Author Topic: Weatherlink Live  (Read 7283 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline racer3

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Weatherlink Live
« on: April 18, 2019, 05:42:00 PM »
Just got an email that Davis just released the weatherlink live. Waiting to see some reviews before I pull the trigger!

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2019, 05:52:15 PM »
Yeah. No info yet on API or how the "Connect your data to smart irrigation systems or other IoT smart home devices" part goes which I'm the most interested in.

Offline Beebabin

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2019, 07:00:43 PM »
Same Here,
After they get the bugs worked out and it performs as advertised I'll pull the trigger on one.

Offline Brientim

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Weatherlink Live
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2019, 07:14:51 PM »
There is a user Davis Weather Group on Facebook that has been testing and has 50 new ones on order for his company, so I think that is testimony of his thoughts.
https://www.weatherstem.com/dashboard?fbclid=IwAR34IhfZsbtfQ5iVNthZ4UmV725x6ErVRFg_2jy1SzT-GzjFU-BnqomDl1w

He has written an article for the meteorological magazine on what he has been doing.
https://www.ukimediaevents.com/publication/772db8ac/146?fbclid=IwAR0a4LivBnYzq9qyBx2IXJwwY4SC94prNQCDIlUUAO1VKAffXnsvEFcf5ys
,

The link below is to the Facebook group

https://m.facebook.com/groups/122495148272292?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment_mention
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 07:20:13 PM by Brientim »

Offline Wxwrench

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • My Office
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2019, 10:14:55 PM »
Hi Gang! I've been playing with the new Davis Live for 5 months so I'm happy to answer your questions if I can. Keep in mind, I've only been in the WX industry for 4ish years and I've haven't utilized many WX posting sites or other equipment manufacturers but I'm happy to help if I can. 

Offline PaulMy

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 4504
    • KomokaWeather
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 10:58:18 PM »
Quote
Hi Gang! I've been playing with the new Davis Live for 5 months so I'm happy to answer your questions if I can. Keep in mind, I've only been in the WX industry for 4ish years and I've haven't utilized many WX posting sites or other equipment manufacturers but I'm happy to help if I can. 
Hi, and welcome.  Most likely some here will have questions to an actual user...

Enjoy,
Paul
   
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 24-FARS Wireless
Envoy/USB DataLogger/Cumulus v.1.9.4   -   Vue Console/WiFiLogger/CumulusMX
Komoka, ON  Canada
www.komokaweather.ca   www.komokaweather.com   www.komokaweather.com/weather28/  
www.komokaweather.com/pws/index.php
Blitzortung Station #1076 www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung7/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=network&lang=en&bo_station_id=969


Offline Brientim

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2019, 11:56:51 PM »
Hi Gang! I've been playing with the new Davis Live for 5 months so I'm happy to answer your questions if I can. Keep in mind, I've only been in the WX industry for 4ish years and I've haven't utilized many WX posting sites or other equipment manufacturers but I'm happy to help if I can.
Welcome and no doubt your insight will help others make informed decisions.

Can you please provide an insight into setup, current capabilities, reliability that you have experienced to date and just your overall thoughts compared to other options you have deployed previously.

Thanks in advance.

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2019, 04:12:44 AM »
Just got an email that Davis just released the weatherlink live. Waiting to see some reviews before I pull the trigger!

TBH there isn't too much to review - it basically works as advertised. The key points are:

1. Set-up is via Bluetooth (smartphone/tablet) from the Weatherlink app (must be v2.0.16 or later, for iOS at least);

2. Uploads only to weatherlink.com - no other form of data access is available, for now at least;

3. Data updates to wl.com seem as per WeatherlinkIP, per-minute for current weather and hourly (I think, haven't timed it) for archive data;

4. For a phone/tablet on the same network as WLL then the app shows LIVE data with updates every 2-3 secs;

5. Multi-transmitter, multi-ISS etc reception all seems to work as advertised;

6. Downloads of data from WLL OR wl.com into local Weatherlink are NOT possible. So the only way of reviewing historic data is to have a Pro plan at wl.com

7. For anyone who's bothered, Vue wind speeds are reported online to 0.1mph resolution

8. The weatherlink.com embeds work as normal though limited to standard ISS data - I've got an example running at https://www.weatherstations.co.uk/weatherlink-live.htm

9. A bit early to comment on reliability, but so far seems excellent both with WiFi and cabled connection

10. Probably a good idea to have the 4xAA data backup batteries installed - otherwise you may get repeated alert emails from wl.com

11. The default archive interval is 15 mins, which can be lowered to the familiar 30/60/120 minutes. Increasing the frequency requires purchase of a subscription at wl.com for 5mins (Pro plan) or 1min (Pro+).

