Author Topic: Can send remote Temp/Humidity Sensor Data to CWOP instead of primary ISS sensor  (Read 681 times)

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Offline fkapp

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I am in the process of planning station upgrade from my Weather Monitor 2 which has seen it day  :sad:
I am trying to plan optimal siting for sensors for vantage pro 2 thinking of getting which raises this question.
Is it possible to send data from a remote temp/humidity sensor to CWOP instead of the primary temp/humidity sensor on the ISS?
If so how do I do this?

Thanks as work through how to make this all work
Frank

Offline johnd

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No is the broad answer I suspect, though someone else may know better. I'm not aware that any of the standard software options for uploading to 3rd-party platforms like CWOP allow remapping as to which sensor's data goes where.

Perhaps more accurately one could say that there's no reason in principle why it couldn't be done but you need to write or find some software that does allow this specific remapping. Don't overlook that supplementary temp values received by a standard VP2 console are only going to have a resolution of 1F (ie and and not 0.1F), though using a Weatherlink Live receiver would deliver 0.1F resolution on supplementary T sensors.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 07:36:26 AM by johnd »
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Offline galfert

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Meteobridge allows doing this with one simple click.

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Offline johnd

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Meteobridge allows doing this with one simple click.

OK that's a neat feature. But presumably you're still stuck with the limitation on temperature resolution (if that matters to you) unless you're using an MB Pro Red?
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Offline galfert

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You can use any Meteobridge except NANO. Meteobridge Standard, Pro red, and Pro black would all work if you use it with a WeatherLink Live.
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Offline johnd

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You can use any Meteobridge except NANO. Meteobridge Standard, Pro red, and Pro black would all work if you use it with a WeatherLink Live.

Yes, I'd forgotten about WLL but let me just express that in my own words and see if we agree: There are two configurations that WILL work:

1. MB Pro Red would be OK because it receives direct from the transmitters.

2. Any MB configuration that sources data from WLL would also be OK (because WLL can see 0.1F data).

But in other MB configurations the 1F resolution issue is there.
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Offline galfert

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Yes, agreed sort of. But if you already have a WLL then a MB Pro Red would be a bad investment. I'd get a MB Pro Black or MB Standard instead.

But the part I disagree on is I think the MB Pro Red can only receive data via RF from just the ISS and not from extra transmitters. So that isn't a solution it seems. You can still use the MB Pro Red to get this extra sensor from the WLL though. But again...bad investment because a MB Pro Black would do the exact same thing at a better price.

MB Pro Red only makes sense for those that don't have or want any other Davis console and no other logger including no WLL. If you want MB Pro features then the MB Pro Black is the same thing with the RF receiver capability.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 10:36:55 AM by galfert »
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Offline johnd

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Yes, agreed sort of. But if you already have a WLL then a MB Pro Red would be a bad investment. I'd get a MB Pro Black or MB Standard instead.

But the part I disagree on is I think the MB Pro Red can only receive data via RF from just the ISS and not from extra transmitters. So that isn't a solution it seems. You can still use the MB Pro Red to get this extra sensor from the WLL though. But again...bad investment because a MB Pro Black would do the exact same thing at a better price.

MB Pro Red has the same receive functionality as WLL (ie any mix of transmitters on all 8 channels).
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Offline galfert

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Yes, agreed sort of. But if you already have a WLL then a MB Pro Red would be a bad investment. I'd get a MB Pro Black or MB Standard instead.

But the part I disagree on is I think the MB Pro Red can only receive data via RF from just the ISS and not from extra transmitters. So that isn't a solution it seems. You can still use the MB Pro Red to get this extra sensor from the WLL though. But again...bad investment because a MB Pro Black would do the exact same thing at a better price.

MB Pro Red has the same receive functionality as WLL (ie any mix of transmitters on all 8 channels).

Hmmm... Are you possitve? I thought MB Pro Red could only receive via RF from one transmitter (the ISS).

