Author Topic: Guess there's no VP3 coming  (Read 5486 times)

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Offline jzinckgra

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Guess there's no VP3 coming
« on: December 13, 2018, 08:46:58 PM »
So I post a question on Facebook at Davis Instruments about when/if the VP3 is coming. Their response: "No, cuz Vantage Pro2 is pretty darned great!".

Offline blizzardof78

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 08:53:06 PM »
That's too bad. I was looking forward to seeing how they handled the issue of the dull background with black digits on the Vantage Pro, the Vue, and so on, which is basically impossible to read from 2+ feet away in normal room lighting conditions. (See photo) Ridiculous.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 11:45:04 PM »
Try turning it on :)

Offline blizzardof78

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 11:54:01 PM »
LOL I have, but since it's running on power supplied by the laptop, it only stays on for a brief time.

Offline Mattk

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2018, 12:49:26 AM »
Colour screen then you need 3 laptops to power it :) and then would still only stay on for a brief time.

Offline johnd

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2018, 03:43:38 AM »
But if you can view your data locally on a smartphone or tablet app then do you really need a separate colour console? :evil:
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 04:20:27 AM by johnd »
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Online DaleReid

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2018, 09:07:52 AM »
Do I need a separate color (or other perhaps readable compared to the piece of.. that the VP2) console is, and the answer is a resounding YES!

I want to be able to see data displayed immediately by glancing up from what I'm doing.  I want to see data as it comes in from the sensors, not through a processor or an additional computer sending things over the internet to a third party.

For the very same reasons I chaff at the idea that my security cameras need to send their images over the internet to a (hackable) site and I have to use internet and wifi to see them, yes.

When the power goes out, the internet goes down and so on, I want a stand alone unit (like Texas Weather, like Peet Brothers, like Rainwise, need I go on?) that I can look to see my current readings.

Because that's what I want.

Davis has a for-crap display.  They have a very nice package of sensors otherwise, and do very well as the elephant in the room as far as market share is concerned.  Their weak spot is their VP2 console, which when you look at the timeline, has had absolutely no attempt at improvement.  I know few who have one that hasn't complained about the readability.  That's the big problem, not functionality or capabilities.

They seem to have confidence that they still sell a lot of them despite a known weakness, and have turned a deaf ear to their customers.

Now, I'm off to have a pleasant Christmas season, knowing I won't have to wish for a VP3, at least for the time being.  On the other had the Osborne effect may worrying them and having them to do fire-sale prices to clear their inventory before they ever do update a long overdue deficiency.

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Offline johnd

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2018, 09:26:30 AM »
I want to be able to see data displayed immediately by glancing up from what I'm doing.  I want to see data as it comes in from the sensors, not through a processor or an additional computer sending things over the internet to a third party.

But I'm not assuming use of the Internet. Say the data went straight from an Envoy to your smartphone or tablet eg via WiFi. Would that be OK?
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Online DaleReid

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 10:28:17 AM »
John,
I guess I missed your point initially, but to some degree, it would be better, and of course offer the flexibility of seeing your station, within the range of your wifi, without being near the console.

But, in my shop and workbench and in the family room, I have displays for (at least) the Rainwise Oracles, and I've gotten used to glancing up while doing something and seeing how fast the wind gust just was, if it had started to rain, and if the other factors I'd be interested in were visible, without hauling out the cellphone, opening security, punching the right icon and so on.

Ideally your solutions would be easily available, and gives visibility to data within the range of the LAN.

Ideally my solution would be handsfree, instant, no device needed, available to all  with our without the application on their devices and non-intrusive.  If we're watching a movie and I want to see data, I glance at the console on the wall, illuminated enough to see the data either with LEDs or a decent LCD display (which I don't think there is one defender of Davis's choice, other than their PR department).   My wife bellyaches when I haul out the smartphone during a movie, or show, and to some degree I see her point.  It is a distraction to others in the room.

Different needs for differed situations. 
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Offline davefr

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2018, 11:25:33 AM »

Ideally my solution would be handsfree, instant, no device needed, available to all  with our without the application on their devices and non-intrusive.  If we're watching a movie and I want to see data, I glance at the console on the wall, illuminated enough to see the data either with LEDs or a decent LCD display (which I don't think there is one defender of Davis's choice, other than their PR department).   My wife bellyaches when I haul out the smartphone during a movie, or show, and to some degree I see her point.  It is a distraction to others in the room.

Different needs for differed situations.

^^^You hit the nail on the head and that's the reason easy to read consoles are so important.

Cell phones are OK for remote monitoring but when I'm at home I don't want to grab a phone, turn on a phone, launch a weather app and then put the phone back in it's charger.  The whole family and I want many frequent and quick glances that take less <1/2 second along with the visuals in order to get a  brief snapshot of what's happening outside. (all independent from the internet)

Once Ambient or Acurite come out with a spread spectrum 1000' range robust ISS solution with WiFi color console with touch screen capability, Davis will be dead.

