Author Topic: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?  (Read 2521 times)

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Offline ValentineWeather

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Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« on: December 29, 2017, 05:42:43 PM »
I noticed this year the KVTN ASOS back in March spiked up couple degrees. I've tested against Davis SHT31 half dozen or more times with a portable at airport and even using my NIST certified at night and there seems to be a +1.6 bias. I don't do any comparisons unless we have at least 10-15 mph sustained wind making sure air is mixed and no hot or cold pockets.
 
 
Prior to this year differential was never over .5 (1/2F) from airport with MADIS confirming, but I've seen as much as 2 this year since March. The reason I know I watched it like a hawk.

Some may remember on this forum Ive even bragged how close to airport 1 tenth (.1) or even 0 differential my instruments were until this summer the airport was noticeably warmer.

I started looking around at the North Platte ASOS and it also appears to be running above other Davis stations CWOP inside town.

I sent a letter to the ASOS link on Gladstone page explaining my findings but never received any correspondence back.
 
I guess the more serious question is if I'm right and I don't think my instruments are wrong why has this happened? What is NOAA & NWS up too?

I'll post todays snapshot of 2 different ASOS stations NP and Valentine with wind well mixed along with the event where the KVTN station issue started according to MADIS.




 



« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 06:12:41 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 06:08:30 PM »
After I sent the email explaining my concerns about the ASOS and evidence gathered according to MADIS the MADIS DATA went down on Gladstone and is still down. I wanted to pull more data looking at the NP ASOS also and see if it spiked up around same time period as KVTN.
Maybe just a coincidence and all my thermometers are wrong.
Randy

Offline CW2274

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 06:18:15 PM »

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 06:22:56 PM »
What is NOAA & NWS up too?
:twisted:

I do wonder after some of the events lately being uncovered....But I'm actually looking for a plausible reason this has happened. Maybe I'll send another email.
2 degrees may not seem like much but in the big scope of things it is. 
Randy

Offline CW2274

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2017, 06:24:56 PM »
Actually my guess is older sensors that still fall within spec. You, me, and others here undoubtedly pay daily attention to our obs, whereas ASOS's are only checked within a period no more than 6 months unless an obvious problem exists.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 06:33:34 PM »
Actually my guess is older sensors that still fall within spec. You, me, and others here undoubtedly pay daily attention to our obs, whereas ASOS's are only checked within a period no more than 6 months unless an obvious problem exists.

i see, well us damn weather nerds are just trouble.... :grin:
Randy

Offline CW2274

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2017, 06:40:21 PM »
Actually my guess is older sensors that still fall within spec. You, me, and others here undoubtedly pay daily attention to our obs, whereas ASOS's are only checked within a period no more than 6 months unless an obvious problem exists.

i see, well us damn weather nerds are just trouble.... :grin:
:-"

Offline DoctorKnow

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2017, 07:34:44 PM »
Some of the NOAA sites around me are at times moving up too a degree or two. The RAWS stations are also high by 3 or so F, in areas I would expect them to be cooler, in forests.


Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2017, 07:51:35 PM »
Some of the NOAA sites around me are at times moving up too a degree or two. The RAWS stations are also high by 3 or so F, in areas I would expect them to be cooler, in forests.

Thanks for input. I haven't noticed closest airport AWOS, not ASOS running high but good to know.

The Mesonet stations run almost identical to the Davis stations while ASOS is +2. Current shot of Mesonet around area and these are professional stations.  https://mesonet.unl.edu/stations/

Airport is currently 5 where X is

« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 07:59:11 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline CW2274

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2017, 09:04:03 PM »
I think this is pretty much ado about nothing. Don't forget ASOS's (at least "official" ones) use an averaging algorithm. Since benign conditions occur here as a norm, I watch me get warmer than the ASOS's around me in the morning hours (dew follows, whichever direction), mid day neck and neck, then I cool faster as the sun fades. I see this everyday. Not only, I've become more aware of how micro-climates affect readings, especially the dew (a simple, brief wind shift for instance), as I found water vapor in the air is more "transportable" than the temp, at least in my experience here.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 09:20:45 PM »
Very true micro climates are real, maybe not with 15 mph wind though.
Remember I personally visited ASOS multiple times with aspirated SHT31. It's reading high vs my instruments I can assure anyone reading thread. Now whether its because of the 5 min averaging algorithm or just calibration issue is the question. If ASOS averages 50 but the Davis never goes above 48 there is an issue somewhere.

