Author Topic: Weatherlink Live  (Read 8437 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3415
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2019, 08:37:58 AM »
The so called phase out of the 6555 (only non subscription logger) is obviously another ploy to funnel users towards the 6100 which has all the subscription bells and whistles which appears to be the newest business model.

To some extent that's probably true. But it's not necessarily a complete picture because:

1. WLL is an opportunity to break out of the straitjacket of limited sensor combinations that the VP2 traditionally offered. So with WLL you can have eg 2+ anemometers, 2+ rain gauges, solar and UV on a different transmitter from ISS etc etc. But these enhanced sensor combinations are not compatible with the old data structures (LOOP etc) and so some new approaches to the data handling are unavoidable.

2. WiFi Logger and eg Nano obviously remain available and can substitute for the IP logger for all users that don't need the new sensor options.

3. Davis have said that the new API's will be published and this will presumably open the way to third party software which will be able to handle the new data structures. But we're in a period right now where we're waiting for the API's to appear.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2019, 09:53:23 AM »
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain? I mean, will be there a separate WLL for the US, AU, EU, NZ markets as with the ISS or one model can officially handle all frequencies? With the consoles or the Envoy, it's possible to select the reception band on any model.

Offline srpawski

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2019, 01:31:46 PM »
That said, if I still wish to download my data into the old windows 6.03 to keep my reports which I still want to do, am I still able to have that software pull it from the cloud as it does via uploads done by my IP logger now?

No, sorry.

Really?  I donít understand how I am able to download now from the web and wonít be able to with live since the data is still going to the same place from where the old software is downloading. 

Given the above answer, let me ask this - would I still be able to use my current IP logger to locally log my data and then import it into the old software the same way I can now once live is up and running, or would I need to purchase a USB logger in order to be able to continue importing into the old software?  I have reports going back to 2003 and want to be able to continue making them.

I realize Davis is moving away from supporting the local software, but I canít imagine they would leave everyone in the dust who wants to still use the old software for report making purposes since it is no longer an option with the WeatherLink 2.0 environment in a nice monthly summary how the old software works.

Online johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3415
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2019, 01:47:24 PM »
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain?

Sorry, I don't know - haven't received any official production stock quite yet and the preliminary information is ambiguous. Given that Davis still don't seem to be using universal AC mains adapters (though that could change any time), I guess there still will be EU/UK/US etc pack versions and I'd expect these to be preconfigured for the region. But I don't really know.

But OTOH conceivably  there's an instruction downloaded when the location is set on wl.com (but just speculating wildly here). TBH I'd be surprised if it's possible for the user to set the regional frequencies directly - I'm guessing that the command set for the API will be different from what we're used to and some instructions may be less publicised ;) BICBW.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 02:01:57 PM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Online johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3415
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2019, 01:54:16 PM »
Really?  I donít understand how I am able to download now from the web and wonít be able to with live since the data is still going to the same place from where the old software is downloading. 

Because the switch hasn't been thrown for WLL accounts to allow this. But as per my comments upthread, if you think about it, it's not so easy for WLL where users might often have combinations of sensors that aren't catered for by the standard WL database files, so the data simply wouldn't fit in the old data structures.

Quote
Given the above answer, let me ask this - would I still be able to use my current IP logger to locally log my data and then import it into the old software

Yes, that's one standard way of using the IP logger - not everyone wants to upload to wl.com, but may still want a network logger.

Quote
I realize Davis is moving away from supporting the local software, but I canít imagine they would leave everyone in the dust who wants to still use the old software for report making purposes since it is no longer an option with the WeatherLink 2.0 environment in a nice monthly summary how the old software works.

Remember that wl.com is still a work in progress in terms of features to be added. A couple of features that I think are on the roadmap maybe for later 2019 (but don't hold me to that) are:

1. Upload your existing/past data files to wl.com so that you maintain your complete weather history online

2. NOAA reports
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 02:03:49 PM by johnd »
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2019, 02:03:47 PM »
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain?

Sorry, I don't know - haven't received any official production stock quite yet
...
Thanks. Then, again, time will tell.

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2019, 05:35:29 PM »
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain? I mean, will be there a separate WLL for the US, AU, EU, NZ markets as with the ISS or one model can officially handle all frequencies? With the consoles or the Envoy, it's possible to select the reception band on any model.

Usable frequency domain? Are you referring to 900mhz or the WiFi? If 900mhz then wouldn't be any different to now to meet band license requirements, if WiFi then again would be country specific and something most good wireless do on first setup, lock the device into a specific country.