Davis is too stupid or lazy to realize that they better obsolete their own products before a competitor does it to them. (Consumer Electronics Marketing 101)

« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 11:33:44 AM by davefr »

Online DaleReid

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2018, 11:53:39 AM »
Dave
I don't know Davis's corporate management thought processes on this.

They realize they have an extensive list of options and stations.

They have continuously updated the rain gauge, the solar/uv sensor array, the temperature and humidity sensors and so on.

The glaring neglected or ignored item is the console.  Do they have seven million of them premade and sitting in a warehouse somewhere and have to use them up before working on the next generation?

Just as cell phones have had evolving screen types making them (somewhat) easier to use in bright light, other items too have improved, such as my home thermostat (Honeywell, I think) that is very readable, and is visible from across the room, with numbers large enough to be read, again in relation to the Rainwise and Peet and TWI consoles for readability.

For those that can get by on a cell phone or I've seen folks using their otherwise retired tablets as a display screen, that's fine.  But indeed Davis has ignored repeated discussions here (which they should be monitoring if they want to know what their hard core and other users want) along with repeated mailings and emailings from users, too.

Other than the ubiquitous April Fool's Day announcements, year after year this same thing goes on.

I am pleased to hear of a new third party supplied gizmo that plugs into a VP2 console to make it WiFi capable and very enabled with other functions, again something that wasn't easy to do, and should have been something that Davis had pioneered a long time ago.

I hope, but seriously doubt, that they'll finally release something new before I die or can no longer work on wx station stuff and will make it functional rather than overly cutsie.

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Offline davefr

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2018, 12:13:31 PM »
All Davis needs to do is contract out the design and manufacture of a VP3 integrated console/WiFi hub to a Chinese design house with expertise in color LCD/touch screen and WiFi  technology.  Davis provides the ISS to console radio design and the subcon. does the rest.

A Davis ISS with a Ambient WS-2000 "like" WiFi integrated color console but with touch screen capability would be a home run.

I'm surprised Davis isn't getting pissed that all these 3rd parties are providing innovative connectivity solutions to their antiquated product line and letting the l revenue potential slip thru their fingers.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 12:21:17 PM by davefr »

Offline johnd

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2018, 12:42:50 PM »
A Davis ISS with a Ambient WS-2000 "like" WiFi integrated color console but with touch screen capability would be a home run.

But you're still not answering the question of why it needs to be a display console. If the data can be seen easily and locally on a smartphone or tablet (and without invoking the Internet) then why go to the extra cost of having a display on the receiving device?

Edit: Just to be clear, something like an Amazon Fire 7 tablet (or Fire 8 if you can afford a little more) could make a perfectly good dedicated display that's portable too.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 01:01:01 PM by johnd »
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Offline davefr

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2018, 01:25:03 PM »
A Davis ISS with a Ambient WS-2000 "like" WiFi integrated color console but with touch screen capability would be a home run.

But you're still not answering the question of why it needs to be a display console. If the data can be seen easily and locally on a smartphone or tablet (and without invoking the Internet) then why go to the extra cost of having a display on the receiving device?

Edit: Just to be clear, something like an Amazon Fire 7 tablet (or Fire 8 if you can afford a little more) could make a perfectly good dedicated display that's portable too.

Ideally the console is also the portal to the internet via WiFi so it serves a dual role. (ex: WS-2000) No need for separate add ons like weatherbridge IP, ethernet cables, third party bridges/adapters, etc. (Only two components, ISS and WiFi Console).  It's also shared by an entire family vs individual cell phones.

Yes, one could "roll their own" display solution using a generic tablet and create a spreadsheet of data to display. However I think most customers want a plug and play solution vs. a "roll your own" solution.

The other factor is that a dedicated VP3 console could be made to optimize the way weather information is displayed.   The visuals on the WS-2000 display are a great example and very impressive.  I can get a snapshot of environmental conditions without having to read a spreadsheet of data. The icons and visuals can give me a summary more efficiently then an array of just data.

My idea of weather station "Nirvana" would be Davis ISS + Ambient WS-2000 console but with touch screen and at <$500.

To each his own. I'm just a consumer, not a weather pro.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 01:27:21 PM by davefr »

Offline johnd

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2018, 01:52:12 PM »
Yes, one could "roll their own" display solution using a generic tablet and create a spreadsheet of data to display. However I think most customers want a plug and play solution vs. a "roll your own" solution.

Yes, you could roll your own, but there's probably no need for that these days. Many apps these days are browser apps and you can get a full graphic weather dashboard (pre-written and supplied by eg the manufacturer) displayed on any tablet. So you just need your receiver to contain web server functionality, which is not a big deal, and to serve data to the browser app running on your tablet. In many ways it would be indistinguishable from a display console (and probably have a better display into the bargain), other than not having any physical buttons.

