Author Topic: WS-2000 Bubble Level  (Read 487 times)

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Offline ALEEF02

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WS-2000 Bubble Level
« on: May 14, 2019, 09:58:13 PM »
So today I went up for my WS-2000's 3-month maintenance. I have always noticed a slight basis towards western wind, so I went up with the intention of fixing that.
I rebolted my WS-2000 and made sure the bubble gauge was dead center. While the bubble gauge is dead center, I noticed the wind vane looked a little tilted so that the north side was higher than the south side but didn't think much of it.
Now, back inside, I am definitely seeing a more North-biased wind report. How can I properly level my WS-2000? Thanks in advance!

Online galfert

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 10:42:54 PM »
Judging by your profile photo it seems like some recommended best siting practices were not used. Your wind bias may be due to how close it is to your roof. Your anemometer should be situated at a distance that is 4 times the difference in height of the roof and your station. For example if your roof is 20 feet, and your station is at 14 feet high, that difference in height is 6 feet and therefore your station should be 24 feet from the Apex of your roof. If you want to keep it at that current location then it looks like it needs to be on a taller pole.

All that was just about the anemometer. But there is another reason to raise your station higher. Being so close to the roof is bound to affect temperature readings as the roof radiates heat. It should be a good 5 or 6 feet up to mitigate that. It seems like it is much too low and close to the roof.

But you have an all in one station and with an all in one you can't have everything perfect. So it is about compromise. If you put your all in one too high then rainfall accuracy will suffer as it should only be but a few feet off the ground. So you need to decide what is most important to you.

From observing a few all in one stations they do okay up high, and rain doesn't suffer too much unless it is very windy. If it were me I'd raise it. That is if you don't have an open area to use a 13 to 16 foot pole.

Take some pictures if you think your wind vane is not right. Leveling is pretty forgiving with he Osprey sensor. It doesn't need to be perfectly level with the bubble in the very center of the ring. Anywhere inside the ring is good enough. So I don't think that is the problem unless you have a defect, so then returning it if it is under warranty may be an option. Otherwise you can replace just the wind vane if it's messed up. Or maybe it wasn't attached right.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 06:54:55 AM by galfert »
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Offline ALEEF02

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2019, 12:25:54 AM »
Judging by your profile photo it seems like some recommended best siting practices were not used. Your wind bias may be due to how close it is to your roof. Your anemometer should be situated at a distance that is 4 times the difference in height of the roof and your station. For example if your roof is 20 feet, and your station is at 15 feet high, that difference in height is 6 feet and therefore your station should be 24 feet from the Apex of your roof. If you want to keep it at that current location then it looks like it needs to be on a taller pole.

All that was just about the anemometer. But there is another reason to raise your station higher. Being so close to the roof is bound to affect temperature readings as the roof radiates heat. It should be a good 5 or 6 feet up to mitigate that. It seems like it is much to low and close to the roof.

But you have an all in one station and with an all in one you can't have everything perfect. So it is about compromise. If you put your all in one too high then rainfall accuracy will suffer as it should only be but a few feet off the ground. So you need to decide what is most important to you.

From observing a few all in one stations they do okay up high, and rain doesn't suffer too much unless it is very windy. If it were me I'd raise it. That is if you don't have an open area to use a 13 to 16 foot pole.

Take some pictures if you think your wind vane is not right. Leveling is pretty forgiving with he Osprey sensor. It doesn't need to be perfectly level with the bubble in the very center of the ring. Anywhere inside the ring is good enough. So I don't think that is the problem unless you have a defect, so then returning it if it is under warranty may be an option. Otherwise you can replace just the wind vane if it's messed up. Or maybe it wasn't attached right.

It's a bad perspective, it's about 4 feet off the roof

Today I just Kentucky Windaged the sensor to make it level.

Offline kbellis

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2019, 01:38:37 PM »
Today I just Kentucky Windaged the sensor to make it level.

I'm not at all sure what that means in context of a weather station, or whose sights are being aimed and at what; could you describe what you're referring to?

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In addition to everything the George points out in regards to siting, micro climates (great related read here), and compromises, the bulls eye level bubble on the Osprey is indeed something to be concerned about; moreover, in making certain that the outdoor array is level because it influences the tipping bucket's performance. And how significant that influence is, may be surprising.

When I placed the Osprey on its super plumb mast on the day after Christmas 2018, I thought the assembly had to be super level. Note that vertical lines are plumb, horizontal lines are level, despite how often these terms are misused! The next day, I hoisted my camera aloft and discovered the bubble was barely contained within the red circle of the bulls eye. I thought at the time: close enough, while harboring uncertainty.

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Thanks to that uncertainty, I purchased a Stratus rain gauge. Eventually the frozen ground thawed, and the thing was set in place just in time for a rain event. Then looking at the first returning numbers (see Buckets and Tubes spreadsheet for details), it seemed like this was a time for spring cleaning and re-leveling.