12. IF a web interface is exposed for WLL (maybe it isn't?), I haven't yet found the URL. The IP address on port 80 merely returns a default JSON error string - it's clearly responding so suspect it IS listening on port 80, but not returning a page or any useful data. Happy to try any other suggestions (PM?), but not back in the office until Tuesday now!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 06:18:56 AM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2019, 05:42:56 AM »
Thanks for the added details, John. At first glance it looks like it's not much more than an Envoy with arbitrary parallel reception ability (possibly like and Envoy 8x) + WeatherLink IP + the convenience of BT-based setup. Well, there's the wifi connection ability too, for some it's an added plus, I'm sure to plug it in if/when I get one. I'm a bit surprised it doesn't offer the nowadays ubiquitously offered standalone AP based initial setup and relies on BT which is not used for anything at all besides that. A mobile device that has BT has wifi too, after all. I'll eagerly watch as it's going to get momentum and see if new FW releases bring the advertised extra connection capabilities alongside WL...

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2019, 06:06:09 AM »
possibly like an Envoy 8x + WeatherLink IP + the convenience of BT-based setup.

Yes, that's my picture exactly: WLL = 8X + WLIP + WiFi

(Though with the caveat that data handling is very different to both 8X and WLIP and, for now at least, very much tied to wl.com.)

NB I suspect that the BT setup may be in part a carry-over from the Davis EM set-up which works in much the same way in configuring the device itself and uploads to wl.com. This has to work at remote locations and so BT is potentially the only option.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2019, 06:06:37 AM »
And the negatives are all as dictated by Davis which appears to be going down the subscription path down pipe.

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2019, 06:26:48 AM »
This has to work at remote locations and so BT is potentially the only option.
Sorry for the nitpicking, but the AP-based setup procedure is so that the device itself creates a wifi AP to which the mobile device (or any wifi-capable device for that matter) can connect and perform the initial setup. No wifi infrastructure is needed. Well, both should work but BT sometimes has weird quirks.

And the negatives are all as dictated by Davis which appears to be going down the subscription path down pipe.
Exactly. It's understandable they want to make money on their cloud service but they really should allow easy standards-based connections for more integration possibilities for professional customers at least (let's forget us enthusiasts for a moment). It might be they see the market has other offerings that fill that gap? It surely has, but I'd happily buy from them instead...

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2019, 06:34:35 AM »
This has to work at remote locations and so BT is potentially the only option.
Sorry for the nitpicking, but the AP-based setup procedure is so that the device itself creates a wifi AP to which the mobile device

I do understand, but doesn't WiFi usually have significantly higher power demands than BT and so less suitable for battery-powered devices in the field (plus maybe extra cost too?). But the point is moot really - it's the solution that Davis have gone with, for better or for worse, and no-one outside of the Davis designers knows the decision process.

Quote
...but they really should allow easy standards-based connections for more integration possibilities for professional customers at least

Just in case the point has been missed: There will definitely be a new API both local and (I'm assuming) from wl.com, but the WPI and its documentation are still being worked on - release is anticipated in 'summer'.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2019, 06:56:07 AM »
I do understand, but doesn't WiFi usually have significantly higher power demands than BT and so less suitable for battery-powered devices in the field (plus maybe extra cost too?).
The device has wifi. AP on most low-end devices like this is just a software thing with no additional cost. It's obviously not meant to be used through wifi nor BT on the field on the long term, that's only for local connections. Both consume too much power for that and provide low range. Something like the Vantage Connect would need to be used for long range or WAN. Well, BT could be used to connect to that long range solution locally, but would obviously require more power than a cable. And I'm not really missing the AP mode, it's just a bit surprising for me they aren't using that, since adding BT (or using a dual stack comms module) is the extra cost.

