Author Topic: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page  (Read 10438 times)

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Offline Jáchym

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2019, 04:29:00 AM »
I will rather stay quiet so that Im not banned from this forum...

Let me just say one thing, very shortly and to the point:

Without "us" you would have no data and no business. Think about it again and think about how you behave towards us. Be it support, announcing changes, implementing changes, removing things etc. etc.

I really wish every user now got so annoyed they would stop sending data to you, just like I did 2yrs ago because already back then I felt like you simply dont care about what we think.

Offline vsakalis

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2019, 04:43:40 AM »
Old WU starts working again, with problems in download!

Offline lightmaster

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2019, 04:48:23 AM »
I will rather stay quiet so that Im not banned from this forum...

Let me just say one thing, very shortly and to the point:

Without "us" you would have no data and no business. Think about it again and think about how you behave towards us. Be it support, announcing changes, implementing changes, removing things etc. etc.

I really wish every user now got so annoyed they would stop sending data to you, just like I did 2yrs ago because already back then I felt like you simply dont care about what we think.

As great as a boycott of sending data would be, there are many times more users out there that have bought a $100 weather station (not saying anything's wrong with those) and their only experience with WU is typing in the station ID and password on their little display console. They only did it cuz it was an option during setup, and the only reason they bought their station was so they could see their data on a screen inside their house. These are the people that make up the vast bulk of the WU PWS owners. No matter how hard of a stance the community take against WU and anyone else that would abuse the trust we place in them when we send them data, the vast majority will continue to fuel companies like WU's growing ego. All WU will see is that most users still send data and still seem happy, so in their eyes, what's the harm done?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 06:24:49 PM by lightmaster »

Offline CW2274

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2019, 04:56:31 AM »
I will rather stay quiet so that Im not banned from this forum...

Let me just say one thing, very shortly and to the point:

Without "us" you would have no data and no business. Think about it again and think about how you behave towards us. Be it support, announcing changes, implementing changes, removing things etc. etc.

I really wish every user now got so annoyed they would stop sending data to you, just like I did 2yrs ago because already back then I felt like you simply dont care about what we think.

As great as a boycott of sending data would be, there are many times more users out there that have bought a $100 weather station (not saying anything's wrong with those) and their only experience with WU is typing in the station ID and password on their little display console. They never only did it cuz it was an option during setup, and the only reason they bought their station was so they could see their data on a screen inside their house. These are the people that make up the vast bulk of the WU PWS owners, and these are the people that don't even know of the atrocities being committed against all PWS owners. No matter how hard of a stance we take against WU and anyone else that would abuse the trust we place in them when we send them data, the vast majority won't even know there's a Rights war going on, and will continue to fuel companies like WU's growing ego. All WU will see is that most users still send data and still seem happy, so in their eyes, what's the harm done?
I see very little to argue with here.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2019, 05:53:44 AM »
they must have listened ..and csv downloads are working again  :shock:

Offline lightmaster

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2019, 05:57:10 AM »
they must have listened ..and csv downloads are working again  :shock:

If it was an accident, losing them in the first place, then this really shows how little trust the community has in WU and how strong the dislike towards all their recent changes is.

If this wasn't an accident, then that lack of trust is definitely well earned.

Offline galfert

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2019, 07:34:08 AM »
they must have listened ..and csv downloads are working again  :shock:

If it was an accident, losing them in the first place, then this really shows how little trust the community has in WU and how strong the dislike towards all their recent changes is.

If this wasn't an accident, then that lack of trust is definitely well earned.

I think it was deliberate and not an accident because at the same time the old website (horizon) went down and that is still down. If it was an accident they would not have been so quiet yesterday yet very active reading on this forum. If it was an accident they would have said that they don't know what happened and are looking into the matter.

The access to data is but only one more change that they have attempted to take away. Still they lied and took away the old website (horizon) before the fixes were done to the new website, and they promised to keep the old site up until the fixes were in.

The other recent revelation is that failure to able to name your station is not a bug of the new website. They did this on purpose because they don't trust the users in what names they use for their station and they said it was because they can't police it. Which is total BS because a simple reporting system would solve that. How many years has WU existed where you could name your station whatever you wanted and now it's an issue? That just means management has changed and there is new people at the helm and they are attempting to implement their authority from a holier than thou attitude. It was the same argument used last year when they took away station status statement feature.

