Author Topic: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?  (Read 2120 times)

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Offline DRoberts

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CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« on: December 25, 2018, 03:16:51 PM »
I have had my VP2+ operational since May this year and for Christmas I got a WiFi Logger. Installed smoothly and without any problems. Great device!

I established a WU acct and now my data is available online. However, I would like to join CWOP. Our local CoCoRaHS coordinator tells me that by doing so my data would be available to their NWS office.

1. Is CWOP difficult to get approval for?
2. Am I going to run into technical problems trying to maintain an approved site?
3. What is your assessment of CWOP? Impressions?
4. Anything else I should be aware of?

Please pardon my wording on any of the above questions if I sound like I don't know much on the subject because I don't. I am looking for information.

Thanks in advance, members, for any help you can give.

Take care

David


Offline CW2274

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2018, 03:39:01 PM »
Read up. Certainly more reliable than WU.
http://www.wxqa.com/

Offline PaulMy

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2018, 04:05:00 PM »
By all means sign up.  It wasn't the easiest I've ever done but not that complicated.  Just follow the instructions, and be patient for a day or 2.


Enjoy,
Paul
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 24-FARS Wireless
Envoy/USB DataLogger/Cumulus v.1.9.4   -   Vue Console/WiFiLogger/CumulusMX
Komoka, ON  Canada
www.komokaweather.ca   www.komokaweather.com   www.komokaweather.com/weather28/  
www.komokaweather.com/pws/index.php
Blitzortung Station #1076 www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung7/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=network&lang=en&bo_station_id=969


Offline DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2018, 04:09:23 PM »
I feel like I have some accurate data to share. I am the only CoCoRaHS observer in the county, 1000 sq mi, and the only other CWOP site is about 30 miles west.

Glad to hear I am not totally out of my mind considering it.

Thanks

Offline ocala

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2018, 05:01:49 PM »
David you will enjoy it. For one it's more accurate then your Davis gauge. I use the coco data as the official measurement for the  station.
Two, they keep a running total of your data if you don't enter it into your weather software.
And three as you mentioned the NWS uses your data.

Offline Randall Kayfes

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2019, 10:26:58 AM »
By joining CWOP I found several things became possible:


Yes you can do all the above through WeatherUnderground but the wind gust error which has not been fixed in over ten years is unacceptable to me.
Yes you can do all the above through Davis Weatherlink 2 but the whole sign in thing irritates some people (not me).

By the way I do contribute my data to both Davis and WU as well as CWOP

As a little side note I had a coworker ask me why I even owned a Personal Weather Station (PWS). 
I told him I enjoy having the weather data for my area not downtown some 30 miles away.
He then said I have this really cool weather app on my phone and it tells the weather for right here.
I asked to show me the weather app and told him the weather app says it's data is coming from the NWS DW4959 right?
He said yes - so I don't need your PWS! I told him DW 4959 was my weather station so he apparently did need my Weather Station.
As an apology gesture and thanks for sharing my data, he bought the coffee for the day  :lol:

Randall



Offline PaulMy

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 10:49:46 AM »
Quote
As an apology gesture and thanks for sharing my data, he bought the coffee for the day  :lol:
Well done Randall, and I hope it was a double-double...
Quote
Yes you can do all the above through Davis Weatherlink 2 but the whole sign in thing irritates some people (not me).
What place on the map can I find you?  Lots in Marana..

 
Enjoy,
Paul
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 24-FARS Wireless
Envoy/USB DataLogger/Cumulus v.1.9.4   -   Vue Console/WiFiLogger/CumulusMX
Komoka, ON  Canada
www.komokaweather.ca   www.komokaweather.com   www.komokaweather.com/weather28/  
www.komokaweather.com/pws/index.php
Blitzortung Station #1076 www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung7/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=network&lang=en&bo_station_id=969


Offline Randall Kayfes

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 01:18:37 PM »
Paul, on the WeatherLink map try a search for Starr Ridge, Tucson Estates, AZ... that should get you there.

Randall



Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 02:55:41 PM »
From WIKI
A CWOP home weather station. The mast supports a wind vane and anemometer, while the rain gauge and other sensors are installed near ground level.
The Citizen Weather Observer Program (CWOP) is a network of privately owned electronic weather stations concentrated in the United States but also located in over 150 countries. Network participation allows volunteers with computerized weather stations to send automated surface weather observations to the National Weather Service (NWS) by way of the Meteorological Assimilation Data Ingest System (MADIS). This data is then used by the Rapid Refresh (RAP) forecast model to produce short-term forecasts (3 to 12 hours into the future) of conditions across the contiguous United States. Observations are also redistributed to the public.