Just in case the point has been missed: There will definitely be a new API both local and (I'm assuming) from wl.com, but the WPI and its documentation are still being worked on - release is anticipated in 'summer'.
It's not that the point is missed, but rather, there is exactly zero information available on that subject. But thanks for the clarification. We'll see in time.

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2019, 07:16:22 AM »
The device has wifi. AP on most low-end devices like this is just a software thing with no additional cost.

Well, WLL has WiFi (of course) but an EM node does not AFAIK, which is the point I was making about set-up code commonality.

But thinking about this, I suspect that BT is also an easier connection type for casual users - eg there's no need to switch WiFi accounts midway and it's possible to make the process more seamless. eg with WLL the setup can report to the user via the initial BT connection that the parallel WiFi connection is authenticated and active. But, whatever, the BT decision has clearly been made.

Some members here are expert technology users, but a lot of weather station owners don't necessarily have the same skills and can stumble over what may seem to others the simplest of steps. So in part the BT approach may be to minimise the potential for support calls. Every little bit helps!  :-)
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline vreihen

  • El Niño chaser
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 996
  • K2BIG
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2019, 09:24:03 AM »
4. For a phone/tablet on the same network as WLL then the app shows LIVE data with updates every 2-3 secs;

Do you (or @Wxwrench) have a way to sniff your local wifi traffic?  I want to know if they are accomplishing the above via UDP broadcasts on the local subnet, or if they are using MDNS to publish a pointer locally for the app to find the WLL on the network.

I seem to have become the de-facto WeeWX station driver developer for UDP stuff, and want to know if I need to get into the queue to buy one now to develop a new UDP station driver.....
WU Gold Stars for everyone! :lol:

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2019, 09:31:02 AM »
Do you (or @Wxwrench) have a way to sniff your local wifi traffic? 

I'm not very familiar with doing this and don't have any (Windows!) tools at my fingertips. But happy to give it a go if you want to suggest something that's hopefully free and reasonably simple to set up & use. NB WLL is in my office and I won't be back there until Tuesday now I'm afraid.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2019, 10:04:58 AM »
Do you (or @Wxwrench) have a way to sniff your local wifi traffic?  I want to know if they are accomplishing the above via UDP broadcasts on the local subnet, or if they are using MDNS to publish a pointer locally for the app to find the WLL on the network.

I seem to have become the de-facto WeeWX station driver developer for UDP stuff, and want to know if I need to get into the queue to buy one now to develop a new UDP station driver.....
For now it's more than likely the only way you can connect to the WLL is via Davis' WeatherLink cloud service. They already have a free tier limitation in place, as without WL Pro subscription, you can only push archive records to their cloud using a 15 min interval, as the minimum/most frequent timing. Even if the packets can be captured on the LAN, it's again very likely they're at least encrypted. So there's work to be done reverse engineering the thing if it stays this way, for sure.

Offline vreihen

  • El Niño chaser
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 996
  • K2BIG
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2019, 12:06:20 PM »
Multiple sources confirm that the Davis app can receive 2.5 second updates (LOOP packets) on the local subnet, and the WLL pushes archive packets every 15 minutes to the Davis WL mothership.  There are only a few ways that I can think of that this can work:

  • WLL pushes LOOP packets to the cloud every 2.5 seconds, and then relays them back to the app running on the devices via web or MQTT.  I'm going to rule this out, since Davis appears to not want the flood of LOOP-frequency packets.  More important, the app would still have access to cloud-based packets from outside the local network, and the docs are clear that the app only works locally.
  • UDP broadcasts of LOOP packets on the local subnet every 2.5 seconds.  WeatherFlow pioneered this, and Atmocom also implemented it in their beta hub gizmo.  (Since I wrote the WeeWX station drivers for both, I would *really* like to get a head start on driver development if this is the case!)
  • Web socket or MQTT server on the WLL itself, being announced via mDNS on the local network so that the app can find the WLL.
  • Some proprietary communications arrangement, which in the day of mobile app development is not likely.  Programmers would rather use an existing library like websocket or MQTT rather than re-inventing the wheel.

#3 should be really easy to confirm or rule out by simply installing the iOS "Discovery - DNS-SD Browser" app onto an iPhone/iPad (or an equivalent Android app onto that platform).  Let it run for a few minutes, and see what it identifies on the subnet with the WLL.

