Author Topic: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?  (Read 1396 times)

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Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2019, 03:44:12 AM »
Your CWOP update interval is set to every 15 minutes. Nothing wrong with that but you can increase it to every 5 minutes if you want. Doing so gives your data more granularity and is more current for times when weather is changing quickly.
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Online DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2019, 10:12:14 AM »

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I have made the correction on location, and looking at the map findu it appears much closer. SEE PHOTO. I also sent a reply email notifying them of the correction.

Changed update interval from 15 to 5 minutes, which makes more sense.

Hope these changes iron out with CWOP. If it doesn't I will likely be asking for further help.

Thanks galfert for your time and effort in this. Could not have done it w/o your attention to detail.

Appreciate all help.

DRoberts

« Last Edit: February 02, 2019, 10:14:51 AM by DRoberts »

Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2019, 10:42:08 AM »
Excellent. Looks good.

How many decimal places did WiFi Logger let you enter for your location?
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Online DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2019, 10:45:11 AM »
6 decimal places.

Don't know why I did not do that first time.

Map shows the move; hope the change message email gets through to them.

Foggy day here.

Offline gwminor48

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2019, 07:59:13 PM »
Quote
To: support-cwop@noaa.gov
Hello,
This is my request to be registered for CWOP for my data to flow to NOAA. I've checked my FindU position location and it is correct.

CWOP designator: FW4369
Email: <your email address>

Thanks,
<your name>
Then you need to wait a day or sometimes a few days depending on when MADIS updates its database. Then you'll show up on Mesowest and Gladstonefamily...etc.
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/F4369
[/quote]

This is probably an old post but I tried support-cwop@noaa.gov and got an error. I have since tried cwop-support@noaa.gov and didn't get an error so far.
Davis Vantage Vue
Cumulus 1.9.4
CWOP: FW4622

Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2019, 08:45:09 PM »
This is probably an old post but I tried support-cwop@noaa.gov and got an error. I have since tried cwop-support@noaa.gov and didn't get an error so far.

Thanks for catching that. That was my mistake. I've corrected the original post in this thread to have the correct email address.
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Online DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2019, 11:12:34 PM »
Joined CWOP and as far as I can tell my data is streaming to NOAA. Everything looks good to me. (If you see a problem, let me know.  :grin:)

When I was young, I kept daily records of my home weather daily in a book, and I subscribed to the daily mailed weather maps (remember those?) from the Weather Bureau (that's an old term). Never dreamed I would be able to own a weather station like the VP2 or that my data would be streamed to NOAA.

I don't have much of a math or engineering mind, but I am enjoying this and my small contribution.

Thanks for your help, everyone. =D&gt;


Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2019, 11:15:40 AM »
DRoberts,
Everything looks good except one thing.  Your pressure is too high. It looks like your WiFi Logger is sending Sea Level Pressure to CWOP instead of Altimeter Pressure. There are two ways to fix this:

1- Make sure you are on the latest firmware for your WiFi Logger. If this doesn't work then you should contact WiFi Logger support and ask them about making sure that the WiFi Logger properly sends Altimeter Pressure to CWOP instead of Sea Level Pressure. Let them know that the best method to do this is to use LOOP2 and obtain Absolute Pressure (also called Station Pressure) to then calculate Altimeter Pressure for use with CWOP.

2- You could do as some other people do and calibrate your console to Altimeter instead of Sea Level Pressure. Then you end up reporting Altimeter to all online services.*

* It is my personal opinion that option #2 I listed is not as elegant of a solution and think that is a hack solution. I know others on this forum will jump in and debate this argument. It is not my intention to convince anyone to use SLP vs. ALT. This is a heated debate. I have a Meteobridge and it calculates Altimeter but only uses it for CWOP...every other online service gets Sea Level Pressure sent from the Meteobridge. What some people do is they set their console to show Altimeter (that they calibrate as their Relative Pressure) and then they report Altimeter to all services. Or they use a Vantage Vue console (yes its compatible with the VP2 ISS) that knows how to calculate Altimeter (VP2 console doesn't). There are plenty of threads already debating this. I suggest anyone that is interested in knowing more just search this forum for the many threads already debating this. Bottom line is that there are arguments for both points of view. Do whatever you want with your weather station. Use whatever method you prefer. But it really does seem to me like the WiFi Logger is not calculating Altimeter for use with CWOP.