Let's talk about decimals. Why do we not yet have decimals? How hard is that to fix? We know that they are ingesting the data with full precision as was evident from looking at the old website (horizon) before it went down. So this isn't a new website backend problem. This is purely a display issue as there is a translation of data and rounding that is occurring only at the front end that displays the new website UI. We know the reason this poor decision was made because they told us. They felt that decimals were not pertinent because most systems are not calibrated and/or lack the accuracy in hardware design. So someone at the top made this decision. Yes we are not happy with that. But does that really mean we changed their minds? Maybe that person at the top is really ticked off and still disagrees with us. I'd like to hear confirmation that decimals are really coming back for live data, summary data, historical data and graphs.

I'd also like to hear what the future holds. What is the big plan for WU with yet still all the removed and missing features? Is there going to be a paid subscription service to gain those features back? Like downloading of data in .csv from the UI, editing/deleting bad data, naming your station, being able to do custom and yearly reports, being able to place your station precisely on the map, live auto-refresh graphs, displaying of other sensors like soil and leaf,... etc.


« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 07:49:15 AM by galfert »
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Offline openvista

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2019, 07:42:40 AM »
they must have listened ..and csv downloads are working again  :shock:

Just checked my dashboard. Still no way to download data. But as long as some power users can again sneak through the back door and get their data, then WU is "listening"? What about all those users that lightmaster described (which I alluded to on page 1)?

How in the world do you trust an organization that puts its own point person (Victoria) on an ice floe for 2 months without an answer to simple question: "what happened to the download button?" Or maybe they gave her an answer that she hid from the public?

Either way... I wouldn't be rushing to restore my old scripts. How are developers supposed to deal with sort of chaos?
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Offline awsum140

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2019, 07:44:18 AM »
Great new business model on the horizon.  Contributors freely upload their data then pay for the privilege of being able to access it in a concise, meaningful way. The bottom line is that IBM sees WU as an income stream and wants as much income as they can wring from it, at the expense of those that provide the data, for free, that makes the whole thing possible in the first place.  It may take time, but I suspect that WU will end up in the dust bin of once wonderful services an web sites.
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Offline weather34

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2019, 08:34:09 AM »
they must have listened ..and csv downloads are working again  :shock:


How are developers supposed to deal with sort of chaos?

you dont you just move on to a better solution that you have some control over .
collaborate with software,hardware,web developers on here far more chance of getting something relative to the needs of most enthusiasts and it will allow your own input which may give you some sense of achievement and satisfaction in being able to participate and heard .

i wouldnt throw any more time or energy into using this type of service without some fallback , even other cloud based, api based services just randomly disappear as soon as the popularity increases . only recently i wanted to use a Nest thermostat based api service for our new home in the last few days i discovered the API offered is redundant , quote
“We already saw the writing on the wall in January, but now it's official: Google announced that the Nest API will be turned off at the end of August, 2019. This means that in a little over three months, you will no longer be able to get your own data, that Google has collected in your home, and use it like you see fit.” so you see all faith in these services are diminishing rapidly what was originally released as a flexible service soon becomes a short lived ..

any service is certainly vulnerable when some smart ass accountant comes along and sez  this is unsustainable and non profitable we need to wind this down..

so onwards and upwards lets hope this community can get its heads together and create something but its by far not an easy task but achievable . have a great day all.. brian


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Offline txweather.org

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2019, 08:51:37 AM »
they must have listened ..and csv downloads are working again  :shock:


How are developers supposed to deal with sort of chaos?

you dont you just move on to a better solution that you have some control over .
collaborate with software,hardware,web developers on here far more chance of getting something relative to the needs of most enthusiasts and it will allow your own input which may give you some sense of achievement and satisfaction in being able to participate and heard .

i wouldnt throw any more time or energy into using this type of service without some fallback , even other cloud based, api based services just randomly disappear as soon as the popularity increases . only recently i wanted to use a Nest thermostat based api service for our new home in the last few days i discovered the API offered is redundant , quote
“We already saw the writing on the wall in January, but now it's official: Google announced that the Nest API will be turned off at the end of August, 2019. This means that in a little over three months, you will no longer be able to get your own data, that Google has collected in your home, and use it like you see fit.” so you see all faith in these services are diminishing rapidly what was originally released as a flexible service soon becomes a short lived ..

any service is certainly vulnerable when some smart ass accountant comes along and sez  this is unsustainable and non profitable we need to wind this down..

so onwards and upwards lets hope this community can get its heads together and create something but its by far not an easy task but achievable . have a great day all.. brian




+100000000000000000000000 This. Can we make shirts that say: I vote for Brian. Please?