[In fact (and I don't know whether or not it will play out this way) there's the potential to have a variety of different weather dashboards each feeding off the same data feed and the user chooses whichever 'console' design most appeals to them.]
« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 02:12:27 PM by johnd »
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Offline CNYWeather

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2018, 02:11:58 PM »
I'm surprised Davis isn't getting pissed that all these 3rd parties are providing innovative connectivity solutions to their antiquated product line and letting the l revenue potential slip thru their fingers.

My thoughts too. I'm really surprised they have let these all continue for now.
Tony




Offline Mattk

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2018, 02:23:31 PM »
All Davis needs to do is contract out the design and manufacture of a VP3 integrated console/WiFi hub to a Chinese design house with expertise in color LCD/touch screen and WiFi  technology.  Davis provides the ISS to console radio design and the subcon. does the rest...

They do that then they have lost the plot and succumbed to the lowest common denominator, bad suggestion.


Offline davefr

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2018, 02:57:52 PM »
All Davis needs to do is contract out the design and manufacture of a VP3 integrated console/WiFi hub to a Chinese design house with expertise in color LCD/touch screen and WiFi  technology.  Davis provides the ISS to console radio design and the subcon. does the rest...

They do that then they have lost the plot and succumbed to the lowest common denominator, bad suggestion.

Aside from the ISS and spread spectrum technology,  Davis is already the lowest common denominator in internet connectivity and display.   

Let's say I want a Davis ISS and the 1000' range to a hub with WiFi the rest of the way to a router. Then let's say and am willing to "roll my own" permanent console with an interface that's more then a spreadsheet of numbers. What do I piece together to implement it? 

Any real world examples?

« Last Edit: December 14, 2018, 03:13:05 PM by davefr »

Offline 92merc

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2018, 03:13:06 PM »
I'm wondering if the original response on the FB post was meant to be more tongue in cheek funny comment.  They think the current VP2 does a lot, just buy this one now.  No need to wait.

As far as the WiFi goes, I think the communication between the ISS and console needs to stay where it is.  The current frequency setup does a decent job and it has error correction built in.  If they stick to WiFi protocols, you'll likely get a lot of dropped connections and interference with multiple access points in probable range.

What Davis needs to do is update the console to just have a WiFi receiver chip built in and USB connection.  Sure they'd lose out on some logger sales by integrating it.  But it'll be much simpler in the long run.  And there are cheap color displays out there.  Hell, how long ago did Nintendo start with hand held color consoles?  It doesn't need to be OLED crisp.  Just something low power and reasonable sharpness.
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2018, 03:13:44 PM »
All Davis needs to do is contract out the design and manufacture of a VP3 integrated console/WiFi hub to a Chinese design house with expertise in color LCD/touch screen and WiFi  technology.  Davis provides the ISS to console radio design and the subcon. does the rest...

They do that then they have lost the plot and succumbed to the lowest common denominator, bad suggestion.

Aside from the ISS and spread spectrum technology,  Davis is already the lowest common denominator in internet connectivity and display.
:lol: Yeah, that's all....I'm mean, after all, it's only a WX station, who needs quality data and reliability. :roll:  And whatta ya know, bottom feeder or not, I hook to the internet just fine, and believe it or not, I can read my display too! \:D/

Offline Mattk

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2018, 03:52:37 PM »
Yes many appear to be overly engrossed in the glitz and glamour of the outside and pay very little attention to what is behind the light show, this is well known as the mudguard principle, shiny on top and sh!t underneath :)

Offline CW2274

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2018, 04:17:37 PM »
Yes many appear to be overly engrossed in the glitz and glamour of the outside and pay very little attention to what is behind the light show,
Exactly, which frankly, boggles my mind. I paid for what sits OUT the door, not IN, but guess what, the IN stuff works just as well, and that's after 11+ years and the beat still goes on. =D&gt;

Online ocala

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2018, 04:51:49 PM »
Yes many appear to be overly engrossed in the glitz and glamour of the outside and pay very little attention to what is behind the light show,
Exactly, which frankly, boggles my mind. I paid for what sits OUT the door, not IN, but guess what, the IN stuff works just as well, and that's after 11+ years and the beat still goes on. =D&gt;
Agree. The sensors and the quality of them is why I bought a Davis. The thought of a better display has never entered my mind. But that's just me.
Everyone's different.

Offline vreihen

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2018, 07:21:04 PM »
Davis makes a display?  :shock:  My VP2 feeds a wireless Envoy, with no console whatsoever.....
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Offline CW2274

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Re: Guess there's no VP3 coming
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2018, 07:31:24 PM »
Davis makes a display?  :shock:  My VP2 feeds a wireless Envoy, with no console whatsoever.....
My console sits right next to my TV, but since I have WL HDMI-ed from the laptop straight into the TV, that's my "display".