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2019, 05:46:50 PM »
I don't care about the wifi, I was wondering about the Davis proprietary radio reception ability. 1 device for all regions + local setup or N devices for N regions with fixed factory settings for each.

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2019, 05:47:30 PM »
That said, if I still wish to download my data into the old windows 6.03 to keep my reports which I still want to do, am I still able to have that software pull it from the cloud as it does via uploads done by my IP logger now?

No, sorry.

.... Given the above answer, let me ask this - would I still be able to use my current IP logger to locally log my data and then import it into the old software the same way I can now once live is up and running, or would I need to purchase a USB logger in order to be able to continue importing into the old software?  I have reports going back to 2003 and want to be able to continue making them.

I realize Davis is moving away from supporting the local software, but I canít imagine they would leave everyone in the dust who wants to still use the old software for report making purposes since it is no longer an option with the WeatherLink 2.0 environment in a nice monthly summary how the old software works.

I wouldn't be taking anything off the table as to what Davis will do or plan to do. Locally it's impossible (I would expect but on the internet a WLIP does show a MAC address) for Davis to stop you downloading a WLIP to a PC, who only knows if the WLIP upload to WL2 then the ability to download back to PC will be retained? No doubt Davis could provide the nice monthly summary .... on a subscription plan, I believe one day people will realize this cloud generation thing was a controlling rort? 

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2019, 05:49:29 PM »
I don't care about the wifi, I was wondering about the Davis proprietary radio reception ability. 1 device for all regions + local setup or N devices for N regions with fixed factory settings for each.

No, you may call it Davis propriety radio reception but that is using 900mhz and that is licenced differently depending on the country

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2019, 06:12:16 PM »
No, you may call it Davis propriety radio reception but that is using 900mhz and that is licenced differently depending on the country

No, it's using the 900 MHz ISM band in NA, NZ and AU. It's using the 860 MHz SRD band in the EU and the UK. However, the consoles and the Envoy can be set to receive any of those. Again, I was wondering if that's possible with the WLL or not, but we don't know yet. Wifi is similar but while using the same 2.4 GHz ISM band (it might use the 5 GHz band, too, but I have doubts), a few subbands are not uniformly allotted between regions. I don't care about that now. If/when I get my hands on one I plan to use the wired connection.

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2019, 06:30:21 PM »
Yes the Consoles and Envoys can be set to too receive across the band but there is no common band within 900mhz that is common to all countries. This is the same with stuff like Freewave as what is usable in the US 902-928 is not all usable in say AU because they sold off part of the band to a Telco. I would assume nothing will change, the country specific configs will stay. 

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2019, 06:57:21 PM »
no common band within 900mhz that is common to all countries
I'm aware but that's still not the point, the ability to select a region by the end user, is. Maybe my original question was worded badly.

I would assume nothing will change, the country specific configs will stay.
Well, yes, it's compulsory after all. The question is, whether they lock it down completely or not. Doing that requires real effort and tight security follow-ups from their part, so who knows. The HW is most probably the same with different settings applied in the FW per region.

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2019, 07:04:42 PM »
no common band within 900mhz that is common to all countries
I'm aware but that's still not the point, the ability to select a region by the end user, is. Maybe my original question was worded badly.

I would assume nothing will change, the country specific configs will stay.
Well, yes, it's compulsory after all. The question is, whether they lock it down completely or not. Doing that requires real effort and tight security follow-ups from their part, so who knows. The HW is most probably the same with different settings applied in the FW per region.

If they allowed region setup by the end user then that just may affect the dealership network in some countries? They may no longer be required as users could buy from overseas which in some cases is a lot different to local pricing?

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2019, 07:21:56 PM »
If they allowed region setup by the end user then that just may affect the dealership network in some countries? They may no longer be required as users could buy from overseas which in some cases is a lot different to local pricing?
I think it's a rhetorical question since the situation is exactly the same with HW that predates the WLL.

Offline Joel

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2019, 07:26:14 PM »
@John, is there any info on the usable frequency domain? I mean, will be there a separate WLL for the US, AU, EU, NZ markets as with the ISS or one model can officially handle all frequencies? With the consoles or the Envoy, it's possible to select the reception band on any model.