#2 should is not too difficult to confirm or rule out from an Apple Mac or Linux machine on the subnet with the WLL.  As long as you know the WLL's IP address, the tcpdump command will quickly identify UDP broadcasts.  Here's the output from my WeatherFlow Hub:

Code: [Select]
$ sudo tcpdump host 192.168.1.133
Password:
tcpdump: data link type PKTAP
tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode
listening on pktap, link-type PKTAP (Apple DLT_PKTAP), capture size 262144 bytes
11:53:25.698002 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 208
11:53:25.698011 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 143
11:53:26.311372 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:26.315590 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:28.154605 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 218
11:53:29.384203 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:29.691338 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:32.148789 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:32.456297 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:35.220317 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:35.527707 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:38.292565 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 218
11:53:38.292946 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:38.293300 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:41.057195 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:41.365216 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:44.129274 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:44.436451 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:47.201354 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:47.508487 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 101
11:53:48.123160 IP 192.168.1.133.50222 > broadcasthost.50222: UDP, length 218
^C
21 packets captured
258 packets received by filter
0 packets dropped by kernel
$

This can also be done on Windows running Wireshark, but it is a much more complex (and powerful) tool.....
WU Gold Stars for everyone! :lol:

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2019, 01:45:53 PM »
Local, unencrypted UDP broadcast would be the most convenient. For P2P WLL<->mobile there are multiple ways to obtain the local address besides mDNS, but we can't tell what is being used unless someone is able to sniff the traffic and provide a dump.

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2019, 02:06:34 PM »
I can only contribute two facts/ideas at this stage:

The data format is unlikely to be LOOP(2) as we know it since you could potentially receive eg 8xISS or 8x6345 with a WLL. I suppose in theory one could imagine a LOOP for each active ID, but it seems a little unlikely these days to prefer packed binary to eg JSON as a format. This is potentially going to be problematic for use with any (adapted) existing software which is typically designed to handle one ISS plus eg some additional temp/hum/moisture sensors. You'll presumably be able to map data from eg one ISS OK but as soon as anyone wants eg two or more rain gauges or anemometers then adaptation will be more tricky.

The WLL input gateway on weatherlink.com was offline for maintenance/updating on Monday this week. The WL app in local/LIVE mode stopped showing ANY data. Make of that what you will - all sorts of possible interpretations from trivial to Machiavellian. It does cross my mind as to whether the API will be free when it appears; hopefully yes and absolutely not heard anything to the contrary, but...?

Edit: And it's perhaps worth remembering that the multi-transmitter/multi-sensor features are really no different in principle from EM which allows even more and more diverse sensors than WLL and for which wl.com is already designed to import. So personally I'm half-expecting at least some of the data handling characteristics to be carried over from EM.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 02:31:21 PM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline jgentry

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 440
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2019, 11:37:20 PM »
Does WLL has an altimeter setting for barometer? That’s what I love about the Vantage Vue console
Davis Vantage Pro2. SHT-75. WU: KXALJEMI2 & KALTHORS2. CWOP/APRS: C6353 & E6358

  

Offline srpawski

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2019, 08:00:49 AM »
I currently have a WeatherLink IP.  It’s my understanding that live replaces the need for a data logger in that since it connects to their cloud all data current polled by a weatherlink IP goes directly and bypasses the need for a logger. 

That said, if I still wish to download my data into the old windows 6.03 to keep my reports which I still want to do, am I still able to have that software pull it from the cloud as it does via uploads done by my IP logger now?

I’d just hook this up via Ethernet to avoid the packet sniffing issue concerns mentioned above.

Offline johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2019, 08:05:43 AM »
That said, if I still wish to download my data into the old windows 6.03 to keep my reports which I still want to do, am I still able to have that software pull it from the cloud as it does via uploads done by my IP logger now?

No, sorry.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1269
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2019, 08:26:37 AM »
Based on the WeatherLink2 direction it would appear WLL is a further dumbing down of what little users did have control over in the past. The so called phase out of the 6555 (only non subscription logger) is obviously another ploy to funnel users towards the 6100 which has all the subscription bells and whistles which appears to be the newest business model. The hallmarks of all this are starting to become rather obvious.