UPDATE: see post below. Yes it MB Pro Red can receive via RF multiple transmitter data. With some limitations (see below).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 11:20:43 AM by galfert »
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Offline fkapp

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Guys this is confusing. Is it possible to use the remote temp sensor as the primary with weatherlink and send to CWOP?
Or do I need to go a different route? The 1 degree limitiation is not ideal either.  may be running a long cable from the ISS to temp/humidity sensor maybe

Thanks
Frank

Offline galfert

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Guys this is confusing. Is it possible to use the remote temp sensor as the primary with weatherlink and send to CWOP?

Not without adding hardware to your setup. I've recommended to get a Meteobridge to do what you want. No limitation of 1 degree with a Meteobridge Pro Black or Meteobridge Standard since they'd be getting the data from the WLL. You can also get a WeatherBridge from Ambient which is a Meteobridge standard with another name.
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Offline galfert

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Yes, agreed sort of. But if you already have a WLL then a MB Pro Red would be a bad investment. I'd get a MB Pro Black or MB Standard instead.

But the part I disagree on is I think the MB Pro Red can only receive data via RF from just the ISS and not from extra transmitters. So that isn't a solution it seems. You can still use the MB Pro Red to get this extra sensor from the WLL though. But again...bad investment because a MB Pro Black would do the exact same thing at a better price.

MB Pro Red has the same receive functionality as WLL (ie any mix of transmitters on all 8 channels).

Hmmm... Are you possitve? I thought MB Pro Red could only receive via RF from one transmitter (the ISS).

Okay I've researched it. Yes you are correct. Limitation exists though that you can't calibrate temperature with extra sensors when using MB Pro Red.

This is not an issue for OP using WLL to MB.
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Offline johnd

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Hmmm... Are you possitve? I thought MB Pro Red could only receive via RF from one transmitter (the ISS).

Well, I thought that MBPR did, but I can't recall ever having set up eg a multi-ISS configuration with MBPR so ICBW. It's conceivable this is a confusion between hardware and software. IIRC MBPR contains Meteostick which can definitely receive any mix of up to 8 transmitters. But maybe this full functionality hasn't been carried through to the MBPR software but only to the MeteoHub software, which could be fed from a Meteostick unit.

However, as I read the information at eg https://www.meteobridge.com/wiki/index.php/Select_Station in the section headed 'Meteostick and Red Cap Meteobridge PRO' it does imply to me that any mix of transmitters (eg multiple anemometers as one example) is allowed.

Boris would be able to advise for sure of course.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 11:48:21 AM by johnd »
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Offline johnd

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Guys this is confusing.

Isn't it just  :-)

Quote
Is it possible to use the remote temp sensor as the primary with weatherlink and send to CWOP?

No, as i said above, AFAIK there is no simple/standard solution to what you want to do, especially if you want 0.1F resolution. That's why we're having to think of workarounds, none of which are that straightforward.

Quote
Or do I need to go a different route? ... may be running a long cable from the ISS to temp/humidity sensor maybe

That's probably the most pragmatic option. Remember that you can buy a bare VP2 T/H sensor with a 25' cable attached (7346.221), though that's obviously more $$$ to lay out.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 11:35:03 AM by johnd »
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Offline fkapp

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Do you guys think metobridge is better than WLL?
Havent used either to this point so looking for best recommendation to push data to CWOP, WU, and also to be able to graph and track historical data.

Thanks
Frank

Offline johnd

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Well, it's not necessarily either/or. If you have both then you can use both and configure the uploads as you feel best suits your purposes. The MB can be taking a data feed from WLL while WLL continues to upload to weatherlink.com.

Weatherlink.com is arguably the best cloud platform there is at present. It's still not all things to all people, especially if you don't want to pay the Pro subscription for handling the historic data. (There is still quite a list of further features to be added over the coming months and years and I guess it will never stop evolving.) But it's certainly got a reasonably good smartphone app and several other positive features.