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Offline weather34

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2019, 09:12:15 AM »
ha please dont vote for me  :grin: you have a solution sitting right in front of you ? hint nanosd
what is quoted at 20 years of data storage capability..that thing does more than you would ever get out of an online service and you have that control if your that serious about preserving your years of  data then thats the path i would take as i do now .. however not everyone owns one but there are solutions already there and have been around for years .
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Offline txweather.org

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2019, 09:17:12 AM »
they must have listened ..and csv downloads are working again  :shock:

I hope that the community Developer Gods wont use this service any more and we move to something else. It just cant be trusted.

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Offline txweather.org

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2019, 11:31:13 AM »
Galfert, I was being facetious, this was definitely deliberate. You don't do something this drastic and generate so much anger without trying to stem the bleeding. If it was accidentally, bring a large company, someone who wasn't responsible for fixing it would have tried to calm everything down while they fixed it. Even now I have yet to hear about any official response.

Also, there was a lot of hate generated and yet nobody trying to pacify the mob that's forming with pitchforks and torches?? Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but this is starting to feel like everything is planned, even our reactions of anger. IBM now owns 2 competing services... you either use them as competition against each other too make them both better, or you burn one to the ground and get everyone to happily switch. Option 1 it's the better but more expensive route, option 2 is the lesser but cheaper route.... Weather.com doesn't require hundreds of thousands of personally owned stations and doesn't require time and effort to keep a knowledgeable community happy, so they attempt to make everyone hate WU and push everyone away from WU, making it all the more easier to shut it down entire in the not too distant future, making common non-technical users happily switch to weather.com, and the only downside to the company is that they piss off the group of people that they consider expendable anyways.

Now, I may be way off base with all this, and I really hope I am cuz I remember the days when WU was great, but I really feel that everything that has happened is by design, down to the smallest detail, and that no matter what our actions are, we are just playing into IBM's hands.

WU is nothing like weather.com. weather.com is injected in a more professional model. Watson is IBM's baby and weather.com is representing that where WU is like a playground for the like of us...
Shit they dont even put watson on the wu brand! Is branded as "IBM Cloud" which represents nothing. I bet you that they are not trying to phase anything out nor move us to hate wu and phase it out... We are just second hand citizens. IBM will exploit our data to no end and at the end try to monetize it... Shit they are allready way on that path!

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Offline openvista

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2019, 11:52:08 AM »
Since some are dreaming aloud of beating WU at their own game, let's walk through the life cycle of modern tech ventures.

First, someone has a bright idea. See earlier posts.

Then they need money. The PE and VC people aren't in it to save the whales. You'll need to show them how they can get a lot for a little. Guess who calls the shots at that point?

If the idea folks say "we don't really need to turn a profit" then they'd better have deep pockets. Because to do anything at even a modest scale is going to require servers, bandwidth, admins, developers, marketing, etc. Any startup, even one with modest goals, better have a plan to deal with success. Otherwise, eventually, users will start gang raping their brain child.

So... why was it possible 15-20 years ago to have a viable company that was user centric where people would cooperate and sacrifice to innovate or create a genuine community? First, because only a fraction of the world was online. Demand didn't as easily outstrip resources. The culture was fairly uniform. But most importantly, we didn't quite yet live in a world of cosmically-sized entitlement complexes.

In 2019 investors, creators, employees, and consumers expect it all. On the business side that means maximal profit (usually accomplished thru accounting trickery and debt). On the user side that means free stuff forever.

Two acquisitions and a slew of redesigns later (including one exclusively for advertisers), WU still hasn't shed enough features to please the money gods.

For the record, I don't actually think that downloading CSV data really costs WU anything. I think it's just symbolic of corporate culture in general. The way the bosses counter stakeholders who demand more is to institute austerity ("doing more with less"). That, of course, bleeds into performance, communication, loyalty, etc. The snake is eating its own tail.
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Offline 92merc

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2019, 12:35:05 PM »
Just picking up on this thread.  I have to say, another WU disappointment.  I still liked to use the wxwuhistory.php page.  I hope our guy Ken can figure something out again.  If not, I can probably label my site as WU free, because they've killed everything.

