Author Topic: Raspberry Pi Questions  (Read 831 times)

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Offline PSL

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Raspberry Pi Questions
« on: August 19, 2019, 11:50:45 AM »
Hi,
I'm interested in the Raspberry Pi. I primarily want to use it to learn as well as send my data from the Atlas to other places besides WU. Currently I upload via the Access to WU and have no problems. I just would like to perhaps have more capabilities.

I've been looking at the various Pi kits and would like to know if one brand kit is better than the other? How much RAM do I really need? Basically, which one of the kits should I buy based on my intended use? I'm assuming that being a NOOB to the Rasperry Pi, I'd be better off with a complete kit rather than individual components. From my preliminary searching, it seems like the new Pi 4 may be the way to go. I have had some linux experience, but that was probably 5 - 10 years ago.

Thanks for any assistance.

-- Paul 

Offline txweather.org

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2019, 11:54:22 AM »
Hi,
I'm interested in the Raspberry Pi. I primarily want to use it to learn as well as send my data from the Atlas to other places besides WU. Currently I upload via the Access to WU and have no problems. I just would like to perhaps have more capabilities.

I've been looking at the various Pi kits and would like to know if one brand kit is better than the other? How much RAM do I really need? Basically, which one of the kits should I buy based on my intended use? I'm assuming that being a NOOB to the Rasperry Pi, I'd be better off with a complete kit rather than individual components. From my preliminary searching, it seems like the new Pi 4 may be the way to go. I have had some linux experience, but that was probably 5 - 10 years ago.

Thanks for any assistance.

-- Paul 

Simple answer. Get a Pi 4 :D
There is several advantages of using a 4. RAM been one of them and thats a major plus, Also the separation of the BUS and 1Gige Ethernet.

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Offline PSL

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2019, 12:13:07 PM »
Hi,
I'm interested in the Raspberry Pi. I primarily want to use it to learn as well as send my data from the Atlas to other places besides WU. Currently I upload via the Access to WU and have no problems. I just would like to perhaps have more capabilities.

I've been looking at the various Pi kits and would like to know if one brand kit is better than the other? How much RAM do I really need? Basically, which one of the kits should I buy based on my intended use? I'm assuming that being a NOOB to the Rasperry Pi, I'd be better off with a complete kit rather than individual components. From my preliminary searching, it seems like the new Pi 4 may be the way to go. I have had some linux experience, but that was probably 5 - 10 years ago.

Thanks for any assistance.

-- Paul 

Simple answer. Get a Pi 4 :D
There is several advantages of using a 4. RAM been one of them and thats a major plus, Also the separation of the BUS and 1Gige Ethernet.

Thanks for your response.

Offline Aussie Susan

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2019, 10:58:41 PM »
Not to disagree (for initial development you can never have enough CPU and RAM) but the RPi4 does run hotter and takes more power than some of the older models.
What I'd recommend is to get an RPi4 and build up whatever you want on that. Then look at what the CPU and memory utilisation are like and see if an older model will do the trick - they generally run cooler and take less power.
Depending on how you intend to use the device, these might be useful considerations.
You can then use the RPi4 for the next project....
Regardless of which device you get, spend a bit of time looking at ways to reduce/eliminate writes to the SD card as this can be the 'archillies heel' of the system, especially if you want it to be running unattended for a long time. (I have a RPi Zero W that monitors my weather station and acts as a web server - it has been running for a number of years without a problem as I have the data stored on a NAS drive and the logs etc. are all written to memory disk; virtually no writign to the SD card at all.)
Susan

Offline PSL

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 06:30:02 AM »
Not to disagree (for initial development you can never have enough CPU and RAM) but the RPi4 does run hotter and takes more power than some of the older models.
What I'd recommend is to get an RPi4 and build up whatever you want on that. Then look at what the CPU and memory utilisation are like and see if an older model will do the trick - they generally run cooler and take less power.
Depending on how you intend to use the device, these might be useful considerations.
You can then use the RPi4 for the next project....
Regardless of which device you get, spend a bit of time looking at ways to reduce/eliminate writes to the SD card as this can be the 'archillies heel' of the system, especially if you want it to be running unattended for a long time. (I have a RPi Zero W that monitors my weather station and acts as a web server - it has been running for a number of years without a problem as I have the data stored on a NAS drive and the logs etc. are all written to memory disk; virtually no writign to the SD card at all.)
Susan

Thanks for your thoughts. I have read that the RPi4 does run a bit hotter and requires more power than older models. If I go that route, I plan on getting a complete starter kit with a decent case that has a cooling fan. At the present time, I mainly want to use it for my weather station so I may rethink this and go for an earlier generation unit. I'll do more research before I leap into this. Thanks again.