By all means, send data to CWOP. It's my first choice WU is just an afterthought being I have a personal website.
Randy

Offline DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 03:34:12 PM »
Thanks, everyone who has replied. I will have to wait until the govt shut down is resolved before I can join, but I think I will.

Offline PaulMy

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2019, 03:49:26 PM »
@DRoberts +1 on recommending to upload to CWOP.

@Randall
Quote
Paul, on the WeatherLink map try a search for Starr Ridge, Tucson Estates, AZ... that should get you there.
Found you...  and also from that just found a new embed full screen being added to weatherlink.com (maybe not new as I may have missed it)

Enjoy,
Paul
Davis Vantage Pro 2 Plus 24-FARS Wireless
Envoy/USB DataLogger/Cumulus v.1.9.4   -   Vue Console/WiFiLogger/CumulusMX
Komoka, ON  Canada
www.komokaweather.ca   www.komokaweather.com   www.komokaweather.com/weather28/  
www.komokaweather.com/pws/index.php
Blitzortung Station #1076 www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung7/america/index.php?bo_page=statistics&bo_show=network&lang=en&bo_station_id=969


Offline DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2019, 10:16:04 PM »
Well, after the government shut down I started the process of joining CWOP. Had some trouble w/ email, but I hope that is worked out. My location is marked on findu and when I click on the marker I see data from my PWS.

Anyone tell me what is next or what I should be waiting for from CWOP?

Thanks for the information I found on here.



Offline Jcsf420

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2019, 10:40:03 AM »
I've been lurking on this thread since it started and must say I've picked up a few things I didn't know I could do with my CWOP station, so thanks!
Just this week my CoCoRaHS rain gauge came in and I was wondering how you post readings to your station? I didn't know that was possible.
Thanks
John

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2019, 10:48:44 AM »
Nope not on Mesowest yet. But data is flowing into FindU.
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=FW4369&last=120
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=FW4369

Now that you have registered with CWOP and data is successfully flowing into FindU you need to do more 2 things:
1- Check that your station is correctly showing your location in FindU:
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=FW4369

2-  send an email to NOAA to be registered to be ingested by MADIS.
Send an email like this:

Quote
To: cwop-support@noaa.gov
Hello,
This is my request to be registered for CWOP for my data to flow to NOAA. I've checked my FindU position location and it is correct.

CWOP designator: FW4369
Email: <your email address>

Thanks,
<your name>
Then you need to wait a day or sometimes a few days depending on when MADIS updates its database. Then you'll show up on Mesowest and Gladstonefamily...etc.
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/F4369

« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 08:42:16 PM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2019, 12:47:49 PM »
Nope not on Mesowest yet. But data is flowing into FindU.
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=FW4369&last=120
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=FW4369

Now that you have registered with CWOP and data is successfully flowing into FindU you need to do more 2 things:
1- Check that your station is correctly showing your location in FindU:
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=FW4369

2-  send an email to NOAA to be registered to be ingested by MADIS.
Send an email like this:

Quote
To: support-cwop@noaa.gov
Hello,
This is my request to be registered for CWOP for my data to flow to NOAA. I've checked my FindU position location and it is correct.

CWOP designator: FW4369
Email: <your email address>

Thanks,
<your name>
Then you need to wait a day or sometimes a few days depending on when MADIS updates its database. Then you'll show up on Mesowest and Gladstonefamily...etc.
https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/F4369

Thanks. I have read your post and I have done all these steps; so, I guess I am waiting. Appreciate your detailed answer very much.

Another question: Is CWOP itself in good shape? That is, is it in any danger of going bust? I hope not.

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2019, 01:11:12 PM »
Another question: Is CWOP itself in good shape? That is, is it in any danger of going bust? I hope not.