You could also ignore this issue and continue to send Sea Level Pressure to CWOP even though it isn't what they want you to send. It isn't optimal and you do affect your neighbors. Your neighbors may frown upon you for sending SLP to CWOP as you do affect their analysis quality reporting.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 11:22:06 AM by galfert »
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Offline gwminor48

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2019, 11:46:08 AM »
This is probably an old post but I tried support-cwop@noaa.gov and got an error. I have since tried cwop-support@noaa.gov and didn't get an error so far.

Thanks for catching that. That was my mistake. I've corrected the original post in this thread to have the correct email address.

Thanks @galfert, I'm glad I could do something useful.
Davis Vantage Vue
Cumulus 1.9.4
CWOP: FW4622

Online DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2019, 12:52:46 PM »
galfert,  It is my understanding that VP2 does not do the altimeter reading. So your 2 option below would be out:

2- You could do as some other people do and calibrate your console to Altimeter instead of Sea Level Pressure. Then you end up reporting Altimeter to all online services.*

I would like to look into your suggestion 1, since it seems best regarding accuracy.  Will try to learn more about how to do this and try it.

Thanks. I knew my pressure reading was high based on comparison w/ other stations nearby.

Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2019, 01:14:42 PM »
Yes you are correct the VP2 console does not do Altimeter as the Vue console does. But there is nothing stopping you from calibrating your Sea Level Pressure to show what would be Altimeter Pressure. It won't track perfectly as the formula for Altimeter is slightly different than Sea Level Pressure. And I've heard it is very problematic at altitudes above 3,000 feet. So it won't be perfect if you set you VP2 pressure to match Altimeter pressure but its a solution with the minor issues mentioned. And then you end up sending Altimeter to every service and you see this pseudo Altimeter on your console display too. Some people swear by this. I'm not one. I'm just being forthcoming will all the options. I'm sure I'm putting my biased slant on it and making it sound as a terrible option. I can't help it. But if you search this forum for Altimeter vs. Sea Level Pressure you'll get an earful from that other crowd.

So I think you are doing the right thing and trying my Option 1 first.

Actually there is an Option 3. Get rid of the WiFi Logger and try a Meteobridge Nano instead. That will do the Altimeter conversion for CWOP automatically and will use Sea Level Pressure for all other online services reporting. A little more expensive. More powerful yet still very simple to use and has a long track record and is well supported. Using this device also gives you the ability to publish to AmbientWeather.net and then if you have an Amazon Echo device or Google Home you can ask Alexa or Google Assistant by voice to give you your weather data and it will talk back all your station weather data....from anywhere...even from your mobile device by using the app.
https://www.ambientweather.com/amnano.html
(this is a WeatherBridge which is Ambient name for the Meteobridge devices they sell)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 02:43:03 PM by galfert »
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Online DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2019, 01:46:16 PM »
galfert, thanks again.

RE: Option 3....Money tree died due to cold weather. Cannot remember where I buried mayonnaise jars in yard (ground frozen anyway). Just got the WifiLogger as Christmas present.

So, I will go w/ option 1 for now.


Offline CW2274

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2019, 03:34:40 PM »
You could do as some other people do and calibrate your console to Altimeter instead of Sea Level Pressure. Then you end up reporting Altimeter to all online services.*

* It is my personal opinion that option #2 I listed is not as elegant of a solution and think that is a hack solution.
Before I got my Vue console, I used this "hack solution" with my VP2 console, and it worked quite well other than very high and low pressure, and I'm at over 2400'. You tout that only CWOP uses the altimeter (oh, btw, don't forget every media outlet in the country) and everyone else doesn't. Who's everyone else? Certainly no one I personally care about, others, no doubt. I even got WU to use my altimeter instead of MSLP, and if that throws off QC here and there, oh well, that's a drop in the bucket compared to all the other crappy data sent in the first place. Besides, I think people relying on others PWS data to compare to ones own is mostly fool's errand as is, simply for the reason I just stated.
If the OP chooses this "hack", he'll certainly not be alone.

