it cant find the database upon launch it should do real time by default.  My primary pc has the actual dbllogger program on it, so I use that one for historical charting.

But you should be able to view the logged data if you browse to the dbl file on your main pc, assuming that it is shared on your network.

I think you need to use brultech's own "ecm server" software to use the firefox toolbar.  I loaded it on my mac way back, and could not get it to work.

Andrew

Yes, the Charts module works fine. It finally dawned on me that I keep my laptop, which is where I was trying Charts, in "road-trip mode" so I put the Charts on another box and it fired right up.    I seem to be using that head banging icon a lot lately...

The FFox toolbar I'm giving up on right now and will probably hook my TED back on the main feeders (if I can squeeze the CTs in there) for the time being.

I guess the TenHolderCharts is still in "One ECM mode only"?

Do you use HomeSeerer or any of the automation devices?

[mackbig]

cool

Yes, the Charts module works fine. It finally dawned on me that I keep my laptop, which is where I was trying Charts, in "road-trip mode" so I put the Charts on another box and it fired right up.    I seem to be using that head banging icon a lot lately...

Yes, that is his number 1 priority right now.  But its also the most complex thing he needs to update.  I believe also he is throwing out that design and attempting to create in a local intranet type web based delivery.  Obviously he has to expand the dbllogger too at the same time.

I guess the TenHolderCharts is still in "One ECM mode only"?

No, my only home auto is x10 activehome. It controls some accent lighting, but I have dont even have the controller hooked up to the pc right now.  I just connect to update the macros and timers every once in a while.

Do you use HomeSeerer or any of the automation devices?

[Cienega32]

OK - then I guess that you're using the CSV data to present both ECMs online and any other presentations you use?

I have to play with the Brultech dashboard later to see what that looks like.


I also just noticed that I'm using the Micro-40 whites as common (should be blacks)... I guess I stopped reading after seeing the main Split hookup. Not a biggie but it annoys me now (and once again ->  )

[mackbig]

Yup, just wrote a simple php parser then ammended when I got the second ECM, and Tenware changed the file layout exactly as I requested.

OK - then I guess that you're using the CSV data to present both ECMs online and any other presentations you use?

Are they reporting the correct wattage?  Might not need to change anything if it looks ok.  The black common thing is only an issue if the phase was done correctly.  If perhaps you got the phase reversed then white as common is correct....  worst case you just need to flip em.

I also just noticed that I'm using the Micro-40 whites as common (should be blacks)... I guess I stopped reading after seeing the main Split hookup. Not a biggie but it annoys me now (and once again ->  )

[Cienega32]

It's not a problem as they're all in phase with each other relative to the two main legs. And they report the basics fine, as would be expected. It just irks me that I missed it. The pics show the primary splits that way and staring at all my whites on the neutral bar in the panel... well, I just went with the flow! 

I'm going to swap them around just for sake of text-based continuity and I want to change up a few channel assignments as well.

Have you played with their CT Resistor utility at all? I know you were working on that portion of the ECMs but was wondering if the utility itself gave you good accuracy.