Good question. It certainly does not exude much confidence in how dated both FindU and Gladstonefamily look. And the fact that they have not been updated in a number of years. Lots of dead links in both sites. I think though the APRS network which is external and separate is strong. Also from time to time you'll notice Gladstonefamily gives out some crazy analysis like it glitches up or something. That seems to happen at least once a year for a number of days. To me it feels like a ghost ship with nobody at the helm and it just seems to find its course despite hitting some rocks along the way. There is no response from the people that set these sites and services in action. I think that NOAA NWS will continue to run MADIS and Mesowest will continue to run well by The University of Utah. It is the FindU servers and the Gladstonefamily analysis servers that worry me. A lot of work went into both FindU and Gladstonefamily by different people. I think they should be commended for the hard work but I think that it might be time for them to hand over the management to a new team to improve the look of the sites and to fix typos and dead links and update the information as there is some info that is not 100% accurate anymore. Who knows maybe someday someone might separately create a new service that also ties into NWS and MADIS.

But regardless I'd say it only helps to continue to use and support these services. Its the best we've got. But as a backup I send my data to other places and I also back it up to SQL so if one day I can send historical data somewhere or if I decide to use some new software I have all my data.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 02:42:06 PM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2019, 02:15:10 PM »
galfert, Thanks for the detailed opinion/analysis.


Offline DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2019, 06:23:17 PM »
Gentlepeople,

Attached is a photo that shows where FindU has placed my PWS and the blue dot is the actual location. The difference is 120 feet.

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Question:

Should I go through the process of correcting this difference or call it good. 

Appreciate a reply. Take care.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 06:31:32 PM by DRoberts »

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2019, 06:37:49 PM »
Post a screenshot of your WiFi Logger location configuration. I discovered a bug in the Meteobridge conversion of lat/lon to the Degrees Minutes Decimal Minutes that CWOP uses. I reported the bug and it was fixed with the next update. If I can see what you entered in for location into your WiFi Logger I can do the conversion and see if it too suffers from a conversion error or if you just need to enter in a different location into the WiFi Logger that would be more accurate.

Essentially where you show up on FindU is a result of your software. In this case the WiFi Logger. You can see the conversion to DM.m that the WiFi logger has done by looking at your FindU Raw Data:
FW4369>APRS,TCPXX*,qAX,CWOP-5:@012315z3944.64N/09912.96W_163/008g009t051r000p000P000h37b10186.WFL

Everything between the z and the _ is your DM.m location: 3944.64N/09912.96W

And please don't call it LORAN. It isn't LORAN. That is one of the many errors with the CWOP websites. It is just DM.m or "Degrees Minutes Decimal Minutes."

If anyone is interested in my back story regarding this look here:
https://www.wxforum.net/index.php?topic=35144.0

« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 05:49:34 PM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline DRoberts

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2019, 07:58:22 PM »
galfert, here is the location:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Can't help but say I am not looking forward to get this changed, having read some horror stories about making changes/correction on CWOP. Hope I am wrong.  :-)

Your help appreciated.

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2019, 09:32:34 PM »
Good news. The WiFi Logger does not have a conversion bug.

But there is a reason for the discrepancy you are seeing in your location. The problem is that you have entered your location into the WiFi Logger with not enough Degrees Decimal precision. The Blue location you have marked is not at 39.744/-99.216. Because that coordinate location is actually this:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

So the real coordinates for the Blue dot you marked requires more precision.
Your real location is 39.744260 / - 99.215656

That translates to this:

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

Which then when converted to DM.m that CWOP uses will then convert to: 3944.66 / -9912.94

As you can see from the new numbers you'll end up a bit more North and a bit more East which will land you on the Blue dot or pretty darn close.

So all you have to do is enter in 39.744260 / - 99.215656 for you location into the WiFi Logger and then check the FindU map again. If you can't enter in more digits than you already have then that is a bad limitation of the WiFi Logger. Unless the manufacturer of the WiFi Logger issues and update for this added precision then you are stuck with what you've got.  So enter in as many digits as you can.

Let us know how it goes

WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
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Offline ValentineWeather

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Randy

Offline galfert

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Re: CWOP: To join or not? Issues I will face?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2019, 10:41:34 PM »
Your registered location with CWOP also needs updating. Send them an email cwop-support@noaa.gov with your more precise Degrees Decimal of 39.744260 / -99.215656.

Currently shows:
Registered Location
Latitude: 39 44' 38" N (deg min sec), 39.7440 (decimal), 3944.64N (LORAN)
Longitude: 99 12' 58" W (deg min sec), -99.2160 (decimal), 09912.96W (LORAN)

https://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/F4369
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 11:24:06 AM by galfert »
WS-2000 & WS-2902A | Ecowitt GW1000 | WeatherBridge (Meteobridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole