Author Topic: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option  (Read 4851 times)

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Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2018, 10:09:19 PM »
I found a 2.4VDC adapter lying around that fit into the ISS connector and no luck. Still bad data.

Needs 5 volts. 

Offline dendrite

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2018, 12:01:45 AM »
Just remembered I have the adapter from the console. I plugged it into the transmitter and I’m still getting bad data with the 5VDC.

Offline dendrite

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2018, 08:55:17 AM »
Let me get this straight. The order of power for the ISS...

1. solar panel...excess goes toward the supercap
2. supercap
3. 3V CR123 battery

Now if I use the 5VDC adapter will the ISS try running off of the solar and drain the supercap first? Is the supercap even being used once the external 5V is plugged in? Can the supercap be causing some kind of electrical interference? Maybe the supercap is simply just bad? I'm contemplating snipping the supercap right off and to force the ISS to only run on the external power and battery backup.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2018, 12:03:19 PM »
Let me get this straight. The order of power for the ISS...

1. solar panel...excess goes toward the supercap
2. supercap
3. 3V CR123 battery

Now if I use the 5VDC adapter will the ISS try running off of the solar and drain the supercap first? Is the supercap even being used once the external 5V is plugged in? Can the supercap be causing some kind of electrical interference? Maybe the supercap is simply just bad? I'm contemplating snipping the supercap right off and to force the ISS to only run on the external power and battery backup.
Answering your questions in order:
Yes, that's an approximately correct and approximately complete description of "order of power".
No.
Not if all the circuitry is working correctly.
No.
Perhaps.
That would be the next diagnostic thing to try.

However, given what you have done already, I suspect that the power circuitry (diodes) on the ISS board is not working correctly.  Or.....

I can't tell from this discussion exactly how the 12v anemometer power relates to the ISS power circuitry.  But I speculate that there's some cross-relationship.  It's even possible that connecting the new anemometer has "blown" something (perhaps a diode or perhaps the supercap) on the ISS board.

One way to test would be to disconnect the new anemometer and connect the Davis anemometer and see what happens (day, night, with 5v power, etc.).
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 12:14:42 PM by dalecoy »

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2018, 01:44:55 PM »
Thaughts/Questions

Is this the first one of these (heated, 12V power, non-solar) anemometers that has been produced?

I wonder, on the solar-powered ultrasonic anemometer, what voltage that solar panel is producing?  If it's low (same as the Davis solar panel), there wouldn't be as much chance of a problem than if it's high.

The Davis anemometer is essentially a "passive" device.  It has no voltage source of its own, and is just an on-off switch and a variable resistance.  Correctly simulating that with an "active" device (a powered ultrasonic anemometer) is not exactly simple. 

Offline dendrite

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2018, 02:26:33 PM »
Thaughts/Questions

Is this the first one of these (heated, 12V power, non-solar) anemometers that has been produced?

I wonder, on the solar-powered ultrasonic anemometer, what voltage that solar panel is producing?  If it's low (same as the Davis solar panel), there wouldn't be as much chance of a problem than if it's high.

The Davis anemometer is essentially a "passive" device.  It has no voltage source of its own, and is just an on-off switch and a variable resistance.  Correctly simulating that with an "active" device (a powered ultrasonic anemometer) is not exactly simple.
I believe this is the first one produced for the Davis. Hong Yuv originally tested this on a cabled VP2 and had no issues. Stefan has told me they are expecting a wireless VP2 to arrive in 5 days to test it on that.

It's running flawlessly again today with full solar power. I'll probably remove the supercap from my old transmitter and plug the sonic into that once the bad readings appear.

What's the output voltage spec of a Davis ISS solar panel? If my 5VDC adapter jack isn't working maybe I can snip off the solar panel and splice a (I assume) 3VDC power source to the solar panel wires?

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2018, 03:30:29 PM »
Thaughts/Questions

Is this the first one of these (heated, 12V power, non-solar) anemometers that has been produced?

I wonder, on the solar-powered ultrasonic anemometer, what voltage that solar panel is producing?  If it's low (same as the Davis solar panel), there wouldn't be as much chance of a problem than if it's high.

The Davis anemometer is essentially a "passive" device.  It has no voltage source of its own, and is just an on-off switch and a variable resistance.  Correctly simulating that with an "active" device (a powered ultrasonic anemometer) is not exactly simple.
I believe this is the first one produced for the Davis. Hong Yuv originally tested this on a cabled VP2 and had no issues. Stefan has told me they are expecting a wireless VP2 to arrive in 5 days to test it on that.

It's running flawlessly again today with full solar power. I'll probably remove the supercap from my old transmitter and plug the sonic into that once the bad readings appear.

What's the output voltage spec of a Davis ISS solar panel? If my 5VDC adapter jack isn't working maybe I can snip off the solar panel and splice a (I assume) 3VDC power source to the solar panel wires?

Your Davis solar panel is OBVIOUSLY fine. 

Quote
I believe this is the first one produced for the Davis. Hong Yuv originally tested this on a cabled VP2 and had no issues.

The power arrangement on a cabled VP2 is ** A LOT ** different.  [In addition to no solar panel, and no supercap and no battery...]

What's wrong with the idea of going back to the Davis anemometer for 24 hours?  That should clearly show where the problem is, without cutting the supercap or anything else.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 03:34:24 PM by dalecoy »

Offline dendrite

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2018, 04:16:06 PM »
I know the solar panel is fine, but it doesn’t do me a lot of good at night. I’m just looking for a power entry point that actually works. I’m not great at these electronics like some of you guys either so I’m limited onmy abilities. ;)

I’ll plug the Davis in if the sonic starts failing. The shadows are beginning to hit the solar panel now. I guess we’ll see if the sonic is frying something in these transmitters or if there’s another issue.

Thanks for the help.

Offline dendrite

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2018, 04:41:35 PM »
The sonic started its 10 minute frequency of bad readings after solar got low so I plugged the Davis anemometer in. It's been working fine for over 20 minutes.

I'll probably have to wait for HongYuv to receive their wireless VP2 and perform their own tests. They've been very helpful and eager to work out these kinks.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2018, 05:28:05 PM »
The sonic started its 10 minute frequency of bad readings after solar got low so I plugged the Davis anemometer in. It's been working fine for over 20 minutes.

The questions will be:
1.  Does the Davis anemometer continue to report correctly for a complete cycle through the night?; and then
2.  Does the Davis anemometer continue to report correctly with the 5V adapter plugged in, and the battery removed? (for a complete test, also cover up the solar panel and wait 12 hours to be sure the supercap is not involved).

I'd appreciate a report here.  If the above test(s) fail, it's possible that the ultrasonic anemometer damaged your ISS.  If the tests pass, then we could conclude that the ultrasonic anemometer is messing up the ISS, but not damaging it (yet).

Offline dendrite

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #60 on: October 19, 2018, 07:06:23 PM »
I thought that the ultrasonic was wired to the ISS?

Is it being powered by the ISS, or an external power supply?  Could this be an under-voltage from the ultrasonic drawing too much power from the ISS? Ground loop if one or more AC transformers are in use?????
Well I temporarily mounted the sonic up on my roof tripod (no 25ft mast yet) and it is almost 7PM EDT and it is functioning properly. I'm starting to think there was some sort of earth/ground loop issue while I had it mounted down on the ground at 5ft. I don't know enough about how these occur so maybe someone can explain to me what could have been causing it and why it's working now. All of the connections are the same as they had been before. I'll do some research myself too, but it's nice to at least see it running. Maybe moving the anemometer improved the earthing?

Also, does anyone know why the problem would go away during the day with the solar power kicking in?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 07:09:04 PM by dendrite »

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #61 on: October 19, 2018, 07:55:26 PM »
Well I temporarily mounted the sonic up on my roof tripod (no 25ft mast yet) and it is almost 7PM EDT and it is functioning properly. I'm starting to think there was some sort of earth/ground loop issue while I had it mounted down on the ground at 5ft. I don't know enough about how these occur so maybe someone can explain to me what could have been causing it and why it's working now. All of the connections are the same as they had been before. I'll do some research myself too, but it's nice to at least see it running. Maybe moving the anemometer improved the earthing?

Also, does anyone know why the problem would go away during the day with the solar power kicking in?

You have not supplied enough information for anybody to reasonably speculate on any of those questions.

And, of course, the manufacturer hasn't supplied that sort of information, either.

However - if it's POSSIBLE for earthing/grounding to cause this set of symptoms, then there is some DESIGN DEFECT in the anemometer.  It might be a very small design defect - but it would be important.

You can ask your manufacturer contact the same questions, of course.

Offline Stefan

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2018, 04:37:58 AM »
Let me get this straight. The order of power for the ISS...

1. solar panel...excess goes toward the supercap
2. supercap
3. 3V CR123 battery

Now if I use the 5VDC adapter will the ISS try running off of the solar and drain the supercap first? Is the supercap even being used once the external 5V is plugged in? Can the supercap be causing some kind of electrical interference? Maybe the supercap is simply just bad? I'm contemplating snipping the supercap right off and to force the ISS to only run on the external power and battery backup.
Answering your questions in order:
Yes, that's an approximately correct and approximately complete description of "order of power".
No.
Not if all the circuitry is working correctly.
No.
Perhaps.
That would be the next diagnostic thing to try.

However, given what you have done already, I suspect that the power circuitry (diodes) on the ISS board is not working correctly.  Or.....

I can't tell from this discussion exactly how the 12v anemometer power relates to the ISS power circuitry.  But I speculate that there's some cross-relationship.  It's even possible that connecting the new anemometer has "blown" something (perhaps a diode or perhaps the supercap) on the ISS board.

One way to test would be to disconnect the new anemometer and connect the Davis anemometer and see what happens (day, night, with 5v power, etc.).
Dear All,
This is Stefan from HONGYUV, I upload principle of Davis anemometer and wind vane for your info.
Anemometer: a passive switch signal source powered by ISS(3V)
Wind vane: a digital potentiometer source output 0-3VDC correspond to 0-359°
There is no way that our ultrasonic anemometer will damage ISS.
We've got our wireless VP2 and we are now trying to recur same malfunction, but temporarily without any result yet.
Theorectically speaking, considering Davis anemometer and wind vane is commonly used, there should be no difference between cabled and wireless VP2 concerning data collection on them.
I also uploaded a spray testing video on our WDS series products, from which we can eliminate potential suspect on its water-proof performance.
In this testing, no malfunction was found.
I didn't check this forum out frequently but I surely will post new test result here later.



Offline Stefan

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2018, 04:41:05 AM »
sorry, I failed to upload video here, it's not allowed.
please download it at cloud disk at: https://www31.zippyshare.com/v/2O3MAWRh/file.html

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2018, 02:08:14 PM »
Dear All,
This is Stefan from HONGYUV, I upload principle of Davis anemometer and wind vane for your info.
Anemometer: a passive switch signal source powered by ISS(3V)
Wind vane: a digital potentiometer source output 0-3VDC correspond to 0-359°

Perhaps a language problem - that's not exactly a correct description.  But OK.

Quote
There is no way that our ultrasonic anemometer will damage ISS.

Easy to say.  Perhaps correct.  Note that the anemometer has a separate power supply of 12 volts, with separate grounding, etc., and needs to supply a PASSIVE switch signal source (passively referenced to the ISS power), and "a digital potentiometer source output 0-3VDC" actively referenced to the ISS power and ground.  That's not simple.

Quote
We've got our wireless VP2 and we are now trying to recur same malfunction, but temporarily without any result yet.

Quote
Theorectically speaking, considering Davis anemometer and wind vane is commonly used, there should be no difference between cabled and wireless VP2 concerning data collection on them.

...other than the fact that, in the cabled system, power is supplied to the ISS from the console power (via 2 wires in the cable, the other 2 being the RS-422 differential signaling from the ISS to the console) - while in the wireless system, the power is supplied by the ISS itself, and there's no cable down to the console. But in this case, a cable to the ultrasonic anemometer which has it's own separate power source and ground, with its own cable.

I'm not saying there's a design problem - just that it's easy to claim there is not.  [But dendrite did have a problem, with one of the mounting configurations]

There are lots of variables here.  Separate-or-connected grounding would be one of them.

Offline Stefan

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2018, 09:38:17 PM »
Dear All,
This is Stefan from HONGYUV, I upload principle of Davis anemometer and wind vane for your info.
Anemometer: a passive switch signal source powered by ISS(3V)
Wind vane: a digital potentiometer source output 0-3VDC correspond to 0-359°

Perhaps a language problem - that's not exactly a correct description.  But OK.

Quote
There is no way that our ultrasonic anemometer will damage ISS.

Easy to say.  Perhaps correct.  Note that the anemometer has a separate power supply of 12 volts, with separate grounding, etc., and needs to supply a PASSIVE switch signal source (passively referenced to the ISS power), and "a digital potentiometer source output 0-3VDC" actively referenced to the ISS power and ground.  That's not simple.

Quote
We've got our wireless VP2 and we are now trying to recur same malfunction, but temporarily without any result yet.

Quote
Theorectically speaking, considering Davis anemometer and wind vane is commonly used, there should be no difference between cabled and wireless VP2 concerning data collection on them.

...other than the fact that, in the cabled system, power is supplied to the ISS from the console power (via 2 wires in the cable, the other 2 being the RS-422 differential signaling from the ISS to the console) - while in the wireless system, the power is supplied by the ISS itself, and there's no cable down to the console. But in this case, a cable to the ultrasonic anemometer which has it's own separate power source and ground, with its own cable.

I'm not saying there's a design problem - just that it's easy to claim there is not.  [But dendrite did have a problem, with one of the mounting configurations]

There are lots of variables here.  Separate-or-connected grounding would be one of them.
The different ways of power supplying for cabled/wireless ISS doesn't affect its data collection on wind data.
It's internal circuit board designment only decides when/where should it get power from.
To the best of my knowledge, the priority of power supplied in orders:
1.solar power
2.supercap
3.3V battery
We've got a brand new wireless VP2 on running to find out the reason.
If no faulty were found, we will send dendrite a new ultrasonic anemometer for replacement and then have recalled one tested again on our wireless VP2. 

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2018, 11:54:04 PM »
The different ways of power supplying for cabled/wireless ISS doesn't affect its data collection on wind data.

True, provided that the wind data consists of:
Dry (passive) contact closure for wind velocity; and
Dry (passive) simulation of a variable resistance for wind direction.

The original description of wind speed was "a passive switch signal source" - but the word "source" is confusing.

I note that the description of the wind direction was "source output 0-3VDC" - which is not the same as a variable resistance.  Of course, perhaps there is a language translation difficulty.

Again, I'm not saying there's a problem.  And I don't know what circuitry is in the ultrasonic anemometer to provide a contact closure and a variable resistance.  I just understand that it's not exactly easy to do that in an actively-powered instrument, under all conditions of grounding and power supply sources.

Offline Stefan

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2018, 02:13:01 AM »
The different ways of power supplying for cabled/wireless ISS doesn't affect its data collection on wind data.

True, provided that the wind data consists of:
Dry (passive) contact closure for wind velocity; and
Dry (passive) simulation of a variable resistance for wind direction.

The original description of wind speed was "a passive switch signal source" - but the word "source" is confusing.

I note that the description of the wind direction was "source output 0-3VDC" - which is not the same as a variable resistance.  Of course, perhaps there is a language translation difficulty.

Again, I'm not saying there's a problem.  And I don't know what circuitry is in the ultrasonic anemometer to provide a contact closure and a variable resistance.  I just understand that it's not exactly easy to do that in an actively-powered instrument, under all conditions of grounding and power supply sources.
You're right Dalecoy.
Sorry for my improper expression.
Let me say it in another word.
Wind speed output in a way of passive(dry) swtich signal (power supplied by ISS)
Wind direction output in a way of 0~3VDC voltage signal(you can also call it variable resistance.)
If you have meter to measure wire of wind direction output, you can easily prove that I am telling you truth.
I am, not a hardware engineer, trying to explain you those to explain why our anemometer won't be harmful to ISS.

Offline Stefan

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2018, 03:23:26 AM »
Attached is the wireless VP2 we are testing now.
The WDS2DVSE is powered by our solar panel.
We definitely will fix dendrite's problem ASAP.

Offline dendrite

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2018, 05:40:40 AM »
If you really want to simulate my setup shouldn’t you be testing it with a 12V AC adapter? How much voltage does the solar panel provide again?

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2018, 10:10:14 AM »
If you really want to simulate my setup shouldn’t you be testing it with a 12V AC adapter? How much voltage does the solar panel provide again?

Yes, they should be testing with the 12V AC adapter.

Quote
"Wind direction output in a way of 0~3VDC voltage signal(you can also call it variable resistance.)"

No, I can't call a 0~3VDC voltage (which implies a neutral/ground reference), a variable resistance (which has no neutral/ground reference until connected).

Quote
If you have meter to measure wire of wind direction output, you can easily prove that I am telling you truth.

I would use an ohmmeter to measure resistance.  Is that correct?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 10:23:55 AM by dalecoy »

Offline Stefan

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #71 on: October 25, 2018, 04:19:21 AM »
Of course, yesterday we were testing solar powered version, they are waiting to be shipped out.
We test 12VDC powered WDS2DVSE from today.

Offline dalecoy

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #72 on: October 25, 2018, 10:14:03 AM »
Wind direction output in a way of 0~3VDC voltage signal(you can also call it variable resistance.)
If you have meter to measure wire of wind direction output, you can easily prove that I am telling you truth.

Would I use an ohmmeter to measure the direction output?  [That's what I would use to measure direction on the Davis anemometer]


Offline dendrite

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2018, 10:56:35 PM »
Of course, yesterday we were testing solar powered version, they are waiting to be shipped out.
We test 12VDC powered WDS2DVSE from today.
How has the testing gone? any issues with the 12V adapter with the wireless VP2?

Offline mcrossley

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Re: Another VP2 ultrasonic anemometer option
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2018, 04:48:44 AM »
Wind direction output in a way of 0~3VDC voltage signal(you can also call it variable resistance.)
If you have meter to measure wire of wind direction output, you can easily prove that I am telling you truth.

Would I use an ohmmeter to measure the direction output?  [That's what I would use to measure direction on the Davis anemometer]

O-3V realtive to what? I'm no electronics expert, but shouldn't it be using some sort of common rail so that the output voltage is some fraction of the input reference voltage relative to the input ground?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 04:50:17 AM by mcrossley »
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