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While the differences between Osprey's reported rain and the readings from the Stratus rain gauge improved, they still were greater than me and my nerdy OCD would have liked. During a break in our rainy weather, I lowered the mast again to try and understand some of the issues at play. My conclusions were that 1.) even though the top of the mast was squarely cut and super level, the muffler clamp style connector introduces asymmetrical force when tightening, and 2.) the Osprey is nose heavy with its center of gravity north of the connection. This is also the axial direction (S-N) in which the rain bucket tips.

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After about 5 hours of messing around, I found that torquing the upper u-bolt first and with greater torque than the lower u-bolt on the muffler clamp assembly mitigated some of the northerly roll downward. I don't have enough data since my last re-leveling, but early returns and differences of 5% to 6% give rise to wondering about how closely the bulls eye level and the tipping bucket are aligned to each other. Fortunately so far, there's been only light to moderate winds during rain events, and lessening the differences between the two devices caused by overcatch.

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Offline ALEEF02

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2019, 04:09:40 PM »
In reference to my earlier post, I made the bubble on the station more south of the red circle (south side higher) It appears to have mostly fixed my wind bias. We also had rain yesterday and the rain collected still matched near perfectly with nearby stations.

Offline havtrail

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2019, 07:26:21 PM »
I'm still curious why you think you have a wind bias. Wind does not have to "even out" from all directions over the long term. Are you noticing perhaps that when the vane stops during a calm that it tends to come to rest in a particular direction?

Rich K.
Onset HOBO RX3003 Cellular
https://weather.havtrail.com
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Offline ALEEF02

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2019, 03:35:28 AM »
I'm still curious why you think you have a wind bias. Wind does not have to "even out" from all directions over the long term. Are you noticing perhaps that when the vane stops during a calm that it tends to come to rest in a particular direction?

Rich K.

That is correct. The wind vane would always rest North in no wind situations

Offline kbellis

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2019, 01:40:12 PM »
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I'm still curious why you think you have a wind bias. Wind does not have to "even out" from all directions over the long term. Are you noticing perhaps that when the vane stops during a calm that it tends to come to rest in a particular direction?

Rich K.

That is correct. The wind vane would always rest North in no wind situations

Hi Anthony,

I looked at your photos that you've posted on https://lfweather.net/. I'm not sure if they are showing where your PWS is presently located, but if it is still located as shown above, I have to agree with George and suggest that you consider a better location. Also, be sure that you've oriented the PWS to true north. I realize Home Owners Associations can often have strict rules, so maybe you had no choice but to place it on the roof below the ridge line.

Regardless of how strict the rules of the HOA apply to siting your PWS, the rules of gravity apply to us all equally. Given what you've presented; i.e., "bubble gauge was dead center", and "the wind vane looked a little tilted so that the north side was higher than the south side" it seems that either the wind vane wasn't squarely seated on its spindle, or the level bubble isn't seated correctly.

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Offline ALEEF02

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2019, 09:10:54 PM »
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I'm still curious why you think you have a wind bias. Wind does not have to "even out" from all directions over the long term. Are you noticing perhaps that when the vane stops during a calm that it tends to come to rest in a particular direction?

Rich K.

That is correct. The wind vane would always rest North in no wind situations

Hi Anthony,

I looked at your photos that you've posted on https://lfweather.net/. I'm not sure if they are showing where your PWS is presently located, but if it is still located as shown above, I have to agree with George and suggest that you consider a better location. Also, be sure that you've oriented the PWS to true north. I realize Home Owners Associations can often have strict rules, so maybe you had no choice but to place it on the roof below the ridge line.

Regardless of how strict the rules of the HOA apply to siting your PWS, the rules of gravity apply to us all equally. Given what you've presented; i.e., "bubble gauge was dead center", and "the wind vane looked a little tilted so that the north side was higher than the south side" it seems that either the wind vane wasn't squarely seated on its spindle, or the level bubble isn't seated correctly.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Hi Kelly,
I have since bought a more proper mount since these photos were taken, but forgot to upload them to the site. The mount previously used was not meant for the underhang, so I attempted (not successfully) to make a wood spacer.  Here are some more recent photos.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 11:08:11 AM by ALEEF02 »

Offline havtrail

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Re: WS-2000 Bubble Level
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2019, 08:44:00 AM »
It was Kelly (kbellis) that brought up the levelness issue, but I will say that's a much better looking arrangement you have now! Levelness or verticality can be very hard to see in a photo, especially when the camera has to be angled or there are many sloping roof lines.

Rich K.
Onset HOBO RX3003 Cellular
https://weather.havtrail.com
WU KPAHAVER17
NEWA pa_have

 

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