Offline Old Tele man

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2019, 04:29:50 PM »
Yes, it's a "hack solution"...but it's a hack solution that WORKS(*).

CWOP wants expects to see ALT pressure because station ELEVATION is the only (and known) variable that determines the final number, unlike SLP which incorporates mean Temp, RH% and pressure...variables that NOT all CWOP stations present.



(*) I used it for awhile, then switched to a VUE console for 100% solution.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 04:33:21 PM by Old Tele man »
SYS: Davis VP2 Vue/WL-IP & Envoy8X/WL-USB;
DBX2 & DBX1 Precision Digital Barographs
CWOP: DW6988 - 2 miles NNE of Cortaro, AZ
WU - KAZTUCSO202, Countryside

Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2019, 04:33:44 PM »
CW2274 knew you wouldn't disappoint. Glad to have you join the conversation but let's not turn this into another Altimeter vs Sea Level Pressure discussion. I didn't say that only CWOP uses Altimeter. I said that in the Meteobridge the only online service that gets Altimeter reported is CWOP and then the Meteobridge sends Sea Level Pressure to all other online services.....because that is what those other services have requested and that is how the Meteobridge is designed. You are correct that it isn't only CWOP that uses Altimeter. Many people do as I stated, and yes the news media and airports and who ever else. So yes there are many places where you come across Altimeter Pressure.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 04:50:58 PM by galfert »
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Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2019, 05:01:57 PM »
Well it looks like I got the ball rolling over in the WiFi Logger thread. Hopefully we will have an answer soon regarding doing Altimeter with the WiFi Logger for CWOP.

https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34312.msg370222#msg370222

UPDATE: It is happening. New update should soon be available for the WiFi Logger to properly send Altimeter to CWOP.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 05:45:00 PM by galfert »
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Offline CW2274

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2019, 05:10:01 PM »
CW2274 knew you wouldn't disappoint. Glad to have you join the conversation but let's not turn this into another Altimeter vs Sea Level Pressure discussion.
;) Absolutely zero intention of doing so. There's two sides to every story (if not more in this case), just pointing out to the OP that using the altimeter is not a PWS death wish in case he and others didn't want to search forever to help find out why some choose to use what they do.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2019, 05:50:00 PM »
DRoberts how are you sending data to CWOP? Weatherlink 5.7 and up will do the calculation for you provided you have the correct elevation set.

ALTIMETER SETTING and CWOP APRS
The CWOP program in NOAA prefers to receive altimeter setting data rather than barometric
pressure. This feature in WeatherLink 5.7 automatically calculates the correct altimeter setting
using the user-specified elevation.

Link is here for pdf: https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/app_notes/AN_28-derived-weather-variables.pdf

Randy

Offline CW2274

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2019, 05:58:02 PM »
DRoberts how are you sending data to CWOP? Weatherlink 5.7 and up will do the calculation for you provided you have the correct elevation set.

ALTIMETER SETTING and CWOP APRS
The CWOP program in NOAA prefers to receive altimeter setting data rather than barometric
pressure. This feature in WeatherLink 5.7 automatically calculates the correct altimeter setting
using the user-specified elevation.

Link is here for pdf: https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/app_notes/AN_28-derived-weather-variables.pdf
I read this too, only thing is when I used my VP2, I don't recall WL recalculating anything and I never used less than 6.0.0.... If it did, I don't know how in the hell I'd miss that.... #-o

Online DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2019, 06:04:25 PM »
DRoberts how are you sending data to CWOP? Weatherlink 5.7 and up will do the calculation for you provided you have the correct elevation set.

ALTIMETER SETTING and CWOP APRS
The CWOP program in NOAA prefers to receive altimeter setting data rather than barometric
pressure. This feature in WeatherLink 5.7 automatically calculates the correct altimeter setting
using the user-specified elevation.

Link is here for pdf: https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/app_notes/AN_28-derived-weather-variables.pdf

Using WifiLogger

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2019, 06:09:29 PM »
DRoberts how are you sending data to CWOP? Weatherlink 5.7 and up will do the calculation for you provided you have the correct elevation set.