Any bets they start blocking radar from third party sites?  That's my next bet.  Killing off images to be hosted on other sites...
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Offline txweather.org

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2019, 12:36:49 PM »
Any bets they start blocking radar from third party sites?  That's my next bet.  Killing off images to be hosted on other sites...

Oh its coming!

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Offline gadget_guy

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2019, 12:53:19 PM »
I'm at a loss to understand why any of us should continue to upload our data to WU.  If download capability does not return in the next 7 days, I'm reluctantly pulling the plug.  Let's see how long WU survives without data
 

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Offline galfert

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2019, 12:54:48 PM »
Since some are dreaming aloud of beating WU at their own game, let's walk through the life cycle of modern tech ventures.

First, someone has a bright idea. See earlier posts.

Then they need money. The PE and VC people aren't in it to save the whales. You'll need to show them how they can get a lot for a little. Guess who calls the shots at that point?

If the idea folks say "we don't really need to turn a profit" then they'd better have deep pockets. Because to do anything at even a modest scale is going to require servers, bandwidth, admins, developers, marketing, etc. Any startup, even one with modest goals, better have a plan to deal with success. Otherwise, eventually, users will start gang raping their brain child.

So... why was it possible 15-20 years ago to have a viable company that was user centric where people would cooperate and sacrifice to innovate or create a genuine community? First, because only a fraction of the world was online. Demand didn't as easily outstrip resources. The culture was fairly uniform. But most importantly, we didn't quite yet live in a world of cosmically-sized entitlement complexes.

In 2019 investors, creators, employees, and consumers expect it all. On the business side that means maximal profit (usually accomplished thru accounting trickery and debt). On the user side that means free stuff forever.

Two acquisitions and a slew of redesigns later (including one exclusively for advertisers), WU still hasn't shed enough features to please the money gods.

For the record, I don't actually think that downloading CSV data really costs WU anything. I think it's just symbolic of corporate culture in general. The way the bosses counter stakeholders who demand more is to institute austerity ("doing more with less"). That, of course, bleeds into performance, communication, loyalty, etc. The snake is eating its own tail.

I don't think every new idea has to fit that mold. Yes times have changed and we are more dependent on the Internet but the same opportunities exist today. When Google started they had no idea how to monetize, but the investors thought that they had to build it because what they saw was so great.

Likewise there are other system design models. Like Napster and Bitcoin and  BitTorrent and others, that are distributed decentralized technologies. You don't always need a server farm.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 12:56:25 PM by galfert »
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Offline txweather.org

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2019, 01:03:18 PM »
I am down for doing something on our own. We need servers? I got them! How many?  :twisted:

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Offline 92merc

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2019, 01:03:33 PM »
Let's see how long WU survives without data
Unfortunately, if you upload to CWOP, they'll steal your data anyway.
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Offline txweather.org

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2019, 01:07:49 PM »
I just went and check my stock. I got 4 IBM (HAHAHA the irony!) x3650 fully populated with 12TB SAS and 96GB of RAM. Dual Xeons 16 Cores.
They are sitting in a rack doing nothing. Let put this bad boys to work!

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Offline sacreyweather

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2019, 01:08:47 PM »
Let's see how long WU survives without data
Unfortunately, if you upload to CWOP, they'll steal your data anyway.

I have not seen my data on WU in several months and I upload to CWOP. I have not uploaded to WU in over 3 years, and have not missed them at all. Good riddance.
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Offline galfert

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2019, 01:19:10 PM »
Let's see how long WU survives without data
Unfortunately, if you upload to CWOP, they'll steal your data anyway.

I have not seen my data on WU in several months and I upload to CWOP. I have not uploaded to WU in over 3 years, and have not missed them at all. Good riddance.

You may not see your CWOP data directly. But your CWOP data is used in forecasting models.
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Offline WSWeather

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Re: Our wxforum WU community - turning the page
« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2019, 02:09:10 PM »
Weather.com doesn't require hundreds of thousands of personally owned stations and doesn't require time and effort to keep a knowledgeable community happy

You may not have noticed it if you don't go there often, but the WU PWS data is very much being used on weather.com, and without any credit or attribution.