Author Topic: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?  (Read 15792 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline arrowspace90

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • Vantage Pro II, tripod mount, 30 feet elevation
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #125 on: October 18, 2019, 12:38:56 PM »
WF says they can help you calibrate your haptic rain sensor if you are able to place a manual gauge next to it for comparisons.

Offline doubleohwhatever

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #126 on: October 18, 2019, 12:48:49 PM »
WF says they can help you calibrate your haptic rain sensor if you are able to place a manual gauge next to it for comparisons.
Are they not calibrated at the factory?

Offline weather34

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 995
    • https://weather34.com/homeweatherstation
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #127 on: October 18, 2019, 01:16:44 PM »
in reference to rain nope whole rain thing is a mess , is it a total lack of understanding? also uv is questionable and humidty can be questionable if you look at vreihen post a few back the humidity flat lines or maxes out at 90% whilst his vp2 fluctuates between 90 and 93% on that particular day . personally all this AI talk or Continuous learning is over my head sounds more like silicon valley tech talk. so called continuous CL has never worked on any of the units ive had , especially if you have a reboot for whatever reason earlier this month I saw uv8 on a non cloudy quite a way off for this time of year 5-6 is possible beginning of october when directly overhead. so i couldn’t attribute it to cloud reflection..

so lets see how this new pretty looking thing pans out who knows may be it will put us skeptics to rest.. :grin:



Offline arrowspace90

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • Vantage Pro II, tripod mount, 30 feet elevation
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #128 on: October 18, 2019, 01:56:31 PM »
I think the Tempest has few changes if any to the rain sensor or the wind sensor.  It's mostly the inclusion of the "Air" stuff into the "Sky" unit.  Then they will have some AI forecasting software, but that doesn't affect any rain sensing.

I'm not in the know about how the haptic sensing is supposed to work.  I simply noted on their community forum that for a person complaining that his rain totals were wrong, they said they could adjust, "calibrate" it further and especially if he could put a manual gauge next to it so they have a better idea about where the readings need to be.

I have a manual gauge just a foot from my Sky, and I may end up taking them up on the manual calibration.  But so far, the Rain Check did subtract off the r
"rain" that was recorded when I moved the Sky closer by 2 feet to the manual gauge.  We haven't had much rain at all here in north central Texas for 6 weeks for me to make any other rain comparisons.

I just ignore the low wind readings on my sky because it's only at 6 or 7 feet above the ground and between houses.  I can just let it go because I have an annemometer (Davis Pro II) up on the roof at 30 feet, and it gets LOTS of wind.

Offline arrowspace90

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • Vantage Pro II, tripod mount, 30 feet elevation
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #129 on: October 18, 2019, 02:01:55 PM »
WF says they can help you calibrate your haptic rain sensor if you are able to place a manual gauge next to it for comparisons.
Are they not calibrated at the factory?
They're supposedly calibrated by CL, "continuous learning", and they claim that the haptics will "learn" from each new rainfall, with the input from "Rain Check" to get better and more accurate readings.  I'm merely repeating what I read from their website.

Offline weather34

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 995
    • https://weather34.com/homeweatherstation
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #130 on: October 18, 2019, 02:07:32 PM »
as i said its gone over my head , a manual gauge so put that into perspective how does the sky get its continuous data or is it just calibrated after an event then  you pass it on .

haptic sensor look up piezoelectric because thats the sensor type it measures vibrations or sound ive yet to fathem which one . i have used an identical component I used on a acoustic guitar diy pickup.. took me a while to realize why the sensor looked so familiar when i first took a sky unit apart. i guess its what goes on after sensor picks up a vibration and attempts converts it to a measure but im wondering or guessing if there is some what if scenarios in the formula.




Offline arrowspace90

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
  • Vantage Pro II, tripod mount, 30 feet elevation
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #131 on: October 25, 2019, 10:16:29 AM »
We got a big rain event in the DFW last night and I was ready with my rooftop mounted Davis Pro bucket tipper (up at 30 feet) and a Stratus manual gauge down at 6 feet with the Sky 1 foot from it.

The rain was very heavy for some time, and as long as that was the case, the Sky was doing a great job, right in line with both the Stratus and the roof gauge. In fact, Sky got out to a .10 in lead over the too high Davis, as one might expect.

But as the rain intensity settled to a slower, steady precip, the Sky started to lag. I watched it give back it’s .10 and eventually more. This morning, a check of the manual gauge confirmed what I saw.
Roof, 2.47 inches Stratus manual gauge, 2.60 inches Sky, 1.98.

Just now, I see that Rain Check raised the Sky to 2.16 in. Better, but still significantly below the 2.60 inches of the Stratus 1 foot from it.

Offline doubleohwhatever

  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #132 on: October 25, 2019, 04:45:15 PM »
The rain was very heavy for some time, and as long as that was the case, the Sky was doing a great job
...
But as the rain intensity settled to a slower, steady precip, the Sky started to lag.

My Sky unit exhibited the same behavior. It was fairly accurate during heavy downpours but anything lighter and the rain total was always lower than what it should have been.

Interestingly, I have a Vaisala WXT536 which uses a very similar (if not identical) rain sensor technology. It behaves the same. Works okay during heavy rain but under-reports during lighter to moderate rain.

WeatherFlow has pointed to unwanted vibration as a reason for inaccurate rain readings but the WXT536 is built much more firmly (with a steel sensor plate) and it still exhibits the same behavior.

After trialing both of these units (Sky and WXT536) I honestly think the haptic technology just isn't suited for rain detection. This is what has me scratching my head a bit with the Tempest. Either they've vastly improved the haptic technology or they're a bit crazy for sticking with the same flawed rain sensor tech. Time will tell but I'm not going to be at the front of the line to try it out this time around.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 04:50:42 PM by doubleohwhatever »

Offline nincehelser

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3337
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #133 on: October 25, 2019, 05:07:26 PM »
Just now, I see that Rain Check raised the Sky to 2.16 in. Better, but still significantly below the 2.60 inches of the Stratus 1 foot from it.

Here in Round Rock my Sky read about 0.2" too high.  Rain Check brought it down to 0.1" too high.  (It was 1.57" according to my Atlas)

I wish Rain Check would note how much it corrected to judge the Sky's performance.  Is there anywhere you can see that?

Offline tweatherman

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #134 on: November 26, 2019, 07:57:07 PM »
There's an ASOS (KMGJ) across town to the west, but it is in an open area with crazy wind exposure and I'm lucky to see 29 MPH peak gusts.  There's also KSWF about the same distance to the east.

WeatherFlow just added the barometer to their continuous learning (CL) algorithm in the past week or so, and I just peeked at the ASOS to see that I was reading 30.086 in the WF app when the ASOS was reading 30.07.  (weewx was reading 30.06, because I had a pre-CL adjustment hard-coded into weewx.  I have made no attempt to calibrate the Davis barometer.

https://smartweather.weatherflow.com/share/910/grid

One can never have too many weather stations...and they all basically read the same thing most of the time:





I'm even more curious than you are about if the ultrasonic is going to drop out in 20+ MPH winds and moderate/heavy rain.....
I've been watching several of these stations with in 20 mile radius of my house and seem to be with in a degree for temp., hum. with in 3%, barometric Pres. usually a little lower .01-.02 inhg. rain seemed to be with in .02 and wind direction pretty close. Anyone have any idea on what the new Tempst stations will sell for when released?

Thanks,
twetherman

Offline vreihen

  • El Niño chaser
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1078
  • K2BIG
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #135 on: November 27, 2019, 07:58:27 AM »
Anyone have any idea on what the new Tempst stations will sell for when released?

From the Kickstarter campaign "Save $X off retail price" discounts, I calculate:

Base kit w/WiFi Hub: $329

Storm/Fire kit w/cellular Hub and 7-day Hub backup battery: $399

Remote/Autonomous kit w/cellular Hub, weatherproof solar enclosure: $449

If you want in for less, it appears that there were four cancellations on the $229 deal on Kickstarter that are again up for grabs.

FWIW, I am in on the Kickstarter full Remote/Autonomous kit, which I plan to install on some wooded mountaintop property that my family owns because the place has interesting weather.....
WU Gold Stars for everyone! :lol:

Offline MacGarage

  • Evaluation Unit: Ecowitt WH2320E Weather Station
  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #136 on: June 18, 2020, 08:12:38 AM »
A new WeatherFlow review was posted today...from the review, this looks like a promising weather station:

https://www.techhive.com/article/3563348/weatherflow-tempest-review.html


Online ocala

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3878
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #137 on: June 18, 2020, 11:25:10 AM »
A new WeatherFlow review was posted today...from the review, this looks like a promising weather station:

https://www.techhive.com/article/3563348/weatherflow-tempest-review.html
This quote from that review.
"Not only that, WeatherFlow’s haptic rain sensor can also measure the intensity of rainfall. I can only wonder if it could be upgraded down the road to detect precipitation types as well. That, however, involves costly and complicated technology. Whatever the case, I found rainfall measurements generally accurate (further testing is needed here to make a full determination), so WeatherFlow’s new method of rainfall measurement gets a thumbs up from me at the moment."
The fact that his control data is a nearby NWS station is crazy. Specifically when it comes to rain data. His quote "I couldn’t spot any inconsistencies in the data from the control data I used, which is a nearby National Weather Service observing station", is hogwash.  How do you in good faith write a review with control data like that.
Listen I'm not saying this station is bad. I know he said it needs more testing but to write a review without side by side testing is ridiculous and to give it an initial thumbs up is crazy.

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5061
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #138 on: June 18, 2020, 12:47:20 PM »
I agree not only is it hogwash but one of the ways that WeatherFlow was able to make the haptic rain sensor more accurate was to implement cloud AI into the equation meaning the rain data is being adjusted based on other crowd sourced data. So if the rain matches NWS data...well then ding ding ding! There is a clue.  :roll:

There is no console with this station. You can't see the data directly from the sensors. The data comes from the cloud after it has been manipulated.

I could be wrong. But color me unimpressed. I really haven't looked that much into it to really know for sure. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 12:49:48 PM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge (WeatherBridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline tweatherman

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #139 on: June 19, 2020, 06:40:23 PM »
Just curious what are the specs. on this unit? I couldn’t find any information on this from their website.

Thanks,
tweatherman

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5061
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #140 on: June 19, 2020, 06:51:07 PM »
TechHive article link posted by MacGarage says that final specs have not been released. But I haven't seen any specs.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge (WeatherBridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline tweatherman

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #141 on: June 19, 2020, 07:27:43 PM »
Just curious how a weather station of that magnitude doesn’t have specs. published yet? Will not even consider buying until specs. are published.

Thanks,
tweatherman

Offline vreihen

  • El Niño chaser
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1078
  • K2BIG
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #142 on: June 19, 2020, 07:43:29 PM »
TechHive article link posted by MacGarage says that final specs have not been released. But I haven't seen any specs.

That click-bait article was full of misinformation and lies...from the very first sentence:

Quote
I’ve been trying to get my hands on a WeatherFlow Tempest for years. When I first spotted the device on Indiegogo in late 2016 (that’s not a typo), it sounded like nothing else available at the time.

The Tempest wasn't even announced for pre-production backing until November, 2019!!!

Here's some more info that the alleged author apparently did not find:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/weatherflow/tempest-a-revolutionary-personal-weather-system


WU Gold Stars for everyone! :lol:

Offline tweatherman

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #143 on: June 19, 2020, 07:53:17 PM »
Not bad specs. but a little on the lagging side for update for temp. and humidity. I also wish the temp. would go down to at least -40F.

Thanks,
Tim

Offline galfert

  • Global Moderator
  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5061
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #144 on: June 19, 2020, 08:15:25 PM »
Rain accuracy specs (lower % is better):

Tempest: ±10%
Ecowitt WH40: ±5%
Davis VP2: ±4% (±5% when rate is +2in/hr)
Acurite Atlas: ±5%
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 08:19:53 PM by galfert »
Ecowitt GW1000 | Meteobridge (WeatherBridge)
WU: KFLWINTE111  |  PWSweather: KFLWINTE111
CWOP: FW3708  |  AWEKAS: 14814
Windy: pws-f075acbe
Weather Underground Issue Tracking
Tele-Pole

Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5394
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #145 on: June 19, 2020, 08:38:05 PM »
Rain accuracy specs (lower % is better):

Tempest: ±10%
Ecowitt WH40: ±5%
Davis VP2: ±4% (±5% when rate is +2in/hr)
Acurite Atlas: ±5%
You forgot a couple, one tipper, one static...Rainwise 2%, Stratus 1%.

Offline txbayou

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #146 on: June 20, 2020, 08:36:16 AM »
IMO rain measurement is the Achilles heal of the WF smart weather (original model) system. Between .25 and .75 inches, my collocated Acurite 5/1, Stratus gauge, and WF smart will often show almost identical readings for rain. In other scenarios, the WF is not dependable.

Rain measurement was also the prime complaint of posters on the WF forum IIRC. The Tempest model, when first described there by WF employees, had lots of enticing, very generous warranty and satisfaction guarantees (they don't mention these much in subsequent announcements or literature, AFAIK). I  think there was a very long time frame for return for refund no questions asked. However my WF enthusiasm is sufficiently dampened that I'll wait to read lots of real life performance reports, here or in the WF forum, no matter what the warranty or purchase price discounts, before I would (ever) buy a Tempest.

I'm sure the WF folks are fine people. But it did bug me when they all but acknowledged that the haptic system is not accurate, and then kept everybody on alert for months, waiting for the promised magical software fix. That turned out to be the system that uses some kind of crowd source measures from nearby supposedly accurate sources, and that means that for accurate measuring rain at my location, the WF is of almost no use.

Weatherflow reps have even written in the forum that a mechanical rain measuring system is being entertained as a future option, which sounds to me like another way of saying that the issues with the haptic sensors are here to stay.

Here's what I do like: the AIR half of the system, for temp/RH and lightning works fine and was convenient  to mount in a shady location. I was disappointed that WF integrated everything into one unit for the Tempest, since this means that the jury is still out on how accurate the Tempest temp reads will be over time. They claim to have built compensation into the software, so I have to wonder if this is not yet again some kind of crowd-sourced data, in which case I don't want one.

The WF mounting system is great for somebody like me who has very limited mounting locations. I'd wish that every manufacturer would make their station attachable to ready-made camera-mount hardware.





Online ocala

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3878
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #147 on: June 20, 2020, 10:00:14 AM »
Plus or minus 10% on rainfall accumulation?
That's a joke. How can you deliver a product like that.
It's a great concept but one that needs a lot work.



Online ocala

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3878
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #148 on: June 20, 2020, 10:02:11 AM »
Rain accuracy specs (lower % is better):

Tempest: ±10%
Ecowitt WH40: ±5%
Davis VP2: ±4% (±5% when rate is +2in/hr)
Acurite Atlas: ±5%
You forgot a couple, one tipper, one static...Rainwise 2%, Stratus 1%.
Which is for right now why I'll stick with Stratus.

Offline CW2274

  • Forecaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 5394
    • Conditions @ CW2274 West Tucson-Painted Hills Ranch
Re: Opinions on WeatherFlow smart weather stations?
« Reply #149 on: June 20, 2020, 04:18:29 PM »
Rain accuracy specs (lower % is better):

Tempest: ±10%
Ecowitt WH40: ±5%
Davis VP2: ±4% (±5% when rate is +2in/hr)
Acurite Atlas: ±5%
You forgot a couple, one tipper, one static...Rainwise 2%, Stratus 1%.
Which is for right now why I'll stick with Stratus.
Which is why I have both, about 7" apart. [tup]