But to get back to where you came in: MB may well be a better option for handling some types of data forwarding eg to CWOP or WU or wherever. And, overall, all i can easily say is that if you have both then set both up and let them run side by side. You'll quickly decide which you prefer for different tasks.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 12:10:07 PM by johnd »
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Offline galfert

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I think it is worth further discussing the original intent of this thread. I came into the conversation only to say yes it is possible to reassign an extra sensor as the main outdoor sensor (with a MB). But just because you can does not mean it is the best solution. I can see some drawbacks in doing this with a Meteobridge that allows this....

Namely the solution requires one of two solutions as johnd and I have proposed.

  • Meteobridge feeding off WLL data on the local network.
  • Meteobridge Pro Red working by itself getting data via RF directly from sensor transmitters.

The drawbacks I see of a reassigned sensor to be the main are the following:

  • Using Meteobridge Pro Red and campuring data via RF means you can't calibrate the temperature. Currently a limitation that might go away if the Meteobridge software gets this feature added.
  • Using only Meteobridge Pro Red (without WLL) means not being able to send data to Weatherlink.com.
  • using WLL with a Meteobridge lets you send to Weatherlink.com and CWOP directly and change the default sensor for CWOP and lets you calibrate the sensor via the WLL before the Meteobridge gets the data. BUT this means that your CWOP temperature will be different from your Weatherlink.com data because the WLL continues to report to Weatherlink.com on the default temperature sensor and extra sensors are just that extra sensors.

It is because of this last bullet point that I question even doing this in the first place. I've never seen an install where the ISS temperature is insufficient to be considered good enough to be the default outdoor temperature. You can separate the temperature radiation shield from the ISS and it provides some cabled extention capability. As johnd mentioned you can even get a longer cable version to connect to the ISS and it stays as the default ISS sensor. I think either of these solutions is the best approach rather than messing with default sensors on the Meteobridge.

I'm not trying to talk you out of Meteobridge. Having a Meteobridge gives you a lot of benefits like improving data upload capability to Weather Underground with just seconds of live data upload. You can send data to CWOP directly every 5 minutes instead of being limited 15 minutes via Weatherlink.com. A Meteobridge also let's you upload to a bunch of other online services to name just a few: PWSweather, WeatherCloud, Metoffice, AWEKAS....and many others. And you can upload to your own personal web site.

But Meteobridge is not the only option to gain all those upload capabilities. You can also run the following software that will all get data from the WLL. These are Cumulus, Weather-Display, and WeeWx. You can run anyone or all of them on Windows, MacOS, or Linux (which can be a Raspberry Pi).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 01:58:31 PM by galfert »
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Offline fkapp

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Thanks for all the help with understanding options.
Agree that a good FARS and cable extension is the most ideal route.
The above discussion now has me researching if I should go the WLL or Meto bridge route.
If I do go Meto bridge route what is the recommended one.  I dont have budget to do a WLL and a meto bridge so this is an either or for me at this time.

Thanks
Frank

Offline fkapp

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Will I have the same issue if I use a remote sensor suite for my anemometer that will send wireless to the WLL?
As in will I need a meteobridge to report this as my primary anemometer?
Driver to this is I have a solution to locating my ISS and temp sensor where wont need to run cable, but now anemometer will be some distance away ^~150ft.
Can i run a cable yes with conduit etc underground, but wireless feed from remote anemometer is easier, but not sure how this will affect my station SW feed/ setup needed.

Thanks guys as weigh out all options
Frank

Offline galfert

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Will I have the same issue if I use a remote sensor suite for my anemometer that will send wireless to the WLL?
As in will I need a meteobridge to report this as my primary anemometer?
No, you won't have a problem. No need for Meteobridge for this.

Quote

Driver to this is I have a solution to locating my ISS and temp sensor where wont need to run cable, but now anemometer will be some distance away ^~150ft.
Can i run a cable yes with conduit etc underground, but wireless feed from remote anemometer is easier, but not sure how this will affect my station SW feed/ setup needed.
Just get the wireless transmitter for the anemometer. That is the preferred solution. It won't be any trouble at all.
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Offline fkapp

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okay. just to  make sure I understand. If i use the wireless transmitter for the anemometer and WLL, I will be able to report the remote/wireless anemometer with the rest of the data (temp, rain, etc) from my ISS with Weatherlink Live to CWOP without  a Meteobridge?
Want to double check because it seemed after the discussion above that if you want to mix remote sensors and the ISS meteobridge is required. But now it seems is not the case with the anemometer. I really want to purchase the right Davis gear to facilitiate this without the need of a meteobridge. avoiding a cable run would be great, so why want to double check as the wireless remote anemometer would be great way if this will work

Thanks
Frank

Offline galfert

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okay. just to  make sure I understand. If i use the wireless transmitter for the anemometer and WLL, I will be able to report the remote/wireless anemometer with the rest of the data (temp, rain, etc) from my ISS with Weatherlink Live to CWOP without  a Meteobridge?

Yes, but Meteobridge would be better for CWOP because it would report directly every 5 minutes from your network without needing to uploaded to Weatherlink.com to which then passes your data to CWOP. With Meteobridge you still want the WLL to upload to Weatherlink.com but you then don't need Weatherlink.com to upload to CWOP which only uploads every 15 minutes.

Quote

Want to double check because it seemed after the discussion above that if you want to mix remote sensors and the ISS meteobridge is required. But now it seems is not the case with the anemometer. I really want to purchase the right Davis gear to facilitiate this without the need of a meteobridge. avoiding a cable run would be great, so why want to double check as the wireless remote anemometer would be great way if this will work

The Meteobridge was not a solution to mix sensors, but rather to change a default sensor. We've determined that is not the best solution to change a default sensor. You no longer need to change the default sensor. 99.99% of those that get a Meteobridge don't get one to change default sensors. Rather you get a Meteobridge for the multitude of places that it lets you upload data to.

One of the best Davis station configurations to have is a Davis VP2 with a WLL, because the WLL allows you to expand the capabilities to add extra hardware/software so that you can do more. The WLL lets you add Meteobridge, Cumulus, Weather-Display, and WeeWx, and you can try them all out at the same time.  Therefore to start just get a Davis VP2 and get the WLL as it will not be a wasted investment. Get the anemometer transmitter so that your siting can be the best it can be for your situation. Then enjoy. Once you get used to the capabilities this setup has to offer then you can explore or consider expanding and doing more. Nothing will go to waste.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 10:20:56 PM by galfert »
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Offline fkapp

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When I get the anemometer transmitter, do I set the DIP switches to be the same as the ISS console?
Reading and watching how to videos I believe this needs to be set to dip switch 3= on = station 2?
If I do this, will I be able to use W#.LL to upload data to CWOP for both the ISS and the Anemometer Transmitter without Meteobridge?
It looks like if pay the $3.95/mth fee I can upload data to CWOP every 5 min? see reference to 15 min above so is why I am asking. (not sure if the frequency is really 15min vs the advertised possible 5 min).

Thanks again for all the help so get the needed things to enjoy quickly once ordered :-)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 02:10:35 PM by fkapp »

Offline johnd

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On a wireless VP2 you have 8 channels available; each transmitter must be set to use a different channel. You configure the console or eg WLL to look for appropriate data on each active channel. It's best to start at #1 and work up from there. The DIP settings for each channel are shown in the manuals (or indeed for WLL also online).

If you use WLL and a separate anemometer transmitter then you need to tell WLL that the anemometer transmitter is the primary anemometer. This is all explained in the instructions.

You pay the wl.com subscription on an annual basis so it's around $48pa.
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