ALTIMETER SETTING and CWOP APRS
The CWOP program in NOAA prefers to receive altimeter setting data rather than barometric
pressure. This feature in WeatherLink 5.7 automatically calculates the correct altimeter setting
using the user-specified elevation.

Link is here for pdf: https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/app_notes/AN_28-derived-weather-variables.pdf
I read this too, only thing is when I used my VP2, I don't recall WL recalculating anything and I never used less than 6.0.0.... If it did, I don't know how in the hell I'd miss that.... #-o

Should do it automatically but you will need to take Vue off calculate altimeter and put back on slp if you want to test or switch back to VP2 console.

DRoberts how are you sending data to CWOP? Weatherlink 5.7 and up will do the calculation for you provided you have the correct elevation set.

ALTIMETER SETTING and CWOP APRS
The CWOP program in NOAA prefers to receive altimeter setting data rather than barometric
pressure. This feature in WeatherLink 5.7 automatically calculates the correct altimeter setting
using the user-specified elevation.

Link is here for pdf: https://www.davisinstruments.com/product_documents/weather/app_notes/AN_28-derived-weather-variables.pdf

Using WifiLogger

Okay, then not for you. Thanks
Randy

Online DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2019, 06:11:15 PM »
Well it looks like I got the ball rolling over in the WiFi Logger thread. Hopefully we will have an answer soon regarding doing Altimeter with the WiFi Logger for CWOP.

https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=34312.msg370222#msg370222

UPDATE: It is happening. New update should soon be available for the WiFi Logger to properly send Altimeter to CWOP.

I read the other thread. If I understand what is going on here, I just wait for this update before doing anything.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 06:13:47 PM by DRoberts »

Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2019, 07:36:34 AM »
WiFi Logger is now capable of sending Altimeter to CWOP. All you have to do is upgrade firmware to 2.12 or greater. As long as your console is calibrated and correct elevation is set you won't have to do anything else. Only CWOP will get Altimeter pressure. Incredible response time turn around by Wojtek.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 07:40:20 AM by galfert »
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Online DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2019, 09:59:40 AM »

Before I do any upgrades to firmware, I need to re-calibrate my barometric pressure. Problem: Not a lot of reference points. Airport AWOS in town 6 miles and another CWOP about 30 miles west. Scattered WU sites around, but I wonder about their accuracy sometimes.

Where should I go to find most accurate barometric pressure? AWOS is altimeter and I want barometer.

Suggestions appreciated.

Online galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2019, 10:49:35 AM »
I don't think you need to hold off on the firmware update to calibrate your barometer. I think your barometer is already pretty well calibrated. It may need a tiny bit of correction but probably not much. I've already looked at your barometer SLP calibration and that is how I was able to determine that something funky was going on with the WiFi Logger in respect to CWOP not getting Altimeter rather than a calibration issue. When I said I thought your pressure was too high, I meant that for Altimeter reading it was too high but I felt your station was calibrated correctly for SLP. Besides barometer calibration is something that you do from time to time and reporting to CWOP will help you with the gladstonefamily.net analysis and the MADIS quality control analysis and Mesowest QC.

Mesowest QC
https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/regress_database_top.cgi?stn=F4369

A popular place for barometer calibration is to get METAR data from aviationweather.gov:
https://aviationweather.gov/metar/data?ids=KHLC&format=decoded&date=&hours=1
https://aviationweather.gov/metar/data?ids=KHDE&format=decoded&date=&hours=1

Looks like KHLC and KHDE are a good places to start for you.

A couple other good places is to use Mesowest and NOAA MADIS Surface Maps and turn on to see NWS stations that can be more trusted and then after initial calibration then you can also add CWOP stations. I like using these maps because I can see more than one station at a time and often they get more frequent reporting than the typical hourly METAR update.

https://madis-data.ncep.noaa.gov/MadisSurface/

https://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/mesomap.cgi?state=KS&rawsflag=3

I also like to use Windy.com and turn on so you can see pressure isobars. This helps you know when is a better time to calibrate with KHLC and when not.

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You are already starting to fail MADIS QC with only one green thumbs up instead of two and 71% accuracy. The sooner you update the firmware the better. Worry about final calibration later.

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« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 11:58:37 AM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | ObserverIP | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Tele-Pole flag pole is here (not installed yet)