RTFM  8-)

Receive Frequency
US Models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  902.0 - 928.0 MHz FHSS
EU Models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  868.0 - 868.6 MHz FHSS
Australia/Brazil Models  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  918.0 - 926.0 MHz FHSS
New Zealand Models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  921.0 - 928.0 MHz FHSS
Japan Models  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  928.15 - 929.65 MHz FHSS
India Models  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  865.0 - 867.0 MHz FHSS

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2019, 07:33:46 PM »
RTFM  8-)
Could you please read my discussion with Matt before posting. It's not about the exact frequency range, nor the exact list of regions. It's irrelevant. Their existence is not.

Offline Brientim

  • Senior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
Weatherlink Live
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2019, 03:23:00 AM »
I agree that Davis are not moving away from old operating models that pre-dates the WLL and the different models are clearly reflected in their released product data sheet.

https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/spec_sheets/6100_WL-Live_Spec_Sheet.pdf
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 03:52:10 AM by Brientim »

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2019, 03:57:53 AM »
Their operating model is becoming very clear and very restrictive, upload your data to us, download your data from us as we really won't be providing any other means to access your data, WL PC is obviously not in the operating model for very much longer, WLIP is already gone, a rather very tunnel vision approach, they sort of appear to be trying to lower their capability using a very dictated approach and moving away from their semi-professional product approach to a more general consumer amazon approach. They may well in fact make some more coin at this lower level for the masses but will loose their traditional footprint     

Online johnd

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3415
    • www.weatherstations.co.uk
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2019, 04:10:48 AM »
Their operating model is becoming very clear and very restrictive, upload your data to us, download your data from us as we really won't be providing any other means to access your data, WL PC is obviously not in the operating model for very much longer, WLIP is already gone...

Please, let's keep this factually correct:

1. WeatherlinkIP is still readily available and is likely to be so for the next few months. Even when stocks are exhausted, WFL or Nano can also act as local  network-connected loggers.

2. Davis have promised an API for WLL but it's just not available at this precise moment.
Prodata Weather Systems
Prodata's dedicated Davis EnviroMonitor website
UK Davis Premier Dealer - All Davis stations, accessories and spares
Littleport, Ely, Cambs UK

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2019, 05:23:51 AM »
Well to be factual, there is really nothing actually new, nothing ground breaking, no redesigned sensor hardware which is the basis of any weather system, it is really nothing more than taking the same data, repackaging it and charging for the privilege while removing anything that doesn't fit their cloud propriety model.

And lets be frank, WeatherLink IP is finished which is what phased out actually is not matter what twist is put on it.

Claiming that there are OEM that can fill the void left by this departure is basically saying there has in fact been a hole left with this propriety and deliberately imposed model   

Offline Aardvark

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2122
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2019, 07:16:14 PM »
I need to know on the setup (wonder if there is an instruction manual out yet) I assume is PC/ Windows compatible setting it up, but is it macOSX (apple) compatible and able to set up.   Unlike Weatherlink for mac,  with an IP logger it is impossible to set up via Envoy and IP with that.

Right now, I have my console with the Ethernet going into my 8 port Linksys switch and that connected to the modem.    That works fine and from the sound of the stuff here,  the Weatherlink unit might connect to a IP logger and that into the modem instead of the Envoy units.   In fact, I wonder if they are going to phase out the Envoys.
Davis VP2 Plus; 24h  FARS; Extra Temp Humid sensor (2); Extra Temp Station (2); Soil Moisture/Temp  https://www.weatherlink.com/embeddablePage/show/1c484adbfa914d1aa10a58ad53ccd563/summary;Weatherlink IP;USB; MAC Catalina
; Webcam;

Offline kobuki

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2019, 07:42:24 PM »
As far as I understand it, the basic setup is done via a mobile device like an iPhone or an Android smart phone. No PC involved or required.

Offline Mattk

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1286
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2019, 07:49:31 PM »
Aardvark, As best I am aware there is no PC/Windows compatible setting it up, all Smartphone even with the WLL connected by Ethernet. The WeatherLink Live box is self contained, similar to an Envoy type look, no screen but with the inclusion of WiFi/Ethernet and has no capability of connecting to a IP Logger.

I would tend to be thinking the same that there may be other phase outs that don't fit with this subscription business model? Apart from the WLIP there are already a couple of sensor stations also dropped 6372 Wireless Temp and 6382 Solar powered Wireless Temp/Humidity stations.   

Offline Jumpin Joe

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1022
    • Joeís Weather
Re: Weatherlink Live
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2019, 08:53:27 PM »
If I understand correctly, how one can access their data using the WeatherLink App on multiple devices and you want to see more than basic information, you must pay a subscription fee for each device. This would be cost prohibitive for most.

Does anyone know, if in fact, this is the way it works.

Thanks


 

anything