Online nincehelser

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 08:54:27 AM »
Hotter, yes!

I haven't done any measurements, but just sitting idle it gets surprisingly hot compared to earlier Pis.

I'd almost consider stepping back down to an earlier model rather than using a fan.

Anyway, I'm letting mine run without heatsinks or fan just to see how things go long-term.

Offline txweather.org

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 09:01:41 AM »
Going to an earlier version makes no sense.... The thing still uses less than 12v! 5 V @ 3 A. This is what your USB C phones chargers are.  People tend over react over small things. This Pi is more powerful so yes is going to require more power...A whooping .5A.... wow...LOL

I have 2 of them and yeas they run hotter but this is to be expected. More power = more heat.

And yes lets not talk about waffle and nm size because it does not apply to this form factor :)

At the end get what you think fits your project. :)

Good luck!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 09:05:29 AM by txweather.org »

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Offline PSL

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2019, 05:52:32 AM »
Thanks to all who responded. I now have a pretty good sense of what to purchase. I am leaning toward an RPi 4 kit. I will look for one that has a decent cooling fan in the case as heat does seem to be a factor. It appears that most of the online retailers are out of stock on many of the kits.

Offline pfletch101

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2019, 04:30:52 PM »
There is nothing that you want to do that will be better done by a Pi 4 than by a 3B or 3B+, and the 4 runs much hotter - if you use a 4, you will need to use either a very open case plus a good heatsink on the processor chip, a fan blowing through a somewhat open case, or a case like the Flirc case, which acts like a (relatively) huge heat sink. I would get one of the older models - particularly the 3B - which will run, doing everything you want to do,  in a regular case without getting overheated. A 4 is overkill for most people, who want to use a Pi as an 'appliance' or for learning. I have one in my 'collection', but it is going to be a while before I find something I need it for!  :-)
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Online nincehelser

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Offline Theo

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2019, 11:33:29 AM »
Thanks to all who responded. I now have a pretty good sense of what to purchase. I am leaning toward an RPi 4 kit. I will look for one that has a decent cooling fan in the case as heat does seem to be a factor. It appears that most of the online retailers are out of stock on many of the kits.

I would wait on the 4 until some more of the kinks have been worked out.  I have several 3b+ devices and they work great.  I am capturing data from the Atlas via the WU Interceptor and sending the results to Weewx.  This allows me to hold my data and send it wherever Weewx supports. 

Offline galfert

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2019, 02:21:54 PM »
I think the only kink issue with the Pi 4 is that the power design is not compliant. The two CC pins are sharing a single resistor instead of having their own resistor. This causes problems if you use certain cables or chargers. But with the standard official power supply there is no issue.

Every other issue discovered with the Pi 4 is or will be resolved firmware updates. Overheating...solved via update.

What else is there? Buster problems?...wait for updates.
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Offline pfletch101

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2019, 02:50:11 PM »
I think the only kink issue with the Pi 4 is that the power design is not compliant. The two CC pins are sharing a single resistor instead of having their own resistor. This causes problems if you use certain cables or chargers. But with the standard official power supply there is no issue.
The best rule to follow with Pis is always to use the appropriate standard official power supply. The Pi forums are full of people who discovered this the hard way. Pis require a constant 5V supply that does not 'sag' significantly under load. Many 'bricks' sold primarily as chargers cannot sustain their rated voltage up to their rated power output.
Quote
Every other issue discovered with the Pi 4 is or will be resolved firmware updates. Overheating...solved via update.
Not really! Recent firmware updates have improved the heat generation at low to intermediate loads somewhat, but, AFAIK, a Pi 4 will still overheat and throttle under low to moderate loads in a closed case, while the firmware mods have not affected the heat generation under maximum load - where fan cooling or other substantial cooling measures are needed to avoid overheating and consequent throttling.
Quote
What else is there? Buster problems?...wait for updates.
Most people have not been affected by these, and they are relevant to all Pi models.
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Online nincehelser

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Re: Raspberry Pi Questions
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2019, 02:56:38 PM »
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There's no need to wait. 

Just be aware of the heat difference from earlier Pis.

All the other issues will hardly impact anyone.