Reason I can easily check ASOS, its not fenced and only 1 mile away. Takes less than 10 minutes from house.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 09:24:55 PM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline Mattk

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 09:40:11 PM »
Lots of "official" averaging is not by the requirements/standards anyway as the "intent" is to push things up an if one fiddles the top up as well as the bottom end then it's easy to make things go up even further. And oh yeah it has a lot to do about certain things :) 

Offline CW2274

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 10:01:22 PM »
Very true micro climates are real, maybe not with 15 mph wind though.
Remember I personally visited ASOS multiple times with aspirated SHT31. It's reading high vs my instruments I can assure anyone reading thread. Now whether its because of the 5 min averaging algorithm or just calibration issue is the question. If ASOS averages 50 but the Davis never goes above 48 there is an issue somewhere.

Reason I can easily check ASOS, its not fenced and only 1 mile away. Takes less than 10 minutes from house.
Then I refer back to reply 4. ;)

Offline ocala

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 07:27:04 AM »
Maybe the sensor is just old?
Anyways I found this on the ASOS Page.
How accurate is ASOS?
The ASOS sensors contain state-of-the-art technology and
the associated software provides data quality checks to
guarantee accuracy. Each sensor has different accuracy
ratings. For the primary sensors used for climate,
temperature can measure from -80F to +130F with an
accuracy of less than 2F. The rain gauge is accurate to
0.01 inches

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2017, 09:09:29 AM »
Yuk  2F its back within 2 range now.
These are the Mesonet stations 2 SHT31's and airport.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 09:28:14 AM by ValentineWeather »
Randy

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2017, 01:47:23 PM »
average the whole month out and the whole USA, its been warmer than normal, despite the recent cold snap in the NE and now central north
http://models.weatherbell.com/climate/ncep_cfsr_t2m_anom.png

Offline CW2274

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2017, 01:52:20 PM »
Yuk  2F
Yeah, nothing to right home about. Being usable to -80F probably doesn't help.

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2017, 01:59:38 PM »
what seems to be happening, re the cold snaps, is that cold air is moving away from the arctic a lot more than used to be, in deep diving jet streams that get stuck in one place
while the arctic itself is still much warmer than normal (currently sea ice extent is at record lows..and the rate of generation is very slow)

Offline CW2274

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2017, 02:10:56 PM »
82F yesterday, bout the same today, the warmest year on record here is going out in record shattering style, buy a HUGE margin.

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2017, 02:32:03 PM »
82F yesterday, bout the same today, the warmest year on record here is going out in record shattering style, buy a HUGE margin.

If you go here: https://wrcc.dri.edu/cgi-bin/cliMAIN.pl?az8820 and click on highlighted average you can look at every month/year going back to the beginning.
Love this site..

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Randy

Offline CW2274

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2017, 02:41:32 PM »
Thanks for the link. This is what I've been using. https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/twc/climate/monthly/2017.php

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2017, 02:57:45 PM »
Thanks for the link. This is what I've been using. https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/twc/climate/monthly/2017.php

I can tell you're more trustworthy than me.  :-)

I like to look at the numbers myself after finding several times fabrications and manipulated data to fit the narrative.

I trust myself provided the data itself is not corrupt. 
Randy

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2017, 03:02:04 PM »
I've called the Midwestern Regional Climate Center out several times after publishing BS maps of above normal temperatures which were out right lies.
Randy

Offline ValentineWeather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2017, 03:21:59 PM »
What the Midwestern Regional Climate Center was doing, they would publish these pretty all red maps showing above normal temperatures for the month across the whole region.
So I would go and pull the raw data because I knew it wasn't true from stations in my area of region, some came in normal or even under and send it to them asking how they can publish such BS.
I've yet to receive an answer from the jerks.
Randy

Offline waiukuweather

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Re: Are they moving the ASOS temperature up?
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2017, 04:10:11 PM »
you should not be calling people jerks

what is with people